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I love how Jason mentions trading for Thomas and Matthews. Why the fuck on earth would either one give any consideration to play for the FLyers when they control where they can play.
Such a shame how dumb flyers fans really are. Flyers are not a destination. The sports landscape has changed. my bad they have tocchet to convince these guys.,
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
Every franchise goes through the process of being a “non destination franchise”, very few franchises stay competitive for more than a decade or so before they start to decline. As a general rule of thumb. Look at the Coyotes/Mammoth, we sucked in Arizona for how long? 20 years? Until we hired a GM, Bill Armstrong in Sept 2020, who was committed to properly rebuild, with the blessing of ownership, Arizona was a no-go destination. Now we have some good young players and a new owner who’s committed to winning. Right now you’re in the John Chayka phase, eventually you’ll get to the point where Briere is gone and ownership submits to a proper rebuild, although, you’re already set up pretty good with picks for 2026 and 2027 where you have two 1st’s and two 3rd’s.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
how can any person have any faith in tocchet is baffling. returning players have regressed.
agree with pretty much the rest.
zegras has a nice bounce back season no doubt. that being said he has cooled off a lot since the new year. will be interesting to see what type of contract he wants/ends up signing. Is he a guy you commit 8 years to? I am sure the flyers think so.
with the way the flyers draft their best bet is a trade. though danny refuses to move off is “guys”. severely overrates them and places way too high a value.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
Every franchise goes through the process of being a “non destination franchise”, very few franchises stay competitive for more than a decade or so before they start to decline. As a general rule of thumb. Look at the Coyotes/Mammoth, we sucked in Arizona for how long? 20 years? Until we hired a GM, Bill Armstrong in Sept 2020, who was committed to properly rebuild, with the blessing of ownership, Arizona was a no-go destination. Now we have some good young players and a new owner who’s committed to winning. Right now you’re in the John Chayka phase, eventually you’ll get to the point where Briere is gone and ownership submits to a proper rebuild, although, you’re already set up pretty good with picks for 2026 and 2027 where you have two 1st’s and two 3rd’s.
there has been a decade+ of incompetency. That isn’t changing any time soon.
when you waster 1st rd picks on jett and nesbitt doesnt matter how many 1st you have
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there has been a decade+ of incompetency. That isn’t changing any time soon.
when you waster 1st rd picks on jett and nesbitt doesnt matter how many 1st you have
Wasted picks, LOL, you’re such a drama queen. Seven kids in the entire draft taken after Luchanko have played a game in the NHL. Even if he doesn’t pan out, the draft is not an exact science.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
how can any person have any faith in tocchet is baffling. returning players have regressed.
agree with pretty much the rest.
zegras has a nice bounce back season no doubt. that being said he has cooled off a lot since the new year. will be interesting to see what type of contract he wants/ends up signing. Is he a guy you commit 8 years to? I am sure the flyers think so.
with the way the flyers draft their best bet is a trade. though danny refuses to move off is “guys”. severely overrates them and places way too high a value.
It’s actually been since Christmas (nitpicking i know). Since then he’s scored 17 pts in 29 games or a pace of 48 pts over a season. He got the majority of his points early in the season at winger. I still can’t believe it took them 50+ games to try him at center. They did themselves no favors in evaluating him. Is he a center or winger? 2nd line or 3rd line on a contending team? He hasn’t been healthy 2 out of the last 3 years and he’s currently making 5.75 mill/yr. He’s 1 year from UFA coming off a bridge deal with the Flyers already talking up how much cap room they have and want to spend. He’s going to want some of that UFA money.
The Flyers do overrate their own players as we see time and time again. Dvorak, despite getting 1st line minutes has been 17 pts in 29 games since Christmas or a 39 point pace over a season.
This is why you start with the elite core players and build around them. If the Flyers had a McDavid or Celebrini for example allowing both Dvorak and Zegras slot lower in the lineup with less pressure which also helps the lower lines have better line mates and everyone’s situation improves. How can you evaluate them for the job they should have if you can’t/don’t slot them properly? The Flyers would rather have a 3rd line player average 20 min/game over the last 10 games because Flyers media will rubber stamp anything they do and it’s easier than doing what is necessary.
Who is the core of this team and where should those player actually be slotted? What is the timeline? Konecny and Sanheim will both be in their 30s next year, signing them long term was a huge mistake if they the Flyers aren’t competing for a cup now. Listening to Jonesy it sounded like their go time was NOW before all the elite UFA talent dried up.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
Every franchise goes through the process of being a “non destination franchise”, very few franchises stay competitive for more than a decade or so before they start to decline. As a general rule of thumb. Look at the Coyotes/Mammoth, we sucked in Arizona for how long? 20 years? Until we hired a GM, Bill Armstrong in Sept 2020, who was committed to properly rebuild, with the blessing of ownership, Arizona was a no-go destination. Now we have some good young players and a new owner who’s committed to winning. Right now you’re in the John Chayka phase, eventually you’ll get to the point where Briere is gone and ownership submits to a proper rebuild, although, you’re already set up pretty good with picks for 2026 and 2027 where you have two 1st’s and two 3rd’s.
First, fair play to Utah no longer being an irrelevant franchise. Certainly, Weeger did waive his NTC to come to Utah. I think we can agree Weeger is a really good Dman, not elite (not many elite Dman in the league-not meant to be a dig). However, I do think there are destination franchises that truly elite players will only waive to go to in a trade in this current environment. The no state tax franchises do have an advantage. Bettman can downplay that factor all he wants, but it is a factor with today’s player simply because of the salary cap. Some players like Panarin enjoy playing in large media markets. Pre cap the Flyers had a tremendous advantage with Snider at the helm. The Flyers and other big market teams just would outspend other franchises because they had such an advantage accumulating revenue.
Hypothetically, let’s assume B. Tkachuk and A. Matthews decide they will not extend with their current franchises in a few years. As a Flyers fan, I would be shocked to see them waive to come here. Does the Utah franchise have a better chance then Philly to land them? Probably. On the same level as Vegas, TB, FLA, DAL, CHI, LA, or NYR? Probably not. So I disagree with you it is only cyclical based upon if a franchise is playing competitive hockey. In 5 years, may be my opinion will change.
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I do agree this no longer a destination franchise. Having players waive NMC to come here is going to be unlikely. The few times an elite talent becomes available without a NMC (ie Quinn Hughes), the organization cannot just say “oh well, we got outbid”. Since free agency is not an option and the current regime has no interest in team stripping to get close to top 5 for the next couple of drafts, the only way forward is more Zegras and Jiricek trades. Players who have not lived up to their pre draft hype. That’s why the team has to be willing to move Tippett and/or Foerster this summer. See if they can get Berniers out of SEA. Another organization going no where with a high draft pick who has not lived up to his hype on a long-term contract. Notice he does not have a NMC clause. The regime will need some luck and a HC to maximize the skill of Michkov and Martone. I’m not sure which is more likely- getting the luck needed to win big in Zegras type trades or the current HC who can maximize his players’ performance.
how can any person have any faith in tocchet is baffling. returning players have regressed.
agree with pretty much the rest.
zegras has a nice bounce back season no doubt. that being said he has cooled off a lot since the new year. will be interesting to see what type of contract he wants/ends up signing. Is he a guy you commit 8 years to? I am sure the flyers think so.
with the way the flyers draft their best bet is a trade. though danny refuses to move off is “guys”. severely overrates them and places way too high a value.
The Tocchet fit was odd from the start because throughout his entire HC career his teams were never offensive juggernauts. Now, the argument is Tocchet really never had a chance to coach a really good team. Well, with the shelf life of HCs in the NHL lasting 2 years, one would think a playoff team would have looked at Tocchet as a must have coach to put them over the top if he was viewed that way.
For a team that relies on undersized wings to drive offensive play to use a system which is not dependent on generating speed into the offensive zone seems like a bad fit. I had no issue not making Shaw the HC over the summer. My personal choice was Ferschweiler because Carle was a pipe dream. Just because Hakstol did not not work does not mean close the door on college HCs. There were some good options at the AHL level which were intriguing. Alas, the Flyers hire a retread with 1 true playoff appearance in 9 years. Torts made 12 playoff appearances in his career. I am no fan of Torts, but firing a HC who was probably on his last HC job to replace him with a HC on probably his last HC job in a rebuild seemed like an odd choice.
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Hypothetically, let’s assume B. Tkachuk and A. Matthews decide they will not extend with their current franchises in a few years. As a Flyers fan, I would be shocked to see them waive to come here. Does the Utah franchise have a better chance then Philly to land them? Probably. On the same level as Vegas, TB, FLA, DAL, CHI, LA, or NYR? Probably not. So I disagree with you it is only cyclical based upon if a franchise is playing competitive hockey. In 5 years, may be my opinion will change.
Players just wanna win, winning solves a lot of issues. Winning starts with drafting well. Typically you have to lose to get good draft position, that’s just how the systems set up. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Barkov, Matthews, Eichel, Heiskanen, Makar, Stutzle, etc. These kids are all top five picks, the Flyers have had one top five pick in the past eight drafts, Cutter Gauthier, who they traded away because he’s a bitch.
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The Tocchet fit was odd from the start because throughout his entire HC career his teams were never offensive juggernauts. Now, the argument is Tocchet really never had a chance to coach a really good team. Well, with the shelf life of HCs in the NHL lasting 2 years, one would think a playoff team would have looked at Tocchet as a must have coach to put them over the top if he was viewed that way.
For a team that relies on undersized wings to drive offensive play to use a system which is not dependent on generating speed into the offensive zone seems like a bad fit. I had no issue not making Shaw the HC over the summer. My personal choice was Ferschweiler because Carle was a pipe dream. Just because Hakstol did not not work does not mean close the door on college HCs. There were some good options at the AHL level which were intriguing. Alas, the Flyers hire a retread with 1 true playoff appearance in 9 years. Torts made 12 playoff appearances in his career. I am no fan of Torts, but firing a HC who was probably on his last HC job to replace him with a HC on probably his last HC job in a rebuild seemed like an odd choice.
That’s because it’s not a rebuild. The Flyers have been trying to make the playoffs all along. Viewed through that lens it all makes sense. Remember it wasn’t until towards the end of his final season as coach that Torts accepted that this wasn’t a playoff caliber roster. Michkov and Martone were a product of organizational failure, not planning on the Flyers part.
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The Tocchet fit was odd from the start because throughout his entire HC career his teams were never offensive juggernauts. Now, the argument is Tocchet really never had a chance to coach a really good team. Well, with the shelf life of HCs in the NHL lasting 2 years, one would think a playoff team would have looked at Tocchet as a must have coach to put them over the top if he was viewed that way.
For a team that relies on undersized wings to drive offensive play to use a system which is not dependent on generating speed into the offensive zone seems like a bad fit. I had no issue not making Shaw the HC over the summer. My personal choice was Ferschweiler because Carle was a pipe dream. Just because Hakstol did not not work does not mean close the door on college HCs. There were some good options at the AHL level which were intriguing. Alas, the Flyers hire a retread with 1 true playoff appearance in 9 years. Torts made 12 playoff appearances in his career. I am no fan of Torts, but firing a HC who was probably on his last HC job to replace him with a HC on probably his last HC job in a rebuild seemed like an odd choice.
That’s because it’s not a rebuild. The Flyers have been trying to make the playoffs all along. Viewed through that lens it all makes sense. Remember it wasn’t until towards the end of his final season as coach that Torts accepted that this wasn’t a playoff caliber roster. Michkov and Martone were a product of organizational failure, not planning on the Flyers part.
I tend to agree. After Torts was fired, I really was skeptical with all the Tocchet bluster to the Flyers, even after he left VAN. If they were going retread route, I thought they would have pursued Sullivan a lot harder. It does seem like an old boy Flyers hire, which is sad. Rick Bowness came back to coach Columbus this year. 4 out of his last 5 years as HC his team made the playoffs. The ultimate win now coach with a better track record. A month after Tocchet was hired, Peter Deboer was fired by DAL.
For a front office that likes to show a public perception of being quiet and not say a lot, they sure seem to like to have HCs who do not know when to just shut up. Its a weird mixture. The Flyers will finish better in the standings then last season, but I find this team to be a hard watch most games. Just my opinion. The offensive output still stinks, so the concerns about the Tocchet hire do seem to be justified. Vladar has stolen them points this year and the goalie is part of the team. What track record is there to suggest Tocchet can turn the offense around? 1 year in now 10 years as HC his offense was not even middle of the road. The argument can be made well he never got to be a HC of a good team. Well, this is a league where HCs last about two years, so why did no good teams at the time hire Rick Tocchet. Seems like the relationship between Arizona and himself was mutually beneficial, both sides going nowhere. VAN ownership is known as not really stable. I would have thought that would have been more of a red flag for the regime.
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I tend to agree. After Torts was fired, I really was skeptical with all the Tocchet bluster to the Flyers, even after he left VAN. If they were going retread route, I thought they would have pursued Sullivan a lot harder. It does seem like an old boy Flyers hire, which is sad. Rick Bowness came back to coach Columbus this year. 4 out of his last 5 years as HC his team made the playoffs. The ultimate win now coach with a better track record. A month after Tocchet was hired, Peter Deboer was fired by DAL.
For a front office that likes to show a public perception of being quiet and not say a lot, they sure seem to like to have HCs who do not know when to just shut up. Its a weird mixture. The Flyers will finish better in the standings then last season, but I find this team to be a hard watch most games. Just my opinion. The offensive output still stinks, so the concerns about the Tocchet hire do seem to be justified. Vladar has stolen them points this year and the goalie is part of the team. What track record is there to suggest Tocchet can turn the offense around? 1 year in now 10 years as HC his offense was not even middle of the road. The argument can be made well he never got to be a HC of a good team. Well, this is a league where HCs last about two years, so why did no good teams at the time hire Rick Tocchet. Seems like the relationship between Arizona and himself was mutually beneficial, both sides going nowhere. VAN ownership is known as not really stable. I would have thought that would have been more of a red flag for the regime.
I disagree with that perception but hard to disagree with the rest. DB and Jonesy have been here 3 years and every year they have to hold a major press conferences due to controversy
Year 1. Cutter. Whether or not people believe the Flyers had any fault in him leaving the PR media blitz was amateur hour. From Hilferty->Jones->Torts they just trashed this kid loudly and often. That was not professional at all.
Year 2. Torts abusing York and separately Torts publicly quitting on the team was a national PR nightmare for the Flyers
Year 3. Tocchet’s incomprehensible press conferences where he had to mention Michkov reported to camp out of shape, even if it wasn’t relevant to the question asked caused DB to call for a press conference just to address it. Not to mention Jonesy has had no problem discussing on the record that plan A this year was to buy an elite center/d in FA, that the plan predictably failed, and that there is no plan B. -
Hypothetically, let’s assume B. Tkachuk and A. Matthews decide they will not extend with their current franchises in a few years. As a Flyers fan, I would be shocked to see them waive to come here. Does the Utah franchise have a better chance then Philly to land them? Probably. On the same level as Vegas, TB, FLA, DAL, CHI, LA, or NYR? Probably not. So I disagree with you it is only cyclical based upon if a franchise is playing competitive hockey. In 5 years, may be my opinion will change.
Players just wanna win, winning solves a lot of issues. Winning starts with drafting well. Typically you have to lose to get good draft position, that’s just how the systems set up. McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Barkov, Matthews, Eichel, Heiskanen, Makar, Stutzle, etc. These kids are all top five picks, the Flyers have had one top five pick in the past eight drafts, Cutter Gauthier, who they traded away because he’s a bitch.
damn is that why? flyers really showed him
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