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Islanders rumored to have permission to talk to Shanahan. I guess they saw a decade of failure and thought, “we need some of that here.”
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
God I hope Shanny goes to the Islanders – would be a nice start to the changes that need to happen in TO.
For starters I was talking about this years playoffs – a fact you just blasted by while moving your goalposts again but not surprising because it didn’t fit your narrative.
This years playoffs? You mean the one where Nylander disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7 against the Panthers? Oh right, you want to be a little bitch about “moving goal posts” but will happily do it for Nylander because it fits YOUR narrative. Accusing others of what you do yourself. Big surprise here.
You also know I’m sure that Marner has a whopping 5 more playoff points than Nylander and has played 3 more career playoff games right? Now your talking about most playoff assists vs points and using that to say what that Marner is more valuable because he has 60 playoff assists? Nylander is 12th in all time playoff assists by the Leafs and tied for 5th (with Matthews) behind Clark, Sundin, Keon, Kennedy and Armstrong. What does any of this prove other than the fact both Marner and Nylander have had great careers as Leafs?
How many goals against has Nylander been on the ice in his playoff career? I’m going to guess a lot (57 EVGA, most since 2015/2016 among Leafs)
There isn’t much use in scoring if you’re giving up as many as you score.
What the biggest issue for many is with Marner is were in a series he gets his points it’s no secret it’s not games 5-7.
Nylander did not have a GWG or a single point in Game 5, 6 or 7. Marner showed up, Nylander didn’t.
Which one of those 2 wingers is going to be paid 11M next year and which one is going to want 13M or more? The Leafs can’t afford to keep both unless they are playing video games and in GM mode and paying 3.5M players 900 K.
Marner is the better player. Better off keeping both but if it was one or the other, Marner wins every time. He’s a complete player.
Maybe you should wake the fuck up and follow the conversation.
Maybe you should take a step back and fuck your own face.
Islanders rumored to have permission to talk to Shanahan. I guess they saw a decade of failure and thought, “we need some of that here.”
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Also, Kraken granted permission from Leafs to speak with Lambert. Can they take Savard instead?
Leafs trade Shanahan for the rights to Lou.
Full circle.
This is absolutely laughable you sound like AA now, again I ask who is the Marner of Florida? The soft skilled winger who shrinks in games 5-7 and will be paid like a top 3 or 4 player in the league?
Nylander disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7 this year. Keep repeating it because you’re dense. Reinhart and Marner were basically even but you’re too blind to see it.
The Leafs can afford to lose some of the offense that Marner brings (in the regular season and early games in playoff series) if they can get a more balanced roster with more grit and grind in them – Marner (nor Willy) is that player and neither ever will be.
More career points and playoff points than Nylander.
Asset management?
11M for a pure goal scoring winger who you can try to develop into a better defensive player and outside of this year is a clutch playoff performer who is locked in at 11M for 8 years is a far greater asset than a UFA winger who wants 13 M + and again has year over year not been able to deliver come late series games. Do you actually think Marner can overcome his faults as a Leaf if he got signed to an even bigger salary than he has just got? What progress has he shown to make you think that’s possible?
Nylander absolutely sucks defensively. If that hasn’t changed by now, it never will. He disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7. Maybe it will sink in soon…probably not though…
Let’s not skip past Marner screaming at his bench to wake the fuck up with his dry hair while having a terrible game 5 and 7 himself – great leadership.
Oh, his hair was dry…oh no…what a sin. Nylander never has dry hair…
You’ve gone full retard by the way.
A couple of you are busy fighting about this, but this is the data behind it since the real core group started together with the Leafs in 2016.
Using 5v5 stats only in the playoffs –
Morgan Rielly is +14 (60F / 46A)
Mitch Marner is +13 (46F / 33A)
Auston Matthews is +8 (47F / 39A)
William Nylander is +1 (43F / 42A)
John Tavares is -8 (25F / 33A)In terms of G/60:
Marner: 2.54 F / 1.82 A
Rielly: 2.66 F / 1.99 A
Matthews: 2.52 F / 2.09 A
Nylander: 2.63 F / 2.57 A
Tavares: 2.01 F / 2.65 AIf you’re really getting into yet another Marner vs. Nylander argument – last year and 2019 were the only two playoff years that Nylander outperformed Marner in terms of his offensive output outweighing defensive liabilities.
But this really shouldn’t be about one vs the other. We know what they all bring to the table and we know what their liabilities are. Nylander will provide game breaking moments and Marner will provide more and sincerely better versatility.
The fact that in these playoffs Marner took elbows to the head, shots after the whistle and Nylander often just skated away and rarely to be seen in any of this answers the question as to whether Marner will deal with it.
But if Marner’s salary demands are in excess of $12m, the answer has to be no. If they sit in the same range as Nylander’s $11.5, you should try to figure out how to do it. Of course this also should note that if I were Mitch Marner and the entirety of Leaf Nation was booing me out of town, I’d go and make sure my new team beat the shit out of them when we played.
A couple of you are busy fighting about this, but this is the data behind it since the real core group started together with the Leafs in 2016.
Using 5v5 stats only in the playoffs –
Morgan Rielly is +14 (60F / 46A)
Mitch Marner is +13 (46F / 33A)
Auston Matthews is +8 (47F / 39A)
William Nylander is +1 (43F / 42A)
John Tavares is -8 (25F / 33A)In terms of G/60:
Marner: 2.54 F / 1.82 A
Rielly: 2.66 F / 1.99 A
Matthews: 2.52 F / 2.09 A
Nylander: 2.63 F / 2.57 A
Tavares: 2.01 F / 2.65 AIf you’re really getting into yet another Marner vs. Nylander argument – last year and 2019 were the only two playoff years that Nylander outperformed Marner in terms of his offensive output outweighing defensive liabilities.
But this really shouldn’t be about one vs the other. We know what they all bring to the table and we know what their liabilities are. Nylander will provide game breaking moments and Marner will provide more and sincerely better versatility.
The fact that in these playoffs Marner took elbows to the head, shots after the whistle and Nylander often just skated away and rarely to be seen in any of this answers the question as to whether Marner will deal with it.
But if Marner’s salary demands are in excess of $12m, the answer has to be no. If they sit in the same range as Nylander’s $11.5, you should try to figure out how to do it. Of course this also should note that if I were Mitch Marner and the entirety of Leaf Nation was booing me out of town, I’d go and make sure my new team beat the shit out of them when we played.
The Leafs are stuck between a rock and hard place.
But Marner is worth the 13 x 8. The first reason being he’s entering his prime and has been an 100 point per 82 game player for 5 years in a row. He also makes your #1 shooter, goal scorer, a better player both offensively and defensively. Additionally, that high price tag is simply the price of doing business in Toronto after what it costs him in taxes. And finally, who replaces Marner’s production on the UFA market or within the Leafs prospect system? The salary cap is going up by leaps and bounds for the next couple of years.
It’s a shitty price to pay but there simply is not a better option at the moment. Retain the asset, move forward accordingly. Trade Rielly, let Tavares walk.
Hey UG maybe you need a snickers?
Thanks for telling me to go fuck my face & accusing me of moving goal posts – perhaps you want to go back and read what I wrote when I posted the playoff stats of both wingers from this playoff season. You quoted me for god sakes – all the while you keep moving goal posts.
Here let me help you:
Not sure if this will work or not – trying to post the playoff stats for this year of Marner and Willy as a pic. -Cush
THIS YEARS PLAYOFFS
You get so upset when anyone points out flaws in your plans or god forbid drops some facts into the equation that you go full ballistic and start to call people names like retard and tell them to go fuck their face. Maybe the internet it not your thing? Great choice of an insult by the way – super mature of you.
So you refused to answer one poster repeatedly who asked a simple question and are doing the same when I ask what other team has a MM type player or even to tell me who Florida’s is. They don’t have one is the answer but you resort to “Willy was terrible in games 5-7” which has zero to do with my question and is nothing more than deflection and denial.
Perhaps you haven’t read all of what I wrote today – Nylander was defensively terrible in games just like Marner , nobody is denying that fact & in fact I said it already so why are you now telling me to repeat it and calling me dense? lol
Side note – yes Marner got 1 point (a pedestrian assist) in games 2-7 inclusive THIS YEAR, Nylander 0 – what a staggering difference.Both sucked and disappeared in games 5-7 THIS YEAR so not sure why you keep harping about it, especially when many including me have acknowledged it multiple times.
It’s pointless to even try to have a balanced, rationale discussion with you because you make shit up, move goal posts, set your feet and stomp and cry when facts are presented to you.
You may want to tone down the personal attacks, not sure what Mike’s stance is on all of what you have thrown out there today but it’s a bit much and childish to be honest.
Hey UG maybe you need a snickers?
Maybe you need a clue.
Pointless drivel
Blah blah blah. Waste of time.
So you refused to answer one poster repeatedly who asked a simple question and are doing the same when I ask what other team has a MM type player or even to tell me who Florida’s is. They don’t have one is the answer but you resort to “Willy was terrible in games 5-7” which has zero to do with my question and is nothing more than deflection and denial.
Reinhart. Answered it twice now but perhaps you might not be able to read all that well. Tkachuk, by the way, had 0 goals vs the Leafs. Is he a passenger now? Marner went tit for tat with Reinhart both offensively and defensively. Marner actually went beyond Reinhart because his play directly won his team 2 games. Reinhart didn’t even have one GWG in the series.
Perhaps you haven’t read all of what I wrote today – Nylander was defensively terrible in games just like Marner , nobody is denying that fact & in fact I said it already so why are you now telling me to repeat it and calling me dense? lol
Marner is not terrible defensively, the stats clearly show that.
Side note – yes Marner got 1 point (a pedestrian assist) in games 2-7 inclusive THIS YEAR, Nylander 0 – what a staggering difference.Both sucked and disappeared in games 5-7 THIS YEAR so not sure why you keep harping about it, especially when many including me have acknowledged it multiple times.
Stole the puck, primary assist on the GWG. It’s only pedestrian in your mind because it annihilates your garbage narrative. Marner had a GWG and a primary assist on the Game 6 game winner. Nylander had nothing. Your entire garbage argument is built on the lie that Marner disappears in elimination games, but when he showed up and Nylander did not, it some how doesn’t count or matter because Nylander’s hair is moist or something stupid.
It’s pointless to even try to have a balanced, rationale discussion with you because you make shit up, move goal posts, set your feet and stomp and cry when facts are presented to you.
It’s indeed pointless because you’re very bad with dealing with reality.
You may want to tone down the personal attacks, not sure what Mike’s stance is on all of what you have thrown out there today but it’s a bit much and childish to be honest.
You got back what you dished out. Don’t bitch about it now.
Marner is gone.
It sucks. Love him or hate him, he’s gone.
Worse, the Leafs aren’t getting shit back. Maybe a pick if they do a sign and trade, but that extra year isn’t getting you a treasure haul.
So, instead of debating whether or not he may go, or should he go, or what should we pay him, it might be more productive to start wish-spending all that sexy cap space that is the consolation prize for mismanaging an elite player.
Marner is gone.
That’s not 100%.
It sucks. Love him or hate him, he’s gone.
Worse, the Leafs aren’t getting shit back. Maybe a pick if they do a sign and trade, but that extra year isn’t getting you a treasure haul.
So, instead of debating whether or not he may go, or should he go, or what should we pay him, it might be more productive to start wish-spending all that sexy cap space that is the consolation prize for mismanaging an elite player.
There is nobody out there that will actually want to leave their superior team (Florida UFAs) for less money who will provide better results. People can wish all they want, there isn’t anybody out there. And the people who REALLY want to wish need to start praying for McJesus.
There is nobody out there that will actually want to leave their superior team (Florida UFAs) for less money who will provide better results. People can wish all they want, there isn’t anybody out there. And the people who REALLY want to wish need to start praying for McJesus. – Uggie
It’s not 100% that he’s gone, but if I was a gambling man, that is where the safe money would be. That Utah mountain air, low taxes, and anonymity is mighty enticing, along with $14m per and finally being “The Man(tm)”. Most signs point to a farewell.
We’re in agreement on replacing his production – they won’t, or at least not with this current crop of UFAs or realistically-available trade targets.
The Leafs are right fucked on this one.
It’s not 100% that he’s gone, but if I was a gambling man, that is where the safe money would be. That Utah mountain air, low taxes, and anonymity is mighty enticing, along with $14m per and finally being “The Man(tm)”. Most signs point to a farewell.
We’re in agreement on replacing his production – they won’t, or at least not with this current crop of UFAs or realistically-available trade targets.
The Leafs are right fucked on this one.
Marner genuinely wants to stay in Toronto. If he didn’t, he’d already be in Carolina, making more money and still in the playoffs. He chose to stay.
Everybody says his family controls his life but they’re going to control him to go away from where they all live? Doesn’t add up.
Marner wants what he deserves, as every single player does even when they lie that they don’t, and he wants to stay with the Leafs.
Matthews is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Nylander is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Tavares was allowed to be overpaid disappear as long as he takes a “discount” on his next deal.
But Marner? He’s a weak, soft, crying, greedy bitch.
Overwhelming evidence shows most Leafs fans and media need a lobotomy including Rick Vaive who pretends he’s some kind of Cup winning playoff legend when he talks shit about Marner.
I will stop the insanity after this post as I’m sure most of the folks here are tired of reading the back and forth but let me set the record straight.
I never intended to make this a Nylander vs Marner argument about ‘who is better’ – its not about that at all.
It’s about who fits into the constraints financially / cap wise that this team has, who leaving will create more cap space to allow the Leafs to better balance this roster & who is easier to move right now.
The answer to the 1st part is Willy at 11M (vs Marner at 13M or more) and the answer to the 2nd one is Marner and it’s also Marner (and maybe JT too) for the 3rd.
Marner is a fantastic player and if it was Willy who was the UFA right now I’d be saying move him FFS – does that make it any clearer that this isn’t me saying Nylander is better (which is a stupid argument since they are much different players who bring much different things to the table really)?
That being said I have posted stats to help show that the entire narrative that Willy is garbage and Mitch is without fault combined with the theory that the Leafs will be doomed and they absolutely can’t part ways with Marner is overblown. Willy has in fact produced more in games 5-7 than Marner (Monkey you continually ignore this fact and it’s the basis for much of the dislike for Marner’s game from many) so I guess that’s giving the “Willy vs Mitch” vibe and sure it’s reactionary to hearing the whining about a Nylander shift but not acknowledging the mistakes Marner made but good lord they are facts not fabricated things I’m saying to try and ‘prove’ something – facts prove them already.
I call BS that this team can’t succeed without Marner, they may have to change the way they play (which they have started already & can continue to, it’s why I kept asking where Florida’s Mitch Marner type of player was or any other highly successful teams Marner type of player was. None of those teams have both a Marner and Nylander type at the salary that Nylander and Marner made this year, never mind what Marner’s next salary is – it’s too much of the same, soft thing do we not all see that at this point?
Side note – Sam Reinhart makes 8.625 M per year until 2031 – 2032.
Marner made 10.9 M per year from 2019 to 2024 and wants more now.If there was no cap OR the core players didn’t each saddle up to the bar and take every last penny available to them vs leaving some on the table to allow more for the things they don’t have then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion but they didn’t and we are where we are.
I will say it now – if they bring Marner back at 12 M I think they will continue to have the same issues but I could be wrong and I’d happily admit to being wrong but i just don’t see it happening. Just because JT leaves – there are other guys who need more and will demand it (Knies and eventually your goaltending etc.).
Last thing – UG your claim that I “got back what I dished out & shouldn’t bitch about it now.” is just pure bullshit.
You spiraled into personal over the top insults and the behaviour of a teenager going full rage mode not me. Seriously who even uses retard anymore in their vocabulary? Grow up.
Overpaying ANY player for continuing to disappear in critical games is super problematic and the result of a mistake or multiple mistakes being made.
Not taking advantage of an opportunity to try and correct one or more of those mistake because you made the same ones in the past is just plain stupid as fuck.
Leafs have an opportunity to try and start the repairs to the damage from these mistakes with Marner and JT.
They should have started earlier with others (they never should have put themselves in that position either) but that’s in the past and you can’t change it now.
I hope they will do the difficult but right thing but fear they will do the easy and wrong one.
Again.
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