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You can spout off all you want, but the value projections are based on his value-add and 74 points in 75 games and being +19 at 5v5 grants him a lot of leeway. At the end of the day, Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander were +3 against Florida at 5v5. The line struggled with Holmberg on the wing instead of Patches because it was like playing short-handed. Florida isn’t a team you go up against and handicap one of your top-2 lines.
Tavares is a career loser. He’s at 35 and he’s never won a damn thing in the NHL. The Leafs gave him the 2nd highest salary in the NHL, the captaincy and 7 years in his prime, with multiple young, offensive weapons. What did he do? He did fucking nothing. If this team truly wants to “change the DNA” of this team, Tavares is priority #1 to be removed from the team. Great human being but his time should be over.
If Pacioretty playing with Tavares and Nylander was the difference maker, why did Berube refuse to keep them together? Is he really that stupid? Tavares was offensively garbage against Florida. Put aside the defense for a moment but he did abso-fucking-lutely nothing offensively in 6 out of 7 games. That’s not value when his only benefit is his ability to score, especially on the PP. In the one game he did score goals, he also played terrible defensively and allowed the Panthers to come back.
Nylander did indeed disappear but we all know what he is so bringing back another defensive liability in Tavares and having two of the same is a dumbass idea. Wing or center, it won’t matter, Tavares will be like Duchene was for Dallas and ultimately a loser. I’d trade Nylander and keep Marner in a heartbeat but the Leafs are always better off keeping the guys under 30 and getting rid of the guys at 35+.
I do think the Leafs future lies in getting a #2 centre with grit and moxy and that could push JT to the wing because at 35, he’s just not going to be the long-term centre.
Agreed. Jenner and McBain should both be brought in to solve the short and long term problem at 2C and 3C. But if the goal is to move Tavares to the wing, they’d still be better off with Rielly Smith who is actually a reliable two-way winger, with better playoff results and an actual winner. Tavares is already useless, he’ll be total trash by time his deal is over if they give him a Tanev contract to bring his cap hit down.
In terms of the performance against Florida – he wasn’t good, but neither was Nylander. Objectively, despite getting some nice bounces, Pacioretty was slow and didn’t offer a ton defensively either – but it was a far sight better than Holmberg! But $5m isn’t expected to carry a line. You can be mad at Tavares because his $11m contract was never realized for the value it cost and what it may have cost the team. I’m certainly not going to hold it against him that his next contract may take some of that into financial consideration.
He didn’t provide value in his prime, he’s a fundamentally flawed player that doesn’t fit this team’s goal of beating Florida. Being a cheaper liability still makes him a liability. He’s not worth it even at the discount. He’s the wrong player with the wrong set of skills at the wrong age.
Hence the average frustration with Marner – no matter what you think of him. His value to the team was exceptional, no doubt – but it likely never crossed the $9.5m threshold on average and his play in the playoffs was all too often eclipsed by the expectations placed on him due to his exaggerated contract. When the contract was coming up, there was never any consideration from him that he could give back some of what he’d taken to the town he supposed loves so much – but rather his expectation was to seek a contract large enough to continue to cripple the organization’s flexibility. Who cares if you win as long as you get your cut of the pie? Now much of that is conjecture mixed with hyperbole but there’s enough truth in there as well that I understand why people are hoping the door hits him on the way out.
The reality is the market of Toronto burdens players like Marner with ridiculous taxes. He’d take the same amount home making 12 in Vegas as he would making 16.5 in Toronto. Framing that as greed is ignorant which makes sense why the average idiot buys that narrative. Do the math and you’ll see that even at 14, he’d be taking a discount compared to what he could make other places at 11 or 12.
Marner has more career playoff points than Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. Which games those points come in is what everybody is bitching about. And yet, Knies, Marner and Matthews were responsible for 1 GWG each against Florida. Marner was defensively sound in keeping Florida’s top line in check. He’s in his prime. He’s a 100 point, two-way winger. The media is squawking they can’t afford to keep him but the reality is they can’t afford to lose him for nothing. You won’t be able to replace him with better players at a lower cost and expect to beat Florida.
Prior to the cap no one in Toronto ever had to care if a player was overpaid. It was never a problem. But now it carries consequences.
Trade Rielly, tell Tavares to fuck off. There are other ways to save cap space. Just because some fans are too stupid to see it doesn’t mean management has to either. Hyman, Kadri, now Marner. Leafs always fuck it up.
Tavares is Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year.
not to many C out there in this year UFA class. I would like the Leafs to resign him. Maybe to a 6 year contract. You know, Matthew, Nylander and all also disappeared. RIGHT!!!!
When the going get tough, Marner games disappears with Waldo. I like Marner and I hope he re-sign the same contract as Matthews did.
If Marner takes to long to decide, he may not like the remaining offers on the table as the other offers have moved on.Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
Those are your facts not mine, I think Tavares had a good year. His playoffs were ok, not spectacular but ok. I get your hate for him, Aki Berg was mine from the get go.
Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year. Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
You can spout off all you want, but the value projections are based on his value-add and 74 points in 75 games and being +19 at 5v5 grants him a lot of leeway. At the end of the day, Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander were +3 against Florida at 5v5. The line struggled with Holmberg on the wing instead of Patches because it was like playing short-handed. Florida isn’t a team you go up against and handicap one of your top-2 lines.
I do think the Leafs future lies in getting a #2 centre with grit and moxy and that could push JT to the wing because at 35, he’s just not going to be the long-term centre.
In terms of the performance against Florida – he wasn’t good, but neither was Nylander. Objectively, despite getting some nice bounces, Pacioretty was slow and didn’t offer a ton defensively either – but it was a far sight better than Holmberg! But $5m isn’t expected to carry a line. You can be mad at Tavares because his $11m contract was never realized for the value it cost and what it may have cost the team. I’m certainly not going to hold it against him that his next contract may take some of that into financial consideration.
Hence the average frustration with Marner – no matter what you think of him. His value to the team was exceptional, no doubt – but it likely never crossed the $9.5m threshold on average and his play in the playoffs was all too often eclipsed by the expectations placed on him due to his exaggerated contract. When the contract was coming up, there was never any consideration from him that he could give back some of what he’d taken to the town he supposed loves so much – but rather his expectation was to seek a contract large enough to continue to cripple the organization’s flexibility. Who cares if you win as long as you get your cut of the pie? Now much of that is conjecture mixed with hyperbole but there’s enough truth in there as well that I understand why people are hoping the door hits him on the way out.
Prior to the cap no one in Toronto ever had to care if a player was overpaid. It was never a problem. But now it carries consequences.
I would not pay Tavares 7.7, although, being a PPG player, he could still EASILY get that elsewhere.
My feeling is he signs for 3 years at 5.5m. This is a value contract, and a massive home town discount. I think every single Leafs fan -1 would be absolutely pumped for such a signing, and consider it a steal. Why? Because it’s a steal.
Makes sense why it’s such garbage now.
you are such an insufferable person. nobody can have a decent conversation with you. every reply from you is dripping with arrogance and negativity.
what a miserable person you must be to be around.jfc
the numbers are from
https://http://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6420056/2025/06/17/nhl-free-agency-wingers/?source=user_shared_articleMakes sense why it’s such garbage now.
Just value projections. not what they will get, some will get overpaid. some wont..
Terrible projections.
Tavares is worth 5 no problem, the difference between him and Marner is that one will cost 14 and provide 13 mil value and one will cost 5.5 and provide 8 mil value
Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year. Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
Nobody is running Marner out of town, hes a big boy, he can make his own decisions.he is running his own ass out of town
The media and idiots fans are definitely running him out of town, making him the scapegoat for the failures of management.
Marner wont make a difference to this team winning. time to get over it and move on
Enjoy watching Marner win a Cup somewhere else as the Leafs continue to throw away great players for nothing. Just like Kadri and Hyman, Marner will make the Leafs management and the morons who support their decisions pay for their stupidity.
41 year old Brent Burns is not a solution anymore. If you look at almost all underlying numbers on Carolina, he was being propped up by the forwards’ aggressive forecheck and by Slavin as a partner for 95% of his minutes. This year his giveaway totals doubled / 60 compared to previous years and his takeaway numbers shrunk. If you want to be good at defense, Brent Burns is not going to provide any modicum of a solution any more.
While I recognize that Florida could insulate him with a similarly heavy forecheck, I don’t think Zito wants guys he’s insulating. He wants guys who can contribute in the right system with the right style around them. Burns being a giveaway machine in his waning years is definitely not going to help with that. They’d be better off trying Klingberg. This is not a shot at who Brent Burns was – who was an exceptional top pair defenseman. It’s a commentary on his age and his reflective play this year.
Last year he had only 56 giveaways and Orlov had 36. This year, he had 104 and Orlov had 98. I think that has more to do with a change in team style or whomever is recording the stats is doing something very different. But I mostly agree that Burns playing almost 21 min night as a top pair D is no longer feasible. That’s way too much for him at this point in his career.
But he could play 16-18 minutes and provide value in Florida or in Toronto if used in the right situations, like the PP. The Panthers already replaced Ekblad with Jones. At this point, they’re looking for somebody to be on the 2nd/3rd pair. They’ve taken guys who looked “finished” like Montour and Schmidt before and turned them completely around. I’d take Burns on the 3rd pair on the PP on 1 year deal if he’s cheap.
the numbers are from
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6420056/2025/06/17/nhl-free-agency-wingers/?source=user_shared_articleJust value projections. not what they will get, some will get overpaid. some wont..
Tavares is worth 5 no problem, the difference between him and Marner is that one will cost 14 and provide 13 mil value and one will cost 5.5 and provide 8 mil value
Nobody is running Marner out of town, hes a big boy, he can make his own decisions.he is running his own ass out of town
Marner wont make a difference to this team winning. time to get over it and move on
here are some of Doms contract projections, or value.
Tavares 7.9
Bennett 6.6
Marchand 5.1
Pkane 3.5
Tanev 2.2 (his projections look terrible)
Toews 1.9
Donato 4.2getting JT for 5 or 5.5 would be a no brainer imo.
but you could fit Marchand, Kane, Tanev and Toews for less than Marner
if those numbers were realisticWhat is your source for this because they are hilariously low.
Tavares is not worth a penny more than 2 million to the Leafs. All the idiots running Marner out of town bitch about his “playoff disappearance” yet never address the issue that Tavares was offensively useless in 6 of 7 games against Florida and a constantly defensive liability in all 7 games.
Bennett is leading the playoffs in goals. There’s no chance he gets a dime less than 9 from an outside team. He’d probably take 7 or 8 in Florida because it’s a good situation.
Marchand, same as Bennett, is playing out of his mind in the Final. He’s old but a team out there looking to make a playoff run is going to throw a lot more than 5.1. No chance he joins a garbage situation like the Leafs for that price.
Patrick Kane is physically broken. He’s never healthy anymore. And he hasn’t had a good playoff run in 10 years. He’s offensively equipped to replace 60% of Marner’s offense. That price works.
Toews is going to Winnipeg and is a huge question mark after so much time away. He should be playing for the same as Pacioretty which is basically league minimum.
Tanev is overrated. Whatever he’s worth is meaningless to the Leafs. He’s only useful if he takes way less to play for his brother. Otherwise, we end up with another Kampf or Jarnkrok where the Leafs are paying way too much for a bottom-six plug.
Donato is a giant mistake waiting to happen to some stupid team. Hope it’s not the Leafs.
Nobody is going to be able to replace Marner via discounted spare parts. This team is fucked.
I agree, I’d dump Ekblad if I were Florida and forced to do so but he could come cheaper than expected. His offensive stats were pretty bad, his positive drug test my scare off some teams and his history of concussions aren’t to be forgotten either. His best days may be behind him but he may settle to take a discount to stay in a good situation on a long term deal that keeps his cap hit low.
Then again, you could sign a guy like Burns to replace him for a fraction of the price and risk, which is what I’d hope the Leafs do to solve their missing RHD problem in the short term.
Because of the tax rate in Florida, the weather, why would any of them want to leave a guaranteed winner with a window wide open to win again? Just the same way some other players took discounts already and Tampa Bay players took discounts, it’s likely these guys see a good thing and will keep it together.
They could also move guys like Rodrigues to make space for the more important pieces which would give them 22 AAV instead of 19.
Also, remember, now that Florida is a proven winner, there will be many players happy to take less to sign there to fill those “reclamation” slots like Schmidt took up so filling up the lower end of the roster could be really cheap and easy.
~Unholy_Goalie41 year old Brent Burns is not a solution anymore. If you look at almost all underlying numbers on Carolina, he was being propped up by the forwards’ aggressive forecheck and by Slavin as a partner for 95% of his minutes. This year his giveaway totals doubled / 60 compared to previous years and his takeaway numbers shrunk. If you want to be good at defense, Brent Burns is not going to provide any modicum of a solution any more.
While I recognize that Florida could insulate him with a similarly heavy forecheck, I don’t think Zito wants guys he’s insulating. He wants guys who can contribute in the right system with the right style around them. Burns being a giveaway machine in his waning years is definitely not going to help with that. They’d be better off trying Klingberg. This is not a shot at who Brent Burns was – who was an exceptional top pair defenseman. It’s a commentary on his age and his reflective play this year.
