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As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick. MonkeyPunk
I completely agree with 16>88 but if Marner is leaving it has absolutely nothing to do with $$. Assuming the Leafs have/will have 105-110M on the table some other team is going to have to put 14+ on the table for him if it was about $$. If he’s leaving it’s about lifestyle. And I agree about Domi. My one complaint with Berube was his unwillingness to juggle lines to create better matchups. Maurice talked about how he juggled Verhaeghe on and off of Barkov’s line depending on Barkov’s matchup. Basically if Barkov was going to be used primarily to erase Matthews then he moved Verhaeghe to the Bennett line to make their lines 2 and 3 the offensive lines. We should have been doing that with MM or Knies to help create more offense from line 3. Switch Holmberg and Knies to create a Knies-Domi-McMann line ….at least try it. Or Knies with JT/88. Berube, overall, I love his plan but he lost the matchup battle to Maurice and most coaches will bc that team is so deep but still …for me, he had to try a little harder.
On Rielly …I’d move him if at all possible b/c he’s not going to age well. He’s weak on rushes and like you say very soft on zone coverage/battles. Great vision and passing but that weak shot makes him predictable. Honestly I think his turns have really suffered ..looks so stiff …maybe a chronic hip injury or something ..either way if you can move him you do. But, I don’t believe he’ll sign off on any move.
As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line. -monkeypunk
Marner is better than Nylander, even with the price difference. But if the Leafs dump the right players, they don’t have to pick one or the other.
Tavares must go away. Rielly must go away. Kampf must go away. Jarnkrok must go away.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Agreed on Holmberg, he can’t score to save his life. But Tavares and Nylander can’t defend to save their lives either. And Tavares’ defense was the true Achilles heel, being on the ice for the most EVGA than any Leafs forward. I’m willing to tolerate Nylander because I know we can get him a LW and a C who can cover up his obvious flaws. But there’s no way I’m going to tolerate Tavares for a second longer after how many chances he got to make it work. Holmberg, if he wants, can be a rotational 4th liner. But he’ll never be useful to the Leafs in any meaningful role.
Suppose for a moment, Kampf’s salary goes to Marner’s increase. He didn’t play meaningful hockey anyway so the Leaf don’t lose anything of value but retain a 100 point player, 4th all-time in Leafs playoff points.
Next, suppose Knies gets a bridge contract. Let’s say 3 years, 6.5 million AAV with max signing bonuses. In 3 years, Domi’s contract ends and you can give Knies the increase from Domi coming off the books which would bring the Knies budget up to 10-11 AAV. It also gives the Leafs more time to see if Knies is actually worth a big, long term commitment.
Short term, the Leafs save on cap space by not buying UFA years. He hits UFA status faster, which agents want now more than ever. The Leafs can worry about his next contract later and focus on going for it now they still have Matthews in his prime. The savings from not giving him a long term deal allows the Leafs to sign another depth forward like Brandon Tanev, just as an example.
Third, Rielly’s money plus Jarnkrok’s money totals roughly 10 million. The cap increase is another 7 million. I wager you could go into your advanced stats and find three players, a LW, a C and a RW who could become the Leafs new 3rd shutdown line and play positive possession hockey, kill penalties, shut down players and even chip in some offense for 12 million or less. You could try to move Rielly to Vancouver or Seattle. I’d say Utah might be a stretch but you could try to bring in McBain to fill at least one hole in return for Rielly and replace Rielly with a cheaper UFA.
The X-Factor that the Panthers had that the Leafs did not. The Panthers 3rd line won them the series. And it was a close series but they were clearly the difference makers. That’s what the Leafs are truly missing. But luckily, they can afford to fix it if they make the correct sacrifices in other areas without losing their best players.
The left over 5 million can go one of two ways; either get a top-six LW (Reilly Smith?) or replace Rielly with an offensive D-man, preferably RHD (Dante Fabbro?). Or attempt to acquire Jenner on his expiring contract to replace Tavares as a younger, better two-way option.
I would also move on from McMann and use his “value” of 20 goals (but 0 playoff goals) at 1.5 AAV to bring in a wrecking ball like Martin Pospisil. Jack McBain is another excellent candidate to try to bring in as mentioned earlier. Or Mathieu Olivier. Eeli Tolvanen. Kiefer Sherwood. Garnet Hathaway. Any one of these guys would be so much more useful to the Leafs than McMann was in the playoffs. The way I look at it, I’d rather have the forward with 0 playoff goals (even though most of the guys I listed could probably score as much as McMann too) who throws 300 hits a season than McMann who seemed to be invisible most nights when the team could have benefitted from a spark.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick.
The Leafs scored goals in spite of Rielly, not because of him. His goals were mostly flukes. He has been so horrid in offensive situations, he’s been removed from the PP1 and replaced by a forward. His defensive errors, were as numerous and as obvious as they ever have been. He played the most ice time, he gets paid the most money, he can’t be that bad and expect success. He is a passenger at this point. He can still provide value to a team like Vancouver or Seattle, trying to salvage a wild card spot, but he’s not winning anybody a Cup making 7.5 AAV. Not going to happen.
Don’t take anything I was saying or anything I’m about to say here as advocation – more as suggestions on players.
I think if Bennett is available, the Leafs would be interested and I have no idea about how he’d feel about playing near home.
Gourde – I’d imagine if they want him to stay, he stays. I was more commenting on how he was often heard in rumours with the Leafs and where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire . .
With regards to Marchand – look, Corey Perry is an asset and Marchand is far better and younger. I’d take him in a heartbeat whether he’s a total douchebag on the ice or not. Marchand did grow up a Leaf fan, but I suspect that ship has long since sailed, so I doubt there’s any nostalgic reason for him to want to play here, but the Leafs are still a top-tier team in the league.
I don’t know. I loved the timeliness of Patches’ goals, but I’m not sure if it was mostly luck or not.
I’d say there is no chance Bennett or Marchand are flipping over to the Leafs after having just beat them and on the road to the Cup Final. Win or lose, why would they leave warm weather, zero pressure, a formula that obviously works and way more money in their pocket?
The Leafs had their chance with Corey Perry long ago. The Leafs enjoyed watching him kill the Leafs for the Habs, Lightning and now Oilers. I’d love to add Perry, but again, his team went to the Final and appear capable of doing it again. He’s playing with McDavid sometimes. Why would he give that up? To play in this circus? I doubt it.
I’d take Pacioretty back at 900K but some think he’s going to retire.
The stars of this team arent fine and they are all similar – soft, disappear when it counts and dont hate losing enough. -fake
Errrrr. Wrong again.
Soft, is Nylander. 7 hits total in the playoffs. Marner and Matthews had 31 and 33. And Matthews was doing it injured. Marner blocks shots on the PK. Marner and Matthews each had a GWG. They did not disappear. The Leafs 1st line had 3 GWG vs the Panthers. And I’ll repeat it as many times as I have to before people wake the fuck up and realize the problem was not the Leafs 1st line.
I could see the argument that Matthews doesn’t care enough to win a Cup being a kid from Arizona but Marner definitely cares too much and hates losing. He internalizes the failures to a fault. But that’s no reason to let the guy walk as a free agent. That’d just be retarded.
The cap will rise this year but it probably doesnt go up as high as expected over the next couple of years.
Wrong. It will rise and continue to rise.
As for your Thanksgiving comment, ya if you make over millions you should be taxed 53%, but there are ways around that. Also taxes are being lowered for those in the first two bracket – under $57 000 and under $114. As it should be. I’m perfectly fine with people who make millions paying more taxes.
Wrong again communist.
JT can get more on the open market for sure, but having a quality 2nd line centerman who will transition to 3rd line in a year or so for $4-$5 would great. If the leafs sign a younger 2nd line center than JT could play wing or 3rd line. But if he walks he walks.
Tavares absolutely sucks balls as a 2nd line center. He has always sucked defensively and as he ages, he will score less and defend even worse. You’d have to be on crack to think he could be a 3rd line center on a Cup winning team.
Marner isnt worth over $12.5…..heck he’s barely worth 10.9….but I say that about matthews and Willy as well. All were overpaid too early and continue to be overpaid.
Marner is worth every penny at 10.9 and 12.5 and even 13. Yes, they are overpaid and it’s because they live in a tax hell hole. They’re “overpaid” because their agents negotiate based on what money they take home, not based on their salary cap hit.
And sorry, while with the leafs Hunter’s track record is bad at drafting: Fedor Gordeev, Keaton Middleton, Nicolas Mattinen, Ryan O’Connell, Vladimir Bobylev, Ryan McGregor, Vladislav Kara, and Nikolai Chebykin. Lili was the best of the bunch…I guess timoshov had 45 nhl games.
So his eyes arent that great.
Mark hunter is old news, moving on.Was Mark Hunter in charge of the entire draft without question? No, he wasn’t. There were always conflicting voices in the room that muddies the waters to whom he actually picked and whom dumbass Dubas wanted. Or Shanahan. Or Lou. His work with the London Knights speaks for itself. He always builds a competitive team. London Knights players usually compete for and win Cups when they make the NHL for a reason.
Even if the Leafs refused to go back to Mark Hunter, why not Mike Futa, the guy who drafted the Cup winning Kings? Or any other drafting wizard? It was 12 years ago the Dallas stars hired Jim Nill (a year before the Leafs stupidly hired Shanahan). Most people would have never known who he was. Look at the Dallas Stars today. He built the Red Wings through the draft and he did the same with the Stars. The Leafs need a drafting guru. They haven’t had one in decades. Maybe ever.
I think Gourde resigns in Tampa. The local Tampa media seems convinced of it.
I don’t think Bennett goes to Toronto. And, honestly, the guy is a POS. I’m not sure I’d want him.
Marchand is too old and is a cheapshot-artist coward. I wouldn’t want him at league minimum.
I’d try putting Domi back with Matthews.
Keep Patches if he doesn’t retire.
Rielly isn’t going anywhere, but Marner is.
I bet Tavares stays, but wouldn’t be totally shocked if he tested free agency first.
That’s all I got for now.
PS – has anyone checked the annual Leafs prediction thread back on HB for accuracy? I feel like we need to move that tradition over here.
~PDO SpeedwagonDon’t take anything I was saying or anything I’m about to say here as advocation – more as suggestions on players.
I think if Bennett is available, the Leafs would be interested and I have no idea about how he’d feel about playing near home.
Gourde – I’d imagine if they want him to stay, he stays. I was more commenting on how he was often heard in rumours with the Leafs and where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire . .
With regards to Marchand – look, Corey Perry is an asset and Marchand is far better and younger. I’d take him in a heartbeat whether he’s a total douchebag on the ice or not. Marchand did grow up a Leaf fan, but I suspect that ship has long since sailed, so I doubt there’s any nostalgic reason for him to want to play here, but the Leafs are still a top-tier team in the league.
I don’t know. I loved the timeliness of Patches’ goals, but I’m not sure if it was mostly luck or not.
I think Gourde resigns in Tampa. The local Tampa media seems convinced of it.
I don’t think Bennett goes to Toronto. And, honestly, the guy is a POS. I’m not sure I’d want him.
Marchand is too old and is a cheapshot-artist coward. I wouldn’t want him at league minimum.
I’d try putting Domi back with Matthews.
Keep Patches if he doesn’t retire.
Rielly isn’t going anywhere, but Marner is.
I bet Tavares stays, but wouldn’t be totally shocked if he tested free agency first.
That’s all I got for now.
PS – has anyone checked the annual Leafs prediction thread back on HB for accuracy? I feel like we need to move that tradition over here.
I am not sure Willy is a fit on Line 1.. Both he and Mathews are technically shooters..
~AzureOthers have mentioned it, but if Marner dips and we don’t get someone to replace him on line 1, I’m happy bumping Domi up there. He’s had chemistry with Matthews and can grind with Knies to keep teams hemmed in their own end. Domi is a defensive liability, so having him with two above average defenders is a way to insulate him.
As for WN and AM both being shooters, did you see some of the sick passes Willy had this year?!? He had a boatload of assists in the playoffs all while still scoring at pretty much his normal pace. He’d fit fine on Matty’s wing if that’s what Chief decided.
IF you had a choice between either Marner or Nylander with no salary or contract info on the table and were just picking the player you thought was the ‘best’ player I can understand the thought process behind Marner over Nylander for sure – nobody sane can deny Marner is a better overall contributor to a team since he plays so well defensively. It’s about what your team has already and what your team needs I guess but I do see your point and could agree with it if the ‘other factors’ aren’t considered like salary expectations, contract, mental toughness, ability to deliver in high pressure situations etc.
It’s all but written in the stars, Marner will leave and much like Kadri win a cup somewhere else and good for him but you can’t equate that to ‘if the Leafs kept him it would mean he could have done it here’ IMO.
Same as Kadri was not the player here he has been since leaving, nor Hyman etc. Some players need to go to a new team to grow and thrive, especially those who play for their ‘hometown team’ from the minute they get into the league until they leave or sometimes just where they are drafted to and start to learn how to be a pro vs a new team (i.e. Sam Bennett who never got more than 18 goals in Calgary & was a minus player every year and is now a guaranteed 20 or 25 goal scorer and a + player year over year in Florida). Coaches, systems, pressure from location, age, maturity etc. all play such big factors into a players performance.
If (when) Marner goes I want to see Willy at least start on L1 with Matthews, IMO he deserves it and if he’s better suited to line 2 because they can find an equal or better RW for L1 then that’s fine.
Agreed 2LW has been a revolving door of failure for the most part, they need to solidify that spot once and for all and if you don’t get a hard nosed L2 Centre it needs to be a 2LW with bite, snarl or whatever you want to call it who can score and grind. A tough thing to find for sure – essentially you want another Knies.
Reilly I agree with you fully on. I’d love to move on from him but I think the Leafs are stuck with him but I’m also not sure they can change him into what we all want him to be sadly.
~Cush29Willy deserves it, certainly – but it does beg the question – were Matthews healthy, would having a 50 goal scorer on line 1 and a 40 goal scorer on line 2 not be a pretty sweet problem to have?
I think it comes down to who they get and who does what. I don’t think this happens by any stretch (because (1) I think those players could be resigned yet, and (2) I think their combined salary would exceed the $14m we can’t spend already) but if you had a Bennett and an Ehlers, you would benefit by having Knies-Matthews-Ehlers and Tavares-Bennett-Nylander from line chemistry in that you’re getting physicality, speed, distribution and shooting spread out. If you swapped out Ehlers for Boeser in that make believe equation, you’d probably swap Nylander and Boeser because Nylander is still a better distributor and Boeser is more of a strict shooter.
Now realistically none of that happens and you’re really looking at guys in the range of Marchand, Gourde, Smith, Mantha or Tanev to try and round out the bottom-6 with a resigned Lorentz and Laughton and bumping Domi up into a top-6 role. If you could mash that in with a Bennett signing, you might not miss Marner _that_ much. Easton Cowan could be ready to move up, but I think he probably should get a spin in the AHL first; he has the feel of a guy who needs to be top-9 to be successful. I guess it would depend on who we have and where as to what opportunities present themselves.
I do expect the Leafs to land Brandon Tanev and they have often been discussed with Gourde, so we’ll see what happens!
As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick. – Monkey Puck
IF you had a choice between either Marner or Nylander with no salary or contract info on the table and were just picking the player you thought was the ‘best’ player I can understand the thought process behind Marner over Nylander for sure – nobody sane can deny Marner is a better overall contributor to a team since he plays so well defensively. It’s about what your team has already and what your team needs I guess but I do see your point and could agree with it if the ‘other factors’ aren’t considered like salary expectations, contract, mental toughness, ability to deliver in high pressure situations etc.
It’s all but written in the stars, Marner will leave and much like Kadri win a cup somewhere else and good for him but you can’t equate that to ‘if the Leafs kept him it would mean he could have done it here’ IMO.
Same as Kadri was not the player here he has been since leaving, nor Hyman etc. Some players need to go to a new team to grow and thrive, especially those who play for their ‘hometown team’ from the minute they get into the league until they leave or sometimes just where they are drafted to and start to learn how to be a pro vs a new team (i.e. Sam Bennett who never got more than 18 goals in Calgary & was a minus player every year and is now a guaranteed 20 or 25 goal scorer and a + player year over year in Florida). Coaches, systems, pressure from location, age, maturity etc. all play such big factors into a players performance.
If (when) Marner goes I want to see Willy at least start on L1 with Matthews, IMO he deserves it and if he’s better suited to line 2 because they can find an equal or better RW for L1 then that’s fine.
Agreed 2LW has been a revolving door of failure for the most part, they need to solidify that spot once and for all and if you don’t get a hard nosed L2 Centre it needs to be a 2LW with bite, snarl or whatever you want to call it who can score and grind. A tough thing to find for sure – essentially you want another Knies.
Reilly I agree with you fully on. I’d love to move on from him but I think the Leafs are stuck with him but I’m also not sure they can change him into what we all want him to be sadly.
LMFAO, MLSE came up with the Fan Access Program, (FAP). You can’t beat it.
You can’t make this shit up. – Whipper
It’s funny and linked to the app and lets you enter draws for stuff and get discounts etc. I signed up early enough and actually got a nice free Leafs T-shirt (that won’t see the light of day until after the Cup is awarded now and perhaps not even until the fall). lol
