Mike Fink — Ranking the NHL Rebuilds Closest to Contention — Flyers (6th)

Don’t think they have taken the right approach at all

Can’t rebuild something that was never built. Flyers are so far away from cup contention it is sad.

Some of those grades are generous to me.

“but the difficult work is in the rearview mirror for Briere”

How the hell is the difficult work in the rear view mirror.

Don’t think they have taken the right approach at all

What exactly would the right approach be? Give me 3 to 5 really bad decisions made since Briere took over at GM.

Ranked 6th out of how many rebuilds? Either way, his grades seem overly generous for a team that finished last in their division, and here’s why I think that way…

Overall Rebuild Grade B What exactly has been rebuilt? I still don’t see a heck of a lot of high-end talent in the pipeline. You’d think finishing outside the playoffs each of the past 4 seasons would have netted a couple of exciting prospects, but alas, there’s only Porter Martone to show for their woes.

Overall Roster C+ This may be the only realistic grade on this list, though I’d drop it just based on the below-average defense and the abysmal goaltending.

Prospect Pool A- This one puzzles me. With the exception of Michkov (who’s already on the NHL roster) and Martone falling into their laps, where does such a high rating come from? There’s no top defenseman nor is there a top center in the system, and we all know the Flyers goaltending prospects have been mostly disappointing for 3 1/2 decades now.

Head Coach & General Manager B Really don’t get this one either. The trades Briere has made have pretty much been no-brainers. There are other trades he should have made, but like the two GMs before him, there just doesn’t seem to be any creativity in trying to improve the roster with the few assets that could fetch something of significance (more than late round draft picks) in return. And don’t get me started on continuing the tradition of making the “safe pick” (outside of Michkov & Martone, has there been any attempt to swing for the fences?). As for the HC, where’s the hot goaltender to bail him out? Tocchet’s record without one is more of what the Flyers have experienced over the past 4 seasons. A .448 career winning percentage is not overly inspiring to me (and don’t use the “bad teams” excuse because that’s what he’s inheriting in Philly).

I’ve watched this team for far too long to think they’re setting themselves up for success right now. All I’m seeing is an unwillingness to learn from the repeated mistakes of the past decade.

Flyers are making progress, but still have work to do before true contention.

VonZipper wrote:

Ranked 6th out of how many rebuilds? Either way, his grades seem overly generous for a team that finished last in their division, and here’s why I think that way…

Overall Rebuild Grade B What exactly has been rebuilt? I still don’t see a heck of a lot of high-end talent in the pipeline. You’d think finishing outside the playoffs each of the past 4 seasons would have netted a couple of exciting prospects, but alas, there’s only Porter Martone to show for their woes.

Overall Roster C+ This may be the only realistic grade on this list, though I’d drop it just based on the below-average defense and the abysmal goaltending.

Prospect Pool A- This one puzzles me. With the exception of Michkov (who’s already on the NHL roster) and Martone falling into their laps, where does such a high rating come from? There’s no top defenseman nor is there a top center in the system, and we all know the Flyers goaltending prospects have been mostly disappointing for 3 1/2 decades now.

Head Coach & General Manager B Really don’t get this one either. The trades Briere has made have pretty much been no-brainers. There are other trades he should have made, but like the two GMs before him, there just doesn’t seem to be any creativity in trying to improve the roster with the few assets that could fetch something of significance (more than late round draft picks) in return. And don’t get me started on continuing the tradition of making the “safe pick” (outside of Michkov & Martone, has there been any attempt to swing for the fences?). As for the HC, where’s the hot goaltender to bail him out? Tocchet’s record without one is more of what the Flyers have experienced over the past 4 seasons. A .448 career winning percentage is not overly inspiring to me (and don’t use the “bad teams” excuse because that’s what he’s inheriting in Philly).

I’ve watched this team for far too long to think they’re setting themselves up for success right now. All I’m seeing is an unwillingness to learn from the repeated mistakes of the past decade.

agree with solid points.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Don’t think they have taken the right approach at all

What exactly would the right approach be? Give me 3 to 5 really bad decisions made since Briere took over at GM.

They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.

They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.

Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.

The proposed Krug deal is yet another reminder of the Flyers Front Office giving the appearance they’re not really doing their homework. How many injured players have they traded for/tried to trade for in the past 5 seasons? It’s a recurring theme at this point, and yet another reason they Flyers do not get (nor do they deserve) the benefit of the doubt from me.

Out of curiosity, what are these “fundamental things being done right?”

The proposed Krug deal is yet another reminder of the Flyers Front Office giving the appearance they’re not really doing their homework. How many injured players have they traded for/tried to trade for in the past 5 seasons? It’s a recurring theme at this point, and yet another reason they Flyers do not get (nor do they deserve) the benefit of the doubt from me.

Out of curiosity, what are these “fundamental things being done right?”

The trade deadline deals have been good. Got them picks they’ve turned into young, bigger tougher to play against forwards through the draft. The Flyers haven’t, overall, been a tough team to play against. They’re addressing the obvious needs at center with deals that brought in Zegras and Dvorak.

FlyerFrank wrote:

They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.

Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.

24th on goals, 28th GAA, 29th differential, PP 30th, PK% 20th, s/gp 28th, sv% 32nd. They lost 500 SOG last year from the previous year.

The Flyers were not a good puck possession team last year. Their metrics show they deserve to be a bottom feeder team. The best thing you can say about them is that their historically bad PP (and they are in the record books for being the worst in the league for 3 years straight) is no longer the worst, just god awful. The fundamentals you speak of, don’t exist. It’s the dreaded “eye test” i guess.

A real GM would’ve fired Rocky. There was literally nobody worse in the league and he was untouchable. Hell Torts was only let go after Torts crossed the line with York and then told the world that he had no interest in coaching another game for the team. Even then DB lamented how much he wanted Torts back.

Briere made many many mistakes from the Gauthier debacle (regardless of how people feel about CB, the Flyers were bush league in how they demonized the kid). To the Flyers not realizing the difference between man-to-man defense vs zone when they evaluated/traded for Drysdale. To allowing Torts to dictate that the Phantoms can do whatever the hell they want system wise because he dgaf. Bribing Fedotov to come over with a large NHL contract, Kolosov handling, goalie handling in general.

The mistakes are legion and that’s just a few. Last season was a poopshow from start to finish but DB didn’t do much until Torts forced his hand publicly. How many other teams in the NHL intentionally start the season shorthanded on defense? Others have mentioned more. We’d be here all day if we listed everything.

Flyers_01 wrote:

FlyerFrank wrote:

They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.

Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.

24th on goals, 28th GAA, 29th differential, PP 30th, PK% 20th, s/gp 28th, sv% 32nd. They lost 500 SOG last year from the previous year.

The Flyers were not a good puck possession team last year. Their metrics show they deserve to be a bottom feeder team. The best thing you can say about them is that their historically bad PP (and they are in the record books for being the worst in the league for 3 years straight) is no longer the worst, just god awful. The fundamentals you speak of, don’t exist. It’s the dreaded “eye test” i guess.

A real GM would’ve fired Rocky. There was literally nobody worse in the league and he was untouchable. Hell Torts was only let go after Torts crossed the line with York and then told the world that he had no interest in coaching another game for the team. Even then DB lamented how much he wanted Torts back.

Briere made many many mistakes from the Gauthier debacle (regardless of how people feel about CB, the Flyers were bush league in how they demonized the kid). To the Flyers not realizing the difference between man-to-man defense vs zone when they evaluated/traded for Drysdale. To allowing Torts to dictate that the Phantoms can do whatever the hell they want system wise because he dgaf. Bribing Fedotov to come over with a large NHL contract, Kolosov handling, goalie handling in general.

The mistakes are legion and that’s just a few. Last season was a poopshow from start to finish but DB didn’t do much until Torts forced his hand publicly. How many other teams in the NHL intentionally start the season shorthanded on defense? Others have mentioned more. We’d be here all day if we listed everything.

this does not get mentioned at all. he flat out said he wanted to bring him back.

24th on goals, 28th GAA, 29th differential, PP 30th, PK% 20th, s/gp 28th, sv% 32nd. They lost 500 SOG last year from the previous year.

The Flyers were not a good puck possession team last year. Their metrics show they deserve to be a bottom feeder team. The best thing you can say about them is that their historically bad PP (and they are in the record books for being the worst in the league for 3 years straight) is no longer the worst, just god awful. The fundamentals you speak of, don’t exist. It’s the dreaded “eye test” i guess.

A real GM would’ve fired Rocky. There was literally nobody worse in the league and he was untouchable. Hell Torts was only let go after Torts crossed the line with York and then told the world that he had no interest in coaching another game for the team. Even then DB lamented how much he wanted Torts back.

Briere made many many mistakes from the Gauthier debacle (regardless of how people feel about CB, the Flyers were bush league in how they demonized the kid). To the Flyers not realizing the difference between man-to-man defense vs zone when they evaluated/traded for Drysdale. To allowing Torts to dictate that the Phantoms can do whatever the hell they want system wise because he dgaf. Bribing Fedotov to come over with a large NHL contract, Kolosov handling, goalie handling in general.

The mistakes are legion and that’s just a few. Last season was a poopshow from start to finish but DB didn’t do much until Torts forced his hand publicly. How many other teams in the NHL intentionally start the season shorthanded on defense? Others have mentioned more. We’d be here all day if we listed everything.

It’s not like I think Briere has been mistake free. Gauthier, seems like they overpaid and overcommitted to Tippett, the late season nonsense with Torts. At least you’re naming them and I added one myself. You can’t redo Gauthier, overpaying a guy who has proven he can play isn’t the worst thing in the world and Torts and Thompson are gone . . . replaced with what looks to me like upgrades. Where are the downgrades?

FlyerFrank wrote:

It’s not like I think Briere has been mistake free. Gauthier, seems like they overpaid and overcommitted to Tippett, the late season nonsense with Torts. At least you’re naming them and I added one myself. You can’t redo Gauthier, overpaying a guy who has proven he can play isn’t the worst thing in the world and Torts and Thompson are gone . . . replaced with what looks to me like upgrades. Where are the downgrades?

The question was fundamentals and mistakes. If Tippett doesn’t bounce back this year that contract is an anchor and that is a very bad thing. Does anyone think he is anything other than a one dimensional player? Risto is still a flyer. They badly whiffed on evaluating Drysdale (and admitted it eventually) and time will tell but they probably set the team back several years in not drafting Buium who was and is currently predicted to be a #1 dman. One of the cornerstones the Flyers never seem to find but often lament. Also Bonk over Perrault, etc. Maybe the Flyers will ultimately prove to be the smartest guys in the room and not just some guy who took a night course but i have a bridge to sell you if you think that.

Downgrades? No place to go but up with the coaching staff and organizational philosophy but do you trust the color commentator and DB to know which direction is up? Tocchet is in theory a big upgrade but his winning % is something like .488 when he doesn’t have that alpha goalie (hint : the Flyers do not have that alpha goalie) and once again, they decided to take on the bad optics of hiring yet another exflyer. At least the AHL coach is an actual coach and not just an out of work exflyer enforcer.

The question was fundamentals and mistakes. If Tippett doesn’t bounce back this year that contract is an anchor and that is a very bad thing. Does anyone think he is anything other than a one dimensional player? RR is still a flyer. They badly whiffed on evaluating Drysdale (and admitted it eventually) and time will tell but they probably set the team back several years in not drafting Buium who was and is currently predicted to be a #1 dman. One of the cornerstones the Flyers never seem to find but often lament. Also Bonk over Perrault, etc. Maybe the Flyers will ultimately prove to be the smartest guys in the room and not just some guy who took a night course but i have a bridge to sell you if you think that.

Downgrades? No place to go but up with the coaching staff and organizational philosophy but do you trust the color commentator and DB to know which direction is up? Tocchet is in theory a big upgrade but his winning % is something like .488 when he doesn’t have that alpha goalie (hint : the Flyers do not have that alpha goalie) and once again, they decided to take on the bad optics of hiring yet another exflyer. At least the AHL coach is an actual coach and not just an out of work exflyer enforcer.

So your main gripe is the Flyers could have drafted better, not that they didn’t get players. Luchanko and Bonk appear to be future solid players even if they weren’t the best players available. Buium and Perrault are smallish. I’ll take my chances with Bonk and Luchanko and building a harder to play against team. Most of your complaints seem to be hypothetical, about a future that hasn’t happened. None of them, some of them, most of them or all of them could pan out. I have my own too. We seem to agree on the Drysdale problem. There’s so much negativity here, it tends to distract me from my own gripes and concerns.

FlyerFrank wrote:

So your main gripe is the Flyers could have drafted better, not that they didn’t get players. Luchanko and Bonk appear to be future solid players even if they weren’t the best players available. Buium and Perrault are smallish. I’ll take my chances with Bonk and Luchanko and building a harder to play against team. Most of your complaints seem to be hypothetical, about a future that hasn’t happened. None of them, some of them, most of them or all of them could pan out. I have my own too. We seem to agree on the Drysdale problem. There’s so much negativity here, it tends to distract me from my own gripes and concerns.

The team just spent multiple years trying to acquire those players. ND was one of those players. Tortorella just spent 3 years saying the same thing before he publicly told the team to f off and pay him not to coach. Where did that get the Flyers except some more fans in the seats who bought the cliche? It got a bunch of players who were burnt out by trying to go full speed for 60 minutes a game. The teams that are truly “harder to play against” are teams with good puck possession who play a system that fits their strengths. Teams with talent at the cornerstone positions where the team isn’t trying to hammer square pegs in round holes.

There is nobody who thinks the Flyers, a bottom feeder, are hard to play against. But hey, they do love to block shots for what it’s worth. Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

There is nobody who thinks the Flyers, a bottom feeder, are hard to play against.

Exactly, which is why I’m happy to see the Flyers address that issue, getting bigger and tougher, and others as well. You’re arguing in a circle. The guys you said they should have drafted don’t address that issue better than the players they did draft.

No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.

Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.

Defense and goaltending are long-term questions. Outside of Bonk possibly being a middle-pairing defenseman, what else of quality is currently in the system? And as I alluded to in a previous post, Flyers goaltending prospects have mostly been disappointing for the past 3 1/2 decades.

For whatever reasons, history shows the Flyers have had problems developing top-tier defensemen and goaltenders.

FlyerFrank wrote:

No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.

Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.

The flyers have been building a team that is “hard” to play against for how many years now? What a success. Wasn’t that accomplished with torts? Whatever the flyers have tried has been a total failure for a decade plus.

Funny how you much like the flyers always leave the most important part out. High end talent. Always the intangibles and other flyers propaganda buzzwords.

They also have legit short- and long-term questions at center. In other words, they pretty need everything.

Who are these big mean hits people and nasty to play against on the flyers currently? Who in the system fits that description?

Baphomet wrote:

Very well said, and I tend to look at the bright side of things but it’s tough with this franchise and what we’ve been given the last dozen seasons.

Still no 1C, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1D, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1G, nor is there one in the system.

Is it scouting, drafting, or player development? or all of the above? I am in the minority about Buium however, and not because I thought Jett was the better pick/prospect. I think the history with his agent would’ve possibly had the same outcome as CG.

All of the above.

The Phantoms were basically ignored by the Flyers during Torts run, there was no coordination between them and the NHL club. Torts told everyone that he told LaPerriere to do whatever he wanted because the Phantoms were his team and not to worry about what the Flyers were doing. It goes back longer than that but recent history is no surprise as Torts just thought hockey boiled down to yelling at people and blocking pucks and didn’t concern himself with much else.

Scouting and drafting go together. What you ask your scouts to look for determines what information they bring you and how you make your draft decisions. Would better scouts uncover better players? Probably but the Flyers have historically favored “Flyers players” which aren’t Stanley Cup players in the modern era. So it’s a bit of both. The scouts have been here through multiple regime changes though, it’s time for fresh eyes.

This is not directed at you as you haven’t said why you prefer Jett but Buium is 6’0, not exactly a smurf, i guess he needs to be 6’6″ to be considered a legitimate prospect by some fans? He has won just about every award there is to win before coming to the NHL, both team and individual. This is yet another example of why the Flyers continue to fail. If Buium becomes what he’s projected to and Jett becomes what he’s projected to, the Flyers will still declare themselves winners because they value “born to be a flyer” players over the players that can win Stanley Cups.

DB has had 3 drafts and has shown no urgency in trying to acquire the cornerstone players you listed above and are exiting the “rebuild”. How do you exit a rebuild you haven’t started? Based on what i’ve read their preference is to throw big money at UFA next year after their cap finally clears up, you know, like Fletcher did. Will there be anyone available who is worth throwing that money at? Probably not, but historically that has not stopped the flyers from doing it.

Baphomet wrote:

Very well said, and I tend to look at the bright side of things but it’s tough with this franchise and what we’ve been given the last dozen seasons.

Still no 1C, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1D, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1G, nor is there one in the system.

Is it scouting, drafting, or player development? or all of the above? I am in the minority about Buium however, and not because I thought Jett was the better pick/prospect. I think the history with his agent would’ve possibly had the same outcome as CG.

It is all the above and a cumulative effort of other departmental failures. I do not think the flyers hire the right people. Start with “hilf”. He has no business leading a sports franchise. He is a fan boy who IMO is easily manipulated.

They have nothing to sell except the past which shows these guys are not too bright. No new ideas. No new direction. No new concepts. No new anything. It will not change until the team is sold (not likely) or a total purge takes place. Again, not likely.

I never ever thought I would see this franchise end up in the shape it has ended up in. Really sad for someone who has been watching for decades.

FlyerFrank wrote:

No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.

Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.

Whether you agree with it or not, i provided my definition and you ignored it. Look at the Buffalo Sabres, they have 6’6″ players on offense and defense. Are they a team anyone is afraid of? Should they book the parade route?

I’m not saying that size isn’t helpful but it’s not the main thing. The last 5 norris trophy winners are 5’10”, 5’10”, 5’11, and 6′(x2). Buium is 6′. One of those is Makar who anchored the Avalanche to the Stanley Cup. Nothing else matters until they get their corner stone players. Aspiring to be the Buffalo Sabres is a low bar.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

It is all the above and a cumulative effort of other departmental failures. I do not think the flyers hire the right people. Start with “hilf”. He has no business leading a sports franchise. He is a fan boy who IMO is easily manipulated.

They have nothing to sell except the past which shows these guys are not too bright. No new ideas. No new direction. No new concepts. No new anything. It will not change until the team is sold (not likely) or a total purge takes place. Again, not likely.

I never ever thought I would see this franchise end up in the shape it has ended up in. Really sad for someone who has been watching for decades.

Much like their draft picks, the Flyers only seem to make comfortable organizational hires. It’s almost as if they don’t want to look outside of their little bubble as they’re afraid someone not entrenched in the “Flyers Way” might actually tell them what a brain-dead shit show this organization has become.

I’m like you… watched for decades, and never imagined they would fall to the depths they find themselves in now. And I’ll add to that I have zero confidence the people in place right now are the ones who can get things turned around.

VonZipper wrote:

yes its me 2050 wrote:

It is all the above and a cumulative effort of other departmental failures. I do not think the flyers hire the right people. Start with “hilf”. He has no business leading a sports franchise. He is a fan boy who IMO is easily manipulated.

They have nothing to sell except the past which shows these guys are not too bright. No new ideas. No new direction. No new concepts. No new anything. It will not change until the team is sold (not likely) or a total purge takes place. Again, not likely.

I never ever thought I would see this franchise end up in the shape it has ended up in. Really sad for someone who has been watching for decades.

Much like their draft picks, the Flyers only seem to make comfortable organizational hires. It’s almost as if they don’t want to look outside of their little bubble as they’re afraid someone not entrenched in the “Flyers Way” might actually tell them what a brain-dead shit show this organization has become.

I’m like you… watched for decades, and never imagined they would fall to the depths they find themselves in now. And I’ll add to that I have zero confidence the people in place right now are the ones who can get things turned around.

not sure how anyone can.

Defense and goaltending are long-term questions. Outside of Bonk possibly being a middle-pairing defenseman, what else of quality is currently in the system? And as I alluded to in a previous post, Flyers goaltending prospects have mostly been disappointing for the past 3 1/2 decades.

For whatever reasons, history shows the Flyers have had problems developing top-tier defensemen and goaltenders.

I think those questions will get answered pretty quickly. If the team D, goalies included, doesn’t get better they’re in for another bad season. I frankly don’t think it can get any worse. They still have Dmen and at least a couple two-way forwards they can build around. You’re overestimating the importance of having originally drafted Dmen for good teams. Spent some time on this, and the majority of Dmen on top teams are usually acquired as already developed, plug and play pros.

to Flyers O1: Buium is the better player, and I would love to have a D with his talent in orange and black, but the history with his agent gives me pause. I’m not going to loose sleep no matter how his career turns out. CG on the other hand, especially if #9 flounders, will haunt me like BOB.

You hit the nail on the head “yes it’s me”.

FlyerFrank wrote:

I think those questions will get answered pretty quickly. If the team D, goalies included, doesn’t get better they’re in for another bad season. I frankly don’t think it can get any worse. They still have Dmen and at least a couple two-way forwards they can build around. You’re overestimating the importance of having originally drafted Dmen for good teams. Spent some time on this, and the majority of Dmen on top teams are usually acquired as already developed, plug and play pros.

You’re looking small picture here. I’m looking big picture. Outside of the players who are currently on the NHL roster (which as a unit, is below average) and Oliver Bonk (who right now one has to hope can get somewhere near his ceiling or he’s just another name we’ll soon forget), what defenseman in the system is NHL quality within the next 2-5 years? Ditto for the goaltenders. Until one of those kids shows he can perform at the NHL level, they’re all the second coming of Maxime Oulette to me.

And as replied on another thread… how many good defensemen are you going to acquire via FA when you constantly spend to the cap? And yes, there is money coming off the books this season, but is it enough to rebuild a bad defense on the fly, and realistically, can this team spend it’s way out of its troubles? They sure as hell haven’t done it the past 15 seasons.

You’re looking small picture here. I’m looking big picture. Outside of the players who are currently on the NHL roster (which as a unit, is below average) and Oliver Bonk (who right now one has to hope can get somewhere near his ceiling or he’s just another name we’ll soon forget), what defenseman in the system is NHL quality within the next 2-5 years? Ditto for the goaltenders. Until one of those kids shows he can perform at the NHL level, they’re all the second coming of Maxime Oulette to me.

And as replied on another thread… how many good defensemen are you going to acquire via FA when you constantly spend to the cap? And yes, there is money coming off the books this season, but is it enough to rebuild a bad defense on the fly, and realistically, can this team spend it’s way out of its troubles? They sure as hell haven’t done it the past 15 seasons.

I’m looking at the small picture on D? I’m looking at the D corps of the best teams currently and in the recent past. If Sanheim, York and Bonk can comprise the Top 6 next season, that’s half your D corps and that’s more than most of the recent better teams have built their D.

The Flyers will have a bundle in cap space next July. Dead space gone, cap jumps, more young players on cheaper deals and some contracts won’t get extended. Somewhere around $20M I’m guessing.

FlyerFrank wrote:

I’m looking at the small picture on D? I’m looking at the D corps of the best teams currently and in the recent past. If Sanheim, York and Bonk can comprise the Top 6 next season, that’s half your D corps and that’s more than most of the recent better teams have built their D.

The Flyers will have a bundle in cap space next July. Dead space gone, cap jumps, more young players on cheaper deals and some contracts won’t get extended. Somewhere around $20M I’m guessing.

If you’re only looking at the D, then yes, you are not looking at the big picture.

You keep bringing up the Panthers, Oilers, and “recent better teams” as building their teams by bringing defensemen from outside the organization in. Well, if you haven’t checked, only 3 of the Flyers starting defensemen (if you’re considering the gimp Ristolainen as a starter) are home-grown talents. Despite the Flyers already “building” in the same manner as the Panthers and Oilers, they still can’t sniff the playoffs.

While I think your estimate of $20M may be a little low (based on RFA/UFAs at the end of the 2025/26 season, which I may delve into in another post at a later time), that money will dry up quickly if they choose to extend Michkov at the end of the season (the earliest they can do so), if Trevor Zegras meets or exceeds expectations, and if Drysdale finally takes a step forward. And that’s just the easiest 3 examples heading into the 2026/27 season.

You keep bringing up the Panthers, Oilers, and “recent better teams” as building their teams by bringing defensemen from outside the organization in. Well, if you haven’t checked, only 3 of the Flyers starting defensemen (if you’re considering the gimp Ristolainen as a starter) are home-grown talents. Despite the Flyers already “building” in the same manner as the Panthers and Oilers, they still can’t sniff the playoffs.

While I think your estimate of $20M may be a little low (based on RFA/UFAs at the end of the 2025/26 season, which I may delve into in another post at a later time), that money will dry up quickly if they choose to extend Michkov at the end of the season (the earliest they can do so), if Trevor Zegras meets or exceeds expectations, and if Drysdale finally takes a step forward. And that’s just the easiest 3 examples heading into the 2026/27 season.

Only three? What a catastrophe. Florida had one, Vegas had two covering the last three cups. Michkov will take some of the new surplus. Zegras is already making $5.75M. If he goes from the .75 PPG guy that got that deal to a .8 PPG guy with the Flyers, how much of a raise would he get? Drysdale needs to pull a rabbit out of a hat this season.

Baphomet wrote:

Very well said, and I tend to look at the bright side of things but it’s tough with this franchise and what we’ve been given the last dozen seasons.

Still no 1C, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1D, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1G, nor is there one in the system.

Is it scouting, drafting, or player development? or all of the above? I am in the minority about Buium however, and not because I thought Jett was the better pick/prospect. I think the history with his agent would’ve possibly had the same outcome as CG.

Jett = #1 C

Sanhiem = #1 D

Russian kid = #1 G

Get with the program.

Gold standard baby

FlyerFrank wrote:

Only three? What a catastrophe. Florida had one, Vegas had two covering the last three cups. Michkov will take some of the new surplus. Zegras is already making $5.75M. If he goes from the .75 PPG guy that got that deal to a .8 PPG guy with the Flyers, how much of a raise would he get? Drysdale needs to pull a rabbit out of a hat this season.

If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.

Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

FlyerFrank wrote:

If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.

Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

Curious as to what makes you think zegras is the 2nd safest bet to have a full and productive season. What will be a productive season for him? However, it ends up working out it was a no brainer deal to make. They gave up nothing of consequence.

Buim is also what 19/20, he can add weight if need be. That weight can also be an old measure.

Flyers do not fall into that category in bold.

FlyerFrank wrote:

If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.

Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

Your size/weight obsession is getting a little disturbing. While not a FLA panther, Stanley Cup winner and #1 dman Cale Makar is 187 lbs. Size is a plus but skill and determination are the main things and FLA is so much more than just a “big” team as i posted above.

Flyers_01 wrote:

FlyerFrank wrote:

If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.

Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

Your size/weight obsession is getting a little disturbing. While not a FLA panther, Stanley Cup winner and #1 dman Cale Makar is 187 lbs. Size is a plus but skill and determination are the main things and FLA is so much more than just a “big” team as i posted above.

him and the flyers always forget about the talent part you need to win.

FlyerFrank wrote:

<p data-userway-font-size=”13″ style=”transition: all; font-size: 16px !important;” data-userway-s4-bigger-text-styled=”true”>If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.

<p data-userway-font-size=”13″ style=”transition: all; font-size: 16px !important;” data-userway-s4-bigger-text-styled=”true”>And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).

<p data-userway-font-size=”12″ style=”transition: all; font-size: 15px !important;” data-userway-s4-bigger-text-styled=”true”>Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.

<p data-userway-font-size=”12″ style=”transition: all; font-size: 15px !important;” data-userway-s4-bigger-text-styled=”true”>Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument.

Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season

, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA…….Tippett, our 40 goal scorer that never scored 30, needed an empty net to hit 20 this year……he was outproduced by Cutter

KINGKENZO wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA…….Tippett, our 40 goal scorer that never scored 30, needed an empty net to hit 20 this year……he was outproduced by Cutter

miss that jd guy

KINGKENZO wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA…….Tippett, our 40 goal scorer that never scored 30, needed an empty net to hit 20 this year……he was outproduced by Cutter

Cutter in 1 year has scored almost double what Drysdale has in the last 2 years combined for the Flyers despite Drysdale being a 6 year vet. Torts signed off on that trade and loved him until he had to coach him. The Flyers continue to make dumb decisions.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.

Is it any different than you claiming they’ll somehow be harder to play against over and over again? Sounds like a big if to me, but since it fits your narrative, it’s okay, right?

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

Flyers4Ever wrote:

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

If your goal is to be a bubble team, then yes, that could happen. The foundation of a legit cup contender are the corner stones (esp. on those rookie contracts), which they do not have nor are they doing what is necessary to get them. The players they are getting are not building blocks, they are complementary pieces.

The Flyers FO continuously try to slap a coat of paint on the Flyers without actually fixing the foundation. This is not a slam on the players themselves but until the cornerstones are in place they will all be asked to play above their abilities and that is not a recipe for success.

Flyers_01 wrote:

Flyers4Ever wrote:

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

If your goal is to be a bubble team, then yes, that could happen. The foundation of a legit cup contender are the corner stones (esp. on those rookie contracts), which they do not have nor are they doing what is necessary to get them. The players they are getting are not building blocks, they are complementary pieces.

The Flyers FO continuously try to slap a coat of paint on the Flyers without actually fixing the foundation. This is not a slam on the players themselves but until the cornerstones are in place they will all be asked to play above their abilities and that is not a recipe for success.

the flyers do not see it that way; which is hysterical.

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

Finally, a voice of reason around here. The Flyers are within range of putting a decent, competitive team on the ice for the first time in years. A couple of the choices for opening night fixes, in G and on D, look questionable. Forwards look OK. They have 4 legitimate NHL centers and the Top 4 wingers combined for 95 goals last year. That is enough to go into this season with and hope the D and G band aids don’t fall off.

Flyers_01 wrote:

Flyers4Ever wrote:

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

If your goal is to be a bubble team, then yes, that could happen. The foundation of a legit cup contender are the cornerstones (esp. on those rookie contracts), which they do not have nor are they doing what is necessary to get them. The players they are getting are not building blocks, they are complementary pieces.

The Flyers FO continuously try to slap a coat of paint on the Flyers without actually fixing the foundation. This is not a slam on the players themselves but until the cornerstones are in place they will all be asked to play above their abilities and that is not a recipe for success.

You’re trying to put the cart before the horse, it’s not a finished product yet. They’re three drafts into a rebuilding process, it’s ridiculous to think they’re going to turn the franchise around in three drafts without having a top five pick in any of those drafts. I completely understand the frustration, I was born in the late 60’s and I’ve been following this team for a long time, quite frankly, it’s been one of the worst run franchises for the past 15 years. They’ve been unable to adapt to a cap era, they’ve always built teams primarily through deals, not drafting. You can’t make good deals if you haven’t drafted well and have some ammunition to get what you want. Even with drafting there’s no guarantees, look at the Leafs, they had some excellent players they drafted but they were way too top heavy and didn’t build a balanced “team”.

I refuse to crap all over what they’re trying to accomplish just because I’m upset with the past, it hasn’t been good, but moving forward, I’m more hopeful than I’ve been in a long time.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.

Finally, a voice of reason around here. The Flyers are within range of putting a decent, competitive team on the ice for the first time in years. A couple of the choices for opening night fixes, in G and on D, look questionable. Forwards look OK. They have 4 legitimate NHL centers and the Top 4 wingers combined for 95 goals last year. That is enough to go into this season with and hope the D and G band aids don’t fall off.

what range is that? maybe a #8 seed if all goes well.

You’re trying to put the cart before the horse, it’s not a finished product yet. They’re three drafts into a rebuilding process, it’s ridiculous to think they’re going to turn the franchise around in three drafts without having a top five pick in any of those drafts. I completely understand the frustration, I was born in the late 60’s and I’ve been following this team for a long time, quite frankly, it’s been one of the worst run franchises for the past 15 years. They’ve been unable to adapt to a cap era, they’ve always built teams primarily through deals, not drafting. You can’t make good deals if you haven’t drafted well and have some ammunition to get what you want. Even with drafting there’s no guarantees, look at the Leafs, they had some excellent players they drafted but they were way too top heavy and didn’t build a balanced “team”.

I refuse to crap all over what they’re trying to accomplish just because I’m upset with the past, it hasn’t been good, but moving forward, I’m more hopeful than I’ve been in a long time.[/quote]

what are they doing differently from the past?

Is it any different than you claiming they’ll somehow be harder to play against over and over again? Sounds like a big if to me, but since it fits your narrative, it’s okay, right?

What if Buium isn’t the next Cale Makar but is the next Jamie Drysdale? We can obviously keep tabs on all four of Buium, Perrault, Luchanko and Bonk. We’ll see how that works out but it’s a little early to claim the Flyers are terrible at drafting based on a completely made-up hypothetical future.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Is it any different than you claiming they’ll somehow be harder to play against over and over again? Sounds like a big if to me, but since it fits your narrative, it’s okay, right?

What if Buium isn’t the next Cale Makar but is the next Jamie Drysdale? We can obviously keep tabs on all four of Buium, Perrault, Luchanko and Bonk. We’ll see how that works out but it’s a little early to claim the Flyers are terrible at drafting based on a completely made-up hypothetical future.

what in flahrs track record leads you to believe he is good at drafting? what so much faith?

what in flahrs track record leads you to believe he is good at drafting? what so much faith?

It’s looks to me like they have plenty of forward prospects, and only one D prospect, who look like they will be regular NHL players. Martone, Luchanko, Nesbitt and maybe Berglund will play for the big team. Bonk will too. None of that will happen this season, but it’s on the way.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

what are they doing differently from the past?

Better utilizing the draft. They’ve had 12 picks in the past three drafts in rounds 1 & 2, including five first round picks. Are they going to hit on every one of those, obviously not, but they’re setting themselves up for better odds by acquiring more picks. They still need a top 3 pick, or two, which they haven’t had, unfortunately. That’s where you start the process. It’s also the most picks they’ve had in rounds 1 & 2 during any three year stretch in their history. I’m hopeful that trend continues.

FlyerFrank wrote:

What if Buium isn’t the next Cale Makar but is the next Jamie Drysdale? We can obviously keep tabs on all four of Buium, Perrault, Luchanko and Bonk. We’ll see how that works out but it’s a little early to claim the Flyers are terrible at drafting based on a completely made-up hypothetical future.

Everything I say is hypothetical, yet you repeat ad nauseam that every player drafted a few months ago, kids who have yet to play an NHL game, will automatically make the Flyers tougher to play against?

Think I’ll go talk to a wall. I’m sure it will be a far more intelligent conversation.

FlyerFrank wrote:

It’s looks to me like they have plenty of forward prospects, and only one D prospect, who look like they will be regular NHL players. Martone, Luchanko, Nesbitt and maybe Berglund will play for the big team. Bonk will too. None of that will happen this season, but it’s on the way.

Is this a fact, or just your hypothesis?

See what I did there?

Think I’ll go talk to a wall. I’m sure it will be a far more intelligent conversation.

Hahaha. Why, because I haven’t bought into every non-sensical anti-Flyers cliche you have? Here are a couple pro tips for you:

1. Wanting a team that doesn’t get pushed around like a bunch of shopping carts and, possibly, pushes the other team around, doesn’t mean skill doesn’t matter or that we should all time travel back to the 70s for that old time hockey.

2. Every smallish, amateur Dman with some offensive skills is not the next Erik Karlsson. Actually, playing defense still matters.

Flyers4Ever wrote:

You’re trying to put the cart before the horse, it’s not a finished product yet. They’re three drafts into a rebuilding process, it’s ridiculous to think they’re going to turn the franchise around in three drafts without having a top five pick in any of those drafts. I completely understand the frustration, I was born in the late 60’s and I’ve been following this team for a long time, quite frankly, it’s been one of the worst run franchises for the past 15 years. They’ve been unable to adapt to a cap era, they’ve always built teams primarily through deals, not drafting. You can’t make good deals if you haven’t drafted well and have some ammunition to get what you want. Even with drafting there’s no guarantees, look at the Leafs, they had some excellent players they drafted but they were way too top heavy and didn’t build a balanced “team”.

I refuse to crap all over what they’re trying to accomplish just because I’m upset with the past, it hasn’t been good, but moving forward, I’m more hopeful than I’ve been in a long time.

Briere : “I think we’re at a stage now where we’re going to shift a little bit from subtracting from the roster into trying to start to add and help the team”

If you aren’t going to have a top 5 pick, let alone multiple top 5 picks in the first couple years of a stated rebuild, then when do you expect the Flyers to get them? Especially after they announce they are moving onto the next phase, buying players.

Chicago drafted their (probable) #1 center and #1 dman, SJ drafted their (probable) #1 center and #1 dman, etc. Nobody is calling them finished products, these players and teams are years from being finished products. But they’ve started the clock. They have their building blocks, now they just need to build around them. Just because the Flyers refuse to make the hard decisions doesn’t mean it’s not something fans shouldn’t expect from a competent front office.

The Flyers haven’t had a top 5 pick because the front office doesn’t want one. Hell they were embarrassed to be as bad as they were last year because as Jonesy said “We’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.” Just the year before they almost made the playoffs (despite not beating a division opponent for 3 consecutive months in an historically easy year to win the 8th spot). That’s why they panicked and bribed Fedotov to come over.

The Flyers are skipping step 1. They are drafting the people to support the corner stones, which they don’t have nor do they have a plan to acquire.

Why does it always come down to a “guarantee” when there is no defense for the flyers roster building? If you can’t “guarantee” a cup, the Flyers shouldn’t draft an Austin Matthews or Connor McDavid or Cale Makar or Sidney Crosby or Barkov or Ekblad, etc. Who needs them, amirite?

Winning the Stanley cup takes more than just talent but make no mistake, it does take talent. The kind of talent you can’t buy in FA.

Flyers4Ever wrote:

yes its me 2050 wrote:

what are they doing differently from the past?

Better utilizing the draft. They’ve had 12 picks in the past three drafts in rounds 1 & 2, including five first round picks. Are they going to hit on every one of those, obviously not, but they’re setting themselves up for better odds by acquiring more picks. They still need a top 3 pick, or two, which they haven’t had, unfortunately. That’s where you start the process. It’s also the most picks they’ve had in rounds 1 & 2 during any three year stretch in their history. I’m hopeful that trend continues.

I am not seeing anything all that different. They accumulated picks because they have been so bad. They will not get a top 3 pick by design; not much has been accomplished by design. That is the problem.

Look at the players they have taken in those rounds. Vanilla as can be with all pretty much having the same skillset. That will not get you anywhere. All depth/complimentary types if they pan out.

The Flyers are skipping step 1. They are drafting the people to support the corner stones, which they don’t have nor do they have a plan to acquire.

In the last four drafts, the Flyers have had five picks in the Top 13. With them, they got Drysdale (for all practical purposes), Michkov, Luchanko, Martone, Nesbitt. Players picked that high have about a 90% shot at becoming NHL regulars. Yes, the return on Gauthier is looking bad but I don’t see how anyone can complain about the picks now. Below those picks, they’ve grabbed Bonk, Zavgarin, Bump and a few others who could become regulars, not just guys who will get a few games in. They already have some good pieces in place, including one of those Top 13 draft picks.

FlyerFrank wrote:

The Flyers are skipping step 1. They are drafting the people to support the corner stones, which they don’t have nor do they have a plan to acquire.

In the last four drafts, the Flyers have had five picks in the Top 13. With them, they got Drysdale (for all practical purposes), Michkov, Luchanko, Martone, Nesbitt. Players picked that high have about a 90% shot at becoming NHL regulars. Yes, the return on Gauthier is looking bad but I don’t see how anyone can complain about the picks now. Below those picks, they’ve grabbed Bonk, Zavgarin, Bump and a few others who could become regulars, not just guys who will get a few games in. They already have some good pieces in place, including one of those Top 13 draft picks.

Nobody said that they didn’t pick players who couldn’t turn out to be NHL regulars, all complementary players are NHL regulars. Michkov is already on his way to being a very good player, the rest we’ll see. Jett over Buium is probably not great. Bonk over Perrault is probably not great.

Where are the Barkov, Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Makar, Sidney Crosby, McDavid, etc players? The clock doesn’t start ticking on a rebuild until you have them because you want the team to peak during those cornerstone players primes. You build around them, not the other way around.

Will they be better than the current team eventually, yes. Will they be more than a bubble team with these players, not likely but I feel Flyers fans have made making the playoffs their version of the Stanley Cup because they have been beaten down so much.

Where are the Barkov, Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Makar, Sidney Crosby, McDavid, etc players?

The only reason you’re mentioning Barkov and Ekblad in the same breath as Crosby and McDavid is because they have Cups. Barkov is a Top 10 center in the league, not sure Ekblad is currently a Top 10 Dman but he’s close enough. FLA scored big with #1 and #2 overall picks more than a decade ago but it wasn’t until Zito came on that Florida became a legit contender and now 2-time champs. Barkov and Ekblad have good size, don’t get pushed around. Ekblad is a mean defender.

FlyerFrank wrote:

The only reason you’re mentioning Barkov and Ekblad in the same breath as Crosby and McDavid is because they have Cups. Barkov is a Top 10 center in the league, not sure Ekblad is currently a Top 10 Dman but he’s close enough. FLA scored big with #1 and #2 overall picks more than a decade ago but it wasn’t until Zito came on that Florida became a legit contender and now 2-time champs. Barkov and Ekblad have good size, don’t get pushed around. Ekblad is a mean defender.

Which is exactly what the Flyers need to do. Thank you.

Zito putting it all together for the Panthers doesn’t diminish that the team was built around those 2 anchors and it took many years after they were drafted to get where they are. The Flyers haven’t even drafted those players. The clock hasn’t even started on an actual rebuild.

Zito putting it all together for the Panthers doesn’t diminish that the team was built around those 2 anchors and it took many years after they were drafted to get where they are. The Flyers haven’t even drafted those players. The clock hasn’t even started on an actual rebuild.

It certainly could happen that the Flyers miss the playoffs again this year, they win the lottery and draft McKenna or finish badly enough to pull a rabbit out of a hat with another 13th or higher pick. We went through all the recent Cup winners, and while they’ve all built their teams a bit differently, they were all built solidly, deep, good sized and a bit nasty.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Zito putting it all together for the Panthers doesn’t diminish that the team was built around those 2 anchors and it took many years after they were drafted to get where they are. The Flyers haven’t even drafted those players. The clock hasn’t even started on an actual rebuild.

It certainly could happen that the Flyers miss the playoffs again this year, they win the lottery and draft McKenna or finish badly enough to pull a rabbit out of a hat with another 13th or higher pick. We went through all the recent Cup winners, and while they’ve all built their teams a bit differently, they were all built solidly, deep, good sized and a bit nasty.

flyers will easily 99.9% miss the playoffs. flyers have nothing in common with the any recent cup winners.

flyers strategy is completely flawed on how to build a team.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

flyers will easily 99.9% miss the playoffs. flyers have nothing in common with the any recent cup winners.

flyers strategy is completely flawed on how to build a team.

The Flyers continue to build on a foundation of quicksand and are always scratching their heads and are always surprised at the results.

Flyers_01 wrote:

yes its me 2050 wrote:

flyers will easily 99.9% miss the playoffs. flyers have nothing in common with the any recent cup winners.

flyers strategy is completely flawed on how to build a team.

The Flyers continue to build on a foundation of quicksand and are always scratching their heads and are always surprised at the results.

I really wonder how long a leash danny boy will have at the helm.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

FlyerFrank wrote:

Zito putting it all together for the Panthers doesn’t diminish that the team was built around those 2 anchors and it took many years after they were drafted to get where they are. The Flyers haven’t even drafted those players. The clock hasn’t even started on an actual rebuild.

It certainly could happen that the Flyers miss the playoffs again this year, they win the lottery and draft McKenna or finish badly enough to pull a rabbit out of a hat with another 13th or higher pick. We went through all the recent Cup winners, and while they’ve all built their teams a bit differently, they were all built solidly, deep, good sized and a bit nasty.

flyers will easily 99.9% miss the playoffs. flyers have nothing in common with the any recent cup winners.

flyers strategy is completely flawed on how to build a team.

I hope they miss the playoffs for the next three years, and continue to sell off players to acquire picks at the deadline, that’s how you rebuild through the draft. You lose, a lot! San Jose is gonna be an absolute wagon of a team, they’re losing a lot, but drafting really well…be the Sharks!!

who they going to sell off?

Flyers4Ever wrote:

I hope they miss the playoffs for the next three years, and continue to sell off players to acquire picks at the deadline, that’s how you rebuild through the draft. You lose, a lot! San Jose is gonna be an absolute wagon of a team, they’re losing a lot, but drafting really well…be the Sharks!!

DB already announced that they are in buyer mode so i wouldn’t count on it.

DB already announced that they are in buyer mode so i wouldn’t count on it.

The Flyers are in buyer mode until they aren’t. They won’t be buying this trade deadline even if all the band aids hold, they catch some lucky breaks and they are in playoff contention.

FlyerFrank wrote:

DB already announced that they are in buyer mode so i wouldn’t count on it.

The Flyers are in buyer mode until they aren’t. They won’t be buying this trade deadline even if all the band aids hold, they catch some lucky breaks and they are in playoff contention.

they can 100% be buyers if it fits longer term; as they should. they have very little to sell.

if they are in the playoff “mix” I can easily see them buying to an extent and moving out some picks/prospects (not their “high” end ones)

they can 100% be buyers if it fits longer term; as they should. they have very little to sell.

if they are in the playoff “mix” I can easily see them buying to an extent and moving out some picks/prospects (not their “high” end ones)

Forwards develop faster. They’re within a year or two of having some surplus players to put a decent trade package together. They’ve got plenty of forward prospects. Likely more than enough will develop to fill any holes and the remainder becomes trade bait. This is clearly the plan. Still not sure how it’s a problem.

FlyerFrank wrote:

they can 100% be buyers if it fits longer term; as they should. they have very little to sell.

if they are in the playoff “mix” I can easily see them buying to an extent and moving out some picks/prospects (not their “high” end ones)

Forwards develop faster. They’re within a year or two of having some surplus players to put a decent trade package together. They’ve got plenty of forward prospects. Likely more than enough will develop to fill any holes and the remainder becomes trade bait. This is clearly the plan. Still not sure how it’s a problem.

quantity is not greater than quality. majority are of the vanilla variety. nothing special. every team has those types. you act like all these picks will turn into nhl players. majority will not. flyers have shown the do not trade their “prospects”. do they ever sell high on someone they drafted?

there is no plan.

quantity is not greater than quality. majority are of the vanilla variety. nothing special. every team has those types. you act like all these picks will turn into nhl players. majority will not. flyers have shown the do not trade their “prospects”. do they ever sell high on someone they drafted?

there is no plan.

You only have to fill so many roster spots. You don’t need to have every prospect turn into a “special” player. Michkov already is, and Martone will deliver. That’s two out of those five Top 13 picks. Should Luckanko and Nesbitt become adequate regulars in their roles, that’s a plenty good result. Drysdale, the vaunted “puck-moving” defenseman, is gonna Drysdale.

FlyerFrank wrote:

quantity is not greater than quality. majority are of the vanilla variety. nothing special. every team has those types. you act like all these picks will turn into nhl players. majority will not. flyers have shown the do not trade their “prospects”. do they ever sell high on someone they drafted?

there is no plan.

You only have to fill so many roster spots. You don’t need to have every prospect turn into a “special” player. Michkov already is, and Martone will deliver. That’s two out of those five Top 13 picks. Should Luckanko and Nesbitt become adequate regulars in their roles, that’s a plenty good result. Drysdale, the vaunted “puck-moving” defenseman, is gonna Drysdale.

no MM is not a special player at this time. he may be in the future. what will martone deliver?

those results will not be good enough. adequate will not be good enough. not sure why you can’t see that.

no MM is not a special player at this time. he may be in the future. what will martone deliver?

those results will not be good enough. adequate will not be good enough. not sure why you can’t see that.

There’s always a chance Michkov could get injured. He scored 26 goals in the best league in the world at 19-20. He should top that at 20-21. He has better offense around him. There’s no reason to think Martone can’t do roughly the same. They’ll both be among the top 4 goal scorers on this team soon enough. It’s not elite offensive skill the Flyers lack. The top 4 goal scorers last year with CAR and FLA had 103 and 106. The Flyers had 95 with some upside on the way. It’s overall team D, the defensemen and the goaltending that need to get better now. If you want to complain, not sure why you aren’t complaining about that. If things don’t go much better defensively, it’s another tanked season. Keeping it vague and superficial I guess.

With the acquisition of Trevor Zegras, there’s also a good chance the Flyers found stability at center.

The finesse/skill guy seeking redemption story arc hasn’t exactly played out well historically here… VLC, Sam Gagner, Zherdev, Hayes, Filppula, Daigle, Nedved, etc were all chewed up and spit back out. Zegras has more stick skill than all of those guys but there’s still a better chance he bombs here than not.

@ yes its me 2050

I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how it all plays out. For me they are headed down the right direction, you just have to continually build until you get the right combination of players, that’s a slow process. The Oilers had what, five 1st overall picks and they still haven’t won the Cup. From 2010 to 2015, inclusive, Florida drafted 3rd, 23rd, 2nd, 1st & 11th overall and it still took them eleven years after they drafted Barkov 2nd overall to get the right combo of players and coach. I hope I’m right and you’re wrong. They need to draft a #1 center though, or trade for one. All that being said, this is nowhere near a finished product, they just started.

The Oilers have been in the Stanley Cup final the last 2 years though so they are contenders. They just need to be better at building the rest of their roster to get over the hump. This keeps getting lost as it seems everyone wants instant gratification. Drafting the corner stone player starts the process, it doesn’t finish it. You don’t draft someone and think that the next year you are going to win a Stanley Cup. It will be years after the player is drafted and even then there is no guarantee. It takes sacrifice from the team to be able to draft those players. Do people think the Flyers, in a year or 2, are going to draft a McDavid or Crosby in the 2nd or 3rd round and the Flyers will be good to go? Lol

Also, let’s be clear, DB thought the Flyers roster was on the upswing last year before they pooped the bed. He spent the last 2 years getting rid of players Torts didn’t like and getting players he did before Torts gave him the 2 fingered salute on the way out of town. He’s announced they are done getting rid of players and are now in buy mode. For all those vaunted draft picks and rumors that the Flyers had plenty of ammo to move up to get a franchise player, it was never going to happen. Teams just don’t trade away the shot to get the franchise player who could be a corner stone for 20 years for quantity.

DB doesn’t know how to build a quality team but he’s got one of the best PR firms in the world with Comcast backstopping him. And unlike Fletcher, he’s media friendly so that buys him time. You don’t think he’s going to Fletcher this team and “bias for action” as soon as he has money especially after announcing their in buy mode? They are capped out now and will be capped out next year when DB is done. He may or may not make better choices than Fletcher but one thing is for sure true franchise centers and true franchise defensemen hitting FA are about as rare as top 3 draft picks being traded.

FlyerFrank wrote:

no MM is not a special player at this time. he may be in the future. what will martone deliver?

those results will not be good enough. adequate will not be good enough. not sure why you can’t see that.

There’s always a chance Michkov could get injured. He scored 26 goals in the best league in the world at 19-20. He should top that at 20-21. He has better offense around him. There’s no reason to think Martone can’t do roughly the same. They’ll both be among the top 4 goal scorers on this team soon enough. It’s not elite offensive skill the Flyers lack. The top 4 goal scorers last year with CAR and FLA had 103 and 106. The Flyers had 95 with some upside on the way. It’s overall team D, the defensemen and the goaltending that need to get better now. If you want to complain, not sure why you aren’t complaining about that. If things don’t go much better defensively, it’s another tanked season. Keeping it vague and superficial I guess.

has nothing to do with getting injured. right now, he is not a special player. not sure why that is hard to accept at the moment.

Martone will also be a special player? is that what you’re saying?

who give a shit if they are in the top 4 scoring on a shit team. means less than nothing.

yes, the flyers lack elite offensive skill. to say otherwise is mind boggling. you really really overrate the flyers forwards.

the entire team needs to get better not just the goalies and defenseman.

the entire team needs to get better not just the goalies and defenseman.

You claim the Flyers top goal scorers aren’t “needle movers” or “special” yet their production is close enough to the top goal scorers on the two teams that went to the conference finals in the East with upside on the way. This team will be fun to watch this year even if the D and G band aids don’t work as well as hoped. Worst case scenario: Dump at the deadline for more future assets and you still have your own Top 16 pick.

FlyerFrank wrote:

the entire team needs to get better not just the goalies and defenseman.

You claim the Flyers top goal scorers aren’t “needle movers” or “special” yet their production is close enough to the top goal scorers on the two teams that went to the conference finals in the East with upside on the way. This team will be fun to watch this year even if the D and G band aids don’t work as well as hoped. Worst case scenario: Dump at the deadline for more future assets and you still have your own Top 16 pick.

no need to claim. it’s a fact. you need to really stop comparing the flyers to top teams. its laughable.

yeah fun to watch. such a high-octane offense. can’t wait to be entertained.

who are they dumping at the deadline? wow that top 16 pick will franchise altering.

no need to claim. it’s a fact. you need to really stop comparing the flyers to top teams. its laughable.

yeah fun to watch. such a high-octane offense. can’t wait to be entertained.

who are they dumping at the deadline? wow that top 16 pick will franchise altering.

The difference between how the top teams play, especially FLA, is the biggest difference between them and the Flyers. FLA supports the puck like a pack of demons. The Flyers do not. Supporting the puck isn’t some elite “needle-moving” skill only Top 5 overall draft picks can master. You should watch the regular season and playoff games closely this year. You might learn something about NHL hockey.

Dvorak and possibly Risto could get them picks if it comes to that.

FlyerFrank wrote:

no need to claim. it’s a fact. you need to really stop comparing the flyers to top teams. its laughable.

yeah fun to watch. such a high-octane offense. can’t wait to be entertained.

who are they dumping at the deadline? wow that top 16 pick will franchise altering.

The difference between how the top teams play, especially FLA, is the biggest difference between them and the Flyers. FLA supports the puck like a pack of demons. The Flyers do not. Supporting the puck isn’t some elite “needle-moving” skill only Top 5 overall draft picks can master. You should watch the regular season and playoff games closely this year. You might learn something about NHL hockey.

Dvorak and possibly Risto could get them picks if it comes to that.

in bold is so comical. yep, not a big talent discrepancy at all.

yeah, maybe I will watch. then I can possibly learn. my guess it will tell me the same thing. flyers are 2000 lightyears away from any point of contention.

that is a truckload of players to move out. flyers can really set themselves up for the future by moving those 2. they have zero interest in moving RR. I hope they re-sign him. shit hope they re-sgin dvorak as well.

in bold is so comical. yep, not a big talent discrepancy at all.

yeah, maybe I will watch. then I can possibly learn. my guess it will tell me the same thing. flyers are 2000 lightyears away from any point of contention.

that is a truckload of players to move out. flyers can really set themselves up for the future by moving those 2. they have zero interest in moving RR. I hope they re-sign him. shit hope they re-sgin dvorak as well.

Yeah, there is a big talent discrepancy too. FLA’s sixth highest scoring forward was Anton Lundell. For the Flyers, it’s Bobby Brink. Talented team or not, you get the best possible results playing the game the right way. The Flyers have to get that right and I’m pretty confident in Tocchet and staff’s chances of making that happen.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

in bold is so comical. yep, not a big talent discrepancy at all.

yeah, maybe I will watch. then I can possibly learn. my guess it will tell me the same thing. flyers are 2000 lightyears away from any point of contention.

that is a truckload of players to move out. flyers can really set themselves up for the future by moving those 2. they have zero interest in moving RR. I hope they re-sign him. shit hope they re-sgin dvorak as well.

The Flyers are just going to outwork everyone to the Stanley Cup, talent be damned. That’s the message Torts and the Flyers have been peddling the last 3 years. It’s crazy how the Flyers and their fans are the only people who know this secret. That’s why they’ve been so successful. Just don’t let the rest of the league know.

::facepalm::

The Flyers are just going to outwork everyone to the Stanley Cup, talent be damned.

Yes, that’s the answer. Make the Ice Capades fans happy with lots of “puck moving” defensemen and highly skilled, speedy forwards who weigh less than most of the players on the US Women’s National Team. That’s a sure formula for a Cup win.

FlyerFrank wrote:

The Flyers are just going to outwork everyone to the Stanley Cup, talent be damned.

Yes, that’s the answer. Make the Ice Capades fans happy with lots of “puck moving” defensemen and highly skilled, speedy forwards who weigh less than most of the players on the US Women’s National Team. That’s a sure formula for a Cup win.

the flyers formula is a way not to win a cup. 100% verified. but hey those big players the flyers drafted in 2025 will get them over the top in 3 years.

the flyers formula is a way not to win a cup. 100% verified. but hey those big players the flyers drafted in 2025 will get them over the top in 3 years.

You can come out of the fallout shelter now. The bad Chuck and Hexy days are over.

FlyerFrank wrote:

The Flyers are just going to outwork everyone to the Stanley Cup, talent be damned.

Yes, that’s the answer. Make the Ice Capades fans happy with lots of “puck moving” defensemen and highly skilled, speedy forwards who weigh less than most of the players on the US Women’s National Team. That’s a sure formula for a Cup win.

How about instead working off of a false premise that talent and hard work are mutually exclusive we agree that it takes talent and hard work to win the Stanley Cup?

Connor McDavid may be 6’1″ but he weighs 194, only a few more lbs than Buium and far less than your 200 lb minimum criteria to be on a cup team. Are those 6 lbs why the oilers didn’t win the cup last year? If he was only 5’11 do you not draft him because he’s not 6′ despite his amazing talent?

If you want amazing talent in a 6′ + frame, there’s only one place to get it, the top of the draft, where the Flyers refuse to go.

Barkov never hit UFA. Ekblad never hit UFA, Crosby never hit UFA, McKinnon never hit UFA, and so on and so on. Even Tkatchuk, had to both refuse to sign with the team and another top 5 pick player willing to go to Calgary for the types of players the Flyers do not have. Where do you think the Flyers are going to get these types of Stanley Cup players?

Despite your complaints that the Flyers just need to work harder, that’s exactly what the Flyers have been focusing on the last 3 years. The result :

https://www.nhl.com/news/philadelphia-flyers-relieve-john-tortorella-of-his-duties-as-head-coach

FlyerFrank wrote:

the flyers formula is a way not to win a cup. 100% verified. but hey those big players the flyers drafted in 2025 will get them over the top in 3 years.

You can come out of the fallout shelter now. The bad Chuck and Hexy days are over.

danny boy has this franchise on the right path. he played the game, got wharton certificate. learned under chuck. they are in good hands. just look at the results since he took over. how can one not be impressed.

wonder if he will still be the GM when/if those 2025 draft picks arrive. will tocchet still be the coach.

Connor McDavid may be 6’1″ but he weighs 194, only a few more lbs than Buium and far less than your 200 lb minimum criteria to be on a cup team. Are those 6 lbs why the oilers didn’t win the cup last year? If he was only 5’11 do you not draft him because he’s not 6′ despite his amazing talent?

McDavid isn’t a defenseman either. It was awesome how all those 170 pound FLA Dmen were able to contain McD though. It’ll be interesting to see how Buium fits in Minnesota. The Flyers already had Drysdale for that role, I know that was a bad return in a bad spot, and needed a center more. The draft is done. Luchanko might still make the team this year. The Flyers can still use another guy who can play center.

FlyerFrank wrote:

McDavid isn’t a defenseman either. It was awesome how all those 170 pound FLA Dmen were able to contain McD though. It’ll be interesting to see how Buium fits in Minnesota. The Flyers already had Drysdale for that role, I know that was a bad return in a bad spot, and needed a center more. The draft is done. Luchanko might still make the team this year. The Flyers can still use another guy who can play center.

Never said he was. Your arguments are a bit all over the place. So do you not care about size of forwards now? Is it the size on defense that contained McDavid or was it the defense backchecking like demons? Backchecking is not dependent on being huge. The puck is at ice level for everyone. Does skill matter at all in your world or is everyone Nick Seeler in a 6′ 200lb frame? It seems your position seems to change depending on the post.

Luchanko will definately make the team this year. Ready or not. Look how bad he was last year and they still tried to force him onto the roster. If he didn’t poop the bed so bad he might’ve gotten his 10 games in at least. It’s not like he had a stellar training camp either.

The Flyers could use a franchise center, franchise dman, and franchise goalie. You still haven’t addressed how the Flyers are going to acquire those necessary pieces.

Imagine Sanheim only having to be your #2 or #3 dman. Imagine Coots as your #2 center and Luchanko as your #3 center. Imagine, because that’s the only place you see the Flyers as a good team.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Connor McDavid may be 6’1″ but he weighs 194, only a few more lbs than Buium and far less than your 200 lb minimum criteria to be on a cup team. Are those 6 lbs why the oilers didn’t win the cup last year? If he was only 5’11 do you not draft him because he’s not 6′ despite his amazing talent?

McDavid isn’t a defenseman either. It was awesome how all those 170 pound FLA Dmen were able to contain McD though. It’ll be interesting to see how Buium fits in Minnesota. The Flyers already had Drysdale for that role, I know that was a bad return in a bad spot, and needed a center more. The draft is done. Luchanko might still make the team this year. The Flyers can still use another guy who can play center.

lol

Never said he was. Your arguments are a bit all over the place. So do you not care about size of forwards now? Is it the size on defense that contained McDavid or was it the defense backchecking like demons? Backchecking is not dependent on being huge. The puck is at ice level for everyone. Does skill matter at all in your world or is everyone Nick Seeler in a 6′ 200lb frame? It seems your position seems to change depending on the post.

Luchanko will definately make the team this year. Ready or not. Look how bad he was last year and they still tried to force him onto the roster. If he didn’t poop the bed so bad he might’ve gotten his 10 games in at least. It’s not like he had a stellar training camp either.

The Flyers could use a franchise center, franchise dman, and franchise goalie. You still haven’t addressed how the Flyers are going to acquire those necessary pieces.

Imagine Sanheim only having to be your #2 or #3 dman. Imagine Coots as your #2 center and Luchanko as your #3 center. Imagine, because that’s the only place you see the Flyers as a good team.

Size matters but exceptional players are exceptions. Is Bobby Brink an exceptional player? I don’t think he is. The center situation is a little better this year and a man deeper with Luchanko if he can pull it off. If not, they might have to scramble at 4C if there’s a long injury or Tocchet just wants to work both Cates and Dvorak into the top 9. If Zegras gets back to a .7 or so PPG level, he’s your number one center. I think he can do a little better. The D still needs work. There are only so many guys in the league that are better than Sanheim. It’s not that long a list.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Never said he was. Your arguments are a bit all over the place. So do you not care about size of forwards now? Is it the size on defense that contained McDavid or was it the defense backchecking like demons? Backchecking is not dependent on being huge. The puck is at ice level for everyone. Does skill matter at all in your world or is everyone Nick Seeler in a 6′ 200lb frame? It seems your position seems to change depending on the post.

Luchanko will definately make the team this year. Ready or not. Look how bad he was last year and they still tried to force him onto the roster. If he didn’t poop the bed so bad he might’ve gotten his 10 games in at least. It’s not like he had a stellar training camp either.

The Flyers could use a franchise center, franchise dman, and franchise goalie. You still haven’t addressed how the Flyers are going to acquire those necessary pieces.

Imagine Sanheim only having to be your #2 or #3 dman. Imagine Coots as your #2 center and Luchanko as your #3 center. Imagine, because that’s the only place you see the Flyers as a good team.

Size matters but exceptional players are exceptions. Is Bobby Brink an exceptional player? I don’t think he is. The center situation is a little better this year and a man deeper with Luchanko if he can pull it off. If not, they might have to scramble at 4C if there’s a long injury or Tocchet just wants to work both Cates and Dvorak into the top 9. If Zegras gets back to a .7 or so PPG level, he’s your number one center. I think he can do a little better. The D still needs work. There are only so many guys in the league that are better than Sanheim. It’s not that long a list.

where do you see dvorak playing in this lineup?

where do you see dvorak playing in this lineup?

If you want the most talent in your top 9, he plays 3C behind Zegras and Couturier with Cates flipping to wing. I’d do that. Can’t say what Tocchet will do.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Size matters but exceptional players are exceptions. Is Bobby Brink an exceptional player? I don’t think he is. The center situation is a little better this year and a man deeper with Luchanko if he can pull it off. If not, they might have to scramble at 4C if there’s a long injury or Tocchet just wants to work both Cates and Dvorak into the top 9. If Zegras gets back to a .7 or so PPG level, he’s your number one center. I think he can do a little better. The D still needs work. There are only so many guys in the league that are better than Sanheim. It’s not that long a list.

I highly doubt Brink is going to be an exceptional player. He’s also 5’8″. Buium (6′, 185), who you discount based on size/weight is not small by any measure. He is the same size/weight as other cup winning defensemen such as Makar and appears to have the traits and resume of an exceptional future player, Jett does not. Jett, who is smaller (5’11”) and lighter (180) has the resume a “born to be a flyer” player. Oh no, he fails every metric you declared for being hard to play against and yet you ignore it.

I highly doubt Brink is going to be an exceptional player. He’s also 5’8″. Buium (6′, 185), who you discount based on size/weight is not small by any measure. He is the same size/weight as other cup winning defensemen such as Makar and appears to have the traits and resume of an exceptional future player, Jett does not. Jett, who is smaller (5’11”) and lighter (180) has the resume a “born to be a flyer” player. Oh no, he fails every metric you declared for being hard to play against and yet you ignore it.

Hahahaha! I’m not discounting Buium. He may prove to be a great fit in MIN but you’re trashing the team over them selecting Luchanko over Buium when neither has proved anything in the pros . .. oh wait, Luchanko was pretty good in the playoffs for LHV. They were both drafted high enough, they should both have a 90% chance of being NHL regulars. We already have the Buium type Dman here and I would rather have a center than a duplicate of that. This is not complicated.

FlyerFrank wrote:

I highly doubt Brink is going to be an exceptional player. He’s also 5’8″. Buium (6′, 185), who you discount based on size/weight is not small by any measure. He is the same size/weight as other cup winning defensemen such as Makar and appears to have the traits and resume of an exceptional future player, Jett does not. Jett, who is smaller (5’11”) and lighter (180) has the resume a “born to be a flyer” player. Oh no, he fails every metric you declared for being hard to play against and yet you ignore it.

Hahahaha! I’m not discounting Buium. He may prove to be a great fit in MIN but you’re trashing the team over them selecting Luchanko over Buium when neither has proved anything in the pros . .. oh wait, Luchanko was pretty good in the playoffs for LHV. They were both drafted high enough, they should both have a 90% chance of being NHL regulars. We already have the Buium type Dman here and I would rather have a center than a duplicate of that. This is not complicated.

meanwhile Buium was playing in the NHL playoffs.

no they do not have a buium type player on the roster or system.

meanwhile Buium was playing in the NHL playoffs.

no they do not have a buium type player on the roster or system.

He got into 4 out of 6 games and was a minus player in a losing effort to Vegas. I’m not trashing the guy. He’ll be an NHL regular. Luchanko had 6 points in 7 AHL playoff games. Of course, just a reminder, the Flyers didn’t make the NHL playoffs.

FlyerFrank wrote:

meanwhile Buium was playing in the NHL playoffs.

no they do not have a buium type player on the roster or system.

He got into 4 out of 6 games and was a minus player in a losing effort to Vegas. I’m not trashing the guy. He’ll be an NHL regular. Luchanko had 6 points in 7 AHL playoff games. Of course, just a reminder, the Flyers didn’t make the NHL playoffs.

nhl playoffs > ahl playoffs. no matter what spin you try to put on it

nhl playoffs > ahl playoffs. no matter what spin you try to put on it

Really??!! Shocking. Less than a month and we’ll see some pre-season games see how the team shakes out. You should be able to watch most Wild games on the NHL Network. Enjoy!

Can’t wait for preseason. Here “boosh” and the rest talk up Macdonald, vlader, and the rest of the irrelevant players.

How this year is different. How geat tocchet will be for this team. A new era of orange

FlyerFrank wrote:

Hahahaha! I’m not discounting Buium. He may prove to be a great fit in MIN but you’re trashing the team over them selecting Luchanko over Buium when neither has proved anything in the pros . .. oh wait, Luchanko was pretty good in the playoffs for LHV. They were both drafted high enough, they should both have a 90% chance of being NHL regulars. We already have the Buium type Dman here and I would rather have a center than a duplicate of that. This is not complicated.

I am not discounting Luchanko as a player, just as the BPA when the Flyers drafted. Buium was a consensus steal at a position of critical need, outside of the Flyers war room. They even traded out of their spot to avoid taking him. This has the making of when the Eagles selected Reagor over Justin Jefferson because Raegor was a better fit despite JJ being the consensus better talent. Roseman publicly admitted that after that embarrassing screwup he switched from drafting for fit to BPA and it’s worked out pretty well for him. God forbid the Flyers learn anything from the Eagles.

Jett playing in a few AHL playoff games has no bearing on his NHL potential or career. Hopefully he has improved from the shitshow he was when they tried to force him onto the roster last year. The Flyers need him to pan out but even if he does. When does the actual rebuild start? Still no #1 Center, #1 D, #1 goalie. Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

Jett playing in a few AHL playoff games has no bearing on his NHL potential or career. Hopefully he has improved from the shitshow he was when they tried to force him onto the roster last year. The Flyers need him to pan out but even if he does. When does the actual rebuild start? Still no #1 Center, #1 D, #1 goalie. Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

Then neither does Buium’s 4 inconsequential playoff games where he chipped in one PP assist. Six points in 7 AHL playoff games at 18 is still nothing to turn your nose up at. Zegras is the 1C, Sanheim is the 1D until further notice. Zegras has to get back to the .75 PPG offensive level and surpass it at least a little. There aren’t that many defensemen in the league better than Sanheim. There are about 225 NHL defensemen in any given season. How many are better than Sanheim? I see Top 20 lists without Sanheim on it, but I wouldn’t trade him straight up for some guys I see there.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Then neither does Buium’s 4 inconsequential playoff games where he chipped in one PP assist. Six points in 7 AHL playoff games at 18 is still nothing to turn your nose up at. Zegras is the 1C, Sanheim is the 1D until further notice. Zegras has to get back to the .75 PPG offensive level and surpass it at least a little. There aren’t that many defensemen in the league better than Sanheim. There are about 225 NHL defensemen in any given season. How many are better than Sanheim? I see Top 20 lists without Sanheim on it, but I wouldn’t trade him straight up for some guys I see there.

FWIW, recently saw a fantasy hockey list where Sanheim was listed at #61 (his average ranking) with his highest ranking being #55. Seems about right to me… on a good team, he’s a 2 at best.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Jett playing in a few AHL playoff games has no bearing on his NHL potential or career. Hopefully he has improved from the shitshow he was when they tried to force him onto the roster last year. The Flyers need him to pan out but even if he does. When does the actual rebuild start? Still no #1 Center, #1 D, #1 goalie. Rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

Then neither does Buium’s 4 inconsequential playoff games where he chipped in one PP assist. Six points in 7 AHL playoff games at 18 is still nothing to turn your nose up at. Zegras is the 1C, Sanheim is the 1D until further notice. Zegras has to get back to the .75 PPG offensive level and surpass it at least a little. There aren’t that many defensemen in the league better than Sanheim. There are about 225 NHL defensemen in any given season. How many are better than Sanheim? I see Top 20 lists without Sanheim on it, but I wouldn’t trade him straight up for some guys I see there.

Just so Im clear here, you aren’t actually comparing AHL playoff games to NHL playoff games are you? They aren’t even in the same realm of reality.

As for Zegras, its not even a guarantee he stays at center.

FWIW, recently saw a fantasy hockey list where Sanheim was listed at #61 (his average ranking) with his highest ranking being #55. Seems about right to me… on a good team, he’s a 2 at best.

A fantasy hockey list???!!! Sounds authoritative. Sanheim played for Canada at 4 Nations. Not sure who didn’t play for reasons of their own or injury, but when you get selected to make a Canadian national team there is no way in hell you’re 55 to 61 in the entire league. He’s easily in the top 10 percent, roughly Top 20-25, based on that alone plus the role and minutes he played here. The Canadian and US defenses were stacked. Sweden and Finland not so much as Risto was selected for Finland as an example. Although I would say Risto was the Flyers 2nd best defenseman last year, ahead of York.

Just so Im clear here, you aren’t actually comparing AHL playoff games to NHL playoff games are you? They aren’t even in the same realm of reality.

As for Zegras, its not even a guarantee he stays at center.

I’m comparing Buium to Luchanko based on what’s available. Buium was inconsequential in 4 games, then scratched for 2, and Luchanko was a needle mover for LHV in 7. Both guys will be players but you’re trashing the Luchanko pick, right now, based on your feels. We’ll see who does what this year. Zegras will be the 1C here this season. It’s astonishing how poorly ANA was coached under Cronin and Clune although I’m getting some second hand dope there. It shows up in the numbers though. ANA’s special teams misery index was 61. The worst possible number is 64. The Flyers was 50. Jersey was at 5.

FlyerFrank wrote:

Just so Im clear here, you aren’t actually comparing AHL playoff games to NHL playoff games are you? They aren’t even in the same realm of reality.

As for Zegras, its not even a guarantee he stays at center.

I’m comparing Buium to Luchanko based on what’s available. Buium was inconsequential in 4 games, then scratched for 2, and Luchanko was a needle mover for LHV in 7. Both guys will be players but you’re trashing the Luchanko pick, right now, based on your feels. We’ll see who does what this year.

You and I have very different definitions of “needle mover”. Luchanko was basically invisible in the Hershey series, picking up 2 assists in 5 games and once again looking overwhelmed against a decent AHL team. He has a long way to go. Meanwhile Zeev Buium was playing over 13 minutes a night against the Golden Knights, holding his own (-1) in 4 games played in the NHL playoffs, as a defenseman. Luchanko should be tearing up the AHL if we expect him to be a consequential player at the NHL level.

The two aren’t remotely comparable.

The two aren’t remotely comparable.

The best comp will be the package of Buium and Perrault against Bonk and Luchanko but it’s way to early to judge. Of course, you already made your judgment: Flyers Suck!

FlyerFrank wrote:

The two aren’t remotely comparable.

The best comp will be the package of Buium and Perrault against Bonk and Luchanko but it’s way to early to judge. Of course, you already made your judgment: Flyers Suck!

no they get judged on an individual basis. not a package.

facts hurt for flyers fans. it is a fact they stink. how can one argue otherwsie.

yes its me 2050 wrote:

no they get judged on an individual basis. not a package.

facts hurt for flyers fans. it is a fact they stink. how can one argue otherwsie.

Based on all publicly available information. Pedigree, traits, track record, projections, etc. The Flyers chose poorly. Is that future 100% written in stone? No, but for the love of god I wish some fans would have a basis of opinion that’s more than just wishful thinking.

Flyers_01 wrote:

yes its me 2050 wrote:

no they get judged on an individual basis. not a package.

facts hurt for flyers fans. it is a fact they stink. how can one argue otherwsie.

Based on all publicly available information. Pedigree, traits, track record, projections, etc. The Flyers chose poorly. Is that future 100% written in stone? No, but for the love of god I wish some fans would have a basis of opinion that’s more than just wishful thinking.

at the end of the day IMO the flyers do not value talent first or not the #1 reason to draft a player. might not even be in their top 2.