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If Marner goes how quickly does Tanev get an “A”?
It’s not even a question of if IMO it’s just how long do they wait to do it.
Sorry Wilbur but until/unless JT or Reilly go you are 2nd in line.
Holy fuck I just give up and am disengaging trying to have a logical debate is clearly just not a worthwhile investment of time or effort.
Is it July yet so we can all shift to talking about if letting Marner walk / or re-signing him was the right or wrong move?
IF Marner goes I guess we really won’t know if it was the right move until we see what Tre does with the cap space and that might be this year but it also may not be this year (to someone else’s point – Fake maybe?) Tre may just look to snag some players on 1 year deals with the extra $ if he doesn’t like what’s available or the prices this summer and wait for the TDL or next year. Well except for sure 2 people who we all know will proclaim loudly and repeatedly that it was the wrong move, the worst move, just the dumbest thing anyone could every do in the history of mankind! lol
oh not talking about you. – Senstrolltwo
10-4 thank you.
🙂
I’m still trying but it’s becoming harder and harder and disengagement might just be the path I have to take at this point.
Tavares is a great human being. He’s a really nice guy. Dedicated. Good pro. But his teams lose playoff games because he’s not good enough where it matters.
When Berube says he wants Tavares back, he wants the person back. But the player, the stats have proven, is a loser. He’s too slow, he’s too shit defensively and offensively, vs Florida, he did nothing in 6 out of 7 games, including the PP which sucked.
“Saving” money with Tavares won’t make a damn difference when you have to spend the money you “saved” to make up for his obvious deficiencies. If they’re smart, they won’t take back Tavares unless he’s on a Corey Perry contract. Anything more than that is a self inflicted gunshot wound to the Leafs playoff success hopes.
When Tre and Berube sit down and look at the tape, when they investigate the reasons they lost the games they lost to the Panthers, they will see that Tavares was a problem and that Marner was the reason why they actually won games. And if they don’t, the team will fail. It’s that simple.
Oh so Berube saying he wants JT back 100% is really untrue but we are supposed to believe he loves every single part of Marner’s game top to bottom and when he said 100% THAT TIME he meant it but not the other time? lol Really?
If you are saying JT shouldn’t be back because he’s ‘a loser’ you have to acknowledge the same lack of success Marner has had at the NHL playoff level don’t you?
JT is slow, Marner is soft, JT was shitty offensively vs Florida, Marner was a VERY far cry from the 100 point player he was all season.
Marner had 1 goal in the entire series, went pointless in games 5 and 7 and was a -2 in both games and got a gravy assist on a shovel pass in game 6. If you want to talk about JT not performing in Florida that’s fine and true but let’s also acknowledge that Marner was not good either. Marner had 1 point in the last 4 games of the series, a series in which THEY BOTH sucked offensively.
You undervalue JT to a drastic degree for whatever reason – you can hate him that’s fine but pretending he only brings the value that a Corey Perry does to a team is just so far from the truth. JT on the open market would get 4 M or more from many teams – he’s not a 1M player.
If you want to talk about saving money to create a more balanced roster the move is obvious and likely the one that will happen, (much to your obvious displeasure) and Marner will walk and the Leafs will have 13M or more of cap space to use on creating that balance. The concept that they have to spend money to support JT or what you claim are his weaknesses is fine, Mitch Marner alone can’t bring success to this team so they would or will have to spend money to make that happen to overcome the things missing in his game (size, toughness to start) as well as a sniper to finish his passes. If you want to go down that path then you can say some of what the Leafs pay Matthews is for that exact reason.
Finally as far as ‘when’ Tre and Berube look at the tapes to try and figure out why they lost – you seriously don’t think they have done that already and Berube is saying he 100% wants JT back and will suddenly change his mind when he finally does so? You can’t possibly be serious on this.
Tkachuk has barely scored — and didn’t against us — and the team had no problem potting goals against our team, because we lost all the matchups or at best, came out evens, so our entire offense was nullified when the top 2 lines were shutdown.
Like it’s not as if this is a recent thing either: it’s been 8 years of this man. Way overdue for a change in the makeup of this team and it starts with saying goodbye to Marner. There is absolutely no way you can build a balanced team with that much allocated to so few players. So easy to shutdown and let your depth feast on our perennially weak bottom 6 that will always be at a disadvantage thanks to no money to spend on it. – Gravy
^ agree with all of this Gravy and also agree that taking a step back or just treding wather waiting for UFA’s (any of them including McJesus) is a huge risk and not one I’d be comfortable making. I feel like he will go back to the Oilers almost for certain at this point, back to back cup finals (even if they are terrible next year) likely will make him believe the Oilers can / are smart enough and have the ability to build around him and Dry Saddle to be a cup contender. A few years ago I’m not sure that was how he would have felt.
Buy-out for Morgan Rielly isn’t all that bad.
I guess some may say it’s “not bad” for year one at 1.6M (but to me, consdering how tight the Leafs are to the cap, it’s bad).
Not sure how 3.6 per against the cap for 4 years and then 2.13M per year for another 6 years can’t be described as anything other than bad, especially when you consider how tight to the cap the Leafs have been and probably always will be.
To me a Rielly buy out is an option that should even be considered.
Is JT a “Craig Berube” type of player?
I mean you keep saying JT is horrific defensively and dog shit but lone behold guess what the coach said about re-signing JT……
No, he isn’t. And the difference is the stats prove that Tavares is horrible defensively whereas the stats prove Marner is not.
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IF TRUE
then this just proves my point that what Berube is saying in the media has to be taken with a grain of salt – he’s doing his job and following marching orders when he makes statements about UFA’s. And again he also said 100% he wanted to re-sign both Marner and JT.
its so hard to post here with the douchy know it all replies spamming the threads. every reply is just dripping with complete asshole vibes
thats all senstrolltwo
Full admission that I know I’m guilty of this sometimes but I like to think/hope I only do this when I’m replying to a comment or replies that have been posted in the nature that you are talking about. The last reply I posted I had typed out and edited 3 times to try and avoid dragging the thread into a silly argument and more a discussion but I’m not sure if I’ll have success on that front or not.
So in short – sorry if it was me who has made you feel that way, the last thing I think the vast majority of the folks here want is to see this place take on what so many hate about that other place.
Also, Marner fits perfectly into Berube’s system as Berube has already said he wants Marner back 100%. So this false narrative that Marner doesn’t fit under Berube is a pile of horseshit.
Just because Berube said 100% he wants Marner back doesn’t means Marner somehow fits Berube’s style all of a sudden.
Marner is a highly gifted and skilled, but super soft player who doesn’t forecheck to save his life & racks up the regular season points playing with a guy who scored 69 fucking goals one year. Oh and racks up points in playoff series games 1-4 or non-elimination games and don’t give me the bullshit about him with the ‘primairy assist on the GWG Matthews scored” that was a 2 foot shovel pass. The book around the league on Marner is to put quick and tough pressure on him (aka bully and intimidate him) and he will cough up the puck – and it’s true and we have all seen it year over year when the playoff come.
That is the furthest thing from a “Craig Berube” type of player – ever.
Berube is the coach of the team that has 2 UFA’s who they are presumably negotiating with so it’s his job to say nothing but positive things about those players and anyone who can’t understand that is just fooling themselves.
Is JT a “Craig Berube” type of player?
I mean you keep saying JT is horrific defensively and dog shit but lone behold guess what the coach said about re-signing JT……
Berube ‘100%’ wants Leafs to re-sign Marner, Tavares
Maple Leafs head coach Craig Berube made it clear that he hopes the team finds a way to bring back Mitch Marner and John Tavares with both players heading into free agency. Berube expressed his love for Marner and how he enjoyed coaching him throughout the season.https://www.tsn.ca/video/berube-100-wants-leafs-to-re-sign-marner-tavares~3137031
Berube’s comments and sound bites need to be taken with context in mind, a grain of salt and through the lens of the fact he is the coach and is doing (and saying) what the GM / Team is asking or telling him to say.
He’s been around long enough I’m sure Tre doesn’t need to tell him not to say Marner is soft or JT is too slow or whatever negatives he sees in either player so he doesn’t have a negative impact on Tre doing his work to re-sign these guys, maximize whatever they can get for negotiating rights to either or make other players think Toronto will drag them through the mud as a UFA.
Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him. – Atomic Wedgie
Why so angry? Lasagna issues? lol
You clearly see team and player points (and personal accolades to some degree)s being removed / lost as getting weaker (and I get that POV) but let me share some facts that may make you not feel as worried (and even surprise you because they surprised me) about how much a step back in points may or may not impact the Leaf if that step back is managed (the cap space / $’s are used) the right way.
I think it’s safe to say most folks look at the Panthers as the model to copy right now as far as roster construction.
Did you know the player with the most points on the Panthers was Reinhart with 81?
He was also their top goal scorer with 39 total goals.
Verhaeghe who many gripe about the Leafs not keeping had 20 goals and 33 assists……and was a -14
Sam Bennett had 25 goals, 26 assists and was a -15
So to summarize they didn’t have a single player who even score 40 goals and one guy who got 81 points with the next closest for points being Barkov with 71 points and for goals being Bennett with 25 goals.
And no, they didn’t ride unreal goaltending all year, BOB had a 2.44GAA and a .906 save %
The back up Vanecek was way worse at 3.64 GAA and a .884 Save %.
This is my point, the Panthers are just “built differently” than the Leafs – they are built for playoff success and regular season ‘good enough’.
To me if the Leafs have an opportunity and the flexibility to change and as TRE said “change the DNA” then that’s what I want them to. Not to try and replace the 100 point / Selke nominee Marner in full but replace some of that but also add in some of what he, the rest of the core and the bottom 6 simply hasn’t been able to deliver.
FOR ME that’s not worse that’s better but I can appreciate others don’t see it the same way as I do.
With all the talk of if the Leafs are ‘worse’ without Marner is lacking a clear definition of what the person asking the ? views as ‘worse’.
I would be more than fine if the Leafs are “worse” if that definition of worse means the Leafs don’t win the division, end up with say 10 less points in the regular season, hell maybe more so long as they make the playoffs and go 3 or more rounds routinely.
I don’t care about regular season points at all, nor winning a division anymore.
If being “worse” as scoring and getting points = having a more balanced team that is actually built for playoff success sign me up for them being worse.
For the most part, I think Tre has done quite well considering what was left after Dubas’ departure. He’s completely retooled the back end, and the tendies are looking nice! Now he’s got a little bit of breathing room to play with the forwards with Shanny gone and likely having more leash.
The Carlo trade was a beauty, I can see how the Laughton trade has an odor to it, but he’s still got another year to turn it around.
Can we please stop talking about trading Rielly?!?! Mark my words, he will play out 100% of his contract in a Leaf uniform. He’s a terrible player, makes WAY too much money for what he brings, and has full trade protection. “He needs a change of scenery, someone will take a chance on him.” Bullshit! Nobody is touching that guy unless the Leafs retain 50% and throw in a sweetener or take a crap contract back.
Please, God, Tre, prove me wrong. – Whipper
Agreed on Tre re-tooling the back end nicely and the situation between the pipes being good to great currently (despite the HB blog from Ek noting Toronto as a team who is interested in Demko if Van retains. Why would the Leafs have any interest in that? The only way would be a bigger deal where goalies are included IMO).
BIG TIME AGREE on Rielly. I’m almost as tired of reading about how Rielly would agree to be moved just because it’s closer to where he is from as I am of reading how terrible JT is and that he shouldn’t be brought back regardless. Pretending like JT isn’t a legit decent option at 2C on many team or can’t be shifted to the wing is insane. The guy wants to stay, can produce, is a monster still in the faceoff dot and will take a haircut – why the fuck wouldn’t you bring him back?
JT and Rielly aren’t why this team can’t get it done.
Look harder at the players who will be paid top dollars next year and were this year if you want to know why – AM, WN and MM specifically.
Blaming the 2nd pairing D man who is for sure overpaid or the 2nd line C who was also overpaid this year as the why vs the guys making 13.25, 11 and 10.9 each (the last one who will want what 13, 14M to stay?) and are supposed to be in their prime and to major firepower up front who collectively shit the bed in games 4,5 and 7 (and even then needed the goalie to pitch a shut out in game 6 and only were responsible for 1 of the 2 goals) is insanely stupid.
For two months of O’Reilly and Acciari they gave up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Gaudette and Abramov; for eleven games of Foligno they gave up a 1st and 2 4ths.
I’m not saying that makes the Laughton look any better right now – a bad trade is a bad trade, even if there are worse ones – but I am saying that Laughton still has time here to make that trade worthwhile. – MonkeyPuck
Hard not to agree with you on giving Laughton more time and also hard not to cringe looking back at what was given up for the pure rentals in O’Reilly and Acciari and Foligno.
At least Tre got term on his trades where we moved his 1st round pick.
I’m not saying he’s worth that much.
But I think a team will go overboard and offer close to 10M for Sam Bennett.
With the cap going up, some GMs will go completely insane with spending this summer. – Scabby
10M for Bennett is a no for me. Still have Dave Bolland / Wendel Clarkson PTSD.
Both those “hometown boys” were supposed to be what the Leafs lacked, make them tougher, knew how to win etc.
Change the DNA feels like a GM who wants to say make a major change with respect to the players on the roster but knows he can’t say that.
The Leafs / Tre are saying all the right things about Marner because they have to make an offer but Tre did say something lie Mitch has a say in all this and it’s not just the Brad show.
To me that’s setting the table so the narrative when Marner walks is not just “Leafs let him walk” and can be more “we couldn’t come to an agreement”.
They want Mitch to take some blame if/when he leaves – rightfully so IMO.
Getting rid of Reilly the 2nd pairing Dman or the former captain who is a 2nd line C on many teams in the league and a 2nd line winger or 3rd line c on any team who will take a big haircut to come back isn’t changing the DNA.
