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Will this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs be hero’s and come back in the series to win 2 straight and slay the game 7 dragon?
Or
Will they have teased their fanbase yet again, showing what they are capable of in 3 games in a playoff series only to lose another game 7?
This equation feels me asking if Charlie Brown finally kick that football or will that cruel bitch Lucy manage to pull it away again?
My heart says this is the year the Leafs figure it out and win a game 7. He head says it’s an insane expectation against the defending cup champs.
God I’d love to see the entire “core” have the games of their lives and destroy Florida but I’ll take a bottom 6 player or 2 stepping up and some offense from the back end again for a win.
Go Leafs Go.
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/game-7-status-for-maple-leafs-knies-remains-uncertain/
Might be without Knies at 100%. Or at all.
That’s a problem.
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I have a been a fan of this team since 1961. I have had the good fortune to see them win 4 Cups in the 60’s. Since then, with few exceptions, the team has been a shit show. Like Mike from Buffalo, whom I have followed for years, this club has to show me. I hate to say it, but I expect a loss in game7. In this case, In would love to be wrong. Let’s see what happens.
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I have a been a fan of this team since 1961. I have had the good fortune to see them win 4 Cups in the 60’s. Since then, with few exceptions, the team has been a shit show. Like Mike from Buffalo, whom I have followed for years, this club has to show me. I hate to say it, but I expect a loss in game7. In this case, In would love to be wrong. Let’s see what happens.
Hope for the best, expect the worst. Rather be surprised than disappointed.
This Panthers team is very strong and they shutout McDavid in Game 7 of the Final last year. They have been there before. And they have even more experience this time around. The Leafs have Game 7 demons.
It’ll take some kind of miracle for the Leafs to pull it off. And that’s why we watch.
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Game 7 demon will be vanquished UG. Gotta BeLeafs my good man. -dmnted
Doubt it until I see it. They’ve given me no evidence to prove they’re up to the Game 7 task.
But more importantly, Florida has every advantage they need to win it and they’ve done it before. The Leafs aren’t bad this year. Florida is simply better in every way.
Panthers are basically undefeated if they end the 1st or 2nd period with a lead.
If the Leafs want any hope to win they must: Score first, control the play, draw penalties, score on the PP and then, the hardest part, hold a 3rd period Game 7 lead.
Marner has a GWG, Matthews has a GWG and Knies is playing injured but he’s already had his GWG. Who is going to step up and be the game winner tonight?
Nylander? Tavares? They had moments earlier in the series but haven’t done much since Game 4 and missed many golden chances. That has to change.
Rielly? OEL? Leafs usually win games when the D is capable of scoring. OEL should be on the PP1. Rielly is a pylon but he’s had some offensive fortune in the playoffs.
Will somebody from the bottom-six FINALLY be able to score a goal? Robertson, the only bottom-six guy who scored a goal is not in the line-up.
The Panthers 3rd line has been a powerhouse and their depth advantage is forcing the Leafs top line to produce all the offense. That usually doesn’t work out for the Leafs.
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I just asked in the remainder of the unblocked blogs if they were going to be blocked.
The ghost of a controller over there is a lame ass joke. At least be out in the open. – Dozzer
It’s just weird. Is it someone with a grudge? How come that nonsense hasn’t been stopped. The whole thing is kind of comical.
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On remote from the Akwesane Resort and Casino. I felt it necessary to chime in. This looks like Game 5 all over again. For the 9th year in a row, we failed. Woll came to play but no-one else did. It’s typical to get our hopes up, then let us down one more time. It’s despicable but we aren’t on the ice, the Hobbits are. Stuck watching the American feed, being stateside. Lots of Canadians here and lots of long faces. Nobody stepped up! Got it?
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Called it.
Congrats for picking the easiest thing to call. Calling the field is like betting that your neighbour isn’t going to win the lottery and then saying how smart you are when they didn’t win the lottery.
31 teams lose a year. Easiest thing to do.
Regardless, changes be coming. I don’t see how you get the same result with two GMs, two coaches, deck chair shuffling, goalie shuffling and not fire Shanny or make a big change.
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Garbage team.
Bye shanny
Bye marner
Fuck off Matthews and morgan – FaksieWhy do people say to get rid of Matthews? I bet you’d take McKinnon on your team though right? The guy has gotten out of the second round ONCE in his career and that was when he won a cup.
He also made the playoffs once in his first 4 years. Has been to the second round more than Matthews though. Regardless the point is, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep the top centerman.
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Why do people say to get rid of Matthews? I bet you’d take McKinnon on your team though right? The guy has gotten out of the second round ONCE in his career and that was when he won a cup.
He also made the playoffs once in his first 4 years. Has been to the second round more than Matthews though. Regardless the point is, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep the top centerman. -Aaron
Have you ever watched Mackinnon play compared to how Matthews plays? Matthews is every bit as lazy, frightened and useless as Marner. When the going gets tough, not one of them (MMTNR) rises to the occasion.
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Leafs won the division, won a round and lost to the defending Champs who loaded up at the deadline.
Leafs definitely need improvements but the world isn’t ending. Keep building on the success. Their time will come if they make the correct adjustments.
Shanahan gone, Rielly gone, Tavares gone if he asks for more than 5 AAV.
Marner must stay. You can’t lose your leading scorer for nothing. There is nobody available to replace him that will actually sign here for less money and more impact.
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Marner must stay. You can’t lose your leading scorer for nothing. There is nobody available to replace him that will actually sign here for less money and more impact
Well no. He isn’t a “must” stay. Reason? He doesn’t have a contract and doesn’t have to be signed. Leafs will suit up a roster and win some games regardless if Marner is on that roster.
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Well no. He isn’t a “must” stay. Reason? He doesn’t have a contract and doesn’t have to be signed. Leafs will suit up a roster and win some games regardless if Marner is on that roster. -Aaron
Yes, he must stay. You improve the team by keeping your best players, not letting them go for nothing in return.
Losing Marner is not addition by subtraction like it would be if it were dumping Rielly. There is nobody out there to replace him. Nobody willing to come here for less who will provide more either.
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Why do people say to get rid of Matthews? I bet you’d take McKinnon on your team though right? The guy has gotten out of the second round ONCE in his career and that was when he won a cup.
He also made the playoffs once in his first 4 years. Has been to the second round more than Matthews though. Regardless the point is, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Keep the top centerman
AaronCause he isnt a playoff performer.
Hes not worth the money.
Matthews is no MacKinnon…not even close or comparable.
Matthews has a 1/4 of the heart and will or mackinnon -
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Woll sucks
~FakepartofmeBefore tonight, he had something like a .950 sv% in potential series clinching games, and the Leafs did him zero favors tonight. Granted, he was not great tonight, but the kid has a bright future.
Like I said, Tre has done a great job so far with the back end, he gets free reign to retool the forwards now as far as I’m concerned.
Fire Shanny into the mother fucking sun.
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Kypreos was right.
The better team won. There is zero question that Florida is the better team.
This.
This Leafs team is better than previous versions. Their time will come. They just need to keep adding pieces without losing their best players.
The Panthers will cap and age themselves out in the next two years. We didn’t get swept. They can be beat if the correct adjustments are made.
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Goaltending is not where the Leafs need to improve
G is set for next year
D is basically set for next yearThey will have $25 mil available.
Knies gets a raise
Resign Tavares on Team friendly deal
Resign Holmberg(I would not have said this before the playoffs)
Trade Kampf, Jarncock, Reaves (Free up 4 mil)
If you can find a trade for Rielly yo do it.
I am 50/50 on trading Domi
Use some of the Marlies that they clearly are not going to promorte as trade capital (Niemela\Kokkonen..ect)Bring in some heavy players.
I would take a run at Ekblad if he makes it to UFA..
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The boys don’t hate to lose. No dogs. And don’t kid yourselves – 16 is WALKING AWAY from this team.
Look up ‘organizational failure’ in a sports dictionary and you’ll see the Shanahan era Leafs as the first entry.
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The boys don’t hate to lose. No dogs. And don’t kid yourselves – 16 is WALKING AWAY from this team.
Look up ‘organizational failure’ in a sports dictionary and you’ll see the Shanahan era Leafs as the first entry.
~fifty mission capI figure Shanahan is gone, Treliving and Berube are safe.
Marner is gone. He has no supporters left here. The crowd booed him any time he touched the puck at the end of the game. Trade him at the draft for whatever paltry picks you can fetch from an interested team, or participate in a sign & trade for him to get his 8th year. Let him go somewhere else and vanish when the going gets tough.
Tavares played well enough to return, but not well enough to warrant even $7m on his next deal. Even losing Marner and JT makes you wonder if the addition of toughness would really alter this group very much.
Rielly had moments when the physicality wasn’t that amped up, but once Florida started to forecheck, he wilted and reverted to missing pucks, losing battles and not physically engaging on the boards where it was required. In the end he contributed little and cost more. I’d try and move him. Buying him out would be just too long (10 years).
I wouldn’t trade Matthews at his lowest value and I’m expecting he was playing hurt all season; while he was almost a P/G in the playoffs he was not himself and was too infrequently not an asset.
I don’t know what happened to Willy either. He just vanished and didn’t engage way too often. It was enigma-Willy – playing when he felt like it.
On the plus side there were bright spots other than the D and G – Obviously Knies, but the lesser sung guys like Lorentz, Laughton, Pacioretty and at times Holmberg were all pretty good. Kampf, Jarnkrok and Robertson might be done as Leafs.
An honest assessment? They made it further than they have under Matthews – not far enough obviously – but there’s progress there. They need toughness in the forwards and from the forwards. Still too many guys who are easily pushed around and cowed. It’s disappointing and their ability to not compete at critical times was probably more obvious this year than any other year. And this under a coach who preaches competitiveness more than the last one. I would imagine they need to figure out where that rot is and weed it out.
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I figure Shanahan is gone, Treliving and Berube are safe.
Marner is gone. He has no supporters left here. The crowd booed him any time he touched the puck at the end of the game. Trade him at the draft for whatever paltry picks you can fetch from an interested team, or participate in a sign & trade for him to get his 8th year. Let him go somewhere else and vanish when the going gets tough.
Tavares played well enough to return, but not well enough to warrant even $7m on his next deal. Even losing Marner and JT makes you wonder if the addition of toughness would really alter this group very much.
Rielly had moments when the physicality wasn’t that amped up, but once Florida started to forecheck, he wilted and reverted to missing pucks, losing battles and not physically engaging on the boards where it was required. In the end he contributed little and cost more. I’d try and move him. Buying him out would be just too long (10 years).
I wouldn’t trade Matthews at his lowest value and I’m expecting he was playing hurt all season; while he was almost a P/G in the playoffs he was not himself and was too infrequently not an asset.
I don’t know what happened to Willy either. He just vanished and didn’t engage way too often. It was enigma-Willy – playing when he felt like it.
On the plus side there were bright spots other than the D and G – Obviously Knies, but the lesser sung guys like Lorentz, Laughton, Pacioretty and at times Holmberg were all pretty good. Kampf, Jarnkrok and Robertson might be done as Leafs.
An honest assessment? They made it further than they have under Matthews – not far enough obviously – but there’s progress there. They need toughness in the forwards and from the forwards. Still too many guys who are easily pushed around and cowed. It’s disappointing and their ability to not compete at critical times was probably more obvious this year than any other year. And this under a coach who preaches competitiveness more than the last one. I would imagine they need to figure out where that rot is and weed it out.-Monkeypunk
This pretty much sums it up.
Friedman kept saying that Berube would have a big sau in what happens in the off-season. I certainly hope so. He knows better than any of us what is actually wrong with this group and I doubt it is as simple as just let Marner walk for the privilege of overpaying for some new magic beans in FA.
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It gives me no joy to say this : I am now backing McJesus and the Oil. But only until these playoffs are done.
Fuck the other three crackhead teams. Dallas and Florida are trash, and I don’t give one fuck about Carolina.
If Edmonton had a goalie, they’d be a lock.
It’s amazing how the Oilers keep pissing away the prime years of the best player on the planet.
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I went peek in on HB.
Highlights :
1) Ek posting in the Leafs thread and catering to the Leafs in an effort to stop the slow bleed out of users to HHS.
2) Spatso appeared.
3) Much gnashing of teeth and tearing of robes.
4) Lots of proposed fixes that won’t happen : sign Bennett, bring back Kadri, etc.
5) Political comments flowing freely.
In other words, same old shit.
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Was not able to sleep last night, feels empty, angry and disappointed.
It takes couple of days to recover from such events.
But tomorrow will be another day and pain will go away.
Enjoy the Summer Leafs Nation
Alex.TMLI slept normal.
Fortunately i was not invested in this team this year. Didnt even watch game 5 or 7, watched a bit of game 6.With Matthews as captain, marner as an A, i simply dont expect much from this team.
They’ve traded away 1st rounders like crazy, one for a 3rd line center.
Team is screwed for a while. Imo-
I slept normal.
Fortunately i was not invested in this team this year. Didnt even watch game 5 or 7, watched a bit of game 6.With Matthews as captain, marner as an A, i simply dont expect much from this team.
They’ve traded away 1st rounders like crazy, one for a 3rd line center.
Team is screwed for a while. Imo – FakeSame. I don’t get too invested in shit like sports. I love hockey and I love my teams, but my mood is not tied to my team in any way.
Life goes on. Sure, I’d love it if the Leafs advanced last night. I’m not gonna lose sleep over it though.
Now I just wanna see McJesus teabag the shit out of the competition. Good thing the Oilers don’t have goaltending, or the whole league would be fucked watching McDavid win 10 championships in a row.
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I slept normal.
Fortunately i was not invested in this team this year. Didnt even watch game 5 or 7, watched a bit of game 6.With Matthews as captain, marner as an A, i simply dont expect much from this team.
They’ve traded away 1st rounders like crazy, one for a 3rd line center.
Team is screwed for a while. Imo -FakeI slept great!
I haven’t felt this core would ever win for many years now.
Yup, it’s going to be a while. A rebuild can’t even start for another 5 years or so. The team has zero chance as long as Matthews is there.
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I slept normal.
Fortunately i was not invested in this team this year. Didnt even watch game 5 or 7, watched a bit of game 6.With Matthews as captain, marner as an A, i simply dont expect much from this team.
They’ve traded away 1st rounders like crazy, one for a 3rd line center.
Team is screwed for a while. Imo. ~FakepartofmeWatched all 82 games, but was not emotionally engaged like before.
With every year, watching the same outcome, emotions slowly disappeared.
But last game I felt, not gonna lie.
Good thing it is Holidays today and no need to work.
Team is screwed, I knew it for a while. You can’t patch roster if you don’t have a core to build around.
Dubas and Shnahan screw it completely by giving huge contracts to wrong players.
Willy contract is bad too, he is not worth that much with such level of defense. This is not even Kessel level. -
So the answer to my question was indeed as Aaron said the Leafs were mostly zeros last night.
Scared and for some scarred zeros.
I thought Domi was their bast player and when Matthews, Marner, Willy, JT and Reilly take up the % of cap they do that simply shouldn’t. And can’t happen in a game 7 Ever.
Woll was the only reason they weren’t t done after 20 minutes just like game 5. He got tired and his rebound control suffered and it cost them 2 goals but it didn’t matter all that much imo as they weren’t coming back.
Woll will learn from this experience I think / hope and I do think they are fine between the pipes moving forward.
Marner of all people screaming at the bench like a 3 year old having a temper tantrum while playing his usual scared and soft / underperforming elimination game was pathetic and laughable all at the same time. Zero accountability by him or Matthews in his post game and I was so disgusted I didn’t watch the interview with the rest of the core but expect they were similar.
“I don’t know” or “too many passengers” is a cop out – step the fuck up and say I was terrible and there is no excuse for it and I apologize to the fans for that. If you are going to wear the C or an A on your fucking jersey lead by example don’t shrug your shoulders and say “I dunno”. Jesus.
Marner is gone and he needs to be.
Exceptionally talented player who can’t succeed in Toronto. It’s not uncommon – home town boy and the pressure he feels cripples him IMO. It’s too bad he didn’t see this and agree to the Rantenan trade but no way he’s back. Try a sign and trade but if that can’t happen trade his rights for whatever you can get and use that cap to start to change the structure ams culture of this team before they are the new San Jose Sharks (if they aren’t already).I’m going to wait and see what’s up with Matthews and his injury before chiming in on if trading him should be under consideration (as unlikely as it would be to happen) but his comments so far after this mess have been very disappointing to me.
They lost again for the same reason they have lost so many times come playoffs – the guys paid to score didn’t. They beat Ottawa fueled by secondary scoring and d scoring. They didn’t and don’t get enough from lines 1&2 when the chips are down sometime to make changes to line 1 & 2.
Knies needs to be locked up – before he got hurt he was the best player they had all series.
Rielly is a problem, he’s not value for money but I’m not sure you can trade him but I’d try anyway. He’s part of the rotten core so if you can move him I’d do it but I have my doubts they can.
JT needs to only come back on a 3rd line centre salary or let him walk too.
Willy disappeared the last 3 games which is not like him at all. The chemistry in the room seems like it’s an issue. I also think Willy maybe is slightly unhappy about not being part of the leadership team. I’d stick it out with him based on the fact he just signed a monster contract and he can score and handle the Toronto pressure much better than say Marner or even Matthews. Maybe he’s part of the leadership team (wear an A) in the future maybe not but being this is the first time he’s really disappeared in critical playoff games I would play it out a bit.
Reilly out helps this D tremendously imo.
It’s going to be an interesting summer to see what MLSE does or doesn’t do. If they just tweak and bring back Marner they will continue to not be good enough to be in that upper echelon of teams good enough to get to a cup final.
That’s my 67 cents take (get it 67?) and mini- blog.
Off to do yard work and forget about last night and enjoy some sun.
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Florida was expected to win this series. I am less upset they lost and more with how they lost. If game 5 and 7 were competitive and had both been losses I would likely be ok.
I think anyone but a complete moron or troll can see that Marner wants to test free agency. He wants to be the center of attention and he wants to be the star of his team and in the process will probably get $14-15 mil. If he wanted to sign here he would have by now.
Tre has done a fabulous job with Goal and the D in his time so far.. We need to trust that he can do the same to the forward group.
He has pulled of trades that nobody saw coming (Carlo) to help the D.
The first thing that needs to happen is Shanny needs to go.. He has been a failure here went off the board and hired Dubas who crippled this team by handing out contracts rather than bridge deals and has incubated the coddling of the stars.
Washington and Ovechkin have advanced past the 2nd round 1 time in 20 years
Colorado and McKinnon have advanced past the 2nd round 1 time in 11 years -
This isn’t some magical curse or some other “fans fault” bullshit excuse. Kids who grew up as the “best” player on their teams don’t experience much of that “dig in and try hard” mentality because its always been easy for them.
A lot of us have been saying it for years…the team is filled with players that are too soft and are paid too much so can’t add good players that are not too soft.
It’s not overly complicated. Add hard-nosed players that have had to work their balls off to get to the big league WITH SKILL to this new “CORE” group and watch the difference.
Knies, Matthews, XXX
XXX, XXX, Nylander
Domi, Laughton, B.Tanev
Lorentz, XXX, JeannotMcCabe, Tanev
OEL, XXX
Benoit, CarloStoli
Woll (as a B/U only, for now, needs to find consistency)6 players with a never quit attitude, after you sign FAs Tanev/Jeannot and you have the cap space plus Rielly, Marner and Tavares $ to do it.
If Marner really loved the city of Toronto and wanted to leave on a good note, he would allow a sign and trade so he can get his greedy mitts on 8yr deal and go fluff it on another team and Leafs could get assets back. It’s the best win/win scenario.
And I said it yesterday, Leafs fans in general don’t care about losing (seen enough of it), I bet most of us care more about “HOW” the Leafs lose…aka dry haired Marner yelling at the bench is the exact fucking issue for me.
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As a surprise to some, but not I, the Leafs lost to the Panthers. The Leafs exceeded my expectations. I thought the Panthers would end them in 6 but the Leafs pushed them to 7.
Let’s do this player by player, head to head.
RW1- Reinhart 2G 3A 5P – Marner 1G 4A 5P – Even
C1 – Barkov 2G 3A 5P – Matthews 1G 3A 4P – Barkov
LW1 – Verhaeghe 2G 3A 5P – Knies 2G 2A 4P – VerhaegheThe top lines were pretty evenly matched with the Panthers getting the slight edge. The three games the Leafs won, Marner, Matthews and Knies got the GWG. That should tell anybody with even a room temperature IQ that the problem IS NOT the top line on this team. They went shot for shot with not one but TWO Selke FINALISTS and came out pretty much even.
RW2 – Tkachuk 0G 4A 4P – Nylander 3G 3A 6P – Nylander
C2 – Bennett 3G 1A 4P – Tavares 2G 0A 2P – Bennett
LW2 – Rodrigues 0G 3A 3P – Pacioretty 2G 4A 6P – PaciorettyOn the score sheet, this line was a mixed bag either way. This line for the Leafs started strong and ended with a whimper. For all the shit Marner and Matthews gets for not showing up in the big games, Nylander and Tavares did next to nothing in Games 5, 6 and 7. Pacioretty was the big surprise offensively but this line was routinely stuck in their own zone and Tavares was on the ice for more goals against than any other Leafs forward. He has always been and will continue to be a defensive liability as he ages. The fact that the Panthers could manage to win this series with Tkachuk getting 0 goals is telling. The reason? Depth scoring as we are about to see with the 3rd and 4th lines.
RW3 – Marchand 3G 5A 8P – Holmberg 0G 0A 0P – Marchand
C3 – Lundell 2G 3A 5P – Domi 2G 3A 5P – Even
LW3 – Luostarinen 2G 5A 7P – McMann 0G 2A 2P – LuostarinenThis line was the biggest reason why the Panthers won the series. Plain and simple. They absolutely destroyed the Leafs at both ends of the ice. Leafs fans can erroneously blame their “core 4” for all their problems but the reality is they got beat on the 3rd line. Marchand was the perfect deadline acquisition for the Panthers, unlike Laughton for the Leafs. Absolutely relentless on the forecheck, defensively sound and offensively opportunistic. This line wasn’t really on the PP but they would kill you 5v5. The Leafs did not have an answer for this line and if they wish to win in the future, this is the type of 3rd line they need to be able to create. Which is funny because it’s often the type of line that barely costs you cap space to create if you just know how to draft and develop players.
Lundell and Luostarinen are clear examples of what the Panthers do right that the Leafs do wrong. Lundell, a 1st round pick, is 23 years old and produces 15ish goals with 30-40 points. Luostarinen, picked up as a spare part in a trade with Carolina for Trocheck, another 10-15 goal, 30-40 point player. Neither one of them are flashy or all-stars. But determined competitors. Think of having two of Leo Komarov’s bigger, better brothers. Then add to the mix a veteran like Marchand and you have a 3rd line from hell. Domi, for all his flaws, is still a valuable playoff performer for the Leafs. He gets it. It’s in his blood. He hates to lose. But he needs better guys to play with. McMann was damn near useless other than one assist. And Holmberg, well, he’s pretty much useless too, especially offensively.
RW4 – Gadjovich 2G 1A 3P – Jarnkrok 0G 0A 0P – Gadjovich
C4 – Sturm 0G 0A 0P – Laughton 0G 0A 0P – Even
LW4 – Greer 1G 1A 2P – Lorentz 0G 2A 2P – GreerThis Leafs 4th line did hustle, I will give them that. But they couldn’t finish to save their life. Two breakaways early in Game 7 with nothing to show for it. The Panthers, on the other hand, did get some goals from their 4th line. In a game of inches, it makes all the difference. Absolutely ZERO goals from this line. Doesn’t seem like it should matter but unfortunately it does. Did anybody know who Gadjovich was before the series? Well, he scored 2 goals by himself. 6’3, 211 from Whitby, scored 46 goals in the OHL. And the Leafs don’t have him. Why? Because they’d rather have midget pylons like Jarnkrok. Jarnkrok, for all his efforts, got nothing. And he’s been considered a reliable, dependable bottom-six player. He has to go. Kampf and Robertson, also have to go. They do not move the needle in the playoffs. At all.
LD1 – Forsling 0G 1A 1P – McCabe 0G 3A – 3P
RD1 – Jones 2G 2A – 4P – Tanev 1G 1A – 2PJones dominated this series. Multiple Leafs fans stupidly thought Jones absolutely sucked. Guess what? He’s a force. He played a ridiculous amount of time and took over games, including important moments like Game 7. While the Leafs have been looking for a top pair RHD for years, what were they doing? They were busy getting Carlo. Why? Because the Leafs love getting lesser players and expecting too much from them. The moment Jones demanded a trade away from Chicago, the Leafs should have been first in line. Instead? They’re golfing early because their division rival was first to improve their team. Tanev, at his age and his contract, is going to decline. And offensively, simply does not contribute enough. The Leafs should have signed him to be a 2nd pair RHD and instead they’re expecting him to do too much as they always have from their aging defenders.
LD2 – Mikkola 1G 0A 1P – Rielly 2G 2A 4P – Mikkola just for not being a defensive liability
RD2 – Ekblad 1G 4A 5P – Carlo 0G 0A 0P – EkbladRielly is an absolute disaster. He must be traded. He scored more than he did in the regular season but it still wasn’t enough to make up for the absolute train wreck he is defensively. Once able to skate himself out of trouble, he just makes terrible decisions for a player with 10+ years of NHL experience. He is broke and can’t be fixed. Carlo, is a big pylon too. There’s a reason why Boston dumped him on the Leafs. Playing with Rielly is difficult, no doubt, but it’s always extra annoying when the biggest guy on the ice is playing like he’s Ian White rather than Zdeno Chara. If Carlo had somebody better to play with, he wouldn’t be as bad but there’s no chance he’s going to be able to keep Rielly afloat going forward. And he’s offensively inept and useless so whatever mistakes he makes defensively will never be equalized at the other end.
LD3 – Schmidt 0G 4A 4P – OEL 0G 2A 2P – Schmidt
RD3 – Kulikov 1G 1A 2P – Benoit 0G 0A 0P – KulikovOEL was underutilized this season and this series. He is aging, for sure, but he should have been put on the PP because he can shoot and pass the puck. He can QB a PP. The guy made an entire career of being a high power offensive D. And the Leafs leave him to rot offensively when that was his calling card. Marc Savard must be fired immediately and replaced with somebody who can put OEL’s talents to good use. OEL could have been a difference maker (he was the Panthers top offensive option last year) and yet they simply refused to use him even when the PP had gone static and dry.
EXD – Balinskis vs. Myers
Balinskis played one game and scored one goal. Even their blueline depth scores more. Unbelievable.
Bob vs. Stolarz + Woll – Bob
Bob had a rough start to the series and just turned it around as the series went on. He gave up some suspect goals but ended the series with 3 out of 4 games with a .950 SV%. He is currently a steady hand for the Panthers but at his age, this will become the Panthers weakness in the next year or two as he ages out. The Leafs, with Woll, have a playoff performer. If they can keep him healthy, the Leafs will win these future battles in net. Woll gave the Leafs a chance to win most games, even when they gave him nothing in terms of support in Game 5 and Game 7. He stood tall in Game 4 and Game 6. When the pressure is on, Woll is on. They just need to support him better like they did in Game 6. It will simply be a matter of time.
TOR PP vs. FLO PK – FLO
TOR PK vs. FLO PP – FLOLeafs PP sucked balls. Fire Savard. Their PK need work, again, their bottom-six forwards are not good enough at either end of the rink to help the special teams enough. The Leafs are forced to throw their star players out there in so many situations they end up being over worked by the end of the series.
Leafs were absolutely dominated most games at 5v5. Why? Because the Panthers forecheck, much like the Ottawa forecheck, dictates how and where the game is played. Until the Leafs inject the line-up with more guys that can play that style, they will always struggle to come out on top in these tight series, especially when their bottom-six forwards contribute basically 0 goals for and many goals against.
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Luckily, despite all these flaws and mistakes, this Leafs team is the best team we’ve seen in this era.
They won the division. They beat Ottawa (as they should) and got out of the 1st round. They took the defending Champions (two time Finalists) to Game 7. Did they meet the lofty (and exaggerated) expectations of winning a Cup? No. Not yet. But the correct adjustments can make a difference.
1. Fire Shanahan. His time is up. This team needs upper management that understands what it takes to finish building a team. Shanahan has made many mistakes getting us to this point, they can not allow him to continue to throw away this opportunity. With this type of foundation, we should have been looking at multiple Cups. As it stands, they’ll be fortunate if they can squeeze out one.
2. Trade Rielly. If there is to be somebody from the “core” that DESERVES to go, it’s Morgan Rielly. He’s been here the longest and his time is up. The Leafs will never be able to win with a guy like Rielly. He does not provide the Leafs with enough offensive output to compensate for his absolutely horrid defensive ability and his cap hit is unmanageable. It won’t be easy to move him but Vancouver could be a place he doesn’t mind landing. Worse players with worse contracts have been traded before. He can and should be moved.
3. Bye Tavares. He’s older, he’s slower and he’s defensively terrible. Absolutely no team or coach or player looks at Tavares anymore and is worried about that match-up. They know he can’t skate, they know he can’t defend and they know he won’t kill them offensively anymore either. Again, people want to bitch about Mitch in Game 5, 6 and 7? Where was Tavares? He was busy watching the other team score goals while he scored none himself. He was overpaid and underdelivered once before, never make the same mistake twice.
4. Re-sign Marner. He led the team in points, 5 straight 100 point per 82 game seasons and was 2nd in playoff scoring (more than Matthews). Your team will not improve if you let these types of players walk as UFAs. There is no player better (or cheaper) available to replace Marner. The Leafs do not have prospects, they do not have draft picks. They can not afford to lose this much talent. The cap is going up, they can afford to keep Marner and Knies if they trim the fat.
5. Re-sign Knies to a bridge deal. He’s a big body, he scored some goals but he’s not a star yet. Don’t pay him like one. Give him a bridge deal and let him earn it. Don’t pay for the UFA years and worry about his “big” contract when he earns it in the future. The Leafs made the mistake of giving every young player a giant deal way too early. Never make the same mistake twice. If he gets an offer sheet, deal with it accordingly but keep that cap hit low in the short term.
6. Dump Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, Holmberg and McMann. You won’t win in the playoffs with depth players that bring nothing to the table. These guys are mostly overpaid and simply don’t move the needle when it matters. Replace them immediately with guys who bring more size, more aggression and can actually bang in some greasy playoff goals. The Leafs can no longer afford to have their bottom-six provide no offense and expect to win games.
7. Keep finding guys like Pacioretty. Every year, there are former “star” players who are on their back-nine who are more willing to play for a bargain. We see guys like Perry who can still contribute and cost next to nothing. The Leafs need to continue to recruit these guys. Jamie Benn? He might be the next one to fit that mold.
8. Bring in some quality coaches to help fix this team on special teams. Tortz should be at the top of the list. Keep adding guys to the staff who have accomplished something as coaches unlike that fat piece of shit Marc Savard.
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Florida was expected to win this series. I am less upset they lost and more with how they lost. If game 5 and 7 were competitive and had both been losses I would likely be ok.
The Leafs pushed the defending Champs and the superior team to Game 7. But you’re going to bitch about “how” they lost? They shut them out in Game 6 when everybody thought they were dead in the water. A loss is a loss. They got beat by the better team.
I think anyone but a complete moron or troll can see that Marner wants to test free agency. He wants to be the center of attention and he wants to be the star of his team and in the process will probably get $14-15 mil. If he wanted to sign here he would have by now.
The complete morons here are creating a false narrative about Marner being a greedy prima donna attention whore. He wants what he deserves as the leading point producer. Just like the Leafs overpaid Tavares, Matthews and Nylander. Why should he take less as a 100 point player who has to pay ridiculous Canadian taxes?
But somehow, Tavares, who did absolutely nothing in Game 5-7, is old and slow is “Johnny Toronto” because he signed the 2nd highest paid contract in his Leafs pajamas and did nothing for this team except cripple their cap. But he’s the good guy because he’ll take a “discount” and continue to play like shit as he becomes a dinosaur.
Tre has done a fabulous job with Goal and the D in his time so far.. We need to trust that he can do the same to the forward group. He has pulled of trades that nobody saw coming (Carlo) to help the D.
The defense is old, signed long term, offensively useless and Rielly wasn’t traded. Carlo did not move the needle as much as, for example, Seth Jones. Yet, cost almost the same price. Treliving made improvements but not nearly as good as advertised.
The first thing that needs to happen is Shanny needs to go.. He has been a failure here went off the board and hired Dubas who crippled this team by handing out contracts rather than bridge deals and has incubated the coddling of the stars.
Absolutely fire Shanahan. Dubas was an idiot.
Washington and Ovechkin have advanced past the 2nd round 1 time in 20 years
Colorado and McKinnon have advanced past the 2nd round 1 time in 11 years -AzurePerfect undermining of your own argument about the Leafs core players. Winning a Cup is extremely difficult. It takes many, many attempts to even get one successful run. The absolute dumbest thing the Leafs can do right now, with no 1st round picks, no elite prospects and limited options as UFAs is let their 100 point players walk for nothing as UFAs.
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This isn’t some magical curse or some other “fans fault” bullshit excuse. Kids who grew up as the “best” player on their teams don’t experience much of that “dig in and try hard” mentality because its always been easy for them. -underhill14
Remember when you said Seth Jones sucks? Pepridge Farm remembers.
Your logic here makes absolutely no sense. The majority of NHL players were always the best player on their team. That’s why they got drafted. That’s why they’re here. Teams are never going to pass on the best player on any team to pick a 2nd rate player who sucks at hockey but works really hard at being inferior.
Maybe, instead of coming up with these idiotic ideas, look at the actual facts of the matter.
Take Matthews for example…
https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/199898/auston-matthews
There is Matthews’ career profile. Take a good hard look at it. Does it look strange at all to you? Perhaps look at how many “playoff” games he played on record prior to his first professional season in Switzerland. What’s that? He played ZERO playoff games in his life prior to being a professional?
Perhaps, maybe, just maybe, the reason why Matthews drops off significantly in the playoffs is because he never grew up playing playoff hockey the way other kids grew up playing playoff hockey in the OHL / WHL etc. That would actually be a logical reason why he’s struggled to succeed since day 1 of playoff hockey. He’s learning as a pro instead of having his growing pains when he was a teen. It’s a delayed lesson in playoff hockey. But there’s constant improvement.
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Rielly out
Marner outEkblad in
Boeser in
Ehlers inJT either signs for $5M or less, or he can walk.
If Sam Bennett comes in under $7M per, you take him instead.
The rest of the defense stays.
Matthews stays, he’s one of the best goalscorers in the league.
Sign Knies long term. He’s the real deal.
Tinker with the 3rd and 4th lines.
The Goaltending is solid.
Get rid of the dead wood.Kampf gone.
Reaves gone….Robidas Island.
Domi stays.Hope for Easton Cowan to make the jump next year.
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Rielly out
Marner outRielly, yes, Marner, must stay. Can’t replace him for less money. There is nobody available on his level.
Ekblad in
Boeser in
Ehlers inEkblad won’t leave Florida. Why the fuck would he?
Boeser absolutely sucks, -25. Also, not playing in Canada. Why the fuck would he?
Ehlers, soft as baby shit. You’re getting a garbage version of Marner to save what? And again, why would he leave Winnipeg when they went just as far as the Leafs?
JT either signs for $5M or less, or he can walk.
He can walk even at 5 AAV. He’s a horrible player in his own end. Led the Leafs forwards in EVGA. He will not be able to score more than he allows as he ages.
If Sam Bennett comes in under $7M per, you take him instead.
Yes, Bennett is going to cut his value down significantly to make YOU happy.
Why would he leave Florida?
The rest of the defense stays.
Rest of the D sucks offensively and will be dinosaurs really soon.
Matthews stays, he’s one of the best goalscorers in the league.
So, throw Marner to the curb (FOR NOTHING IN RETURN) but Matthews, who disappoints regularly in the playoffs, he’s still the best? Good luck to Matthews in the playoffs without the elite playmaker passing him the puck anymore. I’m sure Matthews will go from 70 goals to 90 goals without Marner…
Sign Knies long term. He’s the real deal.
Define “real deal”. What’s the deal? Next Lindros? How many goals did he score again in Game 5, 6 or 7?
Tinker with the 3rd and 4th lines.
Drop a nuclear bomb on the 3rd and 4th lines. They scored ZERO goals. Get rid of, at least, 4 or 5 of the 6. Domi can stay.
The Goaltending is solid. -PrinceLH
Solidly injured.
Hope for Easton Cowan to make the jump next year.
Good luck with that.
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Marner just had his first 100 point season. Matthews has a Calder, a number of Rocket’s and a Hart Trophy. And Marner has won what trophy, since he came to the NHL? And he wants Matthews money? I think not. He’s too small for playoff style hockey and disappears. He’s known to get primary assists on the opponents goals by puck giveaways and he wants what? Matthews money? No F’n way! If he wants Nylander money, then he signs the identical contract. He won’t. The soap opera will continue. His papa Paul will start giving executive orders to Leafs management, once free agency hits. Marner should go and take the Johnny Gaudreau retirement contract and play in Cannonball City Ohio, or the Great Mormon Tabernacle in Sault Lake City. He needs a good humbling.
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Marner just had his first 100 point season.
Wrong. 5 straight seasons with 100 points per 82 game pace. Marner has been a 100 point producing level player for a long time.
Matthews has a Calder
So fucking what?
a number of Rocket’s and a Hart Trophy. And Marner has won what trophy, since he came to the NHL?
What difference has those trophies made when the playoffs started considering Marner has more career playoff points than Matthews?
And he wants Matthews money? I think not. He’s too small for playoff style hockey and disappears.
So Marner “disappears” but has more playoff points than Matthews both this year and over his entire career. So, I guess, by your logic, Matthews disappears and is more overpaid.
He’s known to get primary assists on the opponents goals by puck giveaways and he wants what?
Primary assist to Matthews on the GWG of Game 6. Guess Matthews would have no problem scoring 70+ goals without an elite playmaker…probably not…
Matthews money? No F’n way! If he wants Nylander money, then he signs the identical contract. He won’t. The soap opera will continue. His papa Paul will start giving executive orders to Leafs management, once free agency hits. Marner should go and take the Johnny Gaudreau retirement contract and play in Cannonball City Ohio, or the Great Mormon Tabernacle in Sault Lake City. He needs a good humbling.
The rest of this is drivel. You got Marner Derangement Syndrome.
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This pretty much sums it up.
Friedman kept saying that Berube would have a big sau in what happens in the off-season. I certainly hope so. He knows better than any of us what is actually wrong with this group and I doubt it is as simple as just let Marner walk for the privilege of overpaying for some new magic beans in FA. -Aetherial
Letting Marner walk as a UFA to sign magic beans sums it up perfectly.
If Marner walks, it will be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the franchise to allow their leading point producer walk for NOTHING.
At 28, Marner is 5th in all-time Leafs playoff scoring. 2nd only to Gilmour in playoff assists.
Watching him win a Cup with another team would be the Leafiest thing imaginable. Kadri 2.0 on steroids.
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If Marner walks, it will be one of the biggest mistakes in the history of the franchise to allow their leading point producer walk for NOTHING.
There is no solution for Marner problem. It is too bad to let him go, but giving him 14 million contract is not much better option.
The outcome will be almost the same, the first round exit. The Leafs will not have enough money under the cup to have respectful bottom six
where top six is not producing when it most needed. And after Tre tried to flip him for Rantanen I am not sure both sides want him to stay here in Toronto. -
There is no solution for Marner problem. It is too bad to let him go, but giving him 14 million contract is not much better option.
The outcome will be almost the same, the first round exit. The Leafs will not have enough money under the cup to have respectful bottom six
where top six is not producing when it most needed. And after Tre tried to flip him for Rantanen I am not sure both sides want him to stay here in Toronto.This team will not improve by letting go your leading scorer for nothing. Also, your leading goal scorer will not improve by losing his #1 playmaker.
The real question is, who replaces Marner? Can anybody name the player that replaces Marner for less money and more production? That player does not exist.
The Cap is going up over 9 million. That means, Knies gets an increase and Marner gets an increase. And it won’t be 14 AAV.
Tavares is the one that needs to go. He’s old, he’s slow and his defense absolutely sucks. He did nothing in Game 5, 6 or 7. He’s done.
Rielly needs to go. That’s more money for the bottom-six.
The bottom-six needs to be fixed, no doubt, but not at the expense of your top line. The Leafs can find bargains. They can’t replace Marner.
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This team will not improve by letting go your leading scorer for nothing. Also, your leading goal scorer will not improve by losing his #1 playmaker.
Unholy_GoalierI agree with everything you said, it will make team worse and they will not find anyone to replace Marner.
That’s why I say it is no win – win solution in this situation.
Once too many bad moves done during rebuild there is no way to fix the roster anymore.
With Marner Leafs more likely to make playoffs, but I don’t expect them to go deep in playoff with Marner or without him,
we been in this scenario often enough.
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I agree with everything you said, it will make team worse and they will not find anyone to replace Marner.
That’s why I say it is no win – win solution in this situation.
Once too many bad moves done during rebuild there is no way to fix the roster anymore.
With Marner Leafs more likely to make playoffs, but I don’t expect them to go deep in playoff with Marner or without him,
we been in this scenario often enough.The Leafs have 26 million in cap space. If they dump Jarnkrok, Kampf and Rielly, that becomes 38 million.
With 38 million, you can sign Marner for 13.5, Knies for 7 and still have 17 million left to sign 3 more 5 million dollar players for the 2nd/3rd line and top-4 D PPQB.
There is enough money. They just have to move it around properly.
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Some people here cannot accept that Marner was offered (as per Dregger) 13.5 x 8 and turned it down,, It was after that Tre approached him about waiving his NMC. He clearly does not want to be hear for is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Good for him.. Do it someplace else.
Marner will be gone by his own choice and that is fine.. The reasoning that they cannot win without Marner is flawed. Where is Florida’s MM? Where is Carolina’s MM?
Seems people say that the Leaf’s can’t win without him but they have not won with him and other teams are winning without him.
Bring JT back if it is a short team friendly deal. Mathews and Nylander are going nowhere unless they want to.
As for Peterson.. He could not handle the pressure in Vancouver in the regular season.. Toronto would crush him.,
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Unholy_Goalie
I think they will sign Marner, they will look too stupid if they not.
They mismanaged their high draft picks terribly and did not develop talent for
years, now they have no picks and no assets.
But it is what it is, I have no exceptions whatsoever, I just don’t believe
it is possible to make roster competitive enough with what they have now.
And how you think they can move Reilly? -
Read this today – hard to argue with this:
You cant argue that Marner wasn’t successful in the playoffs; he had 13 points in 13 games (2G, 11A) but it was his lack of production in Games 5 and 7 that really made fans furious.
Zero points, only three shots, a minus-4 rating. He had only four points the entire series, and did most of his heavy lifting against Ottawa.Marner is gone – the crying and proclaiming they can’t let him go or they are doomed if he goes is just drama and untrue.
Name the “Mitch Marner” type of player on any of the remaining teams for me? If you can name one go ahead and tell me what is different between them and Marner. I think we all know the differences and it’s why he is gone – the Leafs have too much rope and / soft as shit talent so he’s the odd man out being the UFA.
The whataboutism is irrelevant and deflecting.
Yes the rest of the core was shit last 2/3 games (as usual), Marner and JT are the only guys who can be moved / let walk without them having to agree to it.
They can’t afford to keep Marner if he wants more than what Willy makes. That’s the facts, you don’t have to like them but you do have to accept them.
Marner is gone – as a start at least it’s a forgone conclusion. He knows it, he essentially said it on his willing at the end of the game having a pity party and in his post game presser.
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Read this today – hard to argue with this:
You cant argue that Marner wasn’t successful in the playoffs; he had 13 points in 13 games (2G, 11A) but it was his lack of production in Games 5 and 7 that really made fans furious.
Zero points, only three shots, a minus-4 rating. He had only four points the entire series, and did most of his heavy lifting against Ottawa.It’s actually extremely easy to argue it.
Nylander, Tavares and Matthews did fucking nothing in Game 5 and 7.
Guess what? Tavares is older, slower and a bigger defensive liability. On the ice for the most EVGA than any other forward.
Rielly, another “core” player that was a legit pylon for most of the series and has been a common factor in the Leafs inability to succeed in the playoffs.
It’s understandable that fans want changes, they’re simply too stupid to realize which changes will actually work.
Marner is gone – the crying and proclaiming they can’t let him go or they are doomed if he goes is just drama and untrue.
Wrong, it’s factual. Name me the team that drops it’s #1 point producer for nothing in return and does better. Kucherov, the Art Ross winner, has had 0 goals in 10 playoff games vs. the Panthers the past 2 years. Should Tampa Bay be dumping Kucherov so they can sign lesser players to replace him? Your thoughts lack logic.
Name the “Mitch Marner” type of player on any of the remaining teams for me? If you can name one go ahead and tell me what is different between them and Marner. I think we all know the differences and it’s why he is gone – the Leafs have too much rope and / soft as shit talent so he’s the odd man out being the UFA.
Thachuk had 0 goals in the entire series vs. the Leafs.
The whataboutism is irrelevant and deflecting.
You literally just used a “whataboutism” by trying to say there are no Marners left in the playoffs which is idiotic.
Yes the rest of the core was shit last 2/3 games (as usual), Marner and JT are the only guys who can be moved / let walk without them having to agree to it.
So Tavares is gone because at least Marner had a GWG and helped Matthews win Game 6. Again, typical Marner Derangement Syndrome. If he does something positive, it doesn’t count. If the team doesn’t win, everybody else sucks but Marner must suck more.
They can’t afford to keep Marner if he wants more than what Willy makes. That’s the facts, you don’t have to like them but you do have to accept them.
They can absolutely afford to keep Marner, they just have to dump the actually worthless players. If Marner is looking for that increase, you can literally get it from Kampf and Reaves who did not do a damn thing for this team except eat 3 AAV.
Marner is gone – as a start at least it’s a forgone conclusion. He knows it, he essentially said it on his willing at the end of the game having a pity party and in his post game presser.
If Marner is gone, the Leafs will have done what they always love to do; throw their home town boys under the bus and watch them win a Cup somewhere else. Then wonder why it’s been 58 years and counting…
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This team does not work, due to the imbalance of the payroll. You can’t have two right wingers making over $11M each, on long term deals. Matthews is also slightly overpaid, but a year ago, he scored 69 goals. Who’s been even close to this in over 25 years. Also being a centre, he’s worth more than a winger. Tavares is almost spent as an elite player. Yes, he had a good year, but it was a contract year. Is he really still a number 2 centre? His defensive game isn’t stellar. He does win faceoffs, but wouldn’t he be better slotted at 3C? The answer probably would be yes, but then who do we get for a #2? Many questions to be answered this summer. Leaf cannot go forward with both Marner and Nylander at this price point. Leafs are still a good hockey club, but adjustments need to be made.
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Marner is walking. The Leafs no longer have any say in the matter.
The mistakes with the management of this core have been ongoing for nine years.
Marner walking July 1 is not the “mistake” – it’s the cherry on top of an ongoing decade long organizational failure. -Fifty
Best post I have read in a while.
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fifty mission cap
Participant
Marner is walking. The Leafs no longer have any say in the matter.The mistakes with the management of this core have been ongoing for nine years.
Marner walking July 1 is not the “mistake” – it’s the cherry on top of an ongoing decade long organizational failure.
I honestly think Dubas really screwed this team with the contracts of MArner and Matthews along with his trying to reinvent the NHL. Huge failure. That and the core 3 never gelled as one team, they seem to always trying to be outdoing the other….never seem to fight for eachother.
Poor tre only a week when he started before Marner’s no move kicked in. No time to do a proper assessment, but that was the time to trade marner.
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Azure
Participant
Some people here cannot accept that Marner was offered (as per Dregger) 13.5 x 8 and turned it down,, It was after that Tre approached him about waiving his NMC. He clearly does not want to be hear for is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Good for him.. Do it someplace else.Marner will be gone by his own choice and that is fine.. The reasoning that they cannot win without Marner is flawed. Where is Florida’s MM? Where is Carolina’s MM?
Seems people say that the Leaf’s can’t win without him but they have not won with him and other teams are winning without him.
Bring JT back if it is a short team friendly deal. Mathews and Nylander are going nowhere unless they want to.
As for Peterson.. He could not handle the pressure in Vancouver in the regular season.. Toronto would crush him.,
This.
Also, remember when people were saying the canes are going nowhere due to the Rant debacle….well they seem to be doing fine.
Losing marner will be a big hit during the reg season for sure and for the first 4 games of any series….but the leafs havent won with this trio…in fact they havent even come close. They melt down in big games.
Marner isnt worth 13.5m…heck neither is matthews…but we’re stuck with matthews.
If marner takes $11.5…fine…but he wont. His dad is too greedy
If JT will take $5m…great sign him, if he wants more. Walk him.
Trade Morgan, his money can be better spent. -
Marner could re-sign with the Leafs. If they walk from him, I hope there is a clear direction and plan.
But they Leafs need to rebuild the bottom 6, the Panthers crushed them. Floridas top 3 scorers werent a huge factor. head to head against the LEafs top lines. But the bottom 6 couldnt keep up.
If that means spreading Marners money around thats fine also
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Marner could re-sign with the Leafs. If they walk from him, I hope there is a clear direction and plan.
But they Leafs need to rebuild the bottom 6, the Panthers crushed them. Floridas top 3 scorers werent a huge factor. head to head against the LEafs top lines. But the bottom 6 couldnt keep up.
If that means spreading Marners money around thats fine also
~senstrolltwoI think you have to let Marner go to market. The price on him shouldn’t exceed $11.5m. Ultimately we keep hearing from all the agents that taxes don’t matter, so if Rantanen is going to make $12m, he’s the bar. He’s crossed 100pts twice and has had more than 40 goals once and more than 50 goals once and has crossed 30 goals on 4 other occasions. Marner has crossed 100 points once and has crossed 30 goals twice; he prorates to over 100 points 5 times. He’s an excellent player but the Leafs will never insulate him to his best effect. Matthews is big, but he doesn’t play a hard enough game – if anything he’s like having two Marners on the ice at the same time. Knies is one part, but if you really wanted to see a guy like Marner excel, you do need some size around him. People love to shit on me for comparing Marner to Kane, but there are a lot of similarities there. Kane, through his prime years, had 123 points in 127 playoff games. Marner has 63 in 70. But Chicago, at their peak, surrounded Kane with size – guys who were over 6’3 and 210lbs and they used their size to effect. The irony is that for the Leafs to get the guys necessary to elevate Marner, they need to let Marner go.
The other thing that going to market likely does for Marner is that it realistically sets his price. If a cusping or growing team like San Jose or Utah or a good team like Carolina feel that Marner puts them over the top, see what they offer. If the market is that good for him, let him be their problem. I doubt he’d come back once the market set a price for him, but who knows? I still doubt he could command more than Rantanen.
WRT to the bottom-6 – I thought Laughton and Lorentz were generally good – I thought both Jarnkrok and Kampf (in his limited audition) were just plain bad. Most importantly, and probably to your point, I thought the Domi line lacked identity and purpose. Domi isn’t a checking line guy. It’s just not his skillset. I thought Holmberg showed all sorts of effort and a complete lack of execution. McMann had a terrible playoffs and most of the time Domi seemed stuffed between those two.
I do think Robertson has run his course and if they can offload Jarnkrok and Kampf it sure would make sense.
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Those who like Marner and want him to stay are probably in line for disappointment. My gut tells me that he will test free agency and there is a team(s) willing to back up the bank truck for him.
Like Fiddy said above – letting Marner walk is not the mistake, it is the culmination of a decade-long mistake.
I think Tree should do everything in his power to squeeze some assets from this situation. Sign and trade if possible. If not, learn from the mistake of losing an elite (but soft) player for nothing. Epic fail.
Paying Marner $14m – also an epic fail.
This is a no win situation for the Leafs. There is no Marner outcome that will make all sides happy at this point.
I blame ownership and management. The rot has spread upwards and needs to be excised. Shanny should be next.
After shooting Shanny into the Sun, this teams needs a complete retool. I’d keep maybe 5 current players on this roster. The rest can fuck right off.
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I think you have to let Marner go to market. The price on him shouldn’t exceed $11.5m. Ultimately we keep hearing from all the agents that taxes don’t matter, so if Rantanen is going to make $12m, he’s the bar. He’s crossed 100pts twice and has had more than 40 goals once and more than 50 goals once and has crossed 30 goals on 4 other occasions. Marner has crossed 100 points once and has crossed 30 goals twice; he prorates to over 100 points 5 times. He’s an excellent player but the Leafs will never insulate him to his best effect. Matthews is big, but he doesn’t play a hard enough game – if anything he’s like having two Marners on the ice at the same time. Knies is one part, but if you really wanted to see a guy like Marner excel, you do need some size around him. People love to shit on me for comparing Marner to Kane, but there are a lot of similarities there. Kane, through his prime years, had 123 points in 127 playoff games. Marner has 63 in 70. But Chicago, at their peak, surrounded Kane with size – guys who were over 6’3 and 210lbs and they used their size to effect. The irony is that for the Leafs to get the guys necessary to elevate Marner, they need to let Marner go.
The other thing that going to market likely does for Marner is that it realistically sets his price. If a cusping or growing team like San Jose or Utah or a good team like Carolina feel that Marner puts them over the top, see what they offer. If the market is that good for him, let him be their problem. I doubt he’d come back once the market set a price for him, but who knows? I still doubt he could command more than Rantanen.
WRT to the bottom-6 – I thought Laughton and Lorentz were generally good – I thought both Jarnkrok and Kampf (in his limited audition) were just plain bad. Most importantly, and probably to your point, I thought the Domi line lacked identity and purpose. Domi isn’t a checking line guy. It’s just not his skillset. I thought Holmberg showed all sorts of effort and a complete lack of execution. McMann had a terrible playoffs and most of the time Domi seemed stuffed between those two.
I do think Robertson has run his course and if they can offload Jarnkrok and Kampf it sure would make sense.
Marner will get more than 11.5, and he should at this point. the cap is 88, if it hits 100, then 11.5 is the same as 13.06
Fans are going to adjust to higher cap and contract expectations… but fans are generally slow to move the needle on stuff like that-
Marner will get more than 11.5, and he should at this point. the cap is 88, if it hits 100, then 11.5 is the same as 13.06
Fans are going to adjust to higher cap and contract expectations… but fans are generally slow to move the needle on stuff like that
~senstrolltwoSomeone will probably do it – but if Rantanen is worth $12m, why is Marner worth more than $13m? It feels like . . .because Marner was already overpaid at $10.9m, opinion-wise his base increase starts from there instead of his salary being based on what he’s providing.
Since 2021 in the playoffs, Rantanen is 3rd in points/game (1.33). Marner, for the record, doesn’t suck like everyone thinks he does – he’s 21st @ 1.
Since 2021 in the season, Marner is 8th in points/game (1.27). Rantanen is 11th @ 1.22.Now this isn’t fairly equivocal to only look at Rantanen but he is the most recent and there could have been a 1:1 trade for the two players, both in expiring deals, so the equivalence has been set for comparative purposes. People will bring up taxes but as much as perhaps you and I think it matters, all these agents keep publicly saying it doesn’t, so . . .
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with the acquisition of Laughton has made Kampf expendable imo.
I’d like to see Lorentz back as well.Jarnkrok was hurt for most of the season and if the Leafs can move his contract without taken on back would be ok.
I’d see if Pacioretty is willing to com back at 950K
but-out Reaves – ~ 450K for two years or do you let him sit in the minors for the year.not to many C in UFA, I’d bring back JT on a 2 year deal @ a 5M cap hit. If he want a 3 year, Leafs get a lower cap hit ~4.5M
wait and see what the Leafs do now.
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dmnted
Participant
with the acquisition of Laughton has made Kampf expendable imo.
I’d like to see Lorentz back as well.Jarnkrok was hurt for most of the season and if the Leafs can move his contract without taken on back would be ok.
I’d see if Pacioretty is willing to com back at 950K
but-out Reaves – ~ 450K for two years or do you let him sit in the minors for the year.not to many C in UFA, I’d bring back JT on a 2 year deal @ a 5M cap hit. If he want a 3 year, Leafs get a lower cap hit ~4.5M
wait and see what the Leafs do now.
Jarny is a decent contract and when healthy can play up and down the line up.
I agree with JT, but lets be honest, he could easily get more on the open marker…something closer to Stamkos.
Speaking of Stamkos, find out if Marner would sign there. If so, do a sign and trade. MAnrer with 8 year deal plus Morgan for Marchessault, buntin (salary dump) and Lauzon.
Not great for Toronto, but they get Marchessault, an ok 2nd/line 3rd player, a youngish big Dman and cap space. Bunting could be traded for a pick. -
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Thank god for summer…
Here’s my to do list for BT. The Cap is 95.5M …Leafs have 7D and 2G locked up for 32M leaving 63M for the forwards.
1. Create cap space. Kampf and Jarnkrok have July 1 bonus ..after that they become pretty cheap and hopefully moveable. That 4.5M can be (has been) replaced by Holmberg, Laughton, etc…creating extra cap space.
2. Lock up Knies. 5/6 years around $7M seems about right.
3. Lock up the 4th line with size/heavy forecheckers and give them an identity. Lorentz can come back. Find another big/tough winger on the cheap and put Holmberg in the middle. None of them make more than $1M though. McMann-Laughton-Domi get the 3rd line role.
4. Rielly – I’d talk to him about a change/move. If he’s open, shop him, but frankly I don’t expect them to find a match that makes sense.
Okay, the toughest part …
5. Sort out the top 6. They’ve got Knies/Matthews/Nylander signed and about 21.5M to work with for the other 3 slots. Marner/Nylander – If you signed/kept both you’d be left with about $8M to sign the other two top 6 fwds. I think one has to go to create enough room to balance out the middle six. Does MM want to stay …does Willie have any interest in moving away from the noise? Figure it out and do what makes sense. Tavares – for me, he can’t play 18+ minutes at centre in the playoffs. 1 ES point in 7 games …looked slow and couldn’t match up to Lundell or Barkov. He moves to the wing and takes a big pay cut or he moves on. I think he might stay. If he’s in at $5.5M and MM moved on then they’d have about 16M to sign two fwds to play with JT.
The UFA list is pretty shite so the idea of signing MM and JT and trading WN could make a lot of sense. Very unlikely he’d be willing to move but at this point, to make change, you’ve got to ask the question.
Letting MM walk for nothing isn’t a great outcome but in a cap space world you’ve got to pick your spots to spend. BT should be sniffing around the UFA 26′ class to see if anyone’s whispering about not re-signing.
If McDavid wins a cup this year is he more or less likely to re-sign? BT wouldn’t be doing his job if he wasn’t
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McMann-Laughton-Domi get the 3rd line role
This is fine for reg season play. but gets dummied against Florida or another contender
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Ya, lots of reason to be pessimistic but I will say Domi did better than I expected in his minutes, McMann got his first real look and I think he deserves a second kick at the can, and Laughton got buried by Berube in the d-zone. Laughton was a mess those first few weeks on the 3rd line but settled down after that. He’s got enough of a resume (10-15G per year) that I’d try him as 3C with some speed on the wings. Worth a look for me …and frankly they’re not going anywhere so you’ve got to find a way to fit them in and make them work.
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Marner is not a guy to build a team around so why pay him like one? He wants to be paid like proven winners and leaders but has done neither.
If they re-sign him (and I am in the camp of do not) it should be for 12M per season max or let him walk. He’s not in the same tier as the guys he thinks he should be paid like. Let his ego deal with that fact and that Matthews makes more than him (as a centre should) but he can jack it at night knowing he makes more than the other soft but skilled winger (who aside from this year actually shows up in games 5,6,7).
Marner is too soft physically and emotionally to be compared to almost anyone at the salary he reportedly thinks he’s worth. Yes Willy is soft too but he wasn’t looking for 13M + was he?
Yes MLSE has overpaid all 3 of the core forwards and also Reilly clearly but that doesn’t change the situation they are in now.
And yes other players on the leafs check some or all of those boxes – the Captain hasn’t led them to where they need to get to not been good in elimination games until game 6 this year and then no-showed for game 7.
None of that is a good excuse to not do the right thing now to crate a more balanced roster & try and fix the mistakes made by prior GM’s.
Going GM mode in video games and brushing off the financial constraints and no trade clauses like it’s nothing is a fools game. Marner leaving and maybe JT leaving or coming back at 50% of his current cost are the moves they can make and should make now if they want to rebuild on the fly and balance the roster.
Teams that win aren’t afraid to make difficult and bold moves, the Leafs have made zero of those in the near decade with this core.
Monkey I shit on you every time you compare Showtime Kane to Marner for good reason – they aren’t the same players. Kane produced when the chips were down and led that team with Towes where Marner has not. You can blame the roster construction as much as you want winner find a way to win – Marner simply hasn’t IMO.
It’s not the job of the Leafs to build a roster to insulate a small, skilled winger in Marner but even if it is why is he now asking for $ exceeding the franchise player? He’s only restricting their ability to do so if they chose to more.
Marner (and Matthew and Nylander & Reilly) all got paid for delivering jack shit. This is the biggest problem and the bar was set and these clowns just keep one upping each other every salary negotiation, leveraging the other core players salary and MLSE stupidly continues to play that game.
Matthews is arguably the only one of those salary extensions that is defendable simply because of the fact he a franchise centre.
IMO you simply can’t compare what Chicago did to ensure Kane had success to what Toronto has or hasn’t done for Marner for 2 big reasons:
1. Kane and Towes got their huge salary AFTER delivering in Chicago. The entire “core” in Toronto got their’s based on achieving nothing & that is the fault of MLSE (Shanny, Lou, Dubas). This brain trust thought they could get ahead of the curve by overpaying in advance and I guess they thought that would save some $ after the core delivered. As we all know all too well that was a horribly flawed strategy and then later on Covid / flat cap and well here we are.
2. Chicago dumped huge dollars into 2 contracts in Towes and Kane. Toronto decided to do it into 4 in Matthews, Marner, JT and Willy. Also MLSE’s fault but the presumed greed of the players (which has some merit based on hold outs and fairly public negotiations with a-hole parents and agents) sure didn’t help.
So here we are and I can only hope MLSE will eat crow and make the difficult but necessary moves to try and make this team balanced to get to the next level.
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It’s probably career suicide but if I was Marner I would take a 1 year deal with the leafs for the same money. Show the leaf fans you can play ball and not demand the most money. It will probably help his mental struggles as well.
Then next year be better in the playoffs and take your big contract. It might help the future ticket if he can perform well.
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It’s probably career suicide but if I was Marner I would take a 1 year deal with the leafs for the same money. Show the leaf fans you can play ball and not demand the most money. It will probably help his mental struggles as well.
Then next year be better in the playoffs and take your big contract. It might help the future ticket if he can perform well. – Bryant
I dont think it’s career suicide. Guy put up a 100 points. If he gets close to it again then I am sure there’s a team out there willing to pay him a fortune for that kind of production. There’s a lot of teams who would trade for the leafs season this year… some owners definitely want those playoff gates. So I agree! Marner for 10 million. 1 year.
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nice to see not every post is about how bad Willy is and how good Mitch is.
Nylander should not be traded. But Marner shouldn’t be allowed to walk for nothing either.
Absolutely everybody crying about Marner’s “big game” production has failed to realize that Nylander did nothing in Game 5, 6 and 7. Neither did Tavares. In fact, their line was on for most of the goals against in this series. Defensively, they were horrid and preyed upon.
Marner had a GWG against Florida and a primary assist on the GWG in Game 6. They did not win the series but he did contribute to game winning events.
The Leafs lost this series because their bottom-six forwards absolutely sucked. Marner, and the top line, won 3 games with their production.
Leafs fans are correct that this team needs change but unfortunately too stupid to know which changes will actually make a difference.
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@Uggie ….it’d be nice to keep both 88 and 16 but the math ain’t mathing in their favour. IF they give Knies and Marner their raises they’d only have about $8M to sign a pair of second liners to play with 88 ….and that’s after cutting Reaves, Kampf and Jarnkrok’s $$ (fingers crossed) ….and that assumes they spend no money on the bottom 6.
They need a couple of Alpha’s in the mix to help all these elites get over the hump.
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FIRSTIES!!!????
what’s up hb fam?????????
i got banned by ek until mid august for posting:
FIRST!!!
any habs rumours!?!
nuff said
lololololo????
~SkalapyIt too ya long enough. I’d say with a few exceptions we got the god squad of posters here, lets keep it that way.
Just need a little more Mr. Sir around here.
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It’s probably career suicide but if I was Marner I would take a 1 year deal with the leafs for the same money. Show the leaf fans you can play ball and not demand the most money. It will probably help his mental struggles as well.
Then next year be better in the playoffs and take your big contract. It might help the future ticket if he can perform well. -bryant
He already did that this year. He led the team in scoring despite Matthews A) missing games B) being injured and C) playing like shit.
He scored 100 points. He killed penalties. He was 2nd in Leafs playoff scoring, scored a GWG and assisted the GWG (so two GAME WINNING EVENTS) against the Panthers.
He is 2nd all-time in Leafs playoff assists.
They only thing he did not do this year was beat the Panthers and go on to win the Cup. But that’s something that NOBODY on this team did either.
And that’s not Marner’s fault. The bottom-six sucked. Why? Because the Leafs love wasting time, money and picks on pylons like Holmberg, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves, Robertson, Laughton etc.
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It’d be nice to keep both 88 and 16 but the math ain’t mathing in their favour. IF they give Knies and Marner their raises they’d only have about $8M to sign a pair of second liners to play with 88 ….and that’s after cutting Reaves, Kampf and Jarnkrok’s $$ (fingers crossed) ….and that assumes they spend no money on the bottom 6.
They need a couple of Alpha’s in the mix to help all these elites get over the hump.
The math works perfectly fine if they make the correct moves.
Knies needs to take a bridge contract. He’s been good but hasn’t proven anything to warrant buying his UFA years at a premium price. Keeping his deal to 3-4 years keeps his cap hit low enough and allows him to hit UFA status faster. We can deal with his next contract when the cap is even higher.
These stories that Marner turned down 13-14 AAV are bullshit. He would take 12-13 AAV. Everybody assumes he is being greedy and wants maximum money. Nobody is considering that maybe there are some rotten apples on this team. The “passengers” that Matthews spoke of is who Marner doesn’t want to play with anymore. That could include all the names we expect like Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves, Holmberg etc. These are the guys scoring ZERO goals in the bottom-six but taking up cap space and providing nothing in playoff value.
Next to go, Rielly. Vancouver or Seattle could be a landing spot for him and his NMC. The “core” includes the longest serving player. It sucks trying to move a guy at his lowest value but if they can clear his salary and bring back even just a secondary player or depth D, they’d be coming out ahead. They can replace him with a UFA easily.
Next, Tavares has to go. Even at 5 AAV, he’s not worth it anymore. At his age, he’s slow and defensively a net negative. I’d take him at a ridiculous price like less than 5 AAV but he can’t be the 2nd line center anymore. He simply can’t be trusted to play top-six minutes without being caved in defensively. Maybe he could be considered a 2LW if he has a really good two-way center. But his best days are behind him for what we need him to do in the playoffs.
This team doesn’t get better by losing it’s #1 point producer for nothing. Nobody can name the players that want to come to Toronto, on a discount, to provide a bigger impact.
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Stamkos is a good comparable for Tavares. Both had solid productive seasons in their contract years. Briesbois lowballed Stamkos because he knew Stamkos was in decline. Stamkos left to chase money and ended up in Nashville without Kucherov to feed him delicious Royal Road passes on the power play. Look at what happened. His production plummeted. He went on a brief heater towards the end of the season that made his numbers look slightly less terrible, but for most of the year he was caved in and provided almost nothing.
Tavares is in a similar spot. He no longer drives play and needs elite linemates to prop him up. He’s pretty much a 2W or 3W at this point in his career. If Tavares will stay for $3-5m on term less than 3 years, then keep him. Put him on the wing and use him on special teams.
Marner is a fucking gone pecan. May as well start dream-spending that cap space now because he’s on the first plane out of Toronto. Leafs aint getting back squat either – just to add insult to injury. No sign and trade. I hope I’m wrong.
Everyone stop with talk about Reilly and Benn – those guys are also on the wrong side of the aging curve. Reilly and Benn of 5-10 years ago, hell yeah. Now, not so much. Maybe grab Poon Jenner cheap to fill the dinosaur sandpaper grit snot role.
SHOUT OUT to that man mountain of neck meat that showed up – SKALAPY!
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The band is almost back together. HHS Gain is HB’s loss. It’s like watching a suicide in real time happening over there. The discussions in here are a breath of fresh air, without the nonsense and harping going on. It’s actually fun again. Slowly, but surely, all of the best Bloggers from over there are now coming here. A few more tweaks, and this site will be ready to soar. Just have to get some of the smaller market threads to come over. Hablanders haven’t migrated as fast as I’d like to have seen quite yet. It’s only month 1 and all seems grand.
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Exactly 6 weeks till July 1st, then a lot of our questions will be answered. Personally, I think Marner walks and JT signs a really team-friendy deal. Tre brings in one forward that has that dog in him to hopefully light a fire under these soft-ass bitches.
Oh, and Carolina is finding out that there are levels to this. I’d be surprised if they got it to game 6.
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Exactly 6 weeks till July 1st, then a lot of our questions will be answered. Personally, I think Marner walks and JT signs a really team-friendy deal. Tre brings in one forward that has that dog in him to hopefully light a fire under these soft-ass bitches.
Oh, and Carolina is finding out that there are levels to this. I’d be surprised if they got it to game 6.
People, in general, keep saying Marner is going to walk and new guys will be coming in. But nobody ever mentions what new guys will be coming in or why they will want to come in or at what price they will come in at. Please, somebody, anybody, answer these questions. Who do the Leafs sign that actually wants to play in Toronto for 13 million and will give us more than what we already have with Marner? Name them. Price them. Explain why they would even dream of playing here.
Also, the logic that Tavares, should return, at a reduced price, makes no sense. If Marner is deemed so bad in Game 5, 6 (even though he helped win it) and 7 that he should be let go for nothing how is Tavares perfectly fine to stay as long as he comes at half the price? Sorry guys but he could play for 5 million, if he disappears, he’s useless. Additionally, if he’s paid and plays in the top-six but is constantly on the ice for goals against, stuck in his own zone more than half the time, why do we want him to return? To get older? To get slower? To be even worse?
Carolina could get swept. Then people might realize how good Florida really is and how close the Leafs actually were to the 3rd round and perhaps beyond.
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Re: UG
I have no clue who is going to come in and why they would want to, that’s Tre’s job. You’re probably not going to replace Marner’s 100 points, even if you replace him with two guys, but that doesn’t necessarily make this team worse.
Regarding JT vs Marner and disappearing acts, yes, I would much rather be paying JT $5M to disappear vs Marner at $14M to disappear.
The main point I was trying to make was that Marner is going to choose to leave no matter what the Leafs do, so they have to pivot.
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I have no clue who is going to come in and why they would want to, that’s Tre’s job. You’re probably not going to replace Marner’s 100 points, even if you replace him with two guys, but that doesn’t necessarily make this team worse.
Well let me give you an insight into Tre’s job; there’s nobody out there. The guys you want won’t sign here, they will stay with Florida. The guys you can convince to come here will be paying more taxes, dealing with more pressure and you have to overpay to come here like they did with Tavares who “took a discount” and still ended up being the 2nd highest paid player in the league.
Regarding JT vs Marner and disappearing acts, yes, I would much rather be paying JT $5M to disappear vs Marner at $14M to disappear.
Marner helped win 2 games against Florida. Tavares won 0. Probably lost them at least one with his defensive ineptitude. Sorry, I’m paying the player in his prime who is showing he makes YOUR BEST SCORER BETTER and NOT the guy on the WRONG SIDE of 35 just because he wears Leafs jammies and comes at a “discount”.
As I showed in the other thread, the Leafs top line went tit for tat with Florida’s top line. It was Tavares’ line that got caved in more often than not. So, if your goal is to beat Florida, you keep that 1st line the way it is and change everything else. That’s what a logical person would do.
Fuck. Tavares.
The main point I was trying to make was that Marner is going to choose to leave no matter what the Leafs do, so they have to pivot.
Marner is not going to leave unless they push him out the door. Matthews doesn’t want him gone. Berube doesn’t want him gone. Marner doesn’t want to leave. If he did, he would have accepted the trade to Carolina, taken the contract, had less idiot fans screaming at him for things that aren’t his fault and still be in the playoffs right now. Clearly, he does not want to choose to leave unless forced to do so.
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If Marner truly wanted to stay, why wouldn’t they already have worked out an extension? It’s six weeks till he’s a UFA, I think he tests the market.
If he stays, how long do we keep running back the same team before we realize it’s fucking insanity?
And what would you do to get this team to the next level?
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If Marner truly wanted to stay, why wouldn’t they already have worked out an extension? It’s six weeks till he’s a UFA, I think he tests the market.
Because I believe he wants the team to get rid of the passengers. He also doesn’t want to get ripped off by taking some kind of discount only to get stuck with the same pylons.
Also, playing in Toronto means if he gets 13 million per year, he’s actually taking home 6.158 million. If he had gone to Carolina, he’d make 7.7 million. Over 8 years, that’s a 12.4 million dollar difference. That’s not pocket change. He doesn’t have the benefit of Matthews who collects 90% of his money in Arizona.
If he stays, how long do we keep running back the same team before we realize it’s fucking insanity?
Getting rid of the entire bottom-six, Tavares and Rielly is not “running it back”. You keep your best players, you change the rest. The D (minus Rielly), the goaltending and the top line, works. The rest, must change.
And what would you do to get this team to the next level?
You keep your best players and you add what you can. Eventually, Florida will cap itself out and Bob will get old. Just like Boston did. Tampa Bay is already on the way down. The rest of the division is either too weak or too young to threaten us just like this team was when they first tried to beat Washington and Boston.
My initial idea is this…
Morgan Rielly $7.5 M
to VAN for Teddy Blueger $1.8 M + Tyler Myers $3.0 M + sign Brian Dumoulin $2 M
OR ALTERNATIVELY
to SEA for Jamie Oleksiak $4.6 + sign Sean Kuraly $1.5 M + sign Brent Burns $2 M
Calle Jarnkrok $2.1 M + David Kampf $2.4 M to CBJ for Boone Jenner $3.8 M
McMann $1.4M for Pospisil $1 M
Mitchell Marner
$13,160,000 × 8 yearsMatthew Knies
$6,500,000 × 3 yearsReilly Smith
$5,000,000 × 3 yearsBrian Dumoulin OR Brent Burns
$2,000,000 × 2 yearsSean Kuraly OR Blueger @ $1,800,000 in the Rielly trade.
$1,500,000 x 2 yearsBrandon Tanev
$900,000 × 2 yearsSteven Lorentz
$900,000 × 2 yearsMax Pacioretty
$900,000 × 1 yearsKnies | Matthews | Marner
Smith | Jenner | Nylander
Domi | Laughton | Tanev
Pacioretty | Blueger OR Kuraly | Pospisil
LorentzOEL | Tanev
McCabe | Carlo
Dumoulin | Myers OR Oleksiak | BurnsWoll | Stolarz
That is my first glance at the UFA / trade possibilities.
This team is larger, tougher, meaner in the bottom-six and on the blueline. Adding some motivated veterans. Some, with Cup experience, others, with hunger for a last chance.
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A huge part of the Panther success right now is that their blue line jumps into the rush better than anyone. Jones killed us ..Ekblad is always jumping in …last night I’m watching Mikkola jump by wingers and drive the net. Maurice is a beauty.
@Uggie …if MM signs for that then I agree, do it. No way Jarnkrok and Kampf get you Jenner though …that’s a dream. Krok gets his bonus July 1 and then you can move him for a 5th rounder …maybe. Kampf gets his bonus on July 1 then maybe you snag a career AHL’er for him b/c there’s dozens of Kampf’s available this summer for $1M and he costs twice that.
If Rielly will move on …perfect. I don’t need much back at all just to move that contract. Lots of better and/or cheaper options available.
Tanev needs to be a Leaf.
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Lawsie
Participant
A huge part of the Panther success right now is that their blue line jumps into the rush better than anyone. Jones killed us ..Ekblad is always jumping in …last night I’m watching Mikkola jump by wingers and drive the net. Maurice is a beauty.@Uggie …if MM signs for that then I agree, do it. No way Jarnkrok and Kampf get you Jenner though …that’s a dream. Krok gets his bonus July 1 and then you can move him for a 5th rounder …maybe. Kampf gets his bonus on July 1 then maybe you snag a career AHL’er for him b/c there’s dozens of Kampf’s available this summer for $1M and he costs twice that.
If Rielly will move on …perfect. I don’t need much back at all just to move that contract. Lots of better and/or cheaper options available.
Tanev needs to be a Leaf.
The biggest part of the panthers success is that their bottom 6 contributes on the scoresheet…..the leafs bottom 6 really dont that much.
The leafs lack quality depth because so much of their cap is tied up in 5 soft players (MM, AM, Willy, JT and MR)…the four forwards are very similar…too similar and all want to outdo the other and be the top guy. Not a team.
The leafs have to free up money for better depth. ITs been 10 years with these 4 players (AM, MM, Willy and MR)….and they’ve had no post season success. They need change. Big change.
Also, leafs management and coaching staff are relatively large compared to others…..line that out as well. Too many opinions and wasted money. -
Morgan Rielly $7.5 M
to VAN for Teddy Blueger $1.8 M + Tyler Myers $3.0 M + sign Brian Dumoulin $2 M
OR ALTERNATIVELY
to SEA for Jamie Oleksiak $4.6 + sign Sean Kuraly $1.5 M + sign Brent Burns $2 M
Calle Jarnkrok $2.1 M + David Kampf $2.4 M to CBJ for Boone Jenner $3.8 M
McMann $1.4M for Pospisil $1 M
Mitchell Marner
$13,160,000 × 8 yearsMatthew Knies
$6,500,000 × 3 yearsReilly Smith
$5,000,000 × 3 yearsBrian Dumoulin OR Brent Burns
$2,000,000 × 2 yearsSean Kuraly OR Blueger @ $1,800,000 in the Rielly trade.
$1,500,000 x 2 yearsBrandon Tanev
$900,000 × 2 yearsSteven Lorentz
$900,000 × 2 yearsMax Pacioretty
$900,000 × 1 years
UGTanev isnt signing for $900…he’s 33 and currently makes $3.5m…..minimum would be 2.5-3m per.
Dumoulin also makes over $3m per currently and is 33.
Reilly smith had 29pts last year…..$5m per for that? Thats a bad contract….he’s also 34
Marner turned 13.5 x 8 …..but all of a sudden he’s going to take 13.1? Dont offer him anymore than 12 per.Its just not reality.
The leafs dont have to replace marners points this off season and it wont be replaced by 1 person. It could partially be replaced by one UFA, this off season and another at the TDL or next off season. The crop of UFAs seem a little better next year if they make it to UFA (I think Mcdavid signs and extension with the oilers)Morgan has to be moved out and you are not getting value for him.
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Morgan Rielly is going to be wearing a Leaf sweater for three more years, and the sooner we all accept that the better off we’ll be. Whipper
If he chooses to go it wouldn’t be for spare parts. He still would get a reasonable return. He’s an “offensive” dman with 3 years signed for fair value. A team out there would take him as a way to hope he pushes them to the playoffs.
The biggest part of the panthers success is that their bottom 6 contributes on the scoresheet…..the leafs bottom 6 really dont that much. – Fakey
For whatever reason all the depth scoring dried up beyond round 1 pretty much. However, I thought Tree was “masterful” in changing this part of the roster? ( You didn’t say that. I am just stating how others believe it was the best)
My opinion is it’s shuffling deck chairs and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.
Anyway, same as all the other times. I rather have the last 9 years than the previous 9 years of futility before it. Playoffs are way more fun than being bottom feeders.
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If the Panthers cruise past the Canes in 5 does that change a bit of the bad taste the Leafs fans have?
like maybe with a few tweaks they can come back stronger?
Run it back!!
~SenstrollInteresting point by Senstroll over in Shittsville, errr, HB. This is what I’ve been saying to everyone that’s been trolling me offline, (mainly Oiler fans). I said even before the playoffs started that Florida is the best team in the league and is VERY likely to go back-to-back. They should (like the Leafs would have done too), roll over Carolina and then the Cup finals may be a coin flip. Losing to the back-to-back Cup winners is nothing to scoff at. Florida is just built different, they’re built for playoff hockey and could beat just about any team in the cap-era in a 7 game series.
Ideally for me, (a long-suffering Leaf fan living in Alberta), Florida absolutely steamrolls Carolina, Dallas beats the Oilers as fast as possible, then Florida dummies Dallas. Then I can say to Oiler fans that they lost to the team that lost to the team that JUST barely beat us. (Mind you, Florida showed in games 5 and 7 just how far ahead of us they really are).
In other news, if you’re reading through the HB thread, if you just ignore any comment by ‘that guy’ or anyone responding to him, you can fly through the thread pretty quick.
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Ok I’ll say it – why are we obsessing about replacing Marner’s 100 points? He played PP1 and was the set up guy at the top of the PP umbrella so he racked up assists there as well as playing on L1 99% of the season with Matthews.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to score, IMO Marner needs a sniper to score for him to rack up points.
Blaming the bottom 6 for the Leafs losing this series is about as stupid as blaming the fanbase for fuck sakes.
For anyone in love with this top 6 that’s fine they are amazing players it makes sense.
BUT
If you can’t get past that and don’t see any reason to change them enjoy never seeing this team get deeper in the playoffs than they have at this point.Just because someone thinks the core needs to be broken up and sees the 2 UFA’s as the easiest pieces to move to gain valuable cap space to strengthen the bottom 6, and toughen up the top 6 with a small change in some personnel doesn’t make them a ‘hater’ of a player, nor does it make them any less of a fan.
The entire concept of simply swapping out the bottom 6 with the belief this will allow the Leafs to success is a severly flawed plan in itself. Layer in unrealistic components of this plan such as a bottom 6 winger making 3.5M is suddenly going to agree to take 900K or that multiple players with full no movement clauses are going to magically agree to waive them just amplifies how insanely flawed this plan is.
Morgan Rielly would be great to move but it’s hard to even think he would agree to be moved for a minute.
Matthews being moved would be a colossal mistake, quite possibly the worst trade mistake the Leafs could every make in their history. Top line, 2 way centres who have shown they can score 50 or more goals are true unicorns. Should he be captain? Perhaps not but it’s the way the NHL has shifted the captaincy on most teams now where your ‘top player’ has to be your captain and it’s dumb but the Leafs couldn’t afford to not make that move really – who else did they have they could have given the C to? Rielly? They probalby should have left it with JT and then even gone with 4 A’s until it became clearer but here we are.
JT can come back on the cheap and save this team a lot of money, provide veteran leadership & retire a Leaf.
Willy just locked in for 8 years and it’s hard to think he would even consider a move – it’s obvious he loves Toronto.
I asked this before and the poster I asked it of course ignored the question but I’ll ask it again:
Who is the Mitch Marner on the most successful teams in the league? Who is Florida’s Mitch Marner for instance?
Who is their uber talented, soft and small playmaking (because he seems to have an aversion to shooting) winger making 11M and looking for 13 (likely more) per season long term who has proven to be ineffective *(like others yes)* in series clinching games and struggles mightily under that pressure?
Teams can’t afford to have a 13.5M franchise centre & 2 wingers making over 11M and balance the roster to have the grit, toughness and scoring they need to be successful in playoffs – that’s been proven by the Leafs to be an ineffective strategy.
Chicago with Towes and Kane is a great example – only having those 2 monster contracts allowed them to fill out a balanced roster with unreal supporting players, D etc.
If the Leafs re-up Marner and have Matthews at 13.5, Willy at 11 and Marner at 13 or more IMO we call all just expect to see more of the same come playoffs and that will just be the cherry on top of a wasted era.
I can’t wait to see what the situation is on July 2nd.
If this team doesn’t break up some of the core (and just losing JT isn’t making any change when you have Marner with his hand out for more and know Knies needs more because you can’t lose him) I won’t be happy at all.
If they traded Rielly and/or traded Willy and kept Marner and got a good return I’d say they parted ways with the wrong winger but I’d at least be happy they made a big move. Asking guys to waive no trade’s and having them say no is not making a move it’s exploring options, so if one or more of Marner, Willy, Rielly aren’t in a new team uniform next year then IMO the Leafs have failed and are destined to continue to not be good enough to be a top 4 team in this league.
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Cush you make some good points.
I will say this. Management are the ones to look at this through objective eyes and make changes. I rely on them to not overreact/over correct as many fans want. I have seen many, many fans saying to rebuild it and move Matthews because “he’s shit”.
Like let’s try to be positive? Leafs have 9 consecutive years in the playoffs, including years they weren’t expected to make it. They also have shit the bed a bunch too.
Recently they’ve lost to the panthers 2 out of 3 years in the 2nd round. Florida is becoming a “dynasty” type team. It still sucks and you gotta beat the best but this is where I have to agree I don’t see the killer instinct. Leafs had plenty of chances, like the Canadian division to make a run and couldn’t muster that instinct.
As for Rielly, I wouldn’t be opposed if he decided to leave or stay. Doesn’t matter to me. JT can come back. He’s been an effective 2nd liner, just needs a cheap contract. Marner I think he explores the free agency but who really will pay him 14 million?
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I’ll add something additional. Considering Carolina and Florida both are “built the right way” and one of them has to lose this series like, you can build “tough” but it doesn’t matter because 31 teams a year lose. Colorado and the Blues and Kings all built the same way. Fuck the Oilers aren’t and they are in conference finals back to back years.
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I’ll add something additional. Considering Carolina and Florida both are “built the right way” and one of them has to lose this series like, you can build “tough” but it doesn’t matter because 31 teams a year lose. Colorado and the Blues and Kings all built the same way. Fuck the Oilers aren’t and they are in conference finals back to back years. -Aaron
Is Carolina built ‘the right way’ though? They struggled to score a lot all season and it may come to bite them in the ass now we will see.
I also feel like the Canes were riding super hot goaltending in Freddy that might be coming down to earth (Where have we see that before?) and Florida just has more scoring power than they do.It’s game 1 so it’s early and Canes have one of if not the best motivating coaches in the NHL so I expect them to come out alot differently in game 2. Flordia was riding the game 7 win high and Canes were rested but cold. I think game 2 is a lot closer and different but Florida is so unpredictable who knows – they looked dead in the water vs the Leafs until the 3rd period really of game 3 and then they were the Florida team from last year.
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Florida is now the ‘template’ teams will build around and they used the Tampa template, who used the Boston template.
Nobody is mimicking what the Leafs have done for nearly a decade now & quite honestly to some degree Toronto was stupid and arrogant to think it would work and as much as we want to blame Shanny or Dubas specifically for trying to be creative and do something never done before that’s not entirely accurate. Toronto followed the old Oilers template just with more success but not enough.
Oilers drafted in the top 3 for several years landing Hall, RNH, Yakapov etc. and sure they made some terrible picks but they kept drafting high skill and no real grit guys and failed. Dubas had some quote about drafting for skill and trading for grit – that is 100% the old Oilers and they failed. The Leafs had better options and drafted better but they are what most organizations who are looking to re-build now or soon are looking at and saying “Jesus boys lets make sure we draft to try and balance our roster not like what the Leafs did”.
Boston, Tampa, Florida – all highly successful for years – all more successful than Toronto.
Time to stop trying to guess what the answer on the test is and copy someone else’s work (or in this case move stuff around to try and get it as close as you can to their work).
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Aaron
Participant
I’ll add something additional. Considering Carolina and Florida both are “built the right way” and one of them has to lose this series like, you can build “tough” but it doesn’t matter because 31 teams a year lose. Colorado and the Blues and Kings all built the same way. Fuck the Oilers aren’t and they are in conference finals back to back years.Not sure carolina is built the right way….I havent heard anyone say that.
But the leafs template hasnt worked in 9 years. You need top end scoring, depth scoring, big quality D, good goaltending and a willingness to consistently fight for every inch of the ice. The leafs have improved big quality D (although they are older) and good goaltending.-
Not sure carolina is built the right way….I havent heard anyone say that.
But the leafs template hasnt worked in 9 years. You need top end scoring, depth scoring, big quality D, good goaltending and a willingness to consistently fight for every inch of the ice. The leafs have improved big quality D (although they are older) and good goaltending. – FakesieThe talking heads and pundits who talk about them at all, cause let’s face it it’s Carolina and nobody gives a fuck, talk about how they run 4 lines, they are all hard working, north/south guys and they play an “even better” team defense than Florida does. On paper they should be a better shut down team than Florida.
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Like let’s try to be positive? Leafs have 9 consecutive years in the playoffs, including years they weren’t expected to make it. They also have shit the bed a bunch too.
~AaronInteresting to note, in those 9 years, 5 of the teams that eliminated the Leafs (assuming Florida does this year), went on to the Cup Finals. That’s not nothing.
Yes, the Leafs need some drastic changes up front, but holy shit this team is close. If they hadn’t shit the bed in game 7 at home, I think they’re in the Cup Finals. Tre came in to a bit of a shit show, and in just two years he’s shored up our D and tendies. Give him another year, maybe two, to get the forwards figured out, and I think we’ll see more success. Winning in professional sports is hard as fuck. The Wild have been eliminated in the first round 8 straight years, but nobody talks about that because they’re not the center of the hockey universe.
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Cush.
Not sure marner needs a sniper to get points. Every playmaker needs a finisher and goal scorers need playmakers to get them the puck.
Everybody Marner has played has improved their scoring. I dont think Matthews gets to 69 without him and Marner doesnt get to 100pts without Matthews. But I think both could get close to those numbers if they didnt always play with eachother. They work great together. But youre a bit onsided against marner.What I find funny, is that Marner scores more without Matthews and Matthews has more assist withour Marner.
Here is an excerpt from a sportsnet article.
“What stands out to me most are the goals-to-assist rates.When Matthews is with Marner, he scores at nearly a 2:1 ratio of goals to assists, which is insane. In an admittedly small but relevant sample, Matthews has had more assists than goals without Marner. His points-per-game go up as well, and Matthews still scores at a 53-goal pace.
Marner also gets more points without Matthews in this limited sample, and it seems like he takes on more scoring responsibility without him. With more total points, Marner goes from scoring at a 0.3:1 goals-to-assist rate, to a scoring pace that would net him a 50-goal-season, as unsustainable as that may be.”
In the article they have a comparison chart. I couldnt paste the chart in here.
I hope the link works. Its from Feb 2025And yes, more skilled bottom 6 depth could have changed the tide in the leafs favour….had Lorentz scored on his breakaway it may have altered the game a bit. Panthers bottom 6 got to the leafs. Again no one said its the only reason, but it is part of the reason.
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Forget about goals and assists for a minute, I’m shocked that Berube didn’t separate AM and MM for DEFENSIVE purposes. The JT line was getting their faces caved in for most of the playoffs, why not switch MM and WN to get a little more defensive prowess on the second line?!? Mitch is a superior defender to Willy, I figure the switch was worth a look.
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Fake – I think the problem (or the why to what you find funny) is these 2 guys just default to Marner to set up Matthews when they play together for the most part, if they were more of a 2 headed threat to score then teams would have a much harder time to defend them but they simply aren’t and IMO never will be.
Teams play Marner to pass to Matthews and Matthews to shoot when fed by Marner but when you separate them both appear more willing or able to do what they don’t do often enough when they play together (Matthews set up someone else / Marner to finish). This is one of the reasons why I have always preferred them on separate lines.
As far as me being too one sided towards one guy over the other ok fair but I’ll always be one sided towards a 2 way #1 centre who can score 50 + goals almost every year in his prime when healthy over a talented winger – most people would regardless of the names on the jerseys no?
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The talking heads and pundits who talk about them at all, cause let’s face it it’s Carolina and nobody gives a fuck, talk about how they run 4 lines, they are all hard working, north/south guys and they play an “even better” team defense than Florida does. On paper they should be a better shut down team than Florida.
~AaronCarolina is going to get steamrolled worse than the Leafs did. Florida is simply on another level above every team in the league. Back-to-back Champs, book it.
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As far as me being too one sided towards one guy over the other ok fair but I’ll always be one sided towards a 2 way #1 centre who can score 50 + goals almost every year in his prime when healthy over a talented winger – most people would regardless of the names on the jerseys no?
~Cush29I think it’s a big factor that Matthews was battling injury all year, literally from training camp. It sometimes takes years for players to learn how to win. Sid didn’t win shit until he did. Ovi didn’t win shit until he did. MacKinnon didn’t win shit until he did. It’s a shame that Matthews was nowhere near 100%, because this really could have been the year that things finally clicked.
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Aaron
ParticipantThe talking heads and pundits who talk about them at all, cause let’s face it it’s Carolina and nobody gives a fuck, talk about how they run 4 lines, they are all hard working, north/south guys and they play an “even better” team defense than Florida does. On paper they should be a better shut down team than Florida.
Ah ok, I see what you’re saying. Honestly, I havent seen any of the canes games and no idea how their play is structured and I havent heard too many peeps talk about them. However, I dont listen to a lot of talking heads outside of kyper and bourne and the Overdrive guys and anytime they discuss a non canadian team…I kinda just switch the channel. LOL
All I know, is the canes are rocking without Rant but they have Freddy in net…so at anytime….they could implode
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Ah ok, I see what you’re saying. Honestly, I havent any of the canes games and no idea how their play is structured and I havent heard too many peeps talk about them. However, I dont listen to a lot of talking heads outside of kyper and bourne and the Overdrive guys and anytime they discuss a non canadian team…I kinda just switch the channel. LOL
All I know, is the canes are rocking without Rant but they have Freddy in net…so at anytime….they could implode – Fake
lol so what you’re saying is the average view of how anyone listens to anything about Carolina. hahaha. They certainly aren’t a team anyone really talks about.
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Cush29
Participant
Fake – I think the problem (or the why to what you find funny) is these 2 guys just default to Marner to set up Matthews when they play together for the most part, if they were more of a 2 headed threat to score then teams would have a much harder time to defend them but they simply aren’t and IMO never will be.Teams play Marner to pass to Matthews and Matthews to shoot when fed by Marner but when you separate them both appear more willing or able to do what they don’t do often enough when they play together (Matthews set up someone else / Marner to finish). This is one of the reasons why I have always preferred them on separate lines.
As far as me being too one sided towards one guy over the other ok fair but I’ll always be one sided towards a 2 way #1 centre who can score 50 + goals almost every year in his prime when healthy over a talented winger – most people would regardless of the names on the jerseys no?
I think you pointed something that is very true, AM and MM seem to default to eachother. MArner needs to shoot more and matthews could pass more.
One that was pointed out in the article was that the powerplay seems to be better when one of Marner or Matthews is missing.
Oh Im all for keeping a scoring center over a winger…for sure. Im just not sure Matthews is as much as a stud without marner long term.
Im really hoping Im wrong, cause we’re about to find out what life is like without marner.
I like all 3 core players (WN, AM, MM) and I would like to keep all of them….I just dont think its wise as it pertains to cap allocation as they simply cant get their shit together when it counts. -
I think it’s a big factor that Matthews was battling injury all year, literally from training camp. It sometimes takes years for players to learn how to win. Sid didn’t win shit until he did. Ovi didn’t win shit until he did. MacKinnon didn’t win shit until he did. It’s a shame that Matthews was nowhere near 100%, because this really could have been the year that things finally clicked.- Whipper
I agree. It sucks he was injured how long he was injured for. I wish he sat for longer if need be. They didn’t NEED to win the division if it cost them a healthy Matthews.
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Tanev isnt signing for $900…he’s 33 and currently makes $3.5m…..minimum would be 2.5-3m per.
Dumoulin also makes over $3m per currently and is 33.
Reilly smith had 29pts last year…..$5m per for that? Thats a bad contract….he’s also 34
Marner turned 13.5 x 8 …..but all of a sudden he’s going to take 13.1? Dont offer him anymore than 12 per. -FakeTanev will sign cheap. He’s at the point in his career where he’s going to sign just to play for the Leafs and with his brother. He scored 0 points in 13 playoff games this year. And he had 10 goals and 22 points in the season. He’s a 4th line role player. If he wants to play here, 1 million is the max.
Dumoulin is going to make the same. He’s not a big offensive player and in his 30s. If he doesn’t want to sign for 3, there’s other guys that will. He’s just a replacement on the left side for Rielly.
Smith had 40 points, you don’t know how to count. And he’s got 80+ career playoff points. He can be a 20 goal 50 point player and provide playoff offence. Also, he’s from Mimico so it could be “coming home time”. Might have to overpay him a touch though because he really does enjoy Vegas. Don’t blame him either.
And you believe Dreger? You’re as gullible as ever.
Oh, come on. You can’t be serious. -Whipper
Jenner is a 40 point, often injured player with 1 year left on his deal. He’s basically a rental at this point. Last year he had 19 points. He’s never had more than 49 in a season. Jenner is what the Leafs need to fill a hole but he’s not McDavid.
Yes, I’m serious. He probably wants out of Columbus and actually have a chance to make the playoffs before he hits UFA status. The Leafs would be giving them two serviceable forwards (30 points + 20 points) who basically provide them with depth while their younger players take on more top-six time.
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Not sure if this will work or not – trying to post the playoff stats for this year of Marner and Willy as a pic. -Cush
Where was Nylander in Game 5, 6 and 7?
Did Nylander score or assist a GWG in the series vs. the Panthers?
Everything idiots bitched about Mitch for, happened with Nylander vs. Florida. He scored early in the series, disappeared when the games got tough, was a liability defensively.
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UG – Just so we are all clear these players are all going to magically take huge pay cuts because YOU SAY SO and everyone who points out that a guy making 3.5M is unlikely to agree to a 900K to 1M salary next year is crazy and wrong and stupid because again YOU SAY SO.
lol
And where was Nylander in games 5 and 7 – classic deflection and whataboutism with a dash of your fav go to – goalpost moving.
I posted a pic of the playoff stats for the entire playoffs to illustrate that there was no more production from Marner (who you keep crying they can’t afford to let go) in this years playoffs than there is from Nylander – in fact there was less.
Nevermind the fact this is the first year that Nylander no-showed in those critical games unlike Marner who has unfortunately made it a yearly tradition in late series games. Don’t believe me? Go look it up yourself.
Nobody said Nylander was good in games 5 or 7 jesus christ stop making shit up.
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Nobody said Nylander was good in games 5 or 7 jesus christ stop making shit up. ~Cush29
Willy has to improve his defensive game, too often standing frozen in own zone with stick in the air and watching the puck.
This is recipe for disaster in playoffs.-
Willy has to improve his defensive game, too often standing frozen in own zone with stick in the air and watching the puck.
This is recipe for disaster in playoffs. ALEX TMLYou won’t get an argument on that point from me!
I have NEVER defended Willy’s defensive game and you have to kinda’ wonder if perhaps Marner goes and Willy moves to L1 if the Captain can impart some more defensive accountability on him by showing him how to do it and actually stepping up as a captain and telling him to do it (along with Berube of course).
Marner’s defensive game is fantastic – sometimes elite (when he doesn’t try to get too fancy) but again in the late series games over the years Willy has been much more dependable and able to deliver offensively than Marner (yes this year being the exception).
Willy at 11M is better than Marner at 13 or more to me from the position of you can only keep one of those 2 – which I firmly believe is the way the Leafs need to proceed.
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UG – Just so we are all clear these players are all going to magically take huge pay cuts because YOU SAY SO and everyone who points out that a guy making 3.5M is unlikely to agree to a 900K to 1M salary next year is crazy and wrong and stupid because again YOU SAY SO.
lol
And where was Nylander in games 5 and 7 – classic deflection and whataboutism with a dash of your fav go to – goalpost moving.
I posted a pic of the playoff stats for the entire playoffs to illustrate that there was no more production from Marner (who you keep crying they can’t afford to let go) in this years playoffs than there is from Nylander – in fact there was less.
Nevermind the fact this is the first year that Nylander no-showed in those critical games unlike Marner who has unfortunately made it a yearly tradition in late series games. Don’t believe me? Go look it up yourself.
Nobody said Nylander was good in games 5 or 7 jesus christ stop making shit up. -Cush
Marner has more career playoff points than Nylander. 2nd to only Gilmour in playoff assists. Marner isn’t the problem. Wake the fuck up.
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Willy has to improve his defensive game, too often standing frozen in own zone with stick in the air and watching the puck.
This is recipe for disaster in playoffs. -alex.TMLWhen people wonder “Why is Marner worth more than Nylander”, other than being a better scorer, this is the difference in price; defense. Marner is a Selke nominee, penalty killer. He went toe to toe with the Panthers top line and they came out even.
Nylander, on the other hand, is spending half the game blowing the zone or reaching with one hand on his stick like a lost puppy while his line looks like they’re on the penalty kill for 2 straight minutes.
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You won’t get an argument on that point from me!
I have NEVER defended Willy’s defensive game and you have to kinda’ wonder if perhaps Marner goes and Willy moves to L1 if the Captain can impart some more defensive accountability on him by showing him how to do it and actually stepping up as a captain and telling him to do it (along with Berube of course).
Marner’s defensive game is fantastic – sometimes elite (when he doesn’t try to get too fancy) but again in the late series games over the years Willy has been much more dependable and able to deliver offensively than Marner (yes this year being the exception).
Willy at 11M is better than Marner at 13 or more to me from the position of you can only keep one of those 2 – which I firmly believe is the way the Leafs need to proceed.
While I would keep both Marner and Nylander, the Leafs would still be better off re-signing Marner and trading Nylander in terms of asset management.
The Leafs can’t afford to lose their leading scorer, 100 point, two-way player, for nothing. They have no picks, no elite prospects and no reasonable or logical UFAs to replace him. If the Leafs lose Marner, Matthews will be worse and the entire team will be worse.
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Marner has more career playoff points than Nylander. 2nd to only Gilmour in playoff assists. Marner isn’t the problem. Wake the fuck up.
For starters I was talking about this years playoffs – a fact you just blasted by while moving your goalposts again but not surprising because it didn’t fit your narrative.
You also know I’m sure that Marner has a whopping 5 more playoff points than Nylander and has played 3 more career playoff games right? Now your talking about most playoff assists vs points and using that to say what that Marner is more valuable because he has 60 playoff assists? Nylander is 12th in all time playoff assists by the Leafs and tied for 5th (with Matthews) behind Clark, Sundin, Keon, Kennedy and Armstrong. What does any of this prove other than the fact both Marner and Nylander have had great careers as Leafs?
What the biggest issue for many is with Marner is were in a series he gets his points it’s no secret it’s not games 5-7.
Which one of those 2 wingers is going to be paid 11M next year and which one is going to want 13M or more? The Leafs can’t afford to keep both unless they are playing video games and in GM mode and paying 3.5M players 900 K.
Maybe you should wake the fuck up and follow the conversation.
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While I would keep both Marner and Nylander,
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the Leafs would still be better off re-signing Marner
and trading Nylander in terms of asset management.
The Leafs can’t afford to lose their leading scorer, 100 point, two-way player, for nothing. They have no picks, no elite prospects and no reasonable or logical UFAs to replace him. If the Leafs lose Marner, Matthews will be worse and the entire team will be worse.
This is absolutely laughable you sound like AA now, again I ask who is the Marner of Florida? The soft skilled winger who shrinks in games 5-7 and will be paid like a top 3 or 4 player in the league?
The Leafs can afford to lose some of the offense that Marner brings (in the regular season and early games in playoff series) if they can get a more balanced roster with more grit and grind in them – Marner (nor Willy) is that player and neither ever will be.
Asset management?
11M for a pure goal scoring winger who you can try to develop into a better defensive player and outside of this year is a clutch playoff performer who is locked in at 11M for 8 years is a far greater asset than a UFA winger who wants 13 M + and again has year over year not been able to deliver come late series games. Do you actually think Marner can overcome his faults as a Leaf if he got signed to an even bigger salary than he has just got? What progress has he shown to make you think that’s possible?
Let’s not skip past Marner screaming at his bench to wake the fuck up with his dry hair while having a terrible game 5 and 7 himself – great leadership.
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For starters I was talking about this years playoffs – a fact you just blasted by while moving your goalposts again but not surprising because it didn’t fit your narrative.
This years playoffs? You mean the one where Nylander disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7 against the Panthers? Oh right, you want to be a little bitch about “moving goal posts” but will happily do it for Nylander because it fits YOUR narrative. Accusing others of what you do yourself. Big surprise here.
You also know I’m sure that Marner has a whopping 5 more playoff points than Nylander and has played 3 more career playoff games right? Now your talking about most playoff assists vs points and using that to say what that Marner is more valuable because he has 60 playoff assists? Nylander is 12th in all time playoff assists by the Leafs and tied for 5th (with Matthews) behind Clark, Sundin, Keon, Kennedy and Armstrong. What does any of this prove other than the fact both Marner and Nylander have had great careers as Leafs?
How many goals against has Nylander been on the ice in his playoff career? I’m going to guess a lot (57 EVGA, most since 2015/2016 among Leafs)
There isn’t much use in scoring if you’re giving up as many as you score.
What the biggest issue for many is with Marner is were in a series he gets his points it’s no secret it’s not games 5-7.
Nylander did not have a GWG or a single point in Game 5, 6 or 7. Marner showed up, Nylander didn’t.
Which one of those 2 wingers is going to be paid 11M next year and which one is going to want 13M or more? The Leafs can’t afford to keep both unless they are playing video games and in GM mode and paying 3.5M players 900 K.
Marner is the better player. Better off keeping both but if it was one or the other, Marner wins every time. He’s a complete player.
Maybe you should wake the fuck up and follow the conversation.
Maybe you should take a step back and fuck your own face.
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Islanders rumored to have permission to talk to Shanahan. I guess they saw a decade of failure and thought, “we need some of that here.”
Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Also, Kraken granted permission from Leafs to speak with Lambert. Can they take Savard instead?
Leafs trade Shanahan for the rights to Lou.
Full circle.
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This is absolutely laughable you sound like AA now, again I ask who is the Marner of Florida? The soft skilled winger who shrinks in games 5-7 and will be paid like a top 3 or 4 player in the league?
Nylander disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7 this year. Keep repeating it because you’re dense. Reinhart and Marner were basically even but you’re too blind to see it.
The Leafs can afford to lose some of the offense that Marner brings (in the regular season and early games in playoff series) if they can get a more balanced roster with more grit and grind in them – Marner (nor Willy) is that player and neither ever will be.
More career points and playoff points than Nylander.
Asset management?
11M for a pure goal scoring winger who you can try to develop into a better defensive player and outside of this year is a clutch playoff performer who is locked in at 11M for 8 years is a far greater asset than a UFA winger who wants 13 M + and again has year over year not been able to deliver come late series games. Do you actually think Marner can overcome his faults as a Leaf if he got signed to an even bigger salary than he has just got? What progress has he shown to make you think that’s possible?
Nylander absolutely sucks defensively. If that hasn’t changed by now, it never will. He disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7. Maybe it will sink in soon…probably not though…
Let’s not skip past Marner screaming at his bench to wake the fuck up with his dry hair while having a terrible game 5 and 7 himself – great leadership.
Oh, his hair was dry…oh no…what a sin. Nylander never has dry hair…
You’ve gone full retard by the way.
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A couple of you are busy fighting about this, but this is the data behind it since the real core group started together with the Leafs in 2016.
Using 5v5 stats only in the playoffs –
Morgan Rielly is +14 (60F / 46A)
Mitch Marner is +13 (46F / 33A)
Auston Matthews is +8 (47F / 39A)
William Nylander is +1 (43F / 42A)
John Tavares is -8 (25F / 33A)In terms of G/60:
Marner: 2.54 F / 1.82 A
Rielly: 2.66 F / 1.99 A
Matthews: 2.52 F / 2.09 A
Nylander: 2.63 F / 2.57 A
Tavares: 2.01 F / 2.65 AIf you’re really getting into yet another Marner vs. Nylander argument – last year and 2019 were the only two playoff years that Nylander outperformed Marner in terms of his offensive output outweighing defensive liabilities.
But this really shouldn’t be about one vs the other. We know what they all bring to the table and we know what their liabilities are. Nylander will provide game breaking moments and Marner will provide more and sincerely better versatility.
The fact that in these playoffs Marner took elbows to the head, shots after the whistle and Nylander often just skated away and rarely to be seen in any of this answers the question as to whether Marner will deal with it.
But if Marner’s salary demands are in excess of $12m, the answer has to be no. If they sit in the same range as Nylander’s $11.5, you should try to figure out how to do it. Of course this also should note that if I were Mitch Marner and the entirety of Leaf Nation was booing me out of town, I’d go and make sure my new team beat the shit out of them when we played.
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A couple of you are busy fighting about this, but this is the data behind it since the real core group started together with the Leafs in 2016.
Using 5v5 stats only in the playoffs –
Morgan Rielly is +14 (60F / 46A)
Mitch Marner is +13 (46F / 33A)
Auston Matthews is +8 (47F / 39A)
William Nylander is +1 (43F / 42A)
John Tavares is -8 (25F / 33A)In terms of G/60:
Marner: 2.54 F / 1.82 A
Rielly: 2.66 F / 1.99 A
Matthews: 2.52 F / 2.09 A
Nylander: 2.63 F / 2.57 A
Tavares: 2.01 F / 2.65 AIf you’re really getting into yet another Marner vs. Nylander argument – last year and 2019 were the only two playoff years that Nylander outperformed Marner in terms of his offensive output outweighing defensive liabilities.
But this really shouldn’t be about one vs the other. We know what they all bring to the table and we know what their liabilities are. Nylander will provide game breaking moments and Marner will provide more and sincerely better versatility.
The fact that in these playoffs Marner took elbows to the head, shots after the whistle and Nylander often just skated away and rarely to be seen in any of this answers the question as to whether Marner will deal with it.
But if Marner’s salary demands are in excess of $12m, the answer has to be no. If they sit in the same range as Nylander’s $11.5, you should try to figure out how to do it. Of course this also should note that if I were Mitch Marner and the entirety of Leaf Nation was booing me out of town, I’d go and make sure my new team beat the shit out of them when we played.
The Leafs are stuck between a rock and hard place.
But Marner is worth the 13 x 8. The first reason being he’s entering his prime and has been an 100 point per 82 game player for 5 years in a row. He also makes your #1 shooter, goal scorer, a better player both offensively and defensively. Additionally, that high price tag is simply the price of doing business in Toronto after what it costs him in taxes. And finally, who replaces Marner’s production on the UFA market or within the Leafs prospect system? The salary cap is going up by leaps and bounds for the next couple of years.
It’s a shitty price to pay but there simply is not a better option at the moment. Retain the asset, move forward accordingly. Trade Rielly, let Tavares walk.
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Hey UG maybe you need a snickers?
Thanks for telling me to go fuck my face & accusing me of moving goal posts – perhaps you want to go back and read what I wrote when I posted the playoff stats of both wingers from this playoff season. You quoted me for god sakes – all the while you keep moving goal posts.
Here let me help you:
Not sure if this will work or not – trying to post the playoff stats for this year of Marner and Willy as a pic. -Cush
THIS YEARS PLAYOFFS
You get so upset when anyone points out flaws in your plans or god forbid drops some facts into the equation that you go full ballistic and start to call people names like retard and tell them to go fuck their face. Maybe the internet it not your thing? Great choice of an insult by the way – super mature of you.
So you refused to answer one poster repeatedly who asked a simple question and are doing the same when I ask what other team has a MM type player or even to tell me who Florida’s is. They don’t have one is the answer but you resort to “Willy was terrible in games 5-7” which has zero to do with my question and is nothing more than deflection and denial.
Perhaps you haven’t read all of what I wrote today – Nylander was defensively terrible in games just like Marner , nobody is denying that fact & in fact I said it already so why are you now telling me to repeat it and calling me dense? lol
Side note – yes Marner got 1 point (a pedestrian assist) in games 2-7 inclusive THIS YEAR, Nylander 0 – what a staggering difference.Both sucked and disappeared in games 5-7 THIS YEAR so not sure why you keep harping about it, especially when many including me have acknowledged it multiple times.
It’s pointless to even try to have a balanced, rationale discussion with you because you make shit up, move goal posts, set your feet and stomp and cry when facts are presented to you.
You may want to tone down the personal attacks, not sure what Mike’s stance is on all of what you have thrown out there today but it’s a bit much and childish to be honest.
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Hey UG maybe you need a snickers?
Maybe you need a clue.
Pointless drivel
Blah blah blah. Waste of time.
So you refused to answer one poster repeatedly who asked a simple question and are doing the same when I ask what other team has a MM type player or even to tell me who Florida’s is. They don’t have one is the answer but you resort to “Willy was terrible in games 5-7” which has zero to do with my question and is nothing more than deflection and denial.
Reinhart. Answered it twice now but perhaps you might not be able to read all that well. Tkachuk, by the way, had 0 goals vs the Leafs. Is he a passenger now? Marner went tit for tat with Reinhart both offensively and defensively. Marner actually went beyond Reinhart because his play directly won his team 2 games. Reinhart didn’t even have one GWG in the series.
Perhaps you haven’t read all of what I wrote today – Nylander was defensively terrible in games just like Marner , nobody is denying that fact & in fact I said it already so why are you now telling me to repeat it and calling me dense? lol
Marner is not terrible defensively, the stats clearly show that.
Side note – yes Marner got 1 point (a pedestrian assist) in games 2-7 inclusive THIS YEAR, Nylander 0 – what a staggering difference.Both sucked and disappeared in games 5-7 THIS YEAR so not sure why you keep harping about it, especially when many including me have acknowledged it multiple times.
Stole the puck, primary assist on the GWG. It’s only pedestrian in your mind because it annihilates your garbage narrative. Marner had a GWG and a primary assist on the Game 6 game winner. Nylander had nothing. Your entire garbage argument is built on the lie that Marner disappears in elimination games, but when he showed up and Nylander did not, it some how doesn’t count or matter because Nylander’s hair is moist or something stupid.
It’s pointless to even try to have a balanced, rationale discussion with you because you make shit up, move goal posts, set your feet and stomp and cry when facts are presented to you.
It’s indeed pointless because you’re very bad with dealing with reality.
You may want to tone down the personal attacks, not sure what Mike’s stance is on all of what you have thrown out there today but it’s a bit much and childish to be honest.
You got back what you dished out. Don’t bitch about it now.
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Marner is gone.
It sucks. Love him or hate him, he’s gone.
Worse, the Leafs aren’t getting shit back. Maybe a pick if they do a sign and trade, but that extra year isn’t getting you a treasure haul.
So, instead of debating whether or not he may go, or should he go, or what should we pay him, it might be more productive to start wish-spending all that sexy cap space that is the consolation prize for mismanaging an elite player.
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Marner is gone.
That’s not 100%.
It sucks. Love him or hate him, he’s gone.
Worse, the Leafs aren’t getting shit back. Maybe a pick if they do a sign and trade, but that extra year isn’t getting you a treasure haul.
So, instead of debating whether or not he may go, or should he go, or what should we pay him, it might be more productive to start wish-spending all that sexy cap space that is the consolation prize for mismanaging an elite player.
There is nobody out there that will actually want to leave their superior team (Florida UFAs) for less money who will provide better results. People can wish all they want, there isn’t anybody out there. And the people who REALLY want to wish need to start praying for McJesus.
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There is nobody out there that will actually want to leave their superior team (Florida UFAs) for less money who will provide better results. People can wish all they want, there isn’t anybody out there. And the people who REALLY want to wish need to start praying for McJesus. – Uggie
It’s not 100% that he’s gone, but if I was a gambling man, that is where the safe money would be. That Utah mountain air, low taxes, and anonymity is mighty enticing, along with $14m per and finally being “The Man(tm)”. Most signs point to a farewell.
We’re in agreement on replacing his production – they won’t, or at least not with this current crop of UFAs or realistically-available trade targets.
The Leafs are right fucked on this one.
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It’s not 100% that he’s gone, but if I was a gambling man, that is where the safe money would be. That Utah mountain air, low taxes, and anonymity is mighty enticing, along with $14m per and finally being “The Man(tm)”. Most signs point to a farewell.
We’re in agreement on replacing his production – they won’t, or at least not with this current crop of UFAs or realistically-available trade targets.
The Leafs are right fucked on this one.
Marner genuinely wants to stay in Toronto. If he didn’t, he’d already be in Carolina, making more money and still in the playoffs. He chose to stay.
Everybody says his family controls his life but they’re going to control him to go away from where they all live? Doesn’t add up.
Marner wants what he deserves, as every single player does even when they lie that they don’t, and he wants to stay with the Leafs.
Matthews is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Nylander is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Tavares was allowed to be overpaid disappear as long as he takes a “discount” on his next deal.
But Marner? He’s a weak, soft, crying, greedy bitch.
Overwhelming evidence shows most Leafs fans and media need a lobotomy including Rick Vaive who pretends he’s some kind of Cup winning playoff legend when he talks shit about Marner.
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Marner genuinely wants to stay in Toronto. If he didn’t, he’d already be in Carolina, making more money and still in the playoffs. He chose to stay.
Everybody says his family controls his life but they’re going to control him to go away from where they all live? Doesn’t add up.
Marner wants what he deserves, as every single player does even when they lie that they don’t, and he wants to stay with the Leafs.
Matthews is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Nylander is allowed to be overpaid and disappear. Tavares was allowed to be overpaid disappear as long as he takes a “discount” on his next deal.
But Marner? He’s a weak, soft, crying, greedy bitch.
Overwhelming evidence shows most Leafs fans and media need a lobotomy including Rick Vaive who pretends he’s some kind of Cup winning playoff legend when he talks shit about Marner. – UG
I’m not plugged in to the TO media, so I don’t read many direct Marner quotes. So, as far as his desires go, I have no idea. I’m speculating and I think that’s all any of us can do.
I’ve never personally insulted Marner or any of the Core. I’ve leveled some valid criticisms at them, but I’m not invested enough to have strong personal feelings about any of these people. I’d like them to win and try harder (be harder to play against?), but I’m not jumping on the abuse bandwagon. When he’s old, retired, his kids grown, and he’s back home in TO(?), how will he be remembered? What regrets (if any) will he have when he looks in the mirror as a 72-year old man? That’s up to him to decide. If he resigns and stays, I will support him and root for him. If he leaves, then I will forget about him 10 minutes later. Well, maybe a couple days later – we’ll have to discuss it to death first. LOL.
And, like I said in the other blog thread, many folks are discounting just how fucking deep and good the Panthers are.
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I will stop the insanity after this post as I’m sure most of the folks here are tired of reading the back and forth but let me set the record straight.
I never intended to make this a Nylander vs Marner argument about ‘who is better’ – its not about that at all.
It’s about who fits into the constraints financially / cap wise that this team has, who leaving will create more cap space to allow the Leafs to better balance this roster & who is easier to move right now.
The answer to the 1st part is Willy at 11M (vs Marner at 13M or more) and the answer to the 2nd one is Marner and it’s also Marner (and maybe JT too) for the 3rd.
Marner is a fantastic player and if it was Willy who was the UFA right now I’d be saying move him FFS – does that make it any clearer that this isn’t me saying Nylander is better (which is a stupid argument since they are much different players who bring much different things to the table really)?
That being said I have posted stats to help show that the entire narrative that Willy is garbage and Mitch is without fault combined with the theory that the Leafs will be doomed and they absolutely can’t part ways with Marner is overblown. Willy has in fact produced more in games 5-7 than Marner (Monkey you continually ignore this fact and it’s the basis for much of the dislike for Marner’s game from many) so I guess that’s giving the “Willy vs Mitch” vibe and sure it’s reactionary to hearing the whining about a Nylander shift but not acknowledging the mistakes Marner made but good lord they are facts not fabricated things I’m saying to try and ‘prove’ something – facts prove them already.
I call BS that this team can’t succeed without Marner, they may have to change the way they play (which they have started already & can continue to, it’s why I kept asking where Florida’s Mitch Marner type of player was or any other highly successful teams Marner type of player was. None of those teams have both a Marner and Nylander type at the salary that Nylander and Marner made this year, never mind what Marner’s next salary is – it’s too much of the same, soft thing do we not all see that at this point?
Side note – Sam Reinhart makes 8.625 M per year until 2031 – 2032.
Marner made 10.9 M per year from 2019 to 2024 and wants more now.If there was no cap OR the core players didn’t each saddle up to the bar and take every last penny available to them vs leaving some on the table to allow more for the things they don’t have then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion but they didn’t and we are where we are.
I will say it now – if they bring Marner back at 12 M I think they will continue to have the same issues but I could be wrong and I’d happily admit to being wrong but i just don’t see it happening. Just because JT leaves – there are other guys who need more and will demand it (Knies and eventually your goaltending etc.).
Last thing – UG your claim that I “got back what I dished out & shouldn’t bitch about it now.” is just pure bullshit.
You spiraled into personal over the top insults and the behaviour of a teenager going full rage mode not me. Seriously who even uses retard anymore in their vocabulary? Grow up.
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Overpaying ANY player for continuing to disappear in critical games is super problematic and the result of a mistake or multiple mistakes being made.
Not taking advantage of an opportunity to try and correct one or more of those mistake because you made the same ones in the past is just plain stupid as fuck.
Leafs have an opportunity to try and start the repairs to the damage from these mistakes with Marner and JT.
They should have started earlier with others (they never should have put themselves in that position either) but that’s in the past and you can’t change it now.
I hope they will do the difficult but right thing but fear they will do the easy and wrong one.
Again.
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Blah blah blah pointless drivel -Cush
More garbage…
Overpaying ANY player for continuing to disappear in critical games is super problematic and the result of a mistake or multiple mistakes being made.
Nylander disappeared in critical games and is a disaster defensively. But your solution is to let the better player walk for nothing and keep the inferior player. Sounds like a plan excellently made for more 1st round exists.
Not taking advantage of an opportunity to try and correct one or more of those mistake because you made the same ones in the past is just plain stupid as fuck.
How dare you use a term like “stupid as fuck”. That’s highly offensive and not on the list of permissible PC vocabulary. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Leafs have an opportunity to try and start the repairs to the damage from these mistakes with Marner and JT.
The “mistake” was Tavares.
They should have started earlier with others (they never should have put themselves in that position either) but that’s in the past and you can’t change it now.
Yes, you could change it now. You could sign the better player and trade Nylander. Since you insist you can’t have both (which is wrong), they could retain Marner and trade Nylander. At least, in that scenario, they don’t lose a 100 point player FOR FUCKING NOTHING and can get assets in return for Nylander, which at this point, might be the biggest yield they could ever get for him.
I hope they will do the difficult but right thing but fear they will do the easy and wrong one.
Again.
They will do what they also do; the dumbest possible thing. And you will love it.
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I can’t wait until this core is broken up and the endless, pointless, and exhausting Marner vs Nylander argument is gone for good.
Can’t wait for the team to get significantly worse?
The Nylander vs. Marner debate occurs because the Leafs created this mess when they signed Tavares.
If they let Tavares walk and trade Rielly, they can change the core without losing their best players for nothing.
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I’m not plugged in to the TO media, so I don’t read many direct Marner quotes. So, as far as his desires go, I have no idea. I’m speculating and I think that’s all any of us can do.
I’ve never personally insulted Marner or any of the Core. I’ve leveled some valid criticisms at them, but I’m not invested enough to have strong personal feelings about any of these people. I’d like them to win and try harder (be harder to play against?), but I’m not jumping on the abuse bandwagon. When he’s old, retired, his kids grown, and he’s back home in TO(?), how will he be remembered? What regrets (if any) will he have when he looks in the mirror as a 72-year old man? That’s up to him to decide. If he resigns and stays, I will support him and root for him. If he leaves, then I will forget about him 10 minutes later. Well, maybe a couple days later – we’ll have to discuss it to death first. LOL.
And, like I said in the other blog thread, many folks are discounting just how fucking deep and good the Panthers are.
The Leafs media is a combination of idiots and vultures. They feed off this for views and clicks because that’s all they have left to grasp at. No different than garbage corporate legacy media that basically only the boomers watch. They also own the team so perhaps they think they can bully their way into making Marner do what they think he should do in attempt to win the PR battle so if he does walk away, the team can save itself the embarrassment by trying to make him the bad guy. There are former players like Rick Vaive, who didn’t win shit in Toronto as a Leaf, talking shit in the media. Fans piling on because they are in pain and not smart enough to think for themselves.
The Leafs won the division, won a round (against the hated but tough Senators) and took the defending Champs and seemingly the best team in the NHL to Game 7. Marner directly helped win 2 out of the 3 games they won, one of which was in an elimination game. This year was an obvious improvement. And these morons are acting like they were a draft lottery team and the whole thing needs to be blown to hell.
Fire Shanahan, bring back Mark Hunter.
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The Leafs media is a combination of idiots and vultures. They feed off this for views and clicks because that’s all they have left to grasp at. No different than garbage corporate legacy media that basically only the boomers watch. They also own the team so perhaps they think they can bully their way into making Marner do what they think he should do in attempt to win the PR battle so if he does walk away, the team can save itself the embarrassment by trying to make him the bad guy. There are former players like Rick Vaive, who didn’t win shit in Toronto as a Leaf, talking shit in the media. Fans piling on because they are in pain and not smart enough to think for themselves.
The Leafs won the division, won a round (against the hated but tough Senators) and took the defending Champs and seemingly the best team in the NHL to Game 7. Marner directly helped win 2 out of the 3 games they won, one of which was in an elimination game. This year was an obvious improvement. And these morons are acting like they were a draft lottery team and the whole thing needs to be blown to hell.
Fire Shanahan, bring back Mark Hunter. – UG
I see progress in the right areas under Tree’s tenure so far. It’s far from perfect, but I see better moves happening than I did under Dubas.
The Leafs hadn’t made it past the first round in forever, then they slayed the Lightning and exorcised that demon. Now the fans reasonably expect the second round to be the minimum bar to avoid pitchforks and torches.
The Leafs just took the defending champs to seven games and even had the champs on the ropes in game 3 and couldn’t FINISH HIM. Frustrating? Fuck yes. Is it progress? Yes.
I’ll say it again. Florida is a fucking buzzsaw, a steamroller, a murderer’s row of depth. Pick your fucking poison with those guys. They match up well against any team in the league. I don’t think Carolina, Dallas, or Edmonton can beat them. I think Dallas has the best shot. I think Edmonton *could* if they had a goalie, but won’t happen with the parade of fail they have between the pipes.
As far as continuing to improve the Leafs, I think pain is coming first. Losing Marner for nothing but cap space is gonna hurt, but let’s spend some cap space.
Outside of Marner, the list of 2025 pending UFAs is a lot of dinosaurs and nobodies. Boeser is probably the best option that isn’t a geezer. Then Ehlers, Bennett is not coming to TO, Tanev might but he’s a member of AARP. MacTavish would be great, but you’re gonna overpay to pry him away from Anaheim.
Looking at it some more, the free agency route looks depressing. It might be better to look at trades.
Tampa is probably shopping the rights to Isaac Howard, FWIW.
Actually, the more I think about this, the worse it seems. If the Leafs lose Marner, then it’s going to be a step backwards. 2026 looks a lot better for UFAs. So, maybe a big step back next year before a leap forward the year after?
Yup. Pray for McJesus. LOL.
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Marner will get more than 11.5, and he should at this point. the cap is 88, if it hits 100, then 11.5 is the same as 13.06
Fans are going to adjust to higher cap and contract expectations… but fans are generally slow to move the needle on stuff like that
~SenstrolltwoI think that’s the point that everyone is trying to make. Rantanen JUST signed his extension for $12M, so that’s the benchmark. Everybody knew the cap was going up next year, and now there is even more uncertainty regarding the cap rising due to economic factors. So, if anything, Marner should have even less leverage as we might be back in a slow rising cap situation for the next few years.
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Marner earning even the same as Rantanen let alone more is absolute folly. There is zero justification for it.
It’s time for Tree to grow a set with both Marner and JT and give them the Stephen Stamkos treatment: here’s the number, take it or leave it. We’ll see how badly they want to be Leafs.
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Marner earning even the same as Rantanen let alone more is absolute folly. There is zero justification for it. – 50 Mission Cap
But what about Marner deserving MORE than Rantanen? Some folks seem to think he absolutely must be paid whatever it takes to keep him……yes I’m being silly by asking you this.
For what it’s worth I agree with you that Rantanen is the bar and Marner is beneath that bar but I’m not sure Marner or his agent see it that way.
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Marner genuinely wants to stay in Toronto.
~UGI’m not so sure that is the case anymore after he’s gotten the brunt of the hatred for the Leafs’ failure this year (whether deserved or not).
I do believe Marner at one point did want to stay in Toronto, but he also wanted to be the highest paid player in the league, or at least get a $2M+ raise. He simply can’t have both. Rantanen is the comparable, and he’s absolutely smoked Marner in playoff production so far this year. Pay Marner accordingly. While it would suck to lose a player like Marner, it would suck 10x more to be paying him $14Mx8 with a full NMC and get the typical disappearing act. We need to shore up the bottom 6, and giving Marner well over half our current remaining cap would be insane.
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The Leafs media is a combination of idiots and vultures. They feed off this for views and clicks because that’s all they have left to grasp at. No different than garbage corporate legacy media that basically only the boomers watch. They also own the team so perhaps they think they can bully their way into making Marner do what they think he should do in attempt to win the PR battle so if he does walk away, the team can save itself the embarrassment by trying to make him the bad guy. There are former players like Rick Vaive, who didn’t win shit in Toronto as a Leaf, talking shit in the media. Fans piling on because they are in pain and not smart enough to think for themselves.
The Leafs won the division, won a round (against the hated but tough Senators) and took the defending Champs and seemingly the best team in the NHL to Game 7. Marner directly helped win 2 out of the 3 games they won, one of which was in an elimination game. This year was an obvious improvement. And these morons are acting like they were a draft lottery team and the whole thing needs to be blown to hell.
Fire Shanahan, bring back Mark Hunter.
UGOOOOHHH 9/10 years they made it to game 7 in the second round for the first time…oooooohhh and their stars players were nowhere to be found in game 7.
The stars of this team cant get it together, this was probably the best version of them. Time for a change.
You simply cannot have $40m locked up in 3 forwards who are very similar. You cant win that way. Its been proven.
Time for change.
Unfortunately, Management screwed this team by trading away all their 1st rounder until 2028…so they cant even do a quick one year retool and get a nice prospect.
They are now stuck with having to try to get into the playoffs….so, let marner walk, move out morgan if you can, If JT will take $5m, sign him for 3 years. Build out the bottom 6, get a winger to play the top line and another quality D.MArk hunter? LOL, What a joke.
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Someone posted this article here I think and I just read it.
The lessons the Maple Leafs must learn from their latest playoff disappointment
If you haven’t it’s a great read and breakdown of the huge differences between Florida and Toronto as far as how the 2 teams are constructed from a cap distribution perspective and (IMO) is a bang on evaluation of why Toronto simply can’t compete with teams that use their cap space this way vs how Toronto has.
Which ties into the need for Toronto to drastically change how they spread out their cap dollars if they want to get to the next level.
I also got some insights I was not aware of like after game 2 Florida adapting by moving their top D pairing to match up against the JT / Nylander line and have their 2nd pairing match up vs Marner and Matthews. That should have resulted in a mismatch in Toronto’s favour but it never did.
I like the mention that the Leafs coaching staff perhaps need to be more Jon Cooper / Paul Maurice like and whine more about officiating – as pathetic as that sounds it has worked and since the NHL can’t figure out how to get officiating straightened out perhaps public shaming the on ice officials is the only way teams can try to ensure a more fairly officiated game.
I mean these 2 paragraphs kinda’ say it all no?
The Leafs’ whole model is based on paying their top players massive dollars to dominate their matchups. This is really nothing new to anyone at this point; their eggs are in a top-heavy basket, and when the top six is up a grand total of one goal over seven games, the Leafs will lose the series.
The Panthers’ bottom six should be better because they pay them a lot more money. Florida’s third line, even with Marchand’s salary 50% retained, costs more than the entire Toronto bottom six.
You have to also think that (since home ice didn’t mean jack shit) the Leafs perhaps should have put Matthews on LTIR and used that money at the TDL to bulk up like Florida did but that’s spilt milk at this point.
The Leafs didn’t lose because of one player, or even one thing (i.e. Stolarz being knocked out of the series (which he has confirmed was as a result of the elbow from Bennett and not the shot to the mask so suck it Florida fans and concussion experts) but a combination of things including but not limited to:
Roster Construction due to Salary Cap
Production or lack thereof from the core
Lack of a heavy forecheck or willingness to battle for pucks resulting in a rush chance only offense after game 2 as the article pointed out
Being outgoalied (vs being goalied by Bob and only losing due to that. Bob was good, not unbeatable)Scoring 4 goals total in the final 4 games of the series is a guaranteed series loss for pretty much any team.
Change the way this team is constructed from a salary cap perspective and stop paying too many elite, talented forwards too much of the cap or continue to fail is how I see it.
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I think that’s the point that everyone is trying to make. Rantanen JUST signed his extension for $12M, so that’s the benchmark. Everybody knew the cap was going up next year, and now there is even more uncertainty regarding the cap rising due to economic factors. So, if anything, Marner should have even less leverage as we might be back in a slow rising cap situation for the next few years.
The cap is going up. That’s not uncertain. It’s already been announced.
12 in Texas is not the same as 12 in Toronto.
There are basic calculators that do the math.
Marner can’t collect his signing bonus in Arizona or Long Island. That’s a big problem here.
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The cap is going up. That’s not uncertain. It’s already been announced.
~UGThe cap is going up next year, that much is guaranteed. But the rumored increases beyond that were not set in stone, and are almost certainly not going to be as high as originally forecasted. Personally, I don’t want to find the Leafs in a cap-strapped situation like they were during the flat cap Covid era.
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Pelley said in the press release “It was determined that a new voice was required to take the team to the next level in the years ahead.”
That suggests they are going to hire a new hockey president rather than have Tree report directly to Pelley.
My guess is Pelley already has his guy. Wonder who it is?
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The cap is going up next year, that much is guaranteed. But the rumored increases beyond that were not set in stone, and are almost certainly not going to be as high as originally forecasted. Personally, I don’t want to find the Leafs in a cap-strapped situation like they were during the flat cap Covid era.
Not going to be anywhere near that era. It’ll stay up where they expect it.
And even if it doesn’t, there will be at least a dozen teams maxed out regardless. It’ll be a league problem, not a Leafs problem.
The only way they would ever be able to protect themselves against that situation in the future is to get the players to agree on % based contracts that go up or down depending on revenue.
For example, if a player is making 10% a year on a 100 million max cap, he makes 10 million. If the cap goes up to 110 million, he makes 11 million. If it goes down to 90, he makes 9 million. It would significantly change which players get the max 8 years.
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Willy seems to be skating by with little or no examination. Maybe he needs a little bit of the Marner/Matthews treatment. He is top 3 in salary, so scrutinizing him isn’t a bad thing. Leafs need a true #2 centre to replace Tavares. Rielly should be the first out the door and replaced with a UFA. Another righty is required for the 2nd pair to play with OEL.
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OOOOHHH 9/10 years they made it to game 7 in the second round for the first time…oooooohhh and their stars players were nowhere to be found in game 7. -fake
Florida is a bonafide, proven powerhouse. Defending Champs, soon to be Finalists three years in a row. You see what they’re doing to Carolina? Absolute destruction. Carolina will be lucky if they win a game at this pace. Just another piece of evidence this team needs to keep their best players and dispatch the passengers. The Leafs 1st line were not passengers. They scored every single GWG in the series versus the Panthers. But you’ve never been keen on following evidence.
So yes, the Leafs pushing that team to Game 7 (and Game 3 OT could have swung it in our direction too) is indeed impressive and evidence of improvement, albeit incremental and long over due.
The stars of this team cant get it together, this was probably the best version of them. Time for a change.
The stars on the team are fine. It’s the trash bottom-six, old ass defensive liability Tavares and garbage Rielly that need to be changed. If the Leafs dumped Rielly, Jarnkrok and Kampf, they’d have nearly 13 million to spend on better depth players. You could bet confidently with a solid, two-way, shut down 3rd line, this Leafs team, with all their star players intact, will go further in the playoffs.
You simply cannot have $40m locked up in 3 forwards who are very similar. You cant win that way. Its been proven. Time for change.
They actually aren’t similar. Matthews is an elite two-way sniper. Marner is a an elite two-way playmaker who kills penalties. Nylander is a one-dimensional scorer. You want change? Change the garbage players like Tavares and Rielly. The guys on the ice for the most goals against because they absolutely suck defensively. They give up 6 goals trying to score 5. Doesn’t add up.
No, what you can’t do is let your leading point producer (in his prime) walk away from the team for nothing in return. That is a proven way to lose. If you insist on getting rid of one the forwards, Marner stays, Nylander goes. Luckily, that doesn’t have to happen if they play their cards right in other areas.
The cap has never been higher and will continue to rise. If you’re pissy because the Leafs have to pay them so much more, maybe they wouldn’t if they weren’t stuck paying damn near 55% in taxes. Probably soon to be 60%. The Turkeys asked for Thanksgiving, now get familiar with the menu.
Unfortunately, Management screwed this team by trading away all their 1st rounder until 2028…so they cant even do a quick one year retool and get a nice prospect.
They are now stuck with having to try to get into the playoffs….so, let marner walk, move out morgan if you can, If JT will take $5m, sign him for 3 years. Build out the bottom 6, get a winger to play the top line and another quality D.Weren’t you the guy a few poorly written sentences ago repeatedly screaming change like a deranged lunatic? But you want Tavares back? The same Tavares that had ZERO points in 6 out 7 round 2 games and NONE in Game 5, 6 and 7 vs the Panthers? The same Tavares who led the team in even strength goals against?
You’re so blinded by the mirage of a “discount 5 AAV contract” but fail to see that whatever you “save” on Tavares won’t make up for his garbage play away from the puck that lose you a series. The level of discount Tavares would have to take to make up for the disaster he is defensively would have to be in 3 million AAV or less territory because you’d have to shift him to LW and have a REAL two-way center that can actually play defense in the 5+ AAV range just to break even.
So basically, Tavares would have to become Matt Duchene in Dallas at 3 AAV. And even that isn’t all that great because Duchene is on the ice for way more 5v5 goals against than he is for. His PP production keeps him marginally valuable but still negative overall. So even in THAT scenario, it still sucks. So, bye Tavares. Go enjoy Buffalo. I hear it’s a short drive from Oakville.
MArk hunter? LOL, What a joke.
Yes, laugh at probably one of the best damn eyes for Canadian junior hockey talent. It was a mistake to let him go. If you want to build a winner in the NHL, you better understand where to find the gems in the OHL and the CHL. Rare to find somebody better at it than Mark Hunter with the great teams his family has built in London year after year after year. The Leafs need a drafting wizard now more than ever with no 1st round picks and barely any prospects left to speak for. Worst case Ontario, this team gets blown up by idiot media personalities and dumbass fans who scream for the destruction of this team and the Leafs have a guy smart enough to know how to rebuild it through the draft. Best case, he can populate this team with cheap, young, OHL talent that can help this team get over the hump without having to pay through the nose in free agency or trades.
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WHIPPER
Participant
As expected, Carolina is getting shit on again. Florida is simply on another level. Florida/Dallas final would be great to see!Ugh boring final…imo
Hope edmonton gets in. The canes look done. After game 1, I said it was only one game for the canes, but they now look like their usual conference finals self.
Also, Freddy andersen is doing freddy andersen things again….someone on here was raving about freddy and how the leafs should have kept him…I laughed then and laugh now.But ya, the canes may win a game.
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Ugh boring final…imo
Hope edmonton gets in. The canes look done. After game 1, I said it was only one game for the canes, but they now look like their usual conference finals self.
Also, Freddy andersen is doing freddy andersen things again….someone on here was raving about freddy and how the leafs should have kept him…I laughed then and laugh now.But ya, the canes may win a game.
~FakepartofmeWhen you look at his overall stats, Andersen looks good. When you look at his pressure stats, Andersen is almost a torchbearer for the Leafs’ collective failures in closing out series. Obviously the problems continued with Campbell, Samsonov and Woll – but Andersen’s numbers were a seriously stark contrast (I had looked them up, but I don’t typically save that stuff when I look; I just get it and am sometimes surprised by it) between early series and Series clinching games.
Goalies at this level can be so undone by their own headspace. Remember Potvin? Always an excellent goalie but the last couple of years he had a tendency to allow a soft goal every other game or even more frequently. He was still typically well above league average in save percentage (usually being about top-10) – until his last season here, when he posted a .906, which was bang-on league average. The Leafs signed Curtis Joseph and Potvin just fell apart – save percentages of .885, .901, .900, all below the league averages. I don’t think he was ever the same. Even in 2001-2002, his last good season, he bounced back to .907 and league average was .908.
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UG.
My gawd, what a headache.
The stars of this team arent fine and they are all similar – soft, disappear when it counts and dont hate losing enough.
The cap will rise this year but it probably doesnt go up as high as expected over the next couple of years.
As for your Thanksgiving comment, ya if you make over millions you should be taxed 53%, but there are ways around that. Also taxes are being lowered for those in the first two bracket – under $57 000 and under $114. As it should be. I’m perfectly fine with people who make millions paying more taxes.
JT can get more on the open market for sure, but having a quality 2nd line centerman who will transition to 3rd line in a year or so for $4-$5 would great. If the leafs sign a younger 2nd line center than JT could play wing or 3rd line. But if he walks he walks.
Marner isnt worth over $12.5…..heck he’s barely worth 10.9….but I say that about matthews and Willy as well. All were overpaid too early and continue to be overpaid.And sorry, while with the leafs Hunter’s track record is bad at drafting: Fedor Gordeev, Keaton Middleton, Nicolas Mattinen, Ryan O’Connell, Vladimir Bobylev, Ryan McGregor, Vladislav Kara, and Nikolai Chebykin. Lili was the best of the bunch…I guess timoshov had 45 nhl games.
So his eyes arent that great.
Mark hunter is old news, moving on. -
The concept that the Leafs stars ‘are fine’ and essentially the Leafs should just run it back as far as the stars go but moving & replacing Reilly and JT while getting a new bottom 6 will fix everything is severely flawed.
How the hell are the Leafs going to actually get a new bottom 6 that can compete with the top tiered teams bottom 6 if they just keep allocating a disproportionate amount of the cap to the star players?
Ok lets just pretend we are in GM mode in a video game (because that’s the only way this entire theory works) and lets say Reilly agrees to waive his no movement clause & the Leafs don’t bring JT back.
The combined salary for the Toronto Maple Leafs’ bottom six in the 2024-25 season is approximately $10.275 million. This includes Laughton, Lorentz, Jarnkrok, Domi, Holmberg, and McMann.
FUN FACT – The Leafs’ bottom six is paid less than any individual in the “Core Four”
Reilly is 7.5 M and JT was 11M so all that totaled give you 29M rounded up.
You now take that nd turn around and give what 3 M or more of it to Marner right off the hop so your 29M is now 26M.
With that 26M you have to get Knies locked up with a raise and if your scrapping the entire bottom 6 you have 8 contracts (Reilly, JT and bottom 6) to now replace with 26M and 2 of those are your 2nd line centre & a 2nd pairing D.
In what world can you find a 2nd line C that is better than JT was this year with 38 goals and 58% FO wins as well as find a 2nd pairing D + 6 more bottom 6 forwards who are better than what they had this year for 26M?
And the “just trade players X, Y and Z” is almost as much of a joke, what team is taking what some are labelling Toronto’s garbage from the bottom 6 or their overpaid 2nd pairing D and giving Toronto their value back as far as what their salary is? Toronto wouldn’t be trading from any position of strength in this scenario.
The only move is to eliminate one or 2 of the top tiered salaries and redistribute that money to other parts of the team aside from top 6 forwards to improve the balance. JT’s 11M off the books helps but you have to replace your 2nd line C so you gain what half that salary cap space as the average 2nd line C in the NHL has a 5M salary (do you want average or better than average?).
The move to make is obvious – who they make that move with is up to the Leafs but letting a UFA walk to get the space seems a lot easier and less messy than trading a player with a multi year deal they are in the very early stages of – at least to me.
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The move to make is obvious – who they make that move with is up to the Leafs but letting a UFA walk to get the space seems a lot easier and less messy than trading a player with a multi year deal they are in the very early stages of – at least to me.
They aren’t letting Marner walk.
He’s already left the relationship.
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They aren’t letting Marner walk.
He’s already left the relationship.- Atomic Wedgie
I never mentioned Marner specifically, I don’t want to upset any specific poster here……. 😉
That being said I agree with you in his own mind he’s already at the club, grinding on a new team and his Leaf wedding ring is sitting at home on the dresser.
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Atomic Wedgie
Participant
They aren’t letting Marner walk.He’s already left the relationship.
Which is fine, but he can do the leafs a solid and do sign and trade. Help the team recoup something and he will leave here in a better view.
Unless he signs with Boston, Montreal, Tampa, or florida.
Although that would be leafy for him to light up the leafs for years to come playing on a rival.
Ugh.
Hope he signs out west. Vegas, San Jose, Calgary.
Sign and trade him to vegas for Hertl….vegas is bound to dump him soon anyway. -
Cush29
Participant
I never mentioned Marner specifically, I don’t want to upset any specific poster here……. ????That being said I agree with you in his own mind he’s already at the club, grinding on a new team and his Leaf wedding ring is sitting at home on the dresser.
Mmmarner….
MARNER!!!
Mmmmmmmmarrrrrrrrner!!!
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I never mentioned Marner specifically, I don’t want to upset any specific poster here……. ????
That being said I agree with you in his own mind he’s already at the club, grinding on a new team and his Leaf wedding ring is sitting at home on the dresser.
~Cush29As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick.
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As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick. – Monkey Puck
IF you had a choice between either Marner or Nylander with no salary or contract info on the table and were just picking the player you thought was the ‘best’ player I can understand the thought process behind Marner over Nylander for sure – nobody sane can deny Marner is a better overall contributor to a team since he plays so well defensively. It’s about what your team has already and what your team needs I guess but I do see your point and could agree with it if the ‘other factors’ aren’t considered like salary expectations, contract, mental toughness, ability to deliver in high pressure situations etc.
It’s all but written in the stars, Marner will leave and much like Kadri win a cup somewhere else and good for him but you can’t equate that to ‘if the Leafs kept him it would mean he could have done it here’ IMO.
Same as Kadri was not the player here he has been since leaving, nor Hyman etc. Some players need to go to a new team to grow and thrive, especially those who play for their ‘hometown team’ from the minute they get into the league until they leave or sometimes just where they are drafted to and start to learn how to be a pro vs a new team (i.e. Sam Bennett who never got more than 18 goals in Calgary & was a minus player every year and is now a guaranteed 20 or 25 goal scorer and a + player year over year in Florida). Coaches, systems, pressure from location, age, maturity etc. all play such big factors into a players performance.
If (when) Marner goes I want to see Willy at least start on L1 with Matthews, IMO he deserves it and if he’s better suited to line 2 because they can find an equal or better RW for L1 then that’s fine.
Agreed 2LW has been a revolving door of failure for the most part, they need to solidify that spot once and for all and if you don’t get a hard nosed L2 Centre it needs to be a 2LW with bite, snarl or whatever you want to call it who can score and grind. A tough thing to find for sure – essentially you want another Knies.
Reilly I agree with you fully on. I’d love to move on from him but I think the Leafs are stuck with him but I’m also not sure they can change him into what we all want him to be sadly.
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IF you had a choice between either Marner or Nylander with no salary or contract info on the table and were just picking the player you thought was the ‘best’ player I can understand the thought process behind Marner over Nylander for sure – nobody sane can deny Marner is a better overall contributor to a team since he plays so well defensively. It’s about what your team has already and what your team needs I guess but I do see your point and could agree with it if the ‘other factors’ aren’t considered like salary expectations, contract, mental toughness, ability to deliver in high pressure situations etc.
It’s all but written in the stars, Marner will leave and much like Kadri win a cup somewhere else and good for him but you can’t equate that to ‘if the Leafs kept him it would mean he could have done it here’ IMO.
Same as Kadri was not the player here he has been since leaving, nor Hyman etc. Some players need to go to a new team to grow and thrive, especially those who play for their ‘hometown team’ from the minute they get into the league until they leave or sometimes just where they are drafted to and start to learn how to be a pro vs a new team (i.e. Sam Bennett who never got more than 18 goals in Calgary & was a minus player every year and is now a guaranteed 20 or 25 goal scorer and a + player year over year in Florida). Coaches, systems, pressure from location, age, maturity etc. all play such big factors into a players performance.
If (when) Marner goes I want to see Willy at least start on L1 with Matthews, IMO he deserves it and if he’s better suited to line 2 because they can find an equal or better RW for L1 then that’s fine.
Agreed 2LW has been a revolving door of failure for the most part, they need to solidify that spot once and for all and if you don’t get a hard nosed L2 Centre it needs to be a 2LW with bite, snarl or whatever you want to call it who can score and grind. A tough thing to find for sure – essentially you want another Knies.
Reilly I agree with you fully on. I’d love to move on from him but I think the Leafs are stuck with him but I’m also not sure they can change him into what we all want him to be sadly.
~Cush29Willy deserves it, certainly – but it does beg the question – were Matthews healthy, would having a 50 goal scorer on line 1 and a 40 goal scorer on line 2 not be a pretty sweet problem to have?
I think it comes down to who they get and who does what. I don’t think this happens by any stretch (because (1) I think those players could be resigned yet, and (2) I think their combined salary would exceed the $14m we can’t spend already) but if you had a Bennett and an Ehlers, you would benefit by having Knies-Matthews-Ehlers and Tavares-Bennett-Nylander from line chemistry in that you’re getting physicality, speed, distribution and shooting spread out. If you swapped out Ehlers for Boeser in that make believe equation, you’d probably swap Nylander and Boeser because Nylander is still a better distributor and Boeser is more of a strict shooter.
Now realistically none of that happens and you’re really looking at guys in the range of Marchand, Gourde, Smith, Mantha or Tanev to try and round out the bottom-6 with a resigned Lorentz and Laughton and bumping Domi up into a top-6 role. If you could mash that in with a Bennett signing, you might not miss Marner _that_ much. Easton Cowan could be ready to move up, but I think he probably should get a spin in the AHL first; he has the feel of a guy who needs to be top-9 to be successful. I guess it would depend on who we have and where as to what opportunities present themselves.
I do expect the Leafs to land Brandon Tanev and they have often been discussed with Gourde, so we’ll see what happens!
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As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick. MonkeyPunk
I completely agree with 16>88 but if Marner is leaving it has absolutely nothing to do with $$. Assuming the Leafs have/will have 105-110M on the table some other team is going to have to put 14+ on the table for him if it was about $$. If he’s leaving it’s about lifestyle. And I agree about Domi. My one complaint with Berube was his unwillingness to juggle lines to create better matchups. Maurice talked about how he juggled Verhaeghe on and off of Barkov’s line depending on Barkov’s matchup. Basically if Barkov was going to be used primarily to erase Matthews then he moved Verhaeghe to the Bennett line to make their lines 2 and 3 the offensive lines. We should have been doing that with MM or Knies to help create more offense from line 3. Switch Holmberg and Knies to create a Knies-Domi-McMann line ….at least try it. Or Knies with JT/88. Berube, overall, I love his plan but he lost the matchup battle to Maurice and most coaches will bc that team is so deep but still …for me, he had to try a little harder.
On Rielly …I’d move him if at all possible b/c he’s not going to age well. He’s weak on rushes and like you say very soft on zone coverage/battles. Great vision and passing but that weak shot makes him predictable. Honestly I think his turns have really suffered ..looks so stiff …maybe a chronic hip injury or something ..either way if you can move him you do. But, I don’t believe he’ll sign off on any move.
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There was a rumor that was on the other board that i had not heard that Berube wanted to spread Mathews/Marner and Nylander across the three lines and the players were not in favor.
Two other unsubstantiated rumors I heard this week(From a guy that knows a bunch of allums)
1) The team is not actually that close off the ice as they make it seem
2) Reilly has a cocaine problemCan’t say they are true or not.. But it is rumor season.
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LMFAO, MLSE came up with the Fan Access Program, (FAP). You can’t beat it.
You can’t make this shit up.
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LMFAO, MLSE came up with the Fan Access Program, (FAP). You can’t beat it.
You can’t make this shit up. – Whipper
It’s funny and linked to the app and lets you enter draws for stuff and get discounts etc. I signed up early enough and actually got a nice free Leafs T-shirt (that won’t see the light of day until after the Cup is awarded now and perhaps not even until the fall). lol
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Now that Shanny is gone, next up Marner?
This isn’t about who anyone wants to go / stay between 88 or 16, it’s about what can happen, what is realistic and ‘doable’.
Shanny was likely the one who who would have been all in on re-signing Marner and I think others in the organization aren’t willing to, and Berube is kinda’in that group.
I don’t think Berube will say it’s about a specific high end but soft player (as we know the Leafs have a few) but he will say we need more of things they don’t have and the only way to get those things is to change the people / cap distribution.
If they were going to move on from Nylander wouldn’t they have done so before they signed him to an 8 year deal? I guess they could try to move Willy but why would he agree to waive his full no trade deal? That makes zero sense – he knows if he stays Marner is likely gone and he will get bumped up to L1 to play with Matthews and get more ice time and more points.
We can (should) be mad at the players for their performances or lack thereof but the reality is there is blame for the current situation on a few folks but the bulk of it is the absolute stubborn and arrogant moron they just fired in Shanny.
Shanny who brought in an experienced GM and coach and then decided to go the complete opposite direction with Dubas and Keefe. Seriously an inexperienced coach or GM is ok if the other one is experienced but both being green to the NHL was a mistake.
The fact they didn’t give Marner the 8 or 8.5 x 8 his camp apparently wanted in 2019 and decided to wait out the season which cost them 3 to 3.5M per year, 2 less years AND resulted in them giving Marner a NTC for the last 2 fucking years of his deal (which in itself was insane when usually it’s the last year).
Then Shanny shit cans Dubas, brings in Tre and ties his hands by telling him he can’t move Marner.
Imagine the haul the Leafs would have got by trading Marner before the NTC kicked in?
Now all they can likely do is re-sign him and continue to have a horrifically unbalanced roster that won’t become a top 4 team or let him walk for nothing.
Fuck you Shanny, you fucked this team and it’s fan base over with your arrogance and belief you knew better than everyone else.
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I am not sure Willy is a fit on Line 1.. Both he and Mathews are technically shooters..
~AzureOthers have mentioned it, but if Marner dips and we don’t get someone to replace him on line 1, I’m happy bumping Domi up there. He’s had chemistry with Matthews and can grind with Knies to keep teams hemmed in their own end. Domi is a defensive liability, so having him with two above average defenders is a way to insulate him.
As for WN and AM both being shooters, did you see some of the sick passes Willy had this year?!? He had a boatload of assists in the playoffs all while still scoring at pretty much his normal pace. He’d fit fine on Matty’s wing if that’s what Chief decided.
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I think Gourde resigns in Tampa. The local Tampa media seems convinced of it.
I don’t think Bennett goes to Toronto. And, honestly, the guy is a POS. I’m not sure I’d want him.
Marchand is too old and is a cheapshot-artist coward. I wouldn’t want him at league minimum.
I’d try putting Domi back with Matthews.
Keep Patches if he doesn’t retire.
Rielly isn’t going anywhere, but Marner is.
I bet Tavares stays, but wouldn’t be totally shocked if he tested free agency first.
That’s all I got for now.
PS – has anyone checked the annual Leafs prediction thread back on HB for accuracy? I feel like we need to move that tradition over here.
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I think Gourde resigns in Tampa. The local Tampa media seems convinced of it.
I don’t think Bennett goes to Toronto. And, honestly, the guy is a POS. I’m not sure I’d want him.
Marchand is too old and is a cheapshot-artist coward. I wouldn’t want him at league minimum.
I’d try putting Domi back with Matthews.
Keep Patches if he doesn’t retire.
Rielly isn’t going anywhere, but Marner is.
I bet Tavares stays, but wouldn’t be totally shocked if he tested free agency first.
That’s all I got for now.
PS – has anyone checked the annual Leafs prediction thread back on HB for accuracy? I feel like we need to move that tradition over here.
~PDO SpeedwagonDon’t take anything I was saying or anything I’m about to say here as advocation – more as suggestions on players.
I think if Bennett is available, the Leafs would be interested and I have no idea about how he’d feel about playing near home.
Gourde – I’d imagine if they want him to stay, he stays. I was more commenting on how he was often heard in rumours with the Leafs and where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire . .
With regards to Marchand – look, Corey Perry is an asset and Marchand is far better and younger. I’d take him in a heartbeat whether he’s a total douchebag on the ice or not. Marchand did grow up a Leaf fan, but I suspect that ship has long since sailed, so I doubt there’s any nostalgic reason for him to want to play here, but the Leafs are still a top-tier team in the league.
I don’t know. I loved the timeliness of Patches’ goals, but I’m not sure if it was mostly luck or not.
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The stars of this team arent fine and they are all similar – soft, disappear when it counts and dont hate losing enough. -fake
Errrrr. Wrong again.
Soft, is Nylander. 7 hits total in the playoffs. Marner and Matthews had 31 and 33. And Matthews was doing it injured. Marner blocks shots on the PK. Marner and Matthews each had a GWG. They did not disappear. The Leafs 1st line had 3 GWG vs the Panthers. And I’ll repeat it as many times as I have to before people wake the fuck up and realize the problem was not the Leafs 1st line.
I could see the argument that Matthews doesn’t care enough to win a Cup being a kid from Arizona but Marner definitely cares too much and hates losing. He internalizes the failures to a fault. But that’s no reason to let the guy walk as a free agent. That’d just be retarded.
The cap will rise this year but it probably doesnt go up as high as expected over the next couple of years.
Wrong. It will rise and continue to rise.
As for your Thanksgiving comment, ya if you make over millions you should be taxed 53%, but there are ways around that. Also taxes are being lowered for those in the first two bracket – under $57 000 and under $114. As it should be. I’m perfectly fine with people who make millions paying more taxes.
Wrong again communist.
JT can get more on the open market for sure, but having a quality 2nd line centerman who will transition to 3rd line in a year or so for $4-$5 would great. If the leafs sign a younger 2nd line center than JT could play wing or 3rd line. But if he walks he walks.
Tavares absolutely sucks balls as a 2nd line center. He has always sucked defensively and as he ages, he will score less and defend even worse. You’d have to be on crack to think he could be a 3rd line center on a Cup winning team.
Marner isnt worth over $12.5…..heck he’s barely worth 10.9….but I say that about matthews and Willy as well. All were overpaid too early and continue to be overpaid.
Marner is worth every penny at 10.9 and 12.5 and even 13. Yes, they are overpaid and it’s because they live in a tax hell hole. They’re “overpaid” because their agents negotiate based on what money they take home, not based on their salary cap hit.
And sorry, while with the leafs Hunter’s track record is bad at drafting: Fedor Gordeev, Keaton Middleton, Nicolas Mattinen, Ryan O’Connell, Vladimir Bobylev, Ryan McGregor, Vladislav Kara, and Nikolai Chebykin. Lili was the best of the bunch…I guess timoshov had 45 nhl games.
So his eyes arent that great.
Mark hunter is old news, moving on.Was Mark Hunter in charge of the entire draft without question? No, he wasn’t. There were always conflicting voices in the room that muddies the waters to whom he actually picked and whom dumbass Dubas wanted. Or Shanahan. Or Lou. His work with the London Knights speaks for itself. He always builds a competitive team. London Knights players usually compete for and win Cups when they make the NHL for a reason.
Even if the Leafs refused to go back to Mark Hunter, why not Mike Futa, the guy who drafted the Cup winning Kings? Or any other drafting wizard? It was 12 years ago the Dallas stars hired Jim Nill (a year before the Leafs stupidly hired Shanahan). Most people would have never known who he was. Look at the Dallas Stars today. He built the Red Wings through the draft and he did the same with the Stars. The Leafs need a drafting guru. They haven’t had one in decades. Maybe ever.
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As much as I struggle with it on either end of the logical scale in that, largely for their versatility, I would rather have Marner than Nylander – and they are compared here because of the salary issues – but the fact is that Marner checked out before that series was over and game 7’s response from the hometown put a lid on it. Adjustments are so hard to make mid-series with players, but you can’t help but wonder if Domi swapping with Marner would’ve helped in any capacity. I think no matter who was up there Matthews not finishing on his chances severely limited the top line. -monkeypunk
Marner is better than Nylander, even with the price difference. But if the Leafs dump the right players, they don’t have to pick one or the other.
Tavares must go away. Rielly must go away. Kampf must go away. Jarnkrok must go away.
Let’s face it the 2LW was an achillies heel for this team. Holmberg was -6 at 5v5 in that series. That’s double the next closest (Tavares, Laughton, Lorentz and Carlo were all -3) and it’s been one because they don’t have the money to put it there. They need a 2C and then to move JT to the wing. They also will need a top-6 RW; I do think that because he’s a shooter, they could keep Nylander and Matthews apart and find a different RW.
Agreed on Holmberg, he can’t score to save his life. But Tavares and Nylander can’t defend to save their lives either. And Tavares’ defense was the true Achilles heel, being on the ice for the most EVGA than any Leafs forward. I’m willing to tolerate Nylander because I know we can get him a LW and a C who can cover up his obvious flaws. But there’s no way I’m going to tolerate Tavares for a second longer after how many chances he got to make it work. Holmberg, if he wants, can be a rotational 4th liner. But he’ll never be useful to the Leafs in any meaningful role.
Suppose for a moment, Kampf’s salary goes to Marner’s increase. He didn’t play meaningful hockey anyway so the Leaf don’t lose anything of value but retain a 100 point player, 4th all-time in Leafs playoff points.
Next, suppose Knies gets a bridge contract. Let’s say 3 years, 6.5 million AAV with max signing bonuses. In 3 years, Domi’s contract ends and you can give Knies the increase from Domi coming off the books which would bring the Knies budget up to 10-11 AAV. It also gives the Leafs more time to see if Knies is actually worth a big, long term commitment.
Short term, the Leafs save on cap space by not buying UFA years. He hits UFA status faster, which agents want now more than ever. The Leafs can worry about his next contract later and focus on going for it now they still have Matthews in his prime. The savings from not giving him a long term deal allows the Leafs to sign another depth forward like Brandon Tanev, just as an example.
Third, Rielly’s money plus Jarnkrok’s money totals roughly 10 million. The cap increase is another 7 million. I wager you could go into your advanced stats and find three players, a LW, a C and a RW who could become the Leafs new 3rd shutdown line and play positive possession hockey, kill penalties, shut down players and even chip in some offense for 12 million or less. You could try to move Rielly to Vancouver or Seattle. I’d say Utah might be a stretch but you could try to bring in McBain to fill at least one hole in return for Rielly and replace Rielly with a cheaper UFA.
The X-Factor that the Panthers had that the Leafs did not. The Panthers 3rd line won them the series. And it was a close series but they were clearly the difference makers. That’s what the Leafs are truly missing. But luckily, they can afford to fix it if they make the correct sacrifices in other areas without losing their best players.
The left over 5 million can go one of two ways; either get a top-six LW (Reilly Smith?) or replace Rielly with an offensive D-man, preferably RHD (Dante Fabbro?). Or attempt to acquire Jenner on his expiring contract to replace Tavares as a younger, better two-way option.
I would also move on from McMann and use his “value” of 20 goals (but 0 playoff goals) at 1.5 AAV to bring in a wrecking ball like Martin Pospisil. Jack McBain is another excellent candidate to try to bring in as mentioned earlier. Or Mathieu Olivier. Eeli Tolvanen. Kiefer Sherwood. Garnet Hathaway. Any one of these guys would be so much more useful to the Leafs than McMann was in the playoffs. The way I look at it, I’d rather have the forward with 0 playoff goals (even though most of the guys I listed could probably score as much as McMann too) who throws 300 hits a season than McMann who seemed to be invisible most nights when the team could have benefitted from a spark.
Rielly may suck defensively, but he was only -1 and was on for more goals for than any other player on the team. I want him gone more than I want to keep him, but he’s not absent when the playoffs arrive. He’s just not physical. He’s never changing, but god I wish he could just put his body in front of the other team’s players rather than only his stick.
The Leafs scored goals in spite of Rielly, not because of him. His goals were mostly flukes. He has been so horrid in offensive situations, he’s been removed from the PP1 and replaced by a forward. His defensive errors, were as numerous and as obvious as they ever have been. He played the most ice time, he gets paid the most money, he can’t be that bad and expect success. He is a passenger at this point. He can still provide value to a team like Vancouver or Seattle, trying to salvage a wild card spot, but he’s not winning anybody a Cup making 7.5 AAV. Not going to happen.
Don’t take anything I was saying or anything I’m about to say here as advocation – more as suggestions on players.
I think if Bennett is available, the Leafs would be interested and I have no idea about how he’d feel about playing near home.
Gourde – I’d imagine if they want him to stay, he stays. I was more commenting on how he was often heard in rumours with the Leafs and where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire . .
With regards to Marchand – look, Corey Perry is an asset and Marchand is far better and younger. I’d take him in a heartbeat whether he’s a total douchebag on the ice or not. Marchand did grow up a Leaf fan, but I suspect that ship has long since sailed, so I doubt there’s any nostalgic reason for him to want to play here, but the Leafs are still a top-tier team in the league.
I don’t know. I loved the timeliness of Patches’ goals, but I’m not sure if it was mostly luck or not.
I’d say there is no chance Bennett or Marchand are flipping over to the Leafs after having just beat them and on the road to the Cup Final. Win or lose, why would they leave warm weather, zero pressure, a formula that obviously works and way more money in their pocket?
The Leafs had their chance with Corey Perry long ago. The Leafs enjoyed watching him kill the Leafs for the Habs, Lightning and now Oilers. I’d love to add Perry, but again, his team went to the Final and appear capable of doing it again. He’s playing with McDavid sometimes. Why would he give that up? To play in this circus? I doubt it.
I’d take Pacioretty back at 900K but some think he’s going to retire.
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Was Mark Hunter in charge of the entire draft without question? No, he wasn’t. There were always conflicting voices in the room that muddies the waters to whom he actually picked and whom dumbass Dubas wanted. Or Shanahan. Or Lou. His work with the London Knights speaks for itself. He always builds a competitive team. London Knights players usually compete for and win Cups when they make the NHL for a reason.
After watching Easton Cowan and the Hunter Brothers London Knights, they deserve an NHL look. That OHL franchise has been one of the best run franchises for over a decade. If they really want to make a difference, bring the Brothers in and put them into upper management. A winning pedigree is just that. The Leafs need more winners, not has-beens. To beat the Panthers, you have to be as tough as the Panthers. It looks like they’re going to roll into the finals and probably win it again.
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The Leafs scored goals in spite of Rielly, not because of him. His goals were mostly flukes. He has been so horrid in offensive situations, he’s been removed from the PP1 and replaced by a forward. His defensive errors, were as numerous and as obvious as they ever have been. He played the most ice time, he gets paid the most money, he can’t be that bad and expect success. He is a passenger at this point. He can still provide value to a team like Vancouver or Seattle, trying to salvage a wild card spot, but he’s not winning anybody a Cup making 7.5 AAV. Not going to happen.
Of all of the Leafs contracts, this one needs to be moved. Even for a 3rd rounder, if possible. Ekblad would be the player that I’d target for that money in the off season.
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The Panthers are just dummying the Canes again tonight. If only Willy and Knies could have scored in overtime, in game 3 against the Panhandlers, then we could have been dummying the Canes. Now there’s a team that needs a retool. I guess losing in 7 against this team doesn’t look as bad, after seeing the Canes and Bolts getting destroyed by the Panthers.
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After watching Easton Cowan and the Hunter Brothers London Knights, they deserve an NHL look. That OHL franchise has been one of the best run franchises for over a decade. If they really want to make a difference, bring the Brothers in and put them into upper management. A winning pedigree is just that. The Leafs need more winners, not has-beens. To beat the Panthers, you have to be as tough as the Panthers. It looks like they’re going to roll into the finals and probably win it again.
The USNDP is catching up to the OHL but the OHL is still the gold standard for winning, successful NHL players. Looking at this Leafs roster, they would severely benefit from having battle tested draft picks on ELC. It doesn’t have to be the Hunters, but the Leafs need a head of scouting that brings in gems in every round that knows the OHL like the back of their hand.
Of all of the Leafs contracts, this one needs to be moved. Even for a 3rd rounder, if possible. Ekblad would be the player that I’d target for that money in the off season.
I would still say that Rielly has value left in him, albeit not peak value. Vancouver, he would waive for and they’re going to have a Hughes problem pretty soon. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell he stays on that team. They’ll need, at worst, an offensive LHD to replace him eventually.
Same goes for Seattle and to a lesser extent, Utah. I think there’s some wiggle room to have Rielly waive his NMC. Worse players have been traded before. Players usually accept to waive if they are given ample time to consider their new team.
I’d be happy to receive a depth D and/or a bottom-six player for Rielly and use the added cap space to sign a steady depth replacement.
The Panthers are just dummying the Canes again tonight. If only Willy and Knies could have scored in overtime, in game 3 against the Panhandlers, then we could have been dummying the Canes. Now there’s a team that needs a retool. I guess losing in 7 against this team doesn’t look as bad, after seeing the Canes and Bolts getting destroyed by the Panthers.
The idiots blaming Andersen are getting a rude awakening right now because obviously the goaltending change didn’t make a difference. Unfortunately, the Panthers are just the best team in the East. The Leafs seem to be 2nd best. It’s been a long time since the Leafs could say that. It’s just more evidence piling up by the day that the Leafs should move forward by keeping their best pieces, purging the passengers and adding some new muscle to the mix.
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Looking at the list of UFAs this year, there are some intriguing options for PTOs and Marlies.
Maxime Comtois, 6’3″, 222, spent last season in the KHL and scored 21 goals and 50 points. Also scored 7 goals and 13 points in the KHL playoffs. Big body, LW with NHL experience could probably get him back in the NHL with at least a PTO. This guy would be an upgrade for the Leafs bottom-six for sure.
Jaden Lipinski is a 20 years old center, 6’4″, 210 from Scottsdale, Arizona. That’s an interesting one considering he might already know Matthews and Knies. He scored 58 points in the WHL last season. Could potentially come in for the Marlies to start but gives the Leafs a free prospect.
Perhaps Justin Kipkie, at 19 years old, LHD, 6’3, 208 and is worth a look. Utah hasn’t signed him. 62 points, 13 playoff points in the WHL.
Seth Griffith, a familiar name, had 68 points in the AHL. Solid Marlies addition who could compete for a spot at camp. He’s basically the same size as Holmberg and Robertson. Might be worth a look for a PTO.
Also from the AHL, Matthew Peca scored 30 goals and 63 points. Not as small as Griffith but another solid Marlies addition and PTO candidate.
John Leonard, 26, LW/RW, 35 goals and 60 points in the AHL. Only 5’11”, 190 but could be worth a look for the Marlies / PTO.
Alexander Barabanov, another familiar name, spent some years in the NHL as a depth player. He’s a UFA again after scoring 25 goals and 58 points in the KHL. Another late bloomer that might want another crack at the NHL. Again, seems like an improvement over Robertson and Holmberg, at the very least.
Nolan Stevens, 28 years old, 6’3, 190 from Brantford, scored 22 goals and 52 points in the SHL.
Most of these players have obvious flaws but the risk is so low for the Leafs, they could literally sign them all to be Marlies at whatever they want. I’d hand out PTOs to 12 guys and even if ONE of them turns into a productive 4th liner or free prospect, I’d consider it a win.
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I would like to agree with most of what you say, but the same problem exists. Two right wingers who will command too much cap space. Sure, sign Marner, but you’d need to be moving on from Willie, since he’s got another 7 years on his contract. Marner can’t get more than $12.5m per season or it just won’t work. Knies must be the priority, since he’s younger and a playoff player. Trading Stolarz might be an idea, since his stock has risen. The Oilers might be willing to make a trade to upgrade their goaltending. Make them pay, for sure.
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I would like to agree with most of what you say, but the same problem exists.
Get rid of Kampf, that’s Marner’s salary increase. And the rest of the team could be exactly the same. Replace Jarnkrok with another (or two) 4th liners for the same salary.
The “problem” is the money wasted and the goals scored against with Tavares and Rielly.
Remember, Tavares scored 2 goals in the entire series against Florida. They were both in the same game and they lost the game. The other 6 games, he was useless offensively and defensively a liability.
The same applies to Rielly in Games 4, 5, 6 and 7. There is nothing he does offensively that OEL can’t do. And there is nothing defensively that a guy like Dumoulin can’t do for half the price as a replacement. If you can move Rielly for even a 3rd line player who makes 2-3 AAV plus you sign Dumoulin for 3 AAV, you would still have left over cap space to sign a guy like Brandon Tanev.
Two right wingers who will command too much cap space. Sure, sign Marner, but you’d need to be moving on from Willie, since he’s got another 7 years on his contract.
Now ask yourself, if the Leafs team was exactly the same but instead of Tavares and Rielly, they had a two-way 2C, a two-way 3C, 2nd pair LHD and a 4th line crash and banger, all for the same salary, would they not beat Florida in 7 games? I’d say they do. But even if they couldn’t, you add more players with the 7 million dollar cap increase (maybe a playoff LW like Reilly Smith + another shutdown 3rd liner) and you definitely can beat Florida in 7. Why? Because Florida will have to spend all their cap space to keep their team exactly the same as it is now without adding anybody new. And Bob will be 37 next year. Three long playoff runs in a row catch up to you eventually.
Marner can’t get more than $12.5m per season or it just won’t work.
It works just fine. Not ideal, but still manageable. The money required to fill the gaps doesn’t have to come at the cost of Marner.
Knies must be the priority, since he’s younger and a playoff player.
Knies had 7 points (5G/2A) in 13 games. Remember that. Where was Knies in Game 5, 6 and 7? Where was he when he had breakaways in OT? Sorry, but you’re overrating Knies. He’s not a superstar yet. Without Marner and Matthews, he’s not carrying a line or a team by himself and would still be behind Marner, Matthews and Nylander in terms of value and importance. It’s important the Leafs keep Knies to a 3 year, 6.5 AAV contract. When Domi comes off the books, they can give Knies an increase to 10 AAV, if he earns it. Both sides win.
Trading Stolarz might be an idea, since his stock has risen. The Oilers might be willing to make a trade to upgrade their goaltending. Make them pay, for sure.
Very low odds the Leafs do that considering Woll is still an injury risk and the Oilers don’t have much to give the Leafs that they don’t need themselves.
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Even if they do as you say, their toughness quotient is not up to the task. Watching Florida manhandle and destroy Carolina, a Euroteam, after the score was out of hand is a major red flag. Leafs need some high end grit to take care of the nonsense that Florida seems to get away with. It’s better to initiate, than take it from that goon squad. It’s quite effective. Florida is winning again this year.
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The last several Cup winners were heavy teams or teams that played a heavy game. Lost in all the talk of Ducherov and elite skill, the Lightning had Maroon, Goodrow, and Schenn to talk trash and start lawnmowers. They also had several guys like Palat and Gourde who were not “tough guys”, but possessed a good mix of skill and grit.
Look at every recent Cup winner and you’ll find a similar mixture of skill and sandpaper.
The Leafs have some big bodies, but many of them are shrinking violets. Somebody like Gourde has more piss in his pinky finger than Marner, Matthews, and Nylander have in their entire bodies.
Using the Lightning again as an example : Stamkos had elite skill but would also punch you in the face. Ducherov is dirty as fuck. Even the Lightning’s Lady Byng candidate (Point) started a lawnmower this year.
I can guarantee if Bennett had concussed Vasilevskiy, there would have been a line brawl and Bennett would have been targeted for the rest of the series.
I’m not saying toughness is the primary reason for the Leafs’ lack of playoff success, but it’s certainly a factor.
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Even if they do as you say, their toughness quotient is not up to the task. Watching Florida manhandle and destroy Carolina, a Euroteam, after the score was out of hand is a major red flag. Leafs need some high end grit to take care of the nonsense that Florida seems to get away with. It’s better to initiate, than take it from that goon squad. It’s quite effective. Florida is winning again this year.
The issue vs. Florida was the bottom-six had 0 goals for and our 2nd line was on the ice for a lot of goals against.
And they still made it to Game 7. Almost was up 3-0 in the series after OT in Game 3. Never mind the “6-1 on home ice” BS. We still beat Florida 3 times. Adding enough to this team to win one more game is a matter of inches, not miles.
Another contributing factor to the reason the Leafs lost; their lack of snap shots and snap shot goals. For comparison: Edmonton leads with 22. Next is Carolina with 17, same as Florida with 17. Then Dallas with 15. The Leafs? 4. I’m sure there’s some kind of technical advanced stat reason for it, but the Leafs were among the worst of all the playoff teams in snap shot goals. In fact, they only attempted 36 total snap shots. That’s the ENTIRE TEAM. 36. Dallas has 162. Edmonton 155. Carolina 116. Florida 87. Clearly, there is something the Leafs are missing in that area that successful teams are clearly feasting on.
But, what you are suggesting, would still happen under what I was suggesting. It’s not one or the other. It can be both. I would advocate adding the likes of B. Tanev, Pospisil, McBain; these are all guys with 200-300 hits. Each. Heart and soul, tough character players.
The Leafs can still be plenty tough without losing their best players.
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I’m not saying toughness is the primary reason for the Leafs’ lack of playoff success, but it’s certainly a factor.
i’m saying this as i have been for decades but you creampuffs keep trying to figure out how to re-sign pencil neck, big hat, greedy lil’ bitch????♂️
what a fucking joke????????♂️
edit:nice alliteration ????
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The last several Cup winners were heavy teams or teams that played a heavy game. Lost in all the talk of Ducherov and elite skill, the Lightning had Maroon, Goodrow, and Schenn to talk trash and start lawnmowers. They also had several guys like Palat and Gourde who were not “tough guys”, but possessed a good mix of skill and grit.
Look at every recent Cup winner and you’ll find a similar mixture of skill and sandpaper.
The Leafs have some big bodies, but many of them are shrinking violets. Somebody like Gourde has more piss in his pinky finger than Marner, Matthews, and Nylander have in their entire bodies.
Using the Lightning again as an example : Stamkos had elite skill but would also punch you in the face. Ducherov is dirty as fuck. Even the Lightning’s Lady Byng candidate (Point) started a lawnmower this year.
I can guarantee if Bennett had concussed Vasilevskiy, there would have been a line brawl and Bennett would have been targeted for the rest of the series.
I’m not saying toughness is the primary reason for the Leafs’ lack of playoff success, but it’s certainly a factor.
~PDO SpeedwagonOttawa plays a relatively heavy game, but they aren’t on you all the time like Florida is. Florida does a great job of taking away time and space and the results do speak for themselves:
Senators (Toronto outscored Ottawa 12-8 at 5v5; 6-3 on the PP, allowed 2 SHG, and the leafs had 1 ENG to Ottawa’s 2).
In the series, Toronto had a 35.3% PP and an 80% PK
Knies-Matthews-Marner in 73 minutes of 5v5 were 4-1 with an xG of 2.9 – 2.1
Jarnkrok-Laughton-Lorentz in 54 minutes of 5v5 were 1 – 1 with an xG of 1.3 – 1.2
Nylander-Tavares-Holmberg in 39 minutes of 5v5 were 2 – 0 with an xG of 1 – 0.9
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander in 11 minutes of 5v5 were 1-0 with an xG of 0.5 – 0.5
Pacioretty-Domi-McMann in 21 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 2 with an xG of 0.4 – 1.7
Robertson-Domi-McMann in 11 minutes of 5v5 were 1 – 1 with an xG of 0.2 – 0.2Panthers (Florida outscored Toronto 20-15 at 5v5; 4-2 on the PP, and had 2 EN goals)
In the series, Toronto had a 10% PP and an 82.6% PK
Knies-Matthews-Marner in 72 minutes of 5v5 were 6 – 5 with an xG of 2.5 – 2.1
Jarnkrok-Laughton-Lorentz in 45 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 2 with an xG of 1.2 – 1.9
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander in 42 minutes of 5v5 were 5 – 2 with an xG of 1.5 – 2
Nylander-Tavares-Holmberg in 26 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 3 with an xG of 1.3 – 1.6
McMann-Domi-Holmberg in 20 minutes of 5v5 were 0-1 with an xG of 0.4 – 0.5Florida’s pressure limited Toronto’s power play, which is all too often methodical with the puck rather than urgent. They don’t give you time to setup and find your lane. You have to make it and you have to plan it and you have to know in advance what you’re doing – or make it happen by just jamming the net and getting off shots from the point. The adjustments against Florida – having Marner at the top of the umbrella against them probably wasn’t to their advantage because he’s not quick with the puck and Florida’s pressure isn’t something he reacts well to. Also he doesn’t have a big shot. You want a shot you can get through to the net and maybe have traffic screen, deflect, tip or rebound it’s way in. Their PK is designed to stop cross-crease passes and block shots – but you can’t block them all.
It’s not just the toughness, it’s the pace. The toughness adds to it – I think the reason Holmberg was so bloody awful in the series was the physicality laid against him. He didn’t withstand that pressure and no matter where he was, he was a weak link. I also didn’t think Jarnkrok or Laughton handled the pace and pressure very well. Laughton is fine with physicality, but he’s not the quickest with the puck.
Ultimately, replacing Marner with a Bennett doesn’t really solve for that – it probably makes you even slower with the puck, but more physical. They need to upgrade the bottom-6 and find a way to improve their puck speed in the top-6.
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Ottawa plays a relatively heavy game, but they aren’t on you all the time like Florida is. Florida does a great job of taking away time and space and the results do speak for themselves:
Senators (Toronto outscored Ottawa 12-8 at 5v5; 6-3 on the PP, allowed 2 SHG, and the leafs had 1 ENG to Ottawa’s 2).
In the series, Toronto had a 35.3% PP and an 80% PK
Knies-Matthews-Marner in 73 minutes of 5v5 were 4-1 with an xG of 2.9 – 2.1
Jarnkrok-Laughton-Lorentz in 54 minutes of 5v5 were 1 – 1 with an xG of 1.3 – 1.2
Nylander-Tavares-Holmberg in 39 minutes of 5v5 were 2 – 0 with an xG of 1 – 0.9
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander in 11 minutes of 5v5 were 1-0 with an xG of 0.5 – 0.5
Pacioretty-Domi-McMann in 21 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 2 with an xG of 0.4 – 1.7
Robertson-Domi-McMann in 11 minutes of 5v5 were 1 – 1 with an xG of 0.2 – 0.2Panthers (Florida outscored Toronto 20-15 at 5v5; 4-2 on the PP, and had 2 EN goals)
In the series, Toronto had a 10% PP and an 82.6% PK
Knies-Matthews-Marner in 72 minutes of 5v5 were 6 – 5 with an xG of 2.5 – 2.1
Jarnkrok-Laughton-Lorentz in 45 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 2 with an xG of 1.2 – 1.9
Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander in 42 minutes of 5v5 were 5 – 2 with an xG of 1.5 – 2
Nylander-Tavares-Holmberg in 26 minutes of 5v5 were 0 – 3 with an xG of 1.3 – 1.6
McMann-Domi-Holmberg in 20 minutes of 5v5 were 0-1 with an xG of 0.4 – 0.5Florida’s pressure limited Toronto’s power play, which is all too often methodical with the puck rather than urgent. They don’t give you time to setup and find your lane. You have to make it and you have to plan it and you have to know in advance what you’re doing – or make it happen by just jamming the net and getting off shots from the point. The adjustments against Florida – having Marner at the top of the umbrella against them probably wasn’t to their advantage because he’s not quick with the puck and Florida’s pressure isn’t something he reacts well to. Also he doesn’t have a big shot. You want a shot you can get through to the net and maybe have traffic screen, deflect, tip or rebound it’s way in. Their PK is designed to stop cross-crease passes and block shots – but you can’t block them all.
It’s not just the toughness, it’s the pace. The toughness adds to it – I think the reason Holmberg was so bloody awful in the series was the physicality laid against him. He didn’t withstand that pressure and no matter where he was, he was a weak link. I also didn’t think Jarnkrok or Laughton handled the pace and pressure very well. Laughton is fine with physicality, but he’s not the quickest with the puck.
Ultimately, replacing Marner with a Bennett doesn’t really solve for that – it probably makes you even slower with the puck, but more physical. They need to upgrade the bottom-6 and find a way to improve their puck speed in the top-6. – MonkeyPunk
Agree with all of that.
Many raging fans are overlooking or discounting just how FUCKING GOOD Florida is, especially on the forecheck.
Being tough and being able to take/give hits is one thing. Standing up for teammates is another. But, there also needs to be skill and the ability to read plays (hockey IQ).
I keep going to the Lightning for comparisons because I’ve watched a couple thousand of their games, they’re in our division and they have had recent success.
Like Toronto, Tampa has tons of elite skill. They are well coached. They have chemistry and an top-tier passing game. Unlike the Leafs, they have more grit and a pedigree of recent playoff success…. and yet, Florida has manhandled them two seasons in a row. Even with Vasi playing at near-Vezina levels didn’t matter.
The first two games the Leafs won in the series, they won because they beat Florida at the forechecking game. They won the puck races. At one point, I was like “Holy shit, this is a changed team. It’s like watching a Lightning game from a couple of years ago” …. then Florida hit a higher gear and never really looked back. The Leafs couldn’t find another higher gear. Toronto was winning, but they were red-lined and the Panthers had another 2000rpm to ramp up.
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Florida is head and shoulders above just about every team in the league. The Leafs need major upgrades to compete on that level, but there really isn’t much out there in this year’s UFA class that is going to move the needle enough. Marner is gone, but paying him $14M wasn’t going to be the answer either. Next year is likely going to be a step backwards, but I’m curious to see what Tre cooks up.
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WHIPPER
Participant
Florida is head and shoulders above just about every team in the league. The Leafs need major upgrades to compete on that level, but there really isn’t much out there in this year’s UFA class that is going to move the needle enough. Marner is gone, but paying him $14M wasn’t going to be the answer either. Next year is likely going to be a step backwards, but I’m curious to see what Tre cooks up.But they aren’t.
Didnt win the division and had the leafs not choked again, they’d be playing the canes. -
Florida is head and shoulders above just about every team in the league. The Leafs need major upgrades to compete on that level, but there really isn’t much out there in this year’s UFA class that is going to move the needle enough. Marner is gone, but paying him $14M wasn’t going to be the answer either. Next year is likely going to be a step backwards, but I’m curious to see what Tre cooks up.
Florida is better than Toronto in a lot of key categories. Of that there is no doubt. However, the Leafs still beat them 3 times. Game 3 went to OT.
That does not scream “major changes”. You must also remember that the Panthers are on their way to their 3rd straight Cup final. That means most of the Panthers have played a total of 60-70 extra playoff games the past 3 years. They have to spend more cap space to keep Bennett, Marchand and Ekblad. Which means, as good as they are, they’re unlikely to be able to get significantly better with what little cap space they have left to keep the band together. And finally, Bob is about to be 37.
All these factors combined means if the Leafs retain Marner, move on from Rielly, Tavares, Jarnkrok and Kampf, the Leafs can bring back the exact same team that pushed Florida to Game 7 but have 28 million to sign the correct replacements to win you ONE extra game.
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WHIPPER
Participant
Florida is head and shoulders above just about every team in the league. The Leafs need major upgrades to compete on that level, but there really isn’t much out there in this year’s UFA class that is going to move the needle enough. Marner is gone, but paying him $14M wasn’t going to be the answer either. Next year is likely going to be a step backwards, but I’m curious to see what Tre cooks up.But they aren’t.
Didnt win the division and had the leafs not choked again, they’d be playing the canes. – FakeI disagree with the 2nd statement but maybe it needs context.
Florida has proven (yet again) they ARE heads and shoulders better than Tampa, Toronto, and are doing the same right now to the Canes when it comes to PLAYOFF HOCKEY.
Leafs winning the division was nice, it didn’t change much come round 2 though but it was nice.
The Leafs “choking again’ was sure some of them being extra leafy but also Florida showing everyone the difference between good and great teams when it comes to playoffs.
There has been a team in the Leafs division who is just better built and / or performs better come playoffs than the Leafs for a long, long time, like as long as the Leafs have been back in the playoffs really. Boston, then Tampa, Habs in the bubble, now Florida. The Leafs can’t continue to be the team who keeps saying and/or believing “if only” that one thing had gone right, that one goal had gone in etc. they would be cup champs and they are 99% of the way to a cup final and win it’s just bad luck and officiating that is holding them back.
If they want to become a top 4 team in this league they absolutely must change HOW the roster is constructed / the cap is spread around IMO.
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But they aren’t.
Didnt win the division and had the leafs not choked again, they’d be playing the canes.
~FakepartofmeYou cannot possibly be serious. Florida didn’t win the division because Barkov and Tkachuk were injured, Ekblad was suspended for 1/4 of the season, and, quite frankly, they probably coasted for most of the season knowing they could just turn it on at any point in the playoffs.
The Leafs didn’t choke, Florida just pounded them into oblivion like they did to Tampa, like they’re doing to Carolina, and like they’ll do to whoever comes out of the West.
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Ultimately, replacing Marner with a Bennett doesn’t really solve for that – it probably makes you even slower with the puck, but more physical.
Bennett scored a career high 51 points last season. And also -15. I could see the argument for adding Bennett. But to replace Marner? That’s a crackhead idea. I’m not saying that’s what you are suggesting but there’s way too many people who seem to think: Marner out, Bennett in, Cup parade.
Not only would he be stupid to leave Florida (more money, less pressure, better weather, proven successful team) but he’s going to get the biggest contract of his career and most of it will be paying him for years after 30. He fits in Florida but his next contract will also be an anchor sooner rather than later.
They need to upgrade the bottom-6 and find a way to improve their puck speed in the top-6. -monkeypunk
You are 100% correct with this statement.
What is the best possible advanced stats 3rd line (LW | C | RW) collection of current UFAs you can find for 12-15 AAV or less?
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You cannot possibly be serious. Florida didn’t win the division because Barkov and Tkachuk were injured, Ekblad was suspended for 1/4 of the season, and, quite frankly, they probably coasted for most of the season knowing they could just turn it on at any point in the playoffs.
The Leafs didn’t choke, Florida just pounded them into oblivion like they did to Tampa, like they’re doing to Carolina, and like they’ll do to whoever comes out of the West.
The Leafs may have been fortunate to win the division but they also had Matthews at 50% for most of the season (when he played) and their own list of injuries, particularly in net. You can debate back and forth if the Leafs could win the division if all things were equal. But in the playoffs, the Leafs made it to Game 7. That you can’t debate.
They started the series with a 2-0 lead. Took Game 3 to OT and could have easily been up 3-0. Then lost in 7. That’s a bit of a choke considering how strong they started and how they fell off towards the end. That being said, they still shut out Florida, in Florida, in Game 6 to survive. Game 5 and Game 7 were a major disappointment, of that there is no doubt, but they didn’t get blown out every game in the series like Carolina is right now. The Leafs had early success, Florida made adjustments and the Leafs didn’t have the depth to counter punch once their top stars got figured out. Florida had the depth even though most of their top guys were also under control (Tkachuk 0 goals in 7 games, for example).
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It does when your hero has given every indication that he wants to play elsewhere.
I am not sure why this is such a hard thing for you to grasp.. Even if the Leafs offered 8 X $14. According to Friedman or Dregger he already turned down 8 x $13.5 in season.
Must be why he accepted the trade to Carolina to play on a better team, make more money after taxes and leave Toronto. Oh wait…he didn’t…
Ever stop to think for a second that the guys in the media are either useful idiots or total liars? Or, get paid by the company that owns the team and therefore has a vested interest in making Marner look as bad as possible to save face for the company because they mismanaged the team so badly they have to make the players seem like bad guys so they can continue to make money without providing results?
Nah, you probably didn’t.
Nobody knows what any real offer or demand actually looked like and how or what was negotiated except management and his agent.
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WHIPPER
Participant
You cannot possibly be serious. Florida didn’t win the division because Barkov and Tkachuk were injured, Ekblad was suspended for 1/4 of the season, and, quite frankly, they probably coasted for most of the season knowing they could just turn it on at any point in the playoffs.The Leafs didn’t choke, Florida just pounded them into oblivion like they did to Tampa, like they’re doing to Carolina, and like they’ll do to whoever comes out of the West.
I know its an excuse leafers like to use…”oh lord, florida oh so tough….such a superpower”. Yes, great team. The Leafs had a 2- 0 series and a 3-1 lead in the 3rd game, the series went 7 games
So no, they didnt pound the leafs into oblivion…..not even close. Had they “pounded the leafs into oblivion”, the series would have been over in 4 games….if anything, they are pounding the canes into oblivion…but the canes have a history of being swept in the 3rd round. The leaf CHOKED. Its that simple. Ya sure they choked against a great team…but they had a 2-0 series lead and 3-1 lead in the 3rd game.
They choked.
Again -
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The series was not as close as it seemed. Bobrovsky was hot trash in games 1 and 2. If he’s average even, those games are split.
The Panthers took more shot attempts, more shots on goal, more chances, more possession, more goals etc. They brought their best, did all that stuff but they still needed 7 games to beat the Leafs.
Florida plays an exceptional high pressure game. But Bob is turning 37 next year. He won’t be Bob for much longer. If the Leafs keep this team together, drop the passengers (Tavares, Rielly, Kampf and Jarnkrok), replace them with needle movers (even just a 5-10% improvement overall), they can beat the Panthers and go further than they have ever gone before.
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It’s going to be difficult to move Rielly.
1st you need him to waive in NMC
2nd you need to find a team that can take on his entire salary with no retention.
3rd get ready for a crappy return ..Kampf has a 10 team no trade clause which can be work with. lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him
Jarnkrok I’d hang on to him. he’s got 1 more year before he’s a UFA. Could be a trade dead line to move him out
Reaves not sure to buy him out or just send him to the minor but he should be done as Leafs.
Robertson is most likely gone and I’d try to move Holmberg
????????¯\(°_o)/¯ -
It’s going to be difficult to move Rielly.
I disagree. It’s a challenge but not any more difficult than deals we’ve seen in the past. Just need to get everybody on the same page and be creative. Let’s all remember, Karlsson got traded at a cap hit over 11 million. There’s always a buyer if the price is right.
1st you need him to waive in NMC
2nd you need to find a team that can take on his entire salary with no retention.
3rd get ready for a crappy return ..I think Rielly, at his best, gets you a 1st round pick, roster player and a top prospect. A guy who can skate and put up 60-70 points at 7.5 AAV would be a bargain. Obviously, he’s not at his best and his value will be nowhere near that. But the cap is going up 7 million dollars this year. That means almost his entire cap hit could be covered by the cap increase alone. The cap minimum is up to 70 million. There’s about to be a big increase in the amount of teams that will be looking to spend money just to reach the cap floor.
Now, that’s not to say Rielly will accept a trade to San Jose, although it’s close enough to BC that he might consider it if they weren’t a trash team, but there are a number of teams that geographically might work for him. Top of the list is Vancouver and Seattle. Possibly Utah because they’re closer to the West and not a bad team either.
In terms of salary, again, because you have so many teams out there looking just to reach the cap floor, you can never dismiss a team being a 3rd party to lower his cap hit. Meaning, Leafs trade Rielly to San Jose (or Columbus), they retain 2-3 million, take a 3rd round pick, then Rielly lands in Vancouver for 4.5 – 5.5 million. Leafs get a 3rd liner and/or a depth D to fill Rielly’s spot at half the cost.
A cap floor team increases it’s cap hit without paying real dollars and gets a draft pick. Vancouver gives up a mid draft pick and a 3rd liner for a player who could replace Hughes when he eventually wants to be moved out. The Leafs get cap relief and a gritty 3rd liner.
Everybody wins.
Kampf has a 10 team no trade clause which can be work with. lucky to get a 3rd round pick for him
Kampf absolutely sucks for what the Leafs need but he’s another guy who would fit on a team somewhere just looking to reach the cap floor and add a 4th liner. Future considerations would be fine.
Jarnkrok I’d hang on to him. he’s got 1 more year before he’s a UFA. Could be a trade dead line to move him out
Jarnkrok is a playoff failure. I think a bubble team would take him but he absolutely sucks for the Leafs. Could easily see him going to a team like Columbus and being able to score 15-20 again but he’s not right for the Leafs.
Reaves not sure to buy him out or just send him to the minor but he should be done as Leafs.
His contract is allegedly very easy to bury. He’s finished. Maybe somebody takes him for a 7th round pick but I don’t think the Leafs need to worry about his contract very much anymore.
Robertson is most likely gone and I’d try to move Holmberg
Would gladly trade both of them as additions to any deal that helps the Leafs acquire more guys like McBain, Pospisil etc.
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Apparently Shanahan nixed the below deal of dubas’.
To Toronto:
Brandon Hagel
Marc-André Fleury (extended)To Chicago:
Matthew Knies (rights)
Petr Mrázek
2022 Toronto 1st (top 10 protected) (Rinzel)
2023 Toronto 1st (top 10 protected) (Cowan. Nadeau?-
Apparently Shanahan nixed the below deal of dubas’.
To Toronto:
Brandon Hagel
Marc-André Fleury (extended)To Chicago:
Matthew Knies (rights)
Petr Mrázek
2022 Toronto 1st (top 10 protected) (Rinzel)
2023 Toronto 1st (top 10 protected) (Cowan. Nadeau?
~FakepartofmeThis was reported but it was debunked by Friedman. Apparently Chicago pitched that and Dubas, as was his job, took the offer to Shanahan but he told him he was rejecting it – which Shanahan agreed with. The idea that Dubas was accepting it I think was pushed by the media that either wanted to hate him or that wanted to make the Leafs look better for firing him.
It’s not like, in Toronto where the media outlets also own the major sports teams, the press can’t be controlled to make the owners look better.
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Marner is walking out the door with no return on the asset.
Not 100% that he’s leaving. That just seems to be the story for idiot fans with bloodlust and the media painting him as the bad guy to cover MLSE’s ass.
Leafs are in a tough spot to try to get better. Not a great pool of free agents and few assets to deal.
If they can reach a deal with Marner, the UFA pool can work in their benefit so long as they purge the roster of the passengers.
And if you let Tavares walk….who is playing center on this team??
It almost doesn’t matter because as long as whomever replaces Tavares isn’t a defensive blackhole, the Leafs will be better off without him.
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I disagree. It’s a challenge but not any more difficult than deals we’ve seen in the past. Just need to get everybody on the same page and be creative. Let’s all remember, Karlsson got traded at a cap hit over 11 million. There’s always a buyer if the price is right.
yep????
with all that dough he must have a good coke dealer that would make him pretty valuable to the canuckleheads lmfaoooo ????????????
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i read a spot on audition blog on the hb that i agree with very much????
after seeing our laffs have the opposition’s will imposed upon them when the rubber has met the road over the last 58 years, i had never taken into consideration that they were actually lacking skilled skaters this whole time????????♂️
if they just had faster, more skilled skaters, they could just outrun and dangle these old timers into the ice like the globetrotters do to the generals????♂️
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if they just had faster, more skilled skaters, they could just outrun and dangle these old timers into the ice like the globetrotters do to the generals. ~ Skalapy????♂️
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How Leafs supposed to improve without draft picks for trades?
To improve from within?
Letting Marner walk is bad, but keeping him for $14+ M is not great either.
I have no idea what magic the management has to pull out to improve this team. -
i read a spot on audition blog on the hb that i agree with very much????
after seeing our laffs have the opposition’s will imposed upon them when the rubber has met the road over the last 58 years, i had never taken into consideration that they were actually lacking skilled skaters this whole time????????♂️
if they just had faster, more skilled skaters, they could just outrun and dangle these old timers into the ice like the globetrotters do to the generals????♂️ – Neckmaster General Skalapy
I went read it. It’s not wrong. It’s actually a decent blog. I just can’t imagine any serious sports-writer wanting to be associated with that place. The forums are full of the worst political troll wars and the entire site is a 1990’s throwback that is impossible to use without an adblocker. Any halfway decent blogger with hopes of being a professional writer would be best served to stay at least 100 nautical miles away from HB (unfortunately).
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That means 1 – 6 next game in Carolina or something like this.
Florida always coming strong after such games like tonight.You’d be surprised, Carolina is a lunch pail team. Florida lost 3 straight games to Edmonton last year too, so they aren’t perfect either. I don’t think they’ll blow the series but Carolina won’t quit. I could see them winning one more.
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I went read it. It’s not wrong. It’s actually a decent blog. I just can’t imagine any serious sports-writer wanting to be associated with that place. The forums are full of the worst political troll wars and the entire site is a 1990’s throwback that is impossible to use without an adblocker. Any halfway decent blogger with hopes of being a professional writer would be best served to stay at least 100 nautical miles away from HB (unfortunately).
i appreciate your appreciation of sarcasm????
my neck is the only part of my body that i can still go hard on????????
i just had to dump a bunch of dough into braces and crowns for all of my molars because i have a giant neck and jowls and bite power like a cane corsoe so with all the strain from jacking steel and other stuff I’d worn them down to nubs????♂️
the dentist told me to wear a mouth piece in the gym so let that be a lesson to you all if you want to lift heavy and be a hard gainer????????
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You’d be surprised, Carolina is a lunch pail team. Florida lost 3 straight games to Edmonton last year too, so they aren’t perfect either. I don’t think they’ll blow the series but Carolina won’t quit. I could see them winning one more.
the hurricant’s are through UG????♂️
they are kinda built like our laffs????????♂️
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Some context for the upcoming free agent spend-off …
Nylanders 11.5M on a $88M cap translates to …
12.5M on a 95.5M cap
13.6M on a 104M cap
14.8M on a 113M capNext summer, if McDavid signs an extension, it’s going to be north of $17M. His current % would translate to $18.8M.
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Some context for the upcoming free agent spend-off …
Nylanders 11.5M on a $88M cap translates to …
12.5M on a 95.5M cap
13.6M on a 104M cap
14.8M on a 113M capNext summer, if McDavid signs an extension, it’s going to be north of $17M. His current % would translate to $18.8M.
It’s going to be interesting to see if the cap projections remain. There’s certainly dark clouds on the economic horizon that make the cap raises look in doubt – Bettman said something to this effect a ways back.
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Some context for the upcoming free agent spend-off …
Nylanders 11.5M on a $88M cap translates to …
12.5M on a 95.5M cap
13.6M on a 104M cap
14.8M on a 113M capNext summer, if McDavid signs an extension, it’s going to be north of $17M. His current % would translate to $18.8M.
~LawsieMarner walking will open up just about all the cap space we need to sign him, then. Sacrifice next season for a Cup in 27. Plus, he’ll take AT LEAST a 50% hometown discount.
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If McDavid wants to come ..he’ll come. Moldover is the agent for both McDavid and Matthews so the discussions would be easy.
That said …I doubt he’s looking to leave unless he brings the Oilers a cup this year?
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I like it.
I’ve actually been talking to Bill Metlzer about contributing here so maybe some of our Habs friends will join us on the Island.
~ScabehThere are certain posters we’re hoping don’t find their way over here, fingers crossed.
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So you guys keep on posting on the same thread and not whatever new blog is popping?
Nobody has ever cared about the blogs.
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WHIPPER
ParticipantThere are certain posters we’re hoping don’t find their way over here, fingers crossed
Too late.
We’ve already got king garbage over here.
No one missed him in the other site. -
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I wish I gave a shit about any of the four remaining teams.
Just wanna see this shit season end and get to the draft day deals.
Yeah, once the Leafs are done, it’s the official beginning of summer. I really haven’t watch much of the remaining two series. I am watching the Memorial Cup, due to Easton Cowan and his skills development in big games. The Hunters are really top notch hockey experts. It wouldn’t be shameful to wish that both of them could some day find their way to becoming GM and Head Coach in Toronto. Knights hockey seems to teach solid forechecking and defensive responsibilities. All of the games have been close, but London seems to find a way to win. Hopefully, they can win it for the OHL.
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The Cap needs to get fixed.
Rantanen’s 12M in Dallas equates to about $15.75 in Canada. Yes, RCA’s may soften the tax blow (although the player would have to take residency in the US when they retire, they’d have to park 50% of their income into the RCA during their career ….And, RCA’s are under legal attack by CRA right now) but if I’m a high earning player there’s so many reasons to head south.
Canadian kids/residents have it the worst from a tax perspective. Matthews, Knies ..can use US residency and bonuses to come out nicely but JT, MM ..can’t escape.
At smaller salaries ..no biggy. But at 10M+ the tax gap has become waayyyyyy too big a difference. After tax dollars probably creates more problems then it solves but surely they can move to a luxery tax or have some kind of flat tax discount (5%) or whatever.
Canadian teams, the Rangers, and some others are at a ~15% disadvantage on the Cap. Imagine these teams having even 5% ($5M) back in the pot. That’s another middle six forward or top 4 dman. Or reverse that, imagine Florida without the ability to add Jones and Marchand b/c they don’t have the cap space.
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Frank Seravelli on Sportsnet this morning said the leafs have been gauging interest in marner with other teams since last summer. No team wanted to a trade unless it came with an extension. Apparently, leafs were looking for a deal they liked and then were going to approach marner. He also said that he has spoken with several players who have been in the “orbit” (his word) of the core 3 and in the “orbit” of other top players in the league and he was told that the core 3 just dont work hard enough, seem complacent and dont seem to want it as much as others. That seems to fly considering what we’ve seen the past several years.
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Frank Seravelli on Sportsnet this morning said the leafs have been gauging interest in marner with other teams since last summer. No team wanted to a trade unless it came with an extension. Apparently, leafs were looking for a deal they liked and then were going to approach marner. He also said that he has spoken with several players who have been in the “orbit” (his word) of the core 3 and in the “orbit” of other top players in the league and he was told that the core 3 just dont work hard enough, seem complacent and dont seem to want it as much as others. That seems to fly considering what we’ve seen the past several years. – Fake
This rings true. I have no idea whether it’s actually true or not, but it rings true. Why should they bust ass for a raise when they already got the raise just for showing up to camp?
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Frank Seravelli on Sportsnet this morning said the leafs have been gauging interest in marner with other teams since last summer. No team wanted to a trade unless it came with an extension. Apparently, leafs were looking for a deal they liked and then were going to approach marner. He also said that he has spoken with several players who have been in the “orbit” (his word) of the core 3 and in the “orbit” of other top players in the league and he was told that the core 3 just dont work hard enough, seem complacent and dont seem to want it as much as others. That seems to fly considering what we’ve seen the past several years.
Ya, I find Seravelli pretty ‘dramatic’ so I think that’s likely more opinion then fact BUT, I agree …Leafs need an alpha or two in the mix.
Even Florida has Barkov and Reinhart (people have doubted both have “heart” over their careers) but they surround them with Bennett and Tkachuck types.
Gotta have the right mix.
Poor Tree had about 6 weeks on the job before Marner’s NMC kicked in so this is a Dubas reality. Although Tree did lock in Nylander when, in theory, he could have moved on from him instead. I know 88 had a very productive year …but remember how he played from October-January last season? He hounded the puck every shift …he was arguably the best player in the NHL for long stretches of time …we haven’t seen that since he autographed that very expensive paperwork.
Change is needed.
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this site is so hard to use, I dont know if its someones post or the post someone is replying too. why tf doesnt the quote work
– Senstrolltwo
Yeah, there’s alot of manual involved in replying/quoting someone. Hopefully this gets improved in the near future because it could be way more user friendly! 🙂
For example, I had to copy/paste your quote, highlight it to quote it, add your name and then start replying.
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i have no interest in doing that much work to post – SensTroll
I don’t like it either, but it’s a small price to pay not to listen to the wild conspiracy-laden political diatribes that hijack threads and go on for pages and pages and pages. Also the random bans for no reason. Site admin who doesn’t know how to use a spellchecker, less yet operate the admin interface of a 30-year old piece of forum abandonware.
The quote thing is a PITA, but I can live with it and I hope they fix it.
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Lawsie
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Ya, I find Seravelli pretty ‘dramatic’ so I think that’s likely more opinion then fact BUT, I agree …Leafs need an alpha or two in the mix.Even Florida has Barkov and Reinhart (people have doubted both have “heart” over their careers) but they surround them with Bennett and Tkachuck types.
Gotta have the right mix.
Poor Tree had about 6 weeks on the job before Marner’s NMC kicked in so this is a Dubas reality. Although Tree did lock in Nylander when, in theory, he could have moved on from him instead. I know 88 had a very productive year …but remember how he played from October-January last season? He hounded the puck every shift …he was arguably the best player in the NHL for long stretches of time …we haven’t seen that since he autographed that very expensive paperwork.
Change is needed.
I agree he is dramatic at times, but I have no doubt the leafs were gauging interest in MArner and I have no doubt our core 3 arent as driven as other stars around the league.
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I agree he is dramatic at times, but I have no doubt the leafs were gauging interest in MArner and I have no doubt our core 3 arent as driven as other stars around the league.
~Fakepartofme
I think we know what we see with our eyes and how we feel about it. Here’s the thing I’d have to question – Berube is a take-no-shit coach. He will call out a floater, especially if he needs those buttons pushed. Why didn’t he? He actually doubled down on how much he thought they cared and tried.
I think it’s less about their drive and desire and more about needing an instructor to show them the way. Think about who led these guys? Marleau and Thornton were the shepherds to success. Two guys who won absolutely nothing in the NHL; they did win gold medals in the World Championships or the Olympics, but were largely contributors, not leaders (Thornton did lead Canada to the World Championship gold in the lockout year and led Davos to the Spengler cup in the same year) – and when playing against real NHL peers in the toughest of competition, neither were truly prominent.
Even Tavares, on the Island, had a couple of years of broken down Doug Weight as his mentor, but Weight was largely injured and they didn’t make the playoffs in those years either.
You need someone to show you how and lead the way. Have they really had that? Because if we shouldn’t question their desire and effort, then that has to be it, doesn’t it?
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I think we know what we see with our eyes and how we feel about it. Here’s the thing I’d have to question – Berube is a take-no-shit coach. He will call out a floater, especially if he needs those buttons pushed. Why didn’t he? He actually doubled down on how much he thought they cared and tried.
I think it’s less about their drive and desire and more about needing an instructor to show them the way. Think about who led these guys? Marleau and Thornton were the shepherds to success. Two guys who won absolutely nothing in the NHL; they did win gold medals in the World Championships or the Olympics, but were largely contributors, not leaders (Thornton did lead Canada to the World Championship gold in the lockout year and led Davos to the Spengler cup in the same year) – and when playing against real NHL peers in the toughest of competition, neither were truly prominent.
Even Tavares, on the Island, had a couple of years of broken down Doug Weight as his mentor, but Weight was largely injured and they didn’t make the playoffs in those years either.
You need someone to show you how and lead the way. Have they really had that? Because if we shouldn’t question their desire and effort, then that has to be it, doesn’t it? – Mokeypuck
You nailed it (IMO) on what is one of the biggest gaps with the Leafs with respect to the ‘vets’ that have been brought in to show the young guys what it takes, how to win. I loved Marleau and Jumbo and love JT but these are 3 guys who never managed to have great TEAM success in the NHL playoffs so should we be surprised the ‘young core of kids’ has now grown into the no longer kids core who can’t?
Making JT captain may have been a mistake but I’m sure it was part of the sales pitch so they had no real reason to not do it if they wanted JT (which nearly everyone did even those slagging him now would have been whining non-stop had the leafs not got him about what a mistake it was to not do so).
Making Matthews captain – I’m not sold on at this point BUT what other options did they have really? Who was a bigger profile player who I would assume many of the team look up to? They probably should have just run with no C for a bit and done the 4 x “A”‘s and given one to Tanev the minute he signed.
I’d be fine with a true blockbuster trade to bring that person into the fold with the Leafs and eventually make them the official captain (while unofficially they are the captain). I’d actually kinda’ like to see it regardless of who is involved (of course I’d judge the trade endlessly for years) but in this day and age you don’t see those often if ever.
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I don’t like it either, but it’s a small price to pay not to listen to the wild conspiracy-laden political diatribes that hijack threads and go on for pages and pages and pages. Also the random bans for no reason. Site admin who doesn’t know how to use a spellchecker, less yet operate the admin interface of a 30-year old piece of forum abandonware.
The quote thing is a PITA, but I can live with it and I hope they fix it.
i havent seen much of that latley..but one poster seems to be here…so yeah.
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Lawsie
Participant
The Cap needs to get fixed.Rantanen’s 12M in Dallas equates to about $15.75 in Canada. Yes, RCA’s may soften the tax blow (although the player would have to take residency in the US when they retire, they’d have to park 50% of their income into the RCA during their career ….And, RCA’s are under legal attack by CRA right now) but if I’m a high earning player there’s so many reasons to head south.
Canadian kids/residents have it the worst from a tax perspective. Matthews, Knies ..can use US residency and bonuses to come out nicely but JT, MM ..can’t escape.
At smaller salaries ..no biggy. But at 10M+ the tax gap has become waayyyyyy too big a difference. After tax dollars probably creates more problems then it solves but surely they can move to a luxery tax or have some kind of flat tax discount (5%) or whatever.
Canadian teams, the Rangers, and some others are at a ~15% disadvantage on the Cap. Imagine these teams having even 5% ($5M) back in the pot. That’s another middle six forward or top 4 dman. Or reverse that, imagine Florida without the ability to add Jones and Marchand b/c they don’t have the cap space.
If you’re a Canadian than a $12M contract is $16.6m in Cdn funds.
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PDO Speedwagon
ParticipantI don’t like it either, but it’s a small price to pay not to listen to the wild conspiracy-laden political diatribes that hijack threads and go on for pages and pages and pages. Also the random bans for no reason. Site admin who doesn’t know how to use a spellchecker, less yet operate the admin interface of a 30-year old piece of forum abandonware.
The quote thing is a PITA, but I can live with it and I hope they fix it.
It hasnt been that bad at the other site lately….and the person responsible for most of the conspiracy-laden political diatribe is now here as well….and already started.
As for the random bans…..dunno..never came across any myself…but I rarely go into non leafs blogs or call out EK in any blog.-
It hasnt been that bad at the other site lately….and the person responsible for most of the conspiracy-laden political diatribe is here as well….and already started.
As for the random bans…..dunno..never came across any myself…but I rarely go into non leafs blogs or call out EK in any blog. – FakeIt gives me no joy to criticize HB or Ek. It was the first place I met up online with other hockey fans and had meaningful discussions and a little fun. I think deep down Ek is a decent guy who is passionate about hockey. But, he’s in over his head trying to admin a busy site that barely runs on a rotting infrastructure of 30+ year old abandonware.
The aggressive ads and popup windows that force users to install adblockers to use the site is self-defeating. Nobody is seeing those ads, so they can’t generate revenue. Or, they see them, get frustrated by them and leave (and never return).
He let trolls hijack his forums and make a mockery of his moderators. Then refuses to take the most basic and easy steps to mitigate that.
It’s the Buffalo Sabres of hockey forums.
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It hasnt been that bad at the other site lately….and the person responsible for most of the conspiracy-laden political diatribe is now here as well….and already started.
As for the random bans…..dunno..never came across any myself…but I rarely go into non leafs blogs or call out EK in any blog. – FakesieI got banned for replying to Ek in his thread – after Ek said that my comment was “a good point.”
And I reached out to Ek and Kevin Allan – neither had the courtesy to reply to me.
It looks, feels and smells like it is days away from disappearing.
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13 mil for Marner or is money better spent signing Bennett say 8-9mil (I know crazy money) and one of these players
Tanner Jeannot
Pius Suter
Radek Faksa
Brandon Tanev
Yanni GourdeLeafs have to beef up the bottom 6..they cant hang with Florida at all
I agree, but I think bennett cost closer to 10m per to get him to Toronto…on a 7 year deal
It may be wiser or more cap friendly to sign Nelson or Granlund or Duchene as a 2nd/3rd line center on a shorter cheaper deal and then try to sign TWO of the players you mentioned?
I think Tanev is must either way.
They will also need another 2nd/3rd line (maybe JT on the cheap) a top 6 winger (I mentioned P Kane a while ago) and a 4-6 dman. -
I agree, but I think bennett cost closer to 10m per to get him to Toronto…on a 7 year deal
It may be wiser or more cap friendly to sign Nelson or Granlund or Duchene as a 2nd/3rd line center on a shorter cheaper deal and then try to sign TWO of the players you mentioned?
I think Tanev is must either way.
They will also need another 2nd/3rd line (maybe JT on the cheap) a top 6 winger (I mentioned P Kane a while ago) and a 4-6 dman.10m is pretty crazy. his reg season is not in that realm, but his playoffs are worth it. but does he replicate that on another team..not likley.
They had 22 Mil in Marner/JT
Can you get Bennet, JT and Tanev for the same dollars -
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Atomic Wedgie
Participant
I got banned for replying to Ek in his thread – after Ek said that my comment was “a good point.”And I reached out to Ek and Kevin Allan – neither had the courtesy to reply to me.
It looks, feels and smells like it is days away from disappearing.
Ya your ban seems crazy and uncalled for sure, based on the details you’ve provided. And its weird that it occurred to others within the same short timeframe…maybe the site was hacked? Dunno. Cause that never seemed to have occurred in the past…it was mods that were handing out bans…sometimes for personal reasons.
Honestly, I wouldnt expect Ek to reply to anyone based on ban….Im sure he would have alot to reply to.but people have been saying for years that HB is days away from collaspe and it never occurs. Unless they miss their server bills.
So far, neither site is perfect…..and I dont anticipate either will be. -
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It looks, feels and smells like it is days away from disappearing. – wedgie
No chance
I gets youre mad at it but you will be back there and Marner will be a Leaf again. just watch -
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People afraid or opposed to moderation are the ones who need to be moderated the most.
Also FYI I got a PM from BIG23Questions on the other board – he said whomever is posting here using his username from HB is an imposter as he tried to register here using it and someone else already had done so.
That’s kinda’ a POS move if true.
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Since your not actually BIG23QUESTIONS why don’t you tell us who you really are and why you decided to use that user name here? -Cush
23BigQuestions is the imposter. Already msgd you that.- Big23Questions
You messaged me on the other board but did not say that (although it’s entirely possible 23BigQuestions is an imposter) at all.
Feel free to message me on the other board to clarify, you can reply to my PM there and I’ll edit the posts here to clear it up.
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Confirmed (if anyone cares) User 23BigQuestions HERE is the actual poster from HB (with the handle there Big23Questions) as he messaged me on HB just now.
I’m so relieved.
Thank you for your service.
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This guy UG or Rare or Nighthawk or whatever one of his multiple accounts he’s hiding behind – is a recipe for this place to become as polluted as the last. There are a couple posters who will just decimate a thread and project their life long failures onto others. They never played the game, they know dick all about what they watch, and just counter points out of boredom. Feedbags living at home still.
Coming here thinking this place would be moderated a bit better was a silly thought. All guys like this do is cause shit. Sad pathetic little fellas.
…Big23Questions is a fake.
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I won’t repost that pic ;to save everyone looking at it again but who ever told Marner that looked good clearly does not have his best interests at heart.
Was it Batman perhaps looking for a new Joker?
JFC
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8 years, 13.16 AAV. Kampf has been traded for future considerations to accommodate the increase.
~UGThat’s a hard pass for me. Can’t be paying a guy 15% of the cap to disappear when the games mean something*
*Yes, I understand we’re paying 2 other players that kind of money to have the same results, but what’s done is done.
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That’s a hard pass for me. Can’t be paying a guy 15% of the cap to disappear when the games mean something*
*Yes, I understand we’re paying 2 other players that kind of money to have the same results, but what’s done is done. -WHIPPER
Really? Because that’s factually inaccurate. Marner helped win 2 out of the 3 games against Florida, one with a GWG and the other with a primary assist in Game 6 for the GWG. Matthews had a GWG in Game 6. Knies had a GWG too. It was actually Tavares and Nylander who did next to nothing when the games mattered. And they were on the ice for A LOT of goals against. More than any other forward. Those are the real guys who disappeared.
So…your argument doesn’t hold water.
You’re also unlikely to find guys who actually want to come to Toronto who will be better than Marner for that 15% cap hit.
At least in the scenario where you sign Marner and trade Nylander, you get something in return for Nylander. It’s basic asset management.
Luckily, if they dump Tavares and Rielly, they can keep both, which would be the best course of action.
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Florida off to the Final again. 3rd year in a row. Scored 5+ goals in 4 out of 5 games.
Leafs, as flawed as they were, took this team to Game 7.
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Really? Because that’s factually inaccurate.
UGNo its not. I know you dont like facts but marner had 1 assist in the final 4 games against the panthers and 2 assist in the final 3 games against Ottawa.
For $11m he disappears when games count.
In 2023 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games against boston
In 2022 he had 1 assist and 1 goal in the final 3 games against Florida…he showed up for one game
In 2021 he had 2 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against tampa
In 2020 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against Montreal
Horrible stats for an $11m player….even worse for if he wants $13mThese are facts. So what was previous said was FACTUALLY correct.
Once again…you are not. -
No its not. I know you dont like facts but marner had 1 assist in the final 4 games against the panthers and 2 assist in the final 3 games against Ottawa.
For $11m he disappears when games count.
In 2023 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games against boston
In 2022 he had 1 assist and 1 goal in the final 3 games against Florida…he showed up for one game
In 2021 he had 2 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against tampa
In 2020 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against Montreal
Horrible stats for an $11m player….even worse for if he wants $13mThese are facts. So what was previous said was FACTUALLY correct.
Once again…you are not.
~FakepartofmeLOL, Marner made one 4ft pass in game six but was otherwise invisible, and homers acting like he put the team on his back and carried them to the win. I don’t know why I even bother responding to some folks.
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Don’t want take anything from Leafs, but Florida did not show up for the first 2 games, especially Bobrobsky.
~AlexTMLPrecisely this. We caught them flat footed, and even though the Leafs won the first two, the games weren’t blowouts at all. Florida was hanging in there but the Leafs just managed to get a few clutch goals at the perfect times.
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So its Tre and Berubes who will guide the ship…where it goes…we will see
~senstrolltwoI have complete confidence in the two of them and I’m very optimistic for the future. Florida is going to plateau or get worse, other teams will improve too, but the Leafs have all the pieces they need and a little flexibility with cap space and moveable contracts.
Let Tre cook.
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As we watch Florida go to the finals for the third year in a row, and reflecting on the Lightning’s mini-dynasty in the Covid era, it seems laughable now that folks thought NHL hockey wouldn’t work in Florida.
I think a Florida team has won the East for the last five or six years (too lazy to Google).
So, apparently Florida teams went into the meth store, smoked all the meth, and they had to close the meth store.
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I have complete confidence in the two of them and I’m very optimistic for the future. Florida is going to plateau or get worse, other teams will improve too, but the Leafs have all the pieces they need and a little flexibility with cap space and moveable contracts.
Let Tre cook.
I never have complete confidence in any of the Leafs anyone anymore.
Just wait and see is all I do now. nothing ever works. Lets try another thing
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I never have complete confidence in any of the Leafs anyone anymore.
Just wait and see is all I do now. nothing ever works. Lets try another thing
Well at least with Shanahan gone, you’ll know whatever move Treliving does will be his own.
The lack of first rounders for the next two season hurts though.
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Really? Because that’s factually inaccurate.
UGNo its not. I know you dont like facts but marner had 1 assist in the final 4 games against the panthers and 2 assist in the final 3 games against Ottawa.
For $11m he disappears when games count.
In 2023 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games against boston
In 2022 he had 1 assist and 1 goal in the final 3 games against Florida…he showed up for one game
In 2021 he had 2 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against tampa
In 2020 he had 1 assist in the final 3 games….technically final 4 games against Montreal
Horrible stats for an $11m player….even worse for if he wants $13mThese are facts. So what was previous said was FACTUALLY correct.
Once again…you are not. – FakeBang on but we all know Uggie no likey the facts.
And as Whipper said trying to paint the picture that Marner was anything other than pedestrian (at best) in the final 4 games vs Florida is an absolute lie, when you layer in he was paid 10.9 M it’s a travesty. And (because we all know the deflection, goal post moving and whataboutisms are coming) the rest of the core also shit the bed in games 4-7.
That being said to post endlessly in multiple threads ripping on JT saying he was why they lost, the absolute worst because he didn’t score more all the while JT makes a whopping 100K more than Marner AND plays on L2 without the benefit of an AM and Knies with less minutes but cry over and over that they can’t afford to let Marner go is so funny it’s almost sad.
One 4 foot pass that required zero playmaking ability really where AM goes and rips one home – that same pass could have been made by anyone, and I mean anyone on the roster. Anyone puffing up their chest and trying to say the “Primary assist on the GWG” was some huge accomplishment is kidding themselves.
Marner’s GWG was a seeing eye shot off a screen he floated from the half wall, it was a ‘throw it on net and hope for good things” which worked – his teammates put up a great screen for him and it’s something Marner (and the other skilled players) needed to do more of – shoot the fucking puck through traffic and look for greasy playoff goals.
How anyone can claim ANY of the core was good enough in games 4-7 is wild.
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Read a yahoo sports article today saying Jonathan Marchessault is willing to waive his no trade to be moved. He’s got 4 more years at 5.5M per and is 34 and will be 35 come December (he’s 3 months younger than JT).
Is he a possibly 1st/2nd line RW replacement for Marner (L2 if Willy moves to L1)?
Wonder what it would cost to get him out of Nashville?
This may also help set the bar for a JT re-up but cheaper on a home town discout.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/former-golden-knights-forward-reportedly-204137482.html
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Read a yahoo sports article today saying Jonathan Marchessault is willing to waive his no trade to be moved. He’s got 4 more years at 5.5M per and is 34 and will be 35 come December (he’s 3 months younger than JT).
Is he a possibly 1st/2nd line RW replacement for Marner (L2 if Willy moves to L1)?
Wonder what it would cost to get him out of Nashville?
This may also help set the bar for a JT re-up but cheaper on a home town discout.
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/former-golden-knights-forward-reportedly-204137482.html
– Cush29Did you also read that he wants to go the Habs.
Are the Leafs on his 15 team no trade list?-
Did you also read that he wants to go the Habs.
Are the Leafs on his 15 team no trade list? -dmntedI read the article if that’s what your asking and yes it was mentioned that Frank Servalli said in a perfect world he’d like to go home and join the Habs. I also factored in it’s Frank Servalli who says alot of shit and hopes some of it sticks and becomes true. lol
I think Servalli is a bit of an idiot with very little real inside info to be honest.
No clue who is on his 15 team list – Leafs for sure could be on there but the sudden move or willingness to move (again if true) makes me think after being so successful in Vegas he sees that Nashville may not be cup competitive for awhile and he wants to jump to a team he feels is closer to being a cup contender.
Guess we will see – you watch Florida will get him….sigh.
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Whipper
This place glitched up on me
Had to delete account and re-register
Still tough finding forums, locked at game 3 blogWhich one of you bastards hacked my buzzard account and was insulting Ek?
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It doesn’t take an insult. Trust me.
From what I gather, someone is just randomly banning Leafs fans for poops and giggles.
Probably a disgruntled ex-employee, trying to take down Ek’s site.
Well with posters getting banned, blogs being deleted, the minimum he should do/have done is send a message about it.
I think the move here for everyone should be permanent.
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Well with posters getting banned, blogs being deleted, the minimum he should do/have done is send a message about it.
I think the move here for everyone should be permanent.
~Hugo Brossoit
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Brad wants to “change the DNA”. That is word salad that means nothing.
They weren’t that close. This isn’t a “mindset” thing. The group of players is not good enough in big moments.
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I’m so confused. I was lead to believe that Chief hated Nylander and he was imminently being shipped out of town! I don’t know what to believe anymore.
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Don’t want take anything from Leafs, but Florida did not show up for the first 2 games, especially Bobrobsky. -alex
But you are literally taking it away from the Leafs to say Florida and Bob didn’t show up. Maybe the Leafs did enough to stop Florida from playing their game. They won 3 games, which is more than any other opponent could say up to this point. The Leafs did get outplayed for a lot of the series, of that there is no doubt, but they still won 3 games. You can’t take that away from them. And it’s a sign that the good pieces of this team should not be thrown away. They just have to zero in on who the problem was (Rielly, Tavares and the bottom-six) and replace them.
LOL, Marner made one 4ft pass in game six but was otherwise invisible, and homers acting like he put the team on his back and carried them to the win. I don’t know why I even bother responding to some folks. -whipper
This is just hater shit at this point. He stole the puck, made a great pass and helped set up Matthews, who did next to nothing the rest of the series too. He helped win 2 out of the 3 games the Leafs won. He killed penalties. He helped keep the Panthers top line in check. He did more than Nylander and Tavares in Game 5, 6 and 7. Tavares did fucking nothing in 6 out of 7 games but he’s not getting run out of town because he’s supposedly going to continue being a defensive nightmare and a loser, but as long as he does it for less money, he’s still a God. Don’t bother responding is right.
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Sign Corry Perry for 3 year deal, they guy getting younger and younger. -alex
Leafs were too stupid to sign Perry. That boat sailed a long time ago. He deserves a Cup in Edmonton.
Who cares what Brad says to the press. Sounds like things are cold with MM and warm with MK ….Tavares is a we’ll see. Change the DNA tells me that he wants to change the core …change the soul.
I think he wants to do the right thing …lets see if he can. -law
Change the DNA is get rid of Rielly, the stripped captain and most of the bottom-six.
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I saw a trade proposal between the Leaf and Vegas
Leafs get Karlsson for David Kampf, 2027 second-round pick, 2025 third-round pick (Colorado).
Then Vegas could take a run at signing Marner as I don’t think Marner will resign with the Leafs.This would leave the Leafs with hardly any draft picks for a few years.
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Mr. Sir
Participant
In order to save money for 2026 UFA crop but still be competitive next year…..
We need some solid 1 year optionsP Kane
Toews
????????Anyone else taking a 1 year deal?
I mentioned a week ago I think P Kane would be a good short term add. Play him with Matthews, see how things go.
I feel like Toews may sign with the jets.But a 1 year under a $1m deal with the leafs I would be fine with.
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dmnted
Participant
I saw a trade proposal between the Leaf and Vegas
Leafs get Karlsson for David Kampf, 2027 second-round pick, 2025 third-round pick (Colorado).
Then Vegas could take a run at signing Marner as I don’t think Marner will resign with the Leafs.This would leave the Leafs with hardly any draft picks for a few years.
Leafs really cant afford to lose any more picks.
I had suggested a sign and trade with Vegas. Marner at years for either Hertl or Karlsson
Dump Kampf elsewhere for a pick -
Change the DNA is get rid of Rielly, the stripped captain and most of the bottom-six.
-UGWell this will be an up hill battle for the Leafs to move Rielly with his NMC. He controls his destiny.
If this year UFA were better, then the bottom-6 could be rejigged but there isn’t much out there this year. -
Change the DNA is get rid of Rielly, the stripped captain and most of the bottom-six. UG
For what it’s worth Lebrun reported that Rielly/Leafs told him that Rielly will be back …will not waive NMC.
DNA/Change is really down to two options …..don’t re-sign Marner or re-sign Marner and trade Nylander. One of them is moving on and frankly, with all the talking heads reporting that Marner told Tree last summer he wasn’t talking contract until the end of the season, I have to believe he’s gone.
Knies-Matthews-PKane
Ehlers-Bennett-Bystander
McMann-Tavares-Domi
Big 4th line …..The math could work. Kane and Tavares do 1 yr deals. Leafs have a bunch of room next summer. If Bennett stays in Florida ….maybe it’s Duchene or Nelson.
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Change the DNA is get rid of Rielly, the stripped captain and most of the bottom-six. UG
For what it’s worth Lebrun reported that Rielly/Leafs told him that Rielly will be back …will not waive NMC.
DNA/Change is really down to two options …..don’t re-sign Marner or re-sign Marner and trade Nylander. One of them is moving on and frankly, with all the talking heads reporting that Marner told Tree last summer he wasn’t talking contract until the end of the season, I have to believe he’s gone.
Knies-Matthews-PKane
Ehlers-Bennett-Bystander
McMann-Tavares-Domi
Big 4th line …..The math could work. Kane and Tavares do 1 yr deals. Leafs have a bunch of room next summer. If Bennett stays in Florida ….maybe it’s Duchene or Nelson.
Love that player.
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The math could work. Kane and Tavares do 1 yr deals. Leafs have a bunch of room next summer. If Bennett stays in Florida ….maybe it’s Duchene or Nelson.
-LawsieDuchene will stay in Dallas IMO and Nelson is on the wrong side of time, again imo.
Ehlers and Bennett will be around 8M each to sign me thinks. Could be do able.-
Duchene will stay in Dallas IMO and Nelson is on the wrong side of time, again imo.
Ehlers and Bennett will be around 8M each to sign me thinks. Could be do able.I’m not saying he’s worth that much.
But I think a team will go overboard and offer close to 10M for Sam Bennett.
With the cap going up, some GMs will go completely insane with spending this summer.
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I’m not saying he’s worth that much.
But I think a team will go overboard and offer close to 10M for Sam Bennett.
With the cap going up, some GMs will go completely insane with spending this summer. – Scabby
10M for Bennett is a no for me. Still have Dave Bolland / Wendel Clarkson PTSD.
Both those “hometown boys” were supposed to be what the Leafs lacked, make them tougher, knew how to win etc.
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Change the DNA feels like a GM who wants to say make a major change with respect to the players on the roster but knows he can’t say that.
The Leafs / Tre are saying all the right things about Marner because they have to make an offer but Tre did say something lie Mitch has a say in all this and it’s not just the Brad show.
To me that’s setting the table so the narrative when Marner walks is not just “Leafs let him walk” and can be more “we couldn’t come to an agreement”.
They want Mitch to take some blame if/when he leaves – rightfully so IMO.
Getting rid of Reilly the 2nd pairing Dman or the former captain who is a 2nd line C on many teams in the league and a 2nd line winger or 3rd line c on any team who will take a big haircut to come back isn’t changing the DNA.
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I feel like Toews may sign with the jets. – Fakesie
This is going to be interesting to watch.
The guy is 37 years old, and hasn’t played since 2022-23 – and didn’t put up great numbers (although he was battling multiple ailments).
I think this is a classic case of hoping you get the guy from 10 years ago – and you will end up terribly disappointed.
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This is going to be interesting to watch.
The guy is 37 years old, and hasn’t played since 2022-23 – and didn’t put up great numbers (although he was battling multiple ailments).
I think this is a classic case of hoping you get the guy from 10 years ago – and you will end up terribly disappointed.
Someone will give him a deal with a small base salary attached to plenty of bonuses.
Hell, if the Habs strikeout with other options to fill their centre line, they could easily consider him.
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This is going to be interesting to watch.
The guy is 37 years old, and hasn’t played since 2022-23 – and didn’t put up great numbers (although he was battling multiple ailments).
I think this is a classic case of hoping you get the guy from 10 years ago – and you will end up terribly disappointed.
most likely. my expectations would be a 3rd line C. 30-40 points. but decent D
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It’s quite the accomplishment to put up a forum with modern software that somehow has less features than HB. LOL.
I’m generally against signing geezers, but if Patches retires, I wouldn’t be adverse to taking a flyer on Toews or Kane if they’d sign for a small salary with a bunch of incentive bonuses. Toews feels like more of a risk.
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I’m generally against signing geezers, but if Patches retires, I wouldn’t be adverse to taking a flyer on Toews or Kane if they’d sign for a small salary with a bunch of incentive bonuses. Toews feels like more of a risk.
~PDFI think Patches is done, sounds like the time away from his family took it’s toll. I doubt Kane wants to play in Canada. Toews is not likely to come to the Leafs, but if he did I’d happily take a shot on him if he signed for league minimum plus incentives.
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@Unholy_Goalie
Participant“This is just hater shit at this point. He stole the puck, made a great pass and helped set up Matthews, who did next to nothing the rest of the series too. Unholy_Goalie
Participant…”Wrong. This is why you I’ve zero credibility with your page after page of arguing just to argue – You have no clue what you watch. Sure you have a load of opinions but they are never actually smart hockey takes cause you’ve never played and don’t get it. You regurgitate things others post on line.
Tue actual play you spoke about from Mitchy… The Panthers dman made a poor pass to his partner (puck was a tick ahead and rolled off toe – puck went off boards right to Marner who turned with it and shoveled a 2ft pass (through nobody or anything…like any player can do). Matthews went in and scored.
Marner ‘stole’ the puck and made a ‘great’ pass. More uneducated (hockey wise) bullshit from this clown.
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Marner Boeser Ehlers JT Duchene Nelson
Bennett Giroux Marchand Palmieri Drouin
Suter Granlund Benn Kuzmenko Smith Donato Roslovic Mangiapane Gourde Kane Frederic Jeannot Kuraly Armia Brown Raddysh Beauvillier Saad Skinner Cousins Bjugstad Gaudette Tanev Eller KuninLots of good options
Pack your ???? #16 -
The question is who on that list changes the “DNA” of the group AND makes us better. Because Tree needs to do both. I don’t envy him.
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The question is who on that list changes the “DNA” of the group AND makes us better. Because Tree needs to do both. I don’t envy him.
~fifty mission cap
I’ve said this recently, and I believe it – I don’t think you replace Marner. The point here is that this is a team that loses too many 50/50 battles for pucks. They lose on the boards. Those lose in front of their net. They lose in front of the opposition’s net. The DNA here, in my opinion, is that there’s too much soft and not enough compete.
Now if I had my way we’d be moving on from Marner, Robertson, Jarnkrok, Kampf and Patches. If they could get Rielly to waive, I’d do that, too – but replacing him would be difficult, because no matter how lousy he is at defense, you still need some puck movement and skating up the ice.
The guys *I’d* want to target are Bennett, Marchand, Suter, Tanev; I’d see it as Knies-Matthews-Domi; Tavares/Marchand-Bennett-Nylander; Tavares/Marchand-Suter-McMann; Lorentz-Laughton-Tanev. There’s still pop in the top-6, but you add compete and more 50/50 puck battles won and the bottom-6 gains some offensive traction on the 3rd line with defensive awareness and lots of puck battle in that mix. There are a lot of names in the bottom-6 mix which can help a team – Smith is a favourite of mine; I like Roslovic and I appreciate the speed of Mangiapane or Granlund. There are ways to remake parts of this team in ways that compliment the key pieces. Marchand is a guy that I would absolutely target because you need a voice that knows how to win and what it takes to win and can still lead by example. He’d be my #1 target if I were Treliving.
Does that change the “DNA”? I don’t know – but they need less passivity, and they’re just carrying too much of it with both Mitch and Willy.
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I’ve said this recently, and I believe it – I don’t think you replace Marner. The point here is that this is a team that loses too many 50/50 battles for pucks. They lose on the boards. Those lose in front of their net. They lose in front of the opposition’s net. The DNA here, in my opinion, is that there’s too much soft and not enough compete.
Now if I had my way we’d be moving on from Marner, Robertson, Jarnkrok, Kampf and Patches. If they could get Rielly to waive, I’d do that, too – but replacing him would be difficult, because no matter how lousy he is at defense, you still need some puck movement and skating up the ice.
The guys *I’d* want to target are Bennett, Marchand, Suter, Tanev; I’d see it as Knies-Matthews-Domi; Tavares/Marchand-Bennett-Nylander; Tavares/Marchand-Suter-McMann; Lorentz-Laughton-Tanev. There’s still pop in the top-6, but you add compete and more 50/50 puck battles won and the bottom-6 gains some offensive traction on the 3rd line with defensive awareness and lots of puck battle in that mix. There are a lot of names in the bottom-6 mix which can help a team – Smith is a favourite of mine; I like Roslovic and I appreciate the speed of Mangiapane or Granlund. There are ways to remake parts of this team in ways that compliment the key pieces. Marchand is a guy that I would absolutely target because you need a voice that knows how to win and what it takes to win and can still lead by example. He’d be my #1 target if I were Treliving.
Does that change the “DNA”? I don’t know – but they need less passivity, and they’re just carrying too much of it with both Mitch and Willy.
Marchand on the Leafs…. Are you trying to make me hate the Leafs more?
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Marchand on the Leafs…. Are you trying to make me hate the Leafs more?
~Scabeh
You definitely would. What them go full bastard and sign Cousins, too. Just throw their hat in the “Someone’s always gonna be suspended!” ring.
But I look at Edmonton and I think it’s been guys like Keith and Perry who showed the team what it really took to win. Guys who have been there and done it before lead the way. The Leafs need that from someone – or someones. In their past they’ve had Hainsey and I guess Muzzin who were sort of their guys who’d been there and could lead that way. The other guys they had to lead them – Thornton, Marleau, Spezza, Simmonds, Foligno – they’d all won nothing. I suppose they had O’Reilly as well, but I never got the feeling they put him a leadership role as much as they should have.
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I’ve said this recently, and I believe it – I don’t think you replace Marner.
~monkeypunkThis is exactly it. The Leafs have too many $10M+ guys that all do pretty much the same thing. Some score more, some assist more, but none of them compete particularly hard. We’ve already committed to Willy and Matty, so you’re pretty much stuck with them unless you want to get fleeced in a deal, assuming they waive. (But if you keep asking players to waive, what players are going to want to sign here?).
Mitch is a hell of a player, but his game simply doesn’t translate in the playoffs. Basically, we’re sacrificing Mitch for some gritty grinders that are going to get the puck out of our zone, and keep it in their zone. We’re sacrificing fancy goals, for gritty goals. You simply don’t see a lot of fancy goals in the playoffs, the vast majority are scrambles in front, tips on point shots, or deflections off someone’s taint.
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Marner Boeser Ehlers JT Duchene Nelson
Bennett Giroux Marchand Palmieri Drouin
Suter Granlund Benn Kuzmenko Smith Donato Roslovic Mangiapane Gourde Kane Frederic Jeannot Kuraly Armia Brown Raddysh Beauvillier Saad Skinner Cousins Bjugstad Gaudette Tanev Eller KuninLots of good options
Pack your ???? #16
-Mr. Sirhe just re-signed with NYI on a 2 yr deal.
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I’ve just decided to not go back there. Let it wither and die. Stupidity killed it and there’s no going back.
I’ve been banned for many things on the hockey buzz and the facetube over the decades????♂️
This last ban from my hb fam was just for posting my iconic phrase which got hb the traffic on the main page and keep them going:
FIRST
any habs rumours!?!
nuff said
having said all of this, I’m here on a reverse bridge deal; meaning I’m not a little bitch so i don’t get butthurt about bans and insults on the interwebs because I’m always right????????what a fucking joke????♂️
edit: nice alliteration ????????
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Wrong. This is why you I’ve zero credibility with your page after page of arguing just to argue – You have no clue what you watch. Sure you have a load of opinions but they are never actually smart hockey takes cause you’ve never played and don’t get it. You regurgitate things others post on line.
Tue actual play you spoke about from Mitchy… The Panthers dman made a poor pass to his partner (puck was a tick ahead and rolled off toe – puck went off boards right to Marner who turned with it and shoveled a 2ft pass (through nobody or anything…like any player can do). Matthews went in and scored.
Marner ‘stole’ the puck and made a ‘great’ pass. More uneducated (hockey wise) bullshit from this clown. -BigIQof23
Congrats, you played junior C hockey and all you got for your trouble was CTE.
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Marner Boeser Ehlers JT Duchene Nelson
Bennett Giroux Marchand Palmieri Drouin
Suter Granlund Benn Kuzmenko Smith Donato Roslovic Mangiapane Gourde Kane Frederic Jeannot Kuraly Armia Brown Raddysh Beauvillier Saad Skinner Cousins Bjugstad Gaudette Tanev Eller KuninLots of good options
Pack your ???? #16There’s actually a long list of horrible options. Marner is by far the best of all the options and if your goal is to win a Cup, they must resign Marner.
Let’s go one by one through what would be top-six forwards and give you the reasons why the majority on this list are either garbage, not better or won’t sign with the Leafs.
For starters, Boeser is horrid. -25 player who deserves his -25. He was a 50 point player last year, only made the playoffs twice in his career. This guy is like a less athletic, Value Village Kessel.
Ehlers, not leaving Winnipeg, soft as baby shit, not a playoff performer, not a 100 point, Selke nominee, PKer. Most of his playoff runs ended with 0 goals. This guy is Value Village Nylander.
Tavares. Is. Garbage. 7 years of his prime, he can’t skate, he can’t defend and he didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games against the Panthers. This guy was the definition of bad DNA. Show him the door.
Duchene. Value Village Tavares. Horrid defensively, can’t score 5v5. Basically a PP weapon who can’t play in any other situation. Cheap but ineffective.
Nelson, very good size, good player but probably not leaving Colorado, has no reason to play in Toronto (from Minnesota) unless you massively overpay him. And he’s 33. Not going to be a “prime years” contract. Usually a 50 point player most of his career. 0 playoff goals in 7 games for Colorado this year. ZERO.
Bennett and Marchand are not leaving better weather, better taxes, better team, proven winner and less pressure to deal with the BS that is Toronto. They’d both be complete idiots to sign with the Leafs. Also, didn’t Leafs fans hate them 10 minutes ago? You really want to overpay these guys into their mid to late 30s after they got that much mileage? That’s like buying a Mercedes at a used car lot with 200K KM on it. Looks great, sounds great but get ready to pay the double what it’s worth just for an oil change.
Giroux, not leaving Ottawa, hasn’t been a 100 point player in 7 years. Basically another 50 point guy on the wrong side of 37. Hasn’t been a playoff performer since 2012.
Palmieri, off the market. Also, 34 anyway…
Drouin has 1 playoff goal in his last 20 playoff games and he had the benefit of playing with MacKinnon. If he knows what’s good for him, he’ll stay in Colorado and continue being a passenger over there.
Suter, is better than Malgin, I’ll give him that but still, 2 playoff goals in 13 career playoff games? Don’t see this guy moving the needle that much
Granlund, good player but 32, why would he leave all his Finnish buddies in Dallas after going so deep this year?
Benn is washed, from BC, no reason to come to the Leafs. Probably just stays in Dallas for 1 year, 1 million dollar deals.
Kuzmenko, one year wonder, completely unreliable.
Donato, from Boston, why would he don’t see why he wouldn’t go back to Chicago / Boston unless you overpaid him. 0 playoff goals in 19 playoff games.
Roslovic, from Ohio, don’t see why he’d leave Carolina or come to Toronto unless you overpaid him. 3 career playoff goals in 45 games. Already have enough Jarnkroks and Kampfs. Don’t need another.
Mangiapane, 5’10”, 14 goals, 28 points. This guy can’t replace Marner except if it’s in a police line-up for the height and weight. If he takes a super cheap contract, he’s worth a shot but probably not a legit top-six threat in the playoffs as his career playoff numbers are unimpressive. 7 playoff goals, 14 points in 37 games.
The only two top-six forwards you listed that make sense are Smith and Kane. And you don’t need to lose Marner to get them.
Smith is a two-way, Cup winner, solid LW who can score some goals in the playoffs. But he’s not a 100 point player. You replace Tavares with Smith, not Marner.
Same goes for Kane at 36-37 years old. 10 years ago, he could replace Marner, but he’s a one-way, injury prone player now. He hasn’t had a good playoff run since 2015. Literally a decade ago since he had a playoff run with more than just 1 or 2 goals. That’s a complimentary player, not a guy who you can expect to replace a 100 point, two-way player 27-35, much less win a Cup with. You sign Kane the same way the Oilers signed Perry; 1 million dollar, 1 year deal to occasionally play on the top line and on the PP. You add Perry to the mix, you don’t replace Draisaitl with him.
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Why did you stop there?
All the bottom 6 guys:
Frederic Gourde Armia Bjugstad Tanev
Jeannot Kuraly Eller Kunin +Just roll with…
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares(5m) NylanderThen…
Laughton stays
Robertson and Holmberg RFA ?
Jarnkrok ?
Trade Kant
Let Lorentz take league minimum 13 FWBjugstad as 4C
Tanev, Frederic, Armia, Jeannot, Kunin- any 2I am ok with signing Kane to a 1 year deal, in order to have money available for 2026 UFA crop
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Why did you stop there?
All the bottom 6 guys:
Frederic Gourde Armia Bjugstad Tanev
Jeannot Kuraly Eller Kunin +Just roll with…
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares(5m) NylanderThen…
Laughton stays
Robertson and Holmberg RFA ?
Jarnkrok ?
Trade Kant
Let Lorentz take league minimum 13 FWBjugstad as 4C
Tanev, Frederic, Armia, Jeannot, Kunin- any 2I am ok with signing Kane to a 1 year deal, in order to have money available for 2026 UFA crop -sir
Because signing a bunch of 4th liners is irrelevant with that piss poor top-six. That team barely makes the playoffs and loses in the 1st round.
Saving money for a 2026 UFA miracle is a long shot. Overpaying for UFAs (Tavares) backfired once before. Doing it again would be silly.
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Totally off subject. Just got done doing a fresh install of a new linux operating system (distro). Went smoother than I expected. Switched over from Ubuntu to BunsenLabs. The speed is stunning after years of using heavier OS’es like Windows and Ubuntu. Start up and shut down is instant. No lag for anything. Applications open and close instantly.
No forced updates. No AI or other cloud shit forced on me. No telemetry, tracking, or spying. It’s bliss.
Unless your work forces you to, or you are a l33t-gamer, there’s no reason to stay on Windoze.
This has been a public service FOSS testimonial, we now return you to Leafs hockey talk.
Fuck the Panthers.
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Why did you stop there?
All the bottom 6 guys:
Frederic Gourde Armia Bjugstad Tanev
Jeannot Kuraly Eller Kunin +Just roll with…
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares(5m) NylanderThen…
Laughton stays
Robertson and Holmberg RFA ?
Jarnkrok ?
Trade Kant
Let Lorentz take league minimum 13 FWBjugstad as 4C
Tanev, Frederic, Armia, Jeannot, Kunin- any 2I am ok with signing Kane to a 1 year deal, in order to have money available for 2026 UFA crop
-Mr.SirI did like the trade proposal I saw the other day.
Karlson for Kampf + 2025 2nd rnd pick (FLA) + 3rd rnd pick either 2025 (COL) or 2026 (Leafs).
This would mean Marner is gone.
I’d like the to go after Tanev but he will cost at least 3~4M on a 4 year deal.
kinda expensive for a bottom 6 player.
I’d definitely would bring back Lorentz. 2yrs @ 900K per-
I did like the trade proposal I saw the other day.
Karlson for Kampf + 2025 2nd rnd pick (FLA) + 3rd rnd pick either 2025 (COL) or 2026 (Leafs).
This would mean Marner is gone.
I’d like the to go after Tanev but he will cost at least 3~4M on a 4 year deal.
kinda expensive for a bottom 6 player.
I’d definitely would bring back Lorentz. 2yrs @ 900K per
~dmntedI am of the opinion that Tanev is a $2m / year guy. 6 years ago, Rutherford got a hard-on for a 14 goal guy who played 14 minutes / night and overpaid him @ $3.5m. He’s a phenomenal worker and he’s tenacious and he’s exactly what any bottom-6 would want – but he had 10 goals and 12 assists in a full season and turns 34 at the end of this year. You’re buying his twilight years and those should be discounted, I would imagine.
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Totally off subject. Just got done doing a fresh install of a new linux operating system (distro). Went smoother than I expected. Switched over from Ubuntu to BunsenLabs. The speed is stunning after years of using heavier OS’es like Windows and Ubuntu. Start up and shut down is instant. No lag for anything. Applications open and close instantly.~ PDO
I am linux person, running linux desktop for over than 20 years, currently on 2 Desktops with Archlinux on both.
I like idea of minimal installation, some tiling windows manager and only apps I am using, nothing else.
It is easier for me probably as I am not a gamer.
And yes, go Oilers. -
The only way out is Marner resigned under $13M, Nylander traded. Rielly moved. That way the assets stay in line and the return for Nylander and Rielly are other NHL players and picks. Another top 4 RHD so OEL can play his natural Left side. Tavares to the 3rd line on the cheap and another centre with tenacity on line 2. Toews on PTO?. McMann and Robertson need a new home. Bye to Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves & Holmberg. We have 5 good Defensemen and 2 Good Goaltenders. A very good top line. Work it out and remake this roster with grit and hustle.
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The only way out is Marner resigned under $13M, Nylander traded. Rielly moved. That way the assets stay in line and the return for Nylander and Rielly are other NHL players and picks. Another top 4 RHD so OEL can play his natural Left side. Tavares to the 3rd line on the cheap and another centre with tenacity on line 2. Toews on PTO?. McMann and Robertson need a new home. Bye to Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves & Holmberg. We have 5 good Defensemen and 2 Good Goaltenders. A very good top line. Work it out and remake this roster with grit and hustle.~ PrinceHL
This is ideal scenario. I am definitely prefer to have Marner over Nylander, but since they have no assets for trades, they need money, as match as possible,
to bring decent pieces to fill the holes in the roster. -
The only way out is Marner resigned under $13M, Nylander traded. Rielly moved. That way the assets stay in line and the return for Nylander and Rielly are other NHL players and picks. Another top 4 RHD so OEL can play his natural Left side. Tavares to the 3rd line on the cheap and another centre with tenacity on line 2. Toews on PTO?. McMann and Robertson need a new home. Bye to Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves & Holmberg. We have 5 good Defensemen and 2 Good Goaltenders. A very good top line. Work it out and remake this roster with grit and hustle.~ PrinceHL
Marner is gone
Nylander has a NMC and is not going anywhere
Rielly is going nowhere(according to Lebrun I think)
McMann – If you get rid of him you will be looking for more goals from teh bottom 6.. He is fine on the 3rd line netting 20-25 goal
Robertson – Good luck on your travels
Jarncock – Don’t let the door hit you
Kampf- Don’t let the door hit you
Reaves- Don’t let the door hit you
Holmberg- I would let him stick around.. If can be a 4th line center/winger.. Cheap replacement for Kampf
Lorentz – I am good to have him back on a cheap contractLeafs need to assess the farm and figure out which guys are not in the long term plans and use the assets before they lose value..Niemela, Kokeonen, Kressler, Tverberg come to mind, they are not grade A prospects but they are on the smaller size and don’t fit the Leafs direction. I would also entertain a trade of Cowan if the package coming back is exceptional.
Package them with some of the under contract veterans to bring in pieces
I think the Leafs D will look exactly the same as last year with Myers as the 7th guy.
If Marner helps them out and demands a sign and trade from the team he signs with we can maybe hope for a good forward prospect..
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The only way out is Marner resigned under $13M, Nylander traded. Rielly moved. That way the assets stay in line and the return for Nylander and Rielly are other NHL players and picks. Another top 4 RHD so OEL can play his natural Left side. Tavares to the 3rd line on the cheap and another centre with tenacity on line 2. Toews on PTO?. McMann and Robertson need a new home. Bye to Jarnkrok, Kampf, Reaves & Holmberg. We have 5 good Defensemen and 2 Good Goaltenders. A very good top line. Work it out and remake this roster with grit and hustle. -Prince
Just like anything else, it’s not the “only” way out to trade Nylander. Yes, they’re better off keeping Marner but that doesn’t mean it comes at the cost of Nylander.
Tavares is garbage on any line. His offense does not help you win more playoff games than his defense loses. He can not play a 3rd line, which should be designed to shutdown the opponents.
This is ideal scenario. I am definitely prefer to have Marner over Nylander, but since they have no assets for trades, they need money, as match as possible,
to bring decent pieces to fill the holes in the roster. -alex.TMLI wouldn’t call that the ideal scenario. The Leafs currently have 3 elite offensive weapons that are usually among the league leaders in goals, assists and points. They need to keep those 3 players.
What they need is to give those players more help at the cost of getting rid of the older, shittier players who don’t help enough.
That means Tavares, Rielly, Kampf, Jarnkrok, McMann, Robertson…these are the players that need to go away.
The players that need to come in should be complimentary. Knies, compliments Matthews and Marner well. That line was equal to the Barkov line. We did not lose because of Marner, Matthews and Knies. In fact, those 3 guys scored the GWGs in the 3 games they won against the Panthers. If the goal is to beat the Panthers, why the fuck would anybody even dream of getting rid of the guys who were directly responsible for winning those games? It’s a fools logic to blame a player for not winning even more games than they did when there are 10 other guys who contributed nothing at all.
Nylander’s line, however, sucked. Nylander can’t play defense. At all. But neither can Tavares or McMann. This is where you keep the guy with 45 goals and give him a two-way 2nd line center and a hardnosed LW to balance out Nylander’s weaknesses. In that scenario, you win the match-ups instead of hoping you win the offensive battle of a 6-5 game.
When the Leafs first signed Tavares, it made the most sense to trade Nylander. 7 years later, it now makes more sense to get rid of Tavares. It’s just the nature of how players age. The Leafs can afford to have one defensively irresponsible player like Nylander but they can’t afford to have another in Tavares too, no matter how “discounted” he may seem.
Same goes for Rielly. The Leafs need a situationally offensive D, especially for the PP. But they can’t have Rielly at 7.5, who doesn’t play the PP at all and is a nightmare defensively. Would rather have two guys at 4 AAV each, one LHD and one RHD. One for the PP and the other for the PK.
Knies | Matthews | Marner
R. Smith | Jenner | Nylander
Domi | McBain | B. Tanev
Laughton | Blueger | Lorentz
Comtois (or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Dumoulin | Carlo
Burns (if he doesn’t retire, maybe a 1 year deal if he’s a hometown guy because he’s from Barrie)Woll | Stolarz
That’s the more ideal scenario.
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Forget Burns, go for Aaron Ekblad. Weaken your divisional opponent and upgrade at RD. Rielly is the fly in the butter dish. He really needs to be gone.
I think pretty much everybody agrees, Rielly has to go. I’d be fine with Tyler Myers and Teddy Blueger from Vancouver for Rielly. I think it makes sense for both sides. Would also accept Oleksiak + either John Hayden or Tye Kartye from Seattle.
Ekblad scored 3 goals and 33 points. Burns had 6 goals and 29 points.
A) Ekblad would be stupid to leave the Panthers. Bennett, Ekblad, Marchand; they’d stay exactly where they are and run it back over and over again until it doesn’t work anymore if they knew what was good for them. Why wouldn’t they? The only reason they wouldn’t is to be grossly overpaid. And that’s what it would take to get any one of them to join the Leafs. And what can the Leafs absolutely not afford to do? Overpay guys enough to make them jump ship…like the mistake we made with Tavares…and it didn’t work when we did it with previous UFAs who were 30+ either.
B) Burns could potentially give the Leafs a depth bargain being able to play as a RHD and as a RW if required. He’s 40, he’s from Barrie and never won a Cup. Maybe he does the old “last stop in Toronto before I retire” tour. In terms of value, I’d take that over signing a guy to a 7 year, 9-10 million dollar deal who has a long history of concussions.
I’d even take Burns for as high as 2-3 million if it meant he plays the PP and if you traded Rielly to Seattle for Oleksiak who is a LHD. So, alternatively, you could have…
OEL / Tanev
Oleksiak / Burns
McCabe / Carlo
BenoitThat’s 3 pairs of LD/RD that could each easily play 20 minutes each. Evenly share the load situationally. Would be a dream come true for Berube defensively.
C) I’m fully aware Burns could easily get one last, bigger money deal somewhere else. But if he’s one of those guys who grew up wanting to play for the Leafs, this is an excellent opportunity to get a “Corey Perry” type bargain with way less risk involved. If you overpay Ekblad for 3 goals and 33 points, imagine how that contract looks in the future. We’d have another Rielly situation all over again.
I don’t see the cap value in overpaying long term to sign Ekblad at soon to be 30-37, even if he did want to leave a proven winner, fantastic weather, lower taxes and zero pressure.
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The entire hockey world says Marner is walking, for free.
Organizational failure of epic proportions. Management disaster.
Tree is part of that. Yes he only had a few weeks to make a tough decision on the core. But he ultimately walked the team to where they are now. No one has ever had the stones to make a tough decision in this era. Now? Best of luck to Tree and the management. They’re going to need it. I’m not super optimistic Tree can make chicken salad out of this. He got completely schooled at the deadline. Look at what Florida did, and what he did. His record does not give me a ton of be-leaf.
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The entire hockey world says Marner is walking, for free.
Organizational failure of epic proportions. Management disaster.
Tree is part of that. Yes he only had a few weeks to make a tough decision on the core. But he ultimately walked the team to where they are now. No one has ever had the stones to make a tough decision in this era. Now? Best of luck to Tree and the management. They’re going to need it. I’m not super optimistic Tree can make chicken salad out of this. He got completely schooled at the deadline. Look at what Florida did, and what he did. His record does not give me a ton of be-leaf.
Tre gets a pass for me.. Two weeks on the job and likely a mandate from Shanny when he was hired that he could not trade the core.. I think that is part of the reason Dufus was gone.. Dufus finally realized what a colossal mess he made and wanted to fix it by trading Marner.
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There seems to be a consensus that Morgan Rielly is the DNA that needs to be moved. Treliving needs to look at a West Coast team, cut a deal, then present the trade proposal to Rielly to drop his no movement clause. Vancouver seems logical, since it’s home and he might consider it. Maybe a second rounder coming back and the rights to Brock Boeser. Leafs can offer an 8 year for Boeser if he chooses to sign here.
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LeBrun reported that Rielly is not waiving his no trade. These guys like LeBrun just don’t say stuff for $hits and giggles. They do have reputations.
We shouldn’t care about anything that the talking heads have to say. They’re part of the reason that this team can’t succeed. Treliving needs to just tell them to pound salt and do what he knows needs doing. The Leafs cannot win with Morgan Rielly. Hence, he must be moved. If he won’t go, then he can sit out the whole year or buy a new condo on Robidas Island. Ever since he got hooked up with his now wife, the figure skater, he’s now domesticated. Same goes for Marner. He’s a family man now and the team doesn’t come first. It’s why both need to be moved.
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The entire hockey world says Marner is walking, for free.
Organizational failure of epic proportions. Management disaster.
Tree is part of that. Yes he only had a few weeks to make a tough decision on the core. But he ultimately walked the team to where they are now. No one has ever had the stones to make a tough decision in this era. Now? Best of luck to Tree and the management. They’re going to need it. I’m not super optimistic Tree can make chicken salad out of this. He got completely schooled at the deadline. Look at what Florida did, and what he did. His record does not give me a ton of be-leaf. -fifty
“The stones to make the tough decision” is currently to keep Marner, let Tavares walk and get Rielly to waive his NMC.
There is no way this team is better next year by losing a 100 point player and keeping the defensive garbage that is Tavares and Rielly. Whatever the Toronto screaming mob is saying, doing the complete opposite is usually the best course of action.
There seems to be a consensus that Morgan Rielly is the DNA that needs to be moved. Treliving needs to look at a West Coast team, cut a deal, then present the trade proposal to Rielly to drop his no movement clause. Vancouver seems logical, since it’s home and he might consider it. Maybe a second rounder coming back and the rights to Brock Boeser. Leafs can offer an 8 year for Boeser if he chooses to sign here. -Prince
Why the fuck would you ever want to sign Boeser to an 8 year deal when he was a 50 point, -25 player last year? A 1 year deal. Okay. Try it out. 8 years for that garbage? The fuck are you thinking? You would literally be trading Rielly’s contract to immediately replace it with another terrible contract. Just a bad, bad idea.
LeBrun reported that Rielly is not waiving his no trade. These guys like LeBrun just don’t say stuff for $hits and giggles. They do have reputations. -fifty
LeBrun is irrelevant. Every player that has been given a NMC and waived it disagrees. If management tells him, they do not want him anymore, he will come up with a short list of teams he prefers. Even if it’s only 2 or 3 teams, it’s still more than 0. Rielly won’t waive for any team, but he will waive for a few specific teams. And they need to get him to waive it as soon as possible. He should be gone before the draft.
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fifty mission cap
Participant
The entire hockey world says Marner is walking, for free.Organizational failure of epic proportions. Management disaster.
Tree is part of that. Yes he only had a few weeks to make a tough decision on the core. But he ultimately walked the team to where they are now. No one has ever had the stones to make a tough decision in this era. Now? Best of luck to Tree and the management. They’re going to need it. I’m not super optimistic Tree can make chicken salad out of this. He got completely schooled at the deadline. Look at what Florida did, and what he did. His record does not give me a ton of be-leaf.
According to the media, Tre had been shopping Marner since last off season, no one wanted him without an extension…marner wasnt gonna sign one.
I agree Tre isnt that great at making trades, his past deadline moves were huge overpayments…mainly the laughton one.-
According to the media, Tre had been shopping Marner since last off season, no one wanted him without an extension…marner wasnt gonna sign one.
I agree Tre isnt that great at making trades, his past deadline moves were huge overpayments…mainly the laughton one.Thing is, trying to trade Marner only after his no-trade clause kicked in was a waste of time. I don’t blame Tre for it, it’s all on Shanahan, but once he was stuck with him, I guess he did overpay on the short term trades to make sure he’d have one last chance at winning with the “core 4”.
I did like the Carlo trade though, that’s a useful player moving forward regardless of the cost.
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Thing is, trying to trade Marner only after his no-trade clause kicked in was a waste of time. I don’t blame Tre for it, it’s all on Shanahan, but once he was stuck with him, I guess he did overpay on the short term trades to make sure he’d have one last chance at winning with the “core 4”.
I did like the Carlo trade though, that’s a useful player moving forward regardless of the cost.
~ScabehI didn’t really mind either one, to be honest. They got 50% retention on Laughton, got him for two years and they gave up a late 1st – which I know does have value. You get, typically, about a 60% hit rate on late first round picks. There’s a 20% and 15% hit rate on 4th and 6th round picks. Granted the quality of the player and their ceilings are typically quite different. The best 6th round pick in recent memory was Connor Brown. Holmberg was down in that 6th/7th round area, too – but if contrast that with Easton Cowan, taken 27th, you’re getting a very different calibre of player.
Frankly I didn’t think – and still don’t think – that Laughton was a problem in the playoffs. Saddling him and Lorentz with Jarnkrok, who was bloody awful, was a problem. Taking your less talented players and handicapping them sure isn’t going to help. That said, and being honest, if you’re paying a 1st rounder, you want a guy who is contributing more than Laughton did. Hopefully the second year at $1.5m makes that payment worth it. Frankly, given how badly he struggled, you wonder if putting McMann down on the 4th line with Laughton and Lorentz wouldn’t have created a better cycle and potentially generated some offense. Lord knows McMann wasn’t doing anything anywhere else.
The Carlo trade, similar to you, I like. You get him for 2 more years, he’s retained to a shade under $3.5m and you’re giving up a pretty solid prospect in Minten, a 1st and a 4th. It seems like fair value.
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No 1st round picks until 2028
Outside of Cowan, no real high prospects (maybe danforth?)
The player who leads in point most year in reg season, but doesnt show up when it counts in games 5-7 is probably walking for free.
Captain is pretty soft, often injured during the playoffs and doesnt seem to hate to lose.
A bunch of ok FA’s who are gonna want to be overpaid this offseason.Leafs look………………….like the leafs.
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No 1st round picks until 2028
Outside of Cowan, no real high prospects (maybe danforth?)
The player who leads in point most year in reg season, but doesnt show up when it counts in games 5-7 is probably walking for free.
Captain is pretty soft, often injured during the playoffs and doesnt seem to hate to lose.
A bunch of ok FA’s who are gonna want to be overpaid this offseason.Leafs look………………….like the leafs.
~FakepartofmeYet they took the reigning Cup champs to game 7. They laid an egg, but it’s not like Florida didn’t just dummy Tampa and Carolina taking both out in 5.
By all accounts the team’s top scorer, who most here are adamant absolutely sucks in the playoffs, is leaving – and sure it’s for nothing (and the guy responsible has already been shown the door), but what if Matthews played with some grit or tenacity on his line? What if Tavares or Nylander had some toughness or battle on their line? Options will present themselves here and if Treliving wants to make the team different, this is the chance to do just that.
A 1st round pick today isn’t likely to make an impact on this roster until 2029. Knies did in 3 years, but he really is an exception.
I don’t like losing Marner for nothing, but this is the cost of going for it. I’d rather they pushed their chips in rather than sit on the sidelines and collect prospects.
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Right now, the only way is to copy/paste the quote and use “B-Quote” on it.
We’re still at the early stages of this website so I’m sure it’ll improve sooner than later.
Also, just a PSA about WordPress and plugins: make sure you are regularly updating it, plugins especially. WP Security, WordFence, etc. are good add-ons, as is CloudFlare for botnet protection.
Have you looked at this? Been around for a long time.
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Also, just a PSA about WordPress and plugins: make sure you are regularly updating it, plugins especially. WP Security, WordFence, etc. are good add-ons, as is CloudFlare for botnet protection.
Have you looked at this? Been around for a long time.
I have no idea what that is and I’m very unfamiliar with WordPress but if you have suggestions to improve the site, there’s a thread in the “locker room” section where you can share it.
I’m not involved in how the site works (which is a good thing), I only contribute as a poster/blogger 🙂
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We’re just gonna have to learn to live with Rielly, warts and all. He has all the control if he refuses to waive. Given that, I’d change his deployment and make him an overpaid 2nd pairing or 3rd pairing guy. I know this will sound counter-intuitive, but maybe try him at killing penalties in camp/preseason. If he’s a “puck mover” who isn’t adding value to the power play, then maybe see if he can move the puck out of the zone on the PK where he’s not expected to join a rush or carry the puck.
Whatever the case, the Rielly situation needs to change and it’s a pipe dream to hope he gets traded. He won’t waive. Nobody wants him. You’d have to retain and practically give him away even if he agreed to waive. It would basically be a salary dump. Not gonna happen, so change his deployment.
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That said, and being honest, if you’re paying a 1st rounder, you want a guy who is contributing more than Laughton did. Hopefully the second year at $1.5m makes that payment worth it.
– PunksieLaughton didn’t do a single thing that every other 4th line guy couldn’t do. You can pick those guys up for $2M – $3M on July 16th. It was a terrible overpay.
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Laughton didn’t do a single thing that every other 4th line guy couldn’t do. You can pick those guys up for $2M – $3M on July 16th. It was a terrible overpay.
~Wedgie
I’m not judging the trade until this upcoming season is done. Laughton has long been touted as a leader who leads by example and off the ice. Tortorella has nothing but good things to say about him, and he’s not typically the complimenting type. Whether he never found his footing here or his role or his linemates, I don’t know – but I’d like to give him another year before that 1st rounder is considered a waste of a pick. At this point if we’re spending draft picks, I like the idea of paying to acquire term and retention.
For two months of O’Reilly and Acciari they gave up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Gaudette and Abramov; for eleven games of Foligno they gave up a 1st and 2 4ths.
I’m not saying that makes the Laughton look any better right now – a bad trade is a bad trade, even if there are worse ones – but I am saying that Laughton still has time here to make that trade worthwhile.
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I’m not judging the trade until this upcoming season is done. Laughton has long been touted as a leader who leads by example and off the ice. Tortorella has nothing but good things to say about him, and he’s not typically the complimenting type. Whether he never found his footing here or his role or his linemates, I don’t know – but I’d like to give him another year before that 1st rounder is considered a waste of a pick. At this point if we’re spending draft picks, I like the idea of paying to acquire term and retention.
For two months of O’Reilly and Acciari they gave up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Gaudette and Abramov; for eleven games of Foligno they gave up a 1st and 2 4ths.
I’m not saying that makes the Laughton look any better right now – a bad trade is a bad trade, even if there are worse ones – but I am saying that Laughton still has time here to make that trade worthwhile.
This is exactly what happens when you don’t have a balanced team and are spending a huge chunk of your cap on a 4 players: you have to overpay for complimentary players, in the hopes that you can inject some scoring into the bottom half of your lineup because your expensive guys can’t elevate their game in the playoffs.
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For two months of O’Reilly and Acciari they gave up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, Gaudette and Abramov; for eleven games of Foligno they gave up a 1st and 2 4ths.
I’m not saying that makes the Laughton look any better right now – a bad trade is a bad trade, even if there are worse ones – but I am saying that Laughton still has time here to make that trade worthwhile. – MonkeyPuck
Hard not to agree with you on giving Laughton more time and also hard not to cringe looking back at what was given up for the pure rentals in O’Reilly and Acciari and Foligno.
At least Tre got term on his trades where we moved his 1st round pick.
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For the most part, I think Tre has done quite well considering what was left after Dubas’ departure. He’s completely retooled the back end, and the tendies are looking nice! Now he’s got a little bit of breathing room to play with the forwards with Shanny gone and likely having more leash.
The Carlo trade was a beauty, I can see how the Laughton trade has an odor to it, but he’s still got another year to turn it around.
Can we please stop talking about trading Rielly?!?! Mark my words, he will play out 100% of his contract in a Leaf uniform. He’s a terrible player, makes WAY too much money for what he brings, and has full trade protection. “He needs a change of scenery, someone will take a chance on him.” Bullshit! Nobody is touching that guy unless the Leafs retain 50% and throw in a sweetener or take a crap contract back.
Please, God, Tre, prove me wrong.
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Laughton is a pylon. And the Leafs paid for the career high of 18 goals, 43 points price for him.
Rielly can and will be traded if the Leafs management actually put their mind to it.
Rielly not being traded isn’t because he can’t be moved, it’s because the Leafs have decided they believe he’s worth keeping.
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For the most part, I think Tre has done quite well considering what was left after Dubas’ departure. He’s completely retooled the back end, and the tendies are looking nice! Now he’s got a little bit of breathing room to play with the forwards with Shanny gone and likely having more leash.
The Carlo trade was a beauty, I can see how the Laughton trade has an odor to it, but he’s still got another year to turn it around.
Can we please stop talking about trading Rielly?!?! Mark my words, he will play out 100% of his contract in a Leaf uniform. He’s a terrible player, makes WAY too much money for what he brings, and has full trade protection. “He needs a change of scenery, someone will take a chance on him.” Bullshit! Nobody is touching that guy unless the Leafs retain 50% and throw in a sweetener or take a crap contract back.
Please, God, Tre, prove me wrong. – Whipper
Agreed on Tre re-tooling the back end nicely and the situation between the pipes being good to great currently (despite the HB blog from Ek noting Toronto as a team who is interested in Demko if Van retains. Why would the Leafs have any interest in that? The only way would be a bigger deal where goalies are included IMO).
BIG TIME AGREE on Rielly. I’m almost as tired of reading about how Rielly would agree to be moved just because it’s closer to where he is from as I am of reading how terrible JT is and that he shouldn’t be brought back regardless. Pretending like JT isn’t a legit decent option at 2C on many team or can’t be shifted to the wing is insane. The guy wants to stay, can produce, is a monster still in the faceoff dot and will take a haircut – why the fuck wouldn’t you bring him back?
JT and Rielly aren’t why this team can’t get it done.
Look harder at the players who will be paid top dollars next year and were this year if you want to know why – AM, WN and MM specifically.
Blaming the 2nd pairing D man who is for sure overpaid or the 2nd line C who was also overpaid this year as the why vs the guys making 13.25, 11 and 10.9 each (the last one who will want what 13, 14M to stay?) and are supposed to be in their prime and to major firepower up front who collectively shit the bed in games 4,5 and 7 (and even then needed the goalie to pitch a shut out in game 6 and only were responsible for 1 of the 2 goals) is insanely stupid.
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Gourde
6yrs/14m – SirsieI’m actually OK with this, despite the batshit term. The caphit is only $2.3m, which is very fair for a quality bottom six center.
Having said that, it’s all but certain that the last couple years of that contract will be on Robidas Island. The Lightning are very good at gaming at the LTIR system, as we all know.
Leafs need a bottom six center like Gourde and he’s off the board now.
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This is exactly what happens when you don’t have a balanced team and are spending a huge chunk of your cap on a 4 players: you have to overpay for complimentary players, in the hopes that you can inject some scoring into the bottom half of your lineup because your expensive guys can’t elevate their game in the playoffs.
Incorrect.
This is exactly what happens when the only impact players the franchise is capable of drafting is lottery picks.
If this Leafs team was constructed by Jim Nill, it would have all the superstar players along with drafted, developed depth players.
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Incorrect.
This is exactly what happens when the only impact players the franchise is capable of drafting is lottery picks.
If this Leafs team was constructed by Jim Nill, it would have all the superstar players along with drafted, developed depth players.
~Unholy_GoalieNoting that Jim Nill has been the GM of Dallas for 12 years and they have not only won nothing, they have missed the playoffs in 4 of those years. I like Dallas – I think they are an excellent hockey team.
I also like the teams and style of Tampa, Carolina and Winnipeg – and just like the Leafs, none are playing.
Typically Nill has held onto his picks and he’s drafted well – although his second round picks have worked out better than a lot of his first round picks; you have Robertson, Hintz and I guess Stankoven (I’m not a huge fan of his, but he was used in the Rantanen acquisition, so hard to argue he had value) – but then you had higher picks like Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Dellandrea and so on that really – for where they were picked – should have hit.
Maybe if he’d landed on those Dallas would’ve won a cup by now, instead of being curb stomped by Edmonton in 5.
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Incorrect.
This is exactly what happens when the only impact players the franchise is capable of drafting is lottery picks.
If this Leafs team was constructed by Jim Nill, it would have all the superstar players along with drafted, developed depth players.
Any homegrown talent we’ve run out of town, so I don’t know what to tell you.
But putting all your eggs in one basket and that basket falling off the counter and shattering in a pile of goop and shell fragments — which can describe our Core 4 playoff performance for like 8 years — is never going to work.
Bye-bye Marndawg, hello weaponized cap space. Bennett, Marchand, let’s go.
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yes he is cause you like to pylon poop on him and others Leafs players and is cheaper than Kampf. ???????????????? -dmnted
Every single season there are dozens of 4th liners available. Most of them, cost peanuts. The Leafs refuse to sign these players when they are at their cheapest and dive dick first into overpaying for them at the deadline.
And they do it, every, single, year. To the point where they effectively have traded every single 1st round pick for 10 years. A decade. Gone, in trades.
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Boy, are you in for more disappointment than AA
i don’t know about that one????
i would imagine that aa would switch team allegiance if and when greedy pencil neck gets a change of scenery ????????♂️
i don’t know much about Lewikie but I’ve heard he’s a take no excuses winner so i’m excited to see who he and mlse bring in as president because i know he has full autonomy ????
can’t wait to see what kind of bargains that treedying can find for the d corps n bottom 6 this summer????????
really(?) finally seems to be establishing himself as a number 1 d so, pretty much we should plan a cup parade in banff????
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Noting that Jim Nill has been the GM of Dallas for 12 years and they have not only won nothing, they have missed the playoffs in 4 of those years. I like Dallas – I think they are an excellent hockey team.
They also haven’t ever drafted 1st overall. Highest pick (and only in the top 10 in the past 12 years) was Miro Heiskanen.
They have gone further than the Leafs, more often than the Leafs. Missing the playoffs and 1st round exists aren’t all that different.
I see that as a work in progress that has Cup winning potential for at least the next 5 years. But, McDavid…
So, I can only imagine how badly destroyed the Leafs would be if McDavid was in the way every single year.
I also like the teams and style of Tampa, Carolina and Winnipeg – and just like the Leafs, none are playing.
Tampa Bay and Carolina do much better at the draft table than the Leafs. Winnipeg, not so much. But it usually shows up on the ice which is why Tampa Bay has won Cups and Carolina goes deep often.
Typically Nill has held onto his picks and he’s drafted well – although his second round picks have worked out better than a lot of his first round picks; you have Robertson, Hintz and I guess Stankoven (I’m not a huge fan of his, but he was used in the Rantanen acquisition, so hard to argue he had value) – but then you had higher picks like Honka, Gurianov, Tufte, Dellandrea and so on that really – for where they were picked – should have hit.
Maybe if he’d landed on those Dallas would’ve won a cup by now, instead of being curb stomped by Edmonton in 5.
I really don’t see any names on the draft years of Honka, Gurianov, Tufte and Dellandrea that would be able to overcome McDavid. Except maybe Pasta in Honka’s year. But even the Leafs would be better off with Pasta than Nylander.
If Nill had Matthews, Marner and Nylander as his base and then added his late 1st / 2nd round picks as depth, the Leafs would be much better off than in the world we currently live in where they throw 1st round picks out for 4th line rentals. I don’t see him making the Tavares mistake either. And he did draft Oettinger (in the 1st round) which is miles ahead of what the Leafs had in net before this past season. Leafs took Liljegren in 2017.
There’s also Wyatt Johnston, 23rd overall. Mavrik Bourque, 30th overall. Thomas Harley, 18th overall. All recent contributors while the Leafs have almost nothing to show for 10 years of 1st round picks.
And when Nill finally does trade a guy like Stankoven and 1st round picks, he lands a mega catch like Rantanen.
We could be looking at something like this instead of what we have…
J. Robertson | Matthews | Marner
Johnston | Hintz | NylanderHarley | Heiskanen
Oettinger
I know who I’d rather have as our GM looking at that alternative…that’s for sure…
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Tampa Bay and Carolina do much better at the draft table than the Leafs. Winnipeg, not so much. But it usually shows up on the ice which is why Tampa Bay has won Cups and Carolina goes deep often.
~UGWith all due respect to the Carolina Hurricanes, and bearing mind that the Leafs failures are evident – but also tell the tale of their path – the Eastern team in the Stanley Cup final has been from the Atlantic Division every year since 2019. The Atlantic is a gauntlet – Boston, then Tampa and now Florida have all been powerhouses. Would Jim Nill have managed the Leafs into surpassing any of them? I don’t know. A lot of the Stars players did not have an answer for both the Oilers speed and their physicality. Wyatt Johnson had an exceptionally awful playoff. Did you know that the -16 he and Duchene both had is the worst playoff +/- since they started tracking it (Paul Reinhart had a -16 to tie this auspicious mark in 1982-83).
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Any homegrown talent we’ve run out of town, so I don’t know what to tell you.
But putting all your eggs in one basket and that basket falling off the counter and shattering in a pile of goop and shell fragments — which can describe our Core 4 playoff performance for like 8 years — is never going to work.
Bye-bye Marndawg, hello weaponized cap space. Bennett, Marchand, let’s go. -gravy
Running the wrong guys out of town is exactly what Leafs fans are well known for. Marner will call Kadri after he wins a Cup on his new team and they’ll laugh about it together.
I just can’t picture Bennett or Marchand signing with the Leafs. Especially Bennett, why would he leave Florida?!? Their window is WIDE open, and they’re set up to be a problem for at least next year as well. -whip
There’s only one thing the Leafs can offer Bennett and Marchand; overpayment. The Leafs did it with Tavares, they may do it again, but it won’t work. That’s pretty much for sure because Bennett and Marchand would be world class morons to leave Florida to Toronto.
Florida will be good until Bob falls apart, which at 37, could start next year. Or soon after.
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I just can’t picture Bennett or Marchand signing with the Leafs. Especially Bennett, why would he leave Florida?!? Their window is WIDE open, and they’re set up to be a problem for at least next year as well.
~WHIPPERFlorida cap space.
Bennett resigns the same contract as Verhaeghe, 7M cap hit for 8 yrs.
Ekblad going want 8.5M cap hit on an 8 year contract.
they got just over 18M in cap space. and those two contracts gobble it up pretty darn quick.
someone on the current Panther roster is not going to be back with the team. -
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Florida always revamps their team, every year. Leafs ended up with Stolarz, OEL and Lorentz from Florida, last year. It’s cap management and they’re good at it. Either Bennett or Marchand won’t be back next year. Probably will let go Ekblad too. Boston went off their cliff this year, and expect Tampa to do the same, next year. Florida may also take a step back to retool. Leafs need to keep moving up the ladder and try to get first in the division again this year. Rielly, Marner, Robertson, Kampf, McMann and Holberg out should get the salary cap fixed and free agents taking their place in the lineup. Reaves on the cruise ship to Robidas Island, to enjoy the sunset of his hockey career.
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With all due respect to the Carolina Hurricanes, and bearing mind that the Leafs failures are evident – but also tell the tale of their path – the Eastern team in the Stanley Cup final has been from the Atlantic Division every year since 2019. The Atlantic is a gauntlet – Boston, then Tampa and now Florida have all been powerhouses. Would Jim Nill have managed the Leafs into surpassing any of them? I don’t know. A lot of the Stars players did not have an answer for both the Oilers speed and their physicality. Wyatt Johnson had an exceptionally awful playoff. Did you know that the -16 he and Duchene both had is the worst playoff +/- since they started tracking it (Paul Reinhart had a -16 to tie this auspicious mark in 1982-83). -Monkeypunk
I definitely could see Nill being able to do a better job in our division than what they’ve done the previous 10 years under various puppets of Shanahan. Even if it was a 5% improvement, that could have been the difference between winning and losing all those Game 7s.
I agree, Johnston was horrid defensively but I’d rather have him as a trading chip than N. Robertson or Jarnkrok, especially if it were able to facilitate being able to bring in high quality reinforcements like Rantanen.
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I agree, Johnston was horrid defensively but I’d rather have him as a trading chip than N. Robertson or Jarnkrok, especially if it were able to facilitate being able to bring in high quality reinforcements like Rantanen.
~UGSure – but Johnston was drafted 23rd – noting that the Leafs since 2021 held the 25th, 25th, 25th, 23rd (traded down) and will have the 25th spot again this year. As we’ve noted, they haven’t done a good job of getting value for their 1st round picks that they’ve traded, but they have seemingly found some value in their later picks – Danford, Cowan, Minten, Hildeby, Grebenkin, Knies – maybe even Akhtyamov all have NHL potential – that’s largely since 2021. Setting aside the tragedy with Amirov, the 2020 draft was disappointing – to have made 12 picks and have none of them turn out (save maybe Akhtyamov) is terrible.
This all being said – the guy we hired to be our new Director of Amateur Scouting, Mark Leach, comes from Dallas.
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the failure of this latest (10 years +\minus) iteration of our beloved laffs begs the question; should treedying tell all of these losers (corpse 4) that they’re no longer wanted and go print money somewhere else and when these entitled little cream puffs invoke their ntcs berubae scratches them every night because they’re proven pussies and dresses a team that wants to win hockey games and doesn’t sit out with hang nails and lace bite and will bang bodies every night and take the drugs to keep them going and at least compete every night?????
if this is not a possibility then i fear that we will never see the cup come back to Toronto in our lifetimes????????♂️
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Sure – but Johnston was drafted 23rd – noting that the Leafs since 2021 held the 25th, 25th, 25th, 23rd (traded down) and will have the 25th spot again this year. As we’ve noted, they haven’t done a good job of getting value for their 1st round picks that they’ve traded, but they have seemingly found some value in their later picks – Danford, Cowan, Minten, Hildeby, Grebenkin, Knies – maybe even Akhtyamov all have NHL potential – that’s largely since 2021. Setting aside the tragedy with Amirov, the 2020 draft was disappointing – to have made 12 picks and have none of them turn out (save maybe Akhtyamov) is terrible.
This all being said – the guy we hired to be our new Director of Amateur Scouting, Mark Leach, comes from Dallas. -monkeypunk
Sorry but I don’t see enough value in the Leafs picks considering how little impact they’ve had on the ice for the Leafs. And I’m looking at the picks made as far back as 2016. Most of them have been traded for rentals, sure, but nothing that has actually created legit depth or helped win playoff games and series.
Maybe I’m missing something but in total I see Knies and Woll for the Leafs…and J. Robertson, Hintz, Harley, Oettinger and Johnston for the Stars as non-lottery legit contributing players. Mason Marchment is a direct example of a steal as well.
From 2016 until 2025, the Leafs should have at least 2 or 3 more guys who are direct impact players today. That’s basically landing one legit impact guy every two drafts. I don’t think that’s asking too much. And yet, the Leafs have seemingly never been able to do it. The Leafs seem to get one every five drafts.
I’m glad they have at least one person from Dallas working on the team but we won’t be sure he’s the guy who was really the biggest brain behind the operation until many years down the road. Unfortunately, the people in charge the past 10-12 years clearly didn’t get enough hits to make a difference when we need it the most; right now.
I still maintain that if this Leafs team had it’s top 10 lottery picks as the core and the correct 1st/2nd round pick depth picks behind them, this team would be right in the conversation of Stanley Cup contenders instead of throwing away it’s leading point producer and trying to replace him with old, overpaid, spare parts as a piss poor excuse for patch work depth.
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It’s a chicken/egg problem: because this organization is always lacking outside the top 6, they blow all their draft picks on depth players that cost a premium at the deadline. When the draft comes around, they’re desperately trying to recoup some picks so that they have something to draft, but since they’re always short early picks, the chances of landing an impact player are low.
It all stems from the top-down approach this team has had to filling out the roster: ditch Marner, sign JT to a discount, and start balancing out the lineup and maybe we don’t need to cough up picks every deadline for Laughtons and Folignos.
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Here is a question
Lets say the Leafs now with Marner are a 105 point team. pretty much last season, a few lessHow many points do the Leafs have in 2025-26 if..
-they dont re-sign marner and dont replace him
-replace him with Bennett
-replace with player of your choice (name them)-
Here is a question
Lets say the Leafs now with Marner are a 105 point team. pretty much last season, a few lessHow many points do the Leafs have in 2025-26 if..
-they dont re-sign marner and dont replace him
-replace him with Bennett
-replace with player of your choice (name them)I guess it depends on what you’re looking at and how you’re looking at it. Marner both drives play and kills penalties. Bennett doesn’t kill penalties, but he did have a much higher Created xGoals – so he’s in the right places, doing the right things. I feel that if you could mix him in with Tavares and Nylander, you’ve made your second line a very dangerous line. With a healthy Matthews, it would be a resurgence, even with Marner gone – but Domi could offer a shadow of what Marner brought. You could seek out an Ehlers or a Boeser, but I’d much rather be targeting Marchand and other guys to recreate the bottom-6 with more compete and more defensive acumen to help improve the PK as a whole.
The area I’d see improvement is that you can improve the areas you can’t today due to dollar allocation which affects a larger percentage of the overall game (ie, Marner is on the ice for 33% of the game, but the other 67% does suffer as a result of the lack of rounded talent out there).
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Here is a question
Lets say the Leafs now with Marner are a 105 point team. pretty much last season, a few lessHow many points do the Leafs have in 2025-26 if..
-they dont re-sign marner and dont replace him
-replace him with Bennett
-replace with player of your choice (name them)Signing Bennet for the money and term he is going to command will be an epic mistake
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I guess it depends on what you’re looking at and how you’re looking at it. Marner both drives play and kills penalties. Bennett doesn’t kill penalties, but he did have a much higher Created xGoals – so he’s in the right places, doing the right things. I feel that if you could mix him in with Tavares and Nylander, you’ve made your second line a very dangerous line. With a healthy Matthews, it would be a resurgence, even with Marner gone – but Domi could offer a shadow of what Marner brought. You could seek out an Ehlers or a Boeser, but I’d much rather be targeting Marchand and other guys to recreate the bottom-6 with more compete and more defensive acumen to help improve the PK as a whole.
The area I’d see improvement is that you can improve the areas you can’t today due to dollar allocation which affects a larger percentage of the overall game (ie, Marner is on the ice for 33% of the game, but the other 67% does suffer as a result of the lack of rounded talent out there).
really just looking for a quick not a lot of thought put into it answer.
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Bennett isn’t coming to Toronto.
~PDO Speedwagon
My heart isn’t set on it, but he’s a good example of how you start to change the dynamic of the core. I’m not sold that he’s coming here obviously, but I’m not sold that he’s not. Most reporters say that he wants to stay in Florida but if that’s not possible, he’d like to go to Toronto. Seravalli is reporting that he’s likely to get around $7.5m x 7; Dreger is reporting that he’ll have his pick of the litter and will likely not pick Toronto as a result.
I don’t think any of them really know. I do recall that when he was being shopped from Calgary, he had Toronto as a hopeful destination, but it didn’t work out. You could circle that one as another huge miss by Dubas.
Bennett is definitely going to be pursued, and that realistic dollar figure of $7.5m is probably $9m when teams look at the escalating cap and get greedy. That being said, Bennett is going to be 29, so a 7 year deal until he’s 36 may not be the boat anchor of a contract that it _feels_ like. I don’t know. You’re looking 20 goals / 45 points – maybe that’s 55 points with Nylander – as a 2C? $9m is too high, but it may be what they’d have to pay.
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My heart isn’t set on it, but he’s a good example of how you start to change the dynamic of the core. I’m not sold that he’s coming here obviously, but I’m not sold that he’s not. Most reporters say that he wants to stay in Florida but if that’s not possible, he’d like to go to Toronto. Seravalli is reporting that he’s likely to get around $7.5m x 7; Dreger is reporting that he’ll have his pick of the litter and will likely not pick Toronto as a result.
I don’t think any of them really know. I do recall that when he was being shopped from Calgary, he had Toronto as a hopeful destination, but it didn’t work out. You could circle that one as another huge miss by Dubas.
Bennett is definitely going to be pursued, and that realistic dollar figure of $7.5m is probably $9m when teams look at the escalating cap and get greedy. That being said, Bennett is going to be 29, so a 7 year deal until he’s 36 may not be the boat anchor of a contract that it _feels_ like. I don’t know. You’re looking 20 goals / 45 points – maybe that’s 55 points with Nylander – as a 2C? $9m is too high, but it may be what they’d have to pay. – MonkeyPunk
I agree with all of that and I think Bennett is exactly the kind of player the Leafs need, dirty rotten POS that he is.
I just think the cost would be sky-high in terms of caphit and term, and he’d spend his entire Leafs tenure suspended or in the box.
The more I think about the roster next year, the more I start to sober up to the idea that this team is going to take a step back next year if they lose Marner for peanuts or nothing.
I’ll keep an open mind though. Maybe Tree has a big trade or two up his sleeve.
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Bennett isn’t coming to Toronto.
thats fine, more just looking at the overall impact of losing Marner and getting another different player. insert whoever you want
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thats fine, more just looking at the overall impact of losing Marner and getting another different player. insert whoever you want
~senstrolltwo
You’re asking a simple question that does require a slightly complex answer, though. I think you want the simple answer that of course they will be worse if Marner leaves – he’s a star player. On the surface it’s true, but it’s not about Marner – it’s about the whole of the team and what you make of it.
Losing Marner and replacing him with Ehlers is probably not a substantial difference – maybe a -6 point swing. But it’s what they do with the other money they are saving that makes the difference.
If they are truly looking to change their identity and both Berube and Treliving are on the same page, then getting guys like Bennett and Marchand make that happen – and I couldn’t predict the point swing variation from it. Older but more competitive. Tougher but less skilled. Less soft but more irritating.
At the end of the day if the forwards on this team are changed up where more than 50% of them win more than 50% of the puck battles, then you have a team that is better suited for the playoffs. When Jarnkrok, Kampf, Domi, Robertson, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Holmberg are losing more battles than they’re winning, you have a problem.
If you swap out Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, Marner and Holmberg for guys who win more puck battles than they lose, you can easy absorb and support the other 4 guys (and it should be noted that a healthy Matthews wins more battles than he loses, but this year was hopefully a statistical outlier) losing battles.
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With all the talk of if the Leafs are ‘worse’ without Marner is lacking a clear definition of what the person asking the ? views as ‘worse’.
I would be more than fine if the Leafs are “worse” if that definition of worse means the Leafs don’t win the division, end up with say 10 less points in the regular season, hell maybe more so long as they make the playoffs and go 3 or more rounds routinely.
I don’t care about regular season points at all, nor winning a division anymore.
If being “worse” as scoring and getting points = having a more balanced team that is actually built for playoff success sign me up for them being worse.
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With all the talk of if the Leafs are ‘worse’ without Marner is lacking a clear definition of what the person asking the ? views as ‘worse’.
Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him.
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Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him. – Wedgie
So, in essence, what you are saying is – Replace Marner with Poon Jenner and Tanev and we’re golden?
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Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him. – Atomic Wedgie
Why so angry? Lasagna issues? lol
You clearly see team and player points (and personal accolades to some degree)s being removed / lost as getting weaker (and I get that POV) but let me share some facts that may make you not feel as worried (and even surprise you because they surprised me) about how much a step back in points may or may not impact the Leaf if that step back is managed (the cap space / $’s are used) the right way.
I think it’s safe to say most folks look at the Panthers as the model to copy right now as far as roster construction.
Did you know the player with the most points on the Panthers was Reinhart with 81?
He was also their top goal scorer with 39 total goals.
Verhaeghe who many gripe about the Leafs not keeping had 20 goals and 33 assists……and was a -14
Sam Bennett had 25 goals, 26 assists and was a -15
So to summarize they didn’t have a single player who even score 40 goals and one guy who got 81 points with the next closest for points being Barkov with 71 points and for goals being Bennett with 25 goals.
And no, they didn’t ride unreal goaltending all year, BOB had a 2.44GAA and a .906 save %
The back up Vanecek was way worse at 3.64 GAA and a .884 Save %.
This is my point, the Panthers are just “built differently” than the Leafs – they are built for playoff success and regular season ‘good enough’.
To me if the Leafs have an opportunity and the flexibility to change and as TRE said “change the DNA” then that’s what I want them to. Not to try and replace the 100 point / Selke nominee Marner in full but replace some of that but also add in some of what he, the rest of the core and the bottom 6 simply hasn’t been able to deliver.
FOR ME that’s not worse that’s better but I can appreciate others don’t see it the same way as I do.
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It’s a chicken/egg problem: because this organization is always lacking outside the top 6, they blow all their draft picks on depth players that cost a premium at the deadline. When the draft comes around, they’re desperately trying to recoup some picks so that they have something to draft, but since they’re always short early picks, the chances of landing an impact player are low.
It all stems from the top-down approach this team has had to filling out the roster: ditch Marner, sign JT to a discount, and start balancing out the lineup and maybe we don’t need to cough up picks every deadline for Laughtons and Folignos. -gravey
I disagree. If the Leafs never signed Tavares and kept on the path of keeping their own guys at lower contracts and drafting, they wouldn’t have been in this mess.
They saw a prized UFA that finally wanted to come to Toronto but they made him the 2nd highest paid player in the league when they had 3 of their own stars they had to sign AFTER he got that deal.
After that happened, the Leafs put themselves in a cycle of panic buying every deadline because the market is impatient and they death spiraled after that.
Keeping Tavares, even at a discount (look at how trash Duchene was in the playoffs for Dallas even at 3 million) is among the worst things they could do. For the same money, they’re better off with Rielly Smith (if he wants to come “home”) and trading Rielly.
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Signing Bennet for the money and term he is going to command will be an epic mistake
Agreed. I’m a huge Bennett fan. Wish they got him from Calgary and advocated for that years and years ago. Unfortunately, the next contract Bennett signs is probably his Clarkson contract. Wrong side of 30 for the majority of it. And the Leafs would have to significantly overpay him to get him to leave a Cup winning, warm weather, low tax, no pressure situation he is in now.
It should not shock anybody if and when Bennett, Marchand and Ekblad all take discounts to stay exactly where they are and the Panthers run it back, win or lose vs the Oilers.
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Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him. -Atomic
Accurate.
And Matthews will also most likely be worse as well going from playing with an elite top 5 playmaker (whom is probably one of his closest friends) on his wing to either Domi or some other make shift, second rate replacement.
People seem to forget that Matthews is playing on a 4 year deal, not an 8 year deal. So when he becomes a UFA with a NMC, get ready for him to walk for nothing too when this team starts going into decline.
Or demand a trade and throw this team into full rebuild.
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So, in essence, what you are saying is – Replace Marner with Poon Jenner and Tanev and we’re golden? -PDO
Knies | Matthews | Marner
R. Smith | Jenner | Nylander
Domi | McBain | B. Tanev
Laughton | Blueger | Lorentz
Comtois
(or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns* | Carlo
Benoit*(if he doesn’t retire, maybe a 1×1 deal if he’s a hometown guy because he’s from Barrie. Could be the ultimate utility player as both a 7th D and a 13th forward.)
Woll | Stolarz
Marner resigned 13.16 AAV, 8 years.
Knies resigned 7 AAV, 3 years. Bridge deal. Give him 10/11 AAV when Domi comes off the books and he earns the raise.R. Smith signed 4.5 AAV, 3 years.
B. Tanev signed 1.5 AAV, 2 years.
Burns signed 1.5 AAV, 1 year.
Lorentz signed 1 AAV, 1 year.
Pacioretty (if he doesn’t retire) or Comtois signed 1 AAV, 1 year.Trade Rielly for Blueger and Myers.
Trade whatever combination of Jarnkrok, Kampf, McMann and Robertson plus draft picks for Jenner and McBain. Maybe try to pry Josh Doan too.Sign McBain (RFA) 3.25 AAV for 3 years.
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Marner finished 5th in the league in scoring, and 7th in Selke voting.
I get that we all need to come up with ways to cope with his impending departure, but FFS, this team will be weaker next year without him.
losing Marner and inserting someone else makes them a little weaker depending who it is, sure. they may go from a 105 point team to 102. But really who cares, or from 110 > 105 or whatever
But the reg season doesnt matter. getting a player/players who makes them better in the playoffs does.so maybe weaker one part of the season, but they need to focus on whatever it takes to win in the playoffs
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losing Marner and inserting someone else makes them a little weaker depending who it is, sure. they may go from a 105 point team to 102. But really who cares, or from 110 > 105 or whatever
But the reg season doesnt matter. getting a player/players who makes them better in the playoffs does.so maybe weaker one part of the season, but they need to focus on whatever it takes to win in the playoffs
No, it makes them a lot weaker. Leafs could easily go from 108 points down to 98 points and fighting for a wild card spot. The division isn’t just going to crumble next year.
For starters, Matthews won’t be happy. Going from Marner to Domi is a massive, giant downgrade. You want your 69 goal scorer to score 69 goals? You keep his #1 elite playmaker. Remember, his contract expires in 3 years. You won’t keep him if he’s not happy.
Secondly, the PP suffers, which is already shit and run by an idiot. Taking away a passing weapon like Marner makes it even harder to set-up Matthews on the PP.
Third, the defense / PK suffers because Marner is a Selke candidate who kills penalties, steals pucks and prevents goals.
If the Leafs don’t win the division again (without Marner, they won’t), they risk losing to the Panthers in the 1st round. Or even Tampa Bay. Ottawa won’t be an easy out either. Neither is an up and coming Montreal team. Just because Boston fell off the map, doesn’t mean the regular season and the division don’t matter anymore. The worse the match-up, the less likely they can win a playoff round, much less multiple rounds.
And if you go down the list of UFAs, the vast majority of them are garbage in the playoffs, including Tavares who did not score a point in 6 out of 7 games against Florida and will only get worse defensively at 35+. So as much as people want to make BeLeaf they can just replace Marner with UFA playoff Gods, they are indeed dreaming. The playoff performers out there are either 35+ (Giroux, Kane, Toews etc.) or going to stay where they are (Bennett, Marchand in Florida) if they know what is good for them.
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No, it makes them a lot weaker. Leafs could easily go from 108 points down to 98 points and fighting for a wild card spot. The division isn’t just going to crumble next year.
For starters, Matthews won’t be happy. Going from Marner to Domi is a massive, giant downgrade. You want your 69 goal scorer to score 69 goals? You keep his #1 elite playmaker. Remember, his contract expires in 3 years. You won’t keep him if he’s not happy.
Secondly, the PP suffers, which is already shit and run by an idiot. Taking away a passing weapon like Marner makes it even harder to set-up Matthews on the PP.
Third, the defense / PK suffers because Marner is a Selke candidate who kills penalties, steals pucks and prevents goals.
If the Leafs don’t win the division again (without Marner, they won’t), they risk losing to the Panthers in the 1st round. Or even Tampa Bay. Ottawa won’t be an easy out either. Neither is an up and coming Montreal team. Just because Boston fell off the map, doesn’t mean the regular season and the division don’t matter anymore. The worse the match-up, the less likely they can win a playoff round, much less multiple rounds.
And if you go down the list of UFAs, the vast majority of them are garbage in the playoffs, including Tavares who did not score a point in 6 out of 7 games against Florida and will only get worse defensively at 35+. So as much as people want to make BeLeaf they can just replace Marner with UFA playoff Gods, they are indeed dreaming. The playoff performers out there are either 35+ (Giroux, Kane, Toews etc.) or going to stay where they are (Bennett, Marchand in Florida) if they know what is good for them.
~UGNever winning a thing because you sunk all your money into 3-4 guys who all play the same way and don’t have the balls to stand up when it counts is another sure way to lose your players. If the Leafs had insulated Marner with size and given him his own line to drive instead of putting him with Matthews, maybe the fanbase doesn’t scapegoat him and maybe he stays. They didn’t. An overwhelming majority of the fanbase hates him and wants him gone – ironically while driving him out of town, they’ll also hate him for not waiving his NTC for Rantanen because he wanted to stay.
But Marner just does the same things every year – gets pushed to the perimeter and isn’t strong enough nor fast enough to push the defenders back when he’s entering the zone. The book on Marner is – close on him quickly and he’ll give away the puck.
He is nowhere near as talented, but Domi was more effective against Florida than Marner was. 9 years of all of these guys not showing up when it counts – and maybe you give them a pass for their first couple of years – but 7 years with Tavares – and none of them have stepped up when it mattered, and what’s worse is that they have actually played worse when it mattered.
How long do you get? How often can we keep trying with the same guys who don’t step up and get it done before we start to say we need other guys? It starts with Marner because he’s easy. You get nothing for him but you’re not overpaying him and he has to go – you heard the fans booing specifically him in game 7. In my opinion, there’s no coming back there.
I know Marner is fantastic and versatile and an excellent player. I also know that we have too much “Mitch Marner” on this team already and not enough Bennett and Marchand and Benn (I don’t want THIS Benn, I want prime Benn – but he comes to mind as what you need) and Perry. They need more asshole and a lot less pretty.
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its not just minus marner. you replace him with 8mil and 5 mil players.
who are better playoff warriors. dont care about the reg season. They have to go through good teams no matter what. They had home ice, didnt help. just get better..in the playoffs
Name the players. Go ahead. Name the 8 million and 5 million dollar players who are “better playoff warriors” who will actually sign with the Leafs.
Good luck.
Berube is 100% behind keeping Marner too by the way. And Berube is obviously viewed as a straight shooter and a guy who likes his “playoff warriors” but clearly doesn’t have a problem with keeping Marner.
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Never winning a thing because you sunk all your money into 3-4 guys who all play the same way and don’t have the balls to stand up when it counts is another sure way to lose your players. If the Leafs had insulated Marner with size and given him his own line to drive instead of putting him with Matthews, maybe the fanbase doesn’t scapegoat him and maybe he stays. They didn’t. An overwhelming majority of the fanbase hates him and wants him gone – ironically while driving him out of town, they’ll also hate him for not waiving his NTC for Rantanen because he wanted to stay.
They sunk their “depth” money into Tavares. Now it’s being eaten up by Kampf, Jarnkrok, Rielly and Tavares. Why continue to make the exact same mistake again? They had the “balls” to make Tavares the 2nd highest paid player in the league. 7 years came and went. No Cup. Why go back to that well ever again? They made him captain. They stripped him of the captaincy. He failed miserably against Florida. Why does he get to come back?
Fuck those fans. They don’t know a damn thing. And they should not influence management one bit because those are the same morons screaming to bring back Tavares at a “discount” so he can offensively disappear and defensively implode again and again and again in his Leafs pajamas.
You know who does want him back? Matthews and Berube. And that’s who should matter. If those bitch fans want to cry about Marner, tell them to stop watching. Bet you they won’t. Also bet you that if they do, there’s millions of people who will replace them in an instant. Nobody is canceling a season ticket because Marner gets an 8 year extension. Those tickets are already bought and paid for.
But Marner just does the same things every year – gets pushed to the perimeter and isn’t strong enough nor fast enough to push the defenders back when he’s entering the zone. The book on Marner is – close on him quickly and he’ll give away the puck.
You could say that about a lot of players, including the majority of players some people are suggesting can “replace” Marner from the UFA list. Most of which have far worse playoff stats than Marner. Is he still the 100 point force in the playoffs? No. But he scored against Ottawa, especially on the PP to win that round. And against Florida he did his part to win games even though he wasn’t filling up the stat sheet every game. One GWG and one primary GWG assist is significantly more than anybody else on the team not named Knies and Matthews who also had one GWG each.
If the goal is to beat Florida, why the fuck would anybody ever consider getting rid of any one of the three players who clearly helped win a game each? The top line of Knies, Matthews and Marner were NOT the problem against Florida. They didn’t blow the doors off them offensively but they kept their 1st line even.
He is nowhere near as talented, but Domi was more effective against Florida than Marner was. 9 years of all of these guys not showing up when it counts – and maybe you give them a pass for their first couple of years – but 7 years with Tavares – and none of them have stepped up when it mattered, and what’s worse is that they have actually played worse when it mattered.
The Red Wings almost traded Yzerman in 92 and again in 95. Drafted in 83, didn’t win a Cup until 97. It took Ovechkin 12 years to get past the Penguins and the 2nd round. The road to the Cup is not always immediate. The Leafs would be fools to give up on their best players for nothing because, unfortunately, it’s still the best option they got.
You should know this better than anybody that Domi wasn’t playing against the Barkov line. You also know that Domi is a maniac who takes idiotic penalties. He’s fine on your 3rd line but he’d get buried playing the harder minutes Marner had to play. Marner did step up against Florida, as I said earlier, he played a part in winning 2 out of the 3 games they did win. You subtract that, you don’t even get a sniff of Game 7.
How long do you get? How often can we keep trying with the same guys who don’t step up and get it done before we start to say we need other guys? It starts with Marner because he’s easy. You get nothing for him but you’re not overpaying him and he has to go – you heard the fans booing specifically him in game 7. In my opinion, there’s no coming back there.
How long do you tolerate Nylander after he disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7? Oh, he doesn’t get a pass because that’s more difficult to trade him? Matthews had ZERO 2nd round playoff goals (still only has 1) and finished multiple years of playoff runs with 1 goal and terrible output. How long before they throw his jersey on the ice next? The mob can’t run this team because the mob is usually wrong, they’re just too stupid to know it.
I know Marner is fantastic and versatile and an excellent player. I also know that we have too much “Mitch Marner” on this team already and not enough Bennett and Marchand and Benn (I don’t want THIS Benn, I want prime Benn – but he comes to mind as what you need) and Perry. They need more asshole and a lot less pretty.
The problem is not our best players. The problem is the players we keep bringing back who are holding the team back. That would be Tavares, Rielly, Jarnkrok and Kampf. There is more than enough salary (17.5 million if you remove those guys) to sign the correct depth pieces if you simply remove the players that actually deserve to be removed from the team. You will not get Bennett and Marchand unless you grossly overpay for them. You do absolutely nothing positive by giving Bennett 9 million dollars a year on the back half of his career to score a career high 51 points and bringing back the pylons that are Rielly and Tavares who negate whatever good he brings.
When Marner walks for nothing, Bennett and Marchand resign with the Panthers, what will the Leafs do? They’re fucked.
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As for Marner’s replacement numbers/impact:
Hard to say, but FLA for example, TBL, etc. are never using the standings as any kind of metric: it’s all about mile markers towards playoff preparedness, individually and as a team. They’ve fully embraced the “playoffs is like a different league” mentality and built a team around that.
Like I think if the Leafs got Bennett and Marchand, for example, this team would still be a 95+ point team, assuming Matthews is healthy.
Leafs should’ve shut down Matthews for the last 8-10 weeks, spent over the cap like all the good teams do when their star players are hurt, and worried less about home-ice advantage, which clearly didn’t do much in the grand scheme of things.
Let’s say we get Bennett and Marchard, DNA changing players built for playoffs, proven playoff performers; generally clutch guys.
Knies Matthews Domi: the line is a little less effective defensively, but you still have a Selke nominee center, plus Knies is a responsible 200′ player in the making, so it’s not like a huge drop-off there at 5v5.
It’s a little less crafty/shifty, but it’s also quite a bit more intense, physical, puck battle-winning line with Domi on it.
McMann Tavares Nylander: no changes obviously, although McMann has room to improve and I don’t think Tavares takes a really step back here.
Robertson Bennett Marchand: a massive upgrade over the 3rd lines we’ve had, and we’re now truly capable of scoring across all three (maybe 4) lines. Robertson will get a lot of time/space with that line, and he has a Mighty Midget in Marchand to look up to, not to mention Bennett. Maybe Robertson’s gone, but a scoring complementary winger here who can pot 15+ goals would be great and I think a full season of Robbie here could definitely work.
Lorentz Laughton Holmberg: a line that will get buried in DZ starts and will probably come out even, and maybe even pot a few here and there, but will be relied upon for majority of the PK duties. Definitely opportunity to tinker here for not a lot of cap space.
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As for Marner’s replacement numbers/impact:
Hard to say, but FLA for example, TBL, etc. are never using the standings as any kind of metric: it’s all about mile markers towards playoff preparedness, individually and as a team. They’ve fully embraced the “playoffs is like a different league” mentality and built a team around that.
And yet, Florida aren’t rolling into the playoffs with 95 points and winning the Cup. Florida ran to the Finals as a Wild Card but lost. They won the Cup when they won the division last year. Vegas won the Cup in 2023, also won their division. So did Colorado in 2022. Tampa Bay sandbagged with LTIR in 2020 and 2021 so they could have also won the division as both seasons were shortened by COVID. As did Washington the year they finally beat Pittsburgh in 2018.
I’d still say the Leafs are way better off winning the division and getting the easier match-up than they are trying to underdog it as a wild card team.
Like I think if the Leafs got Bennett and Marchand, for example, this team would still be a 95+ point team, assuming Matthews is healthy.
95 points could mean you miss the playoffs. Bennett’s career high is 51 points. And Marchand is 37 and also had 51 points last year. How much gas you think these guys have left in the tank for the playoffs if he has to scratch and claw to make the playoffs? Especially Bennett who has had 3 deep playoff runs in a row.
Leafs should’ve shut down Matthews for the last 8-10 weeks, spent over the cap like all the good teams do when their star players are hurt, and worried less about home-ice advantage, which clearly didn’t do much in the grand scheme of things.
Agreed. After the 4 Nations, he should have been shut down. It would have allowed the Leafs to have even more deadline cap space and probably allows them to add better players than Carlo and Laughton who were both pretty big disappointments considering the price they paid and who the Panthers got. Seth Jones vs Carlo and Laughton vs Marchand. That’s a giant difference in deadline day upgrades that proved to be a big difference on the ice too.
Let’s say we get Bennett and Marchard, DNA changing players built for playoffs, proven playoff performers; generally clutch guys.
I think assuming the Leafs getting Bennett and Marchand is like assuming they’re getting McDavid in 2026 as a UFA. I think it’s a long shot dream scenario that probably doesn’t pan out in the Leafs favor. They’re going back to Florida, they’d be major league idiots not to.
Knies Matthews Domi: the line is a little less effective defensively, but you still have a Selke nominee center, plus Knies is a responsible 200′ player in the making, so it’s not like a huge drop-off there at 5v5. It’s a little less crafty/shifty, but it’s also quite a bit more intense, physical, puck battle-winning line with Domi on it.
Giant drop off for Matthews and Knies. I’d say combined, that line probably scores 20-30 less goals without Marner. Probably get scored on another 10-15 extra times too. Domi takes penalties and can’t play defense. So don’t expect Matthews to be some kind of defensive wizard when he has to take care of his area as well as Domi’s. That probably costs Matthews a bunch of goals too just having to play more time in his own zone because of Domi.
Domi was tried as a top-line player. He failed. He is, at best, a 3rd liner who can occasionally play on the 2nd line if his C and RW are rock solid. Which, on the Leafs, they are not.
McMann Tavares Nylander: no changes obviously, although McMann has room to improve and I don’t think Tavares takes a really step back here.
Horrible line to go back to exactly the same considering McMann scored 0 playoff goals, Tavares was shutout in 6 out of 7 games and Nylander disappeared after Game 3. Sorry, but if this is your 2nd line, you are losing in the 1st round 75% of the time and going beyond the 2nd round 0% of the time.
Nylander is horrid defensively and so is Tavares. You can afford to keep Nylander. But Tavares can’t even score his way out of his horrible defense anymore. This line is why the Leafs lose in the playoffs. That’s what nobody seems to understand or learn.
Robertson Bennett Marchand: a massive upgrade over the 3rd lines we’ve had, and we’re now truly capable of scoring across all three (maybe 4) lines. Robertson will get a lot of time/space with that line, and he has a Mighty Midget in Marchand to look up to, not to mention Bennett. Maybe Robertson’s gone, but a scoring complementary winger here who can pot 15+ goals would be great and I think a full season of Robbie here could definitely work.
Robertson is dog shit. There’s no way the Leafs land these two guys and then saddle them with Robertson AND slap them on the 3rd line. Bennett and Marchand cost the Leafs, at least, 9 and 8 AAV each. There’s no way you can afford to pay that much to put them on the 3rd line and expect to win games.
Lorentz Laughton Holmberg: a line that will get buried in DZ starts and will probably come out even, and maybe even pot a few here and there, but will be relied upon for majority of the PK duties. Definitely opportunity to tinker here for not a lot of cap space.
Lorentz and Laughton can get another chance (as rotational players) but Holmberg is another dog shitter. If this is the Leafs 4th line, expect 0 goals and more playoff failure.
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Lorentz and Laughton can get another chance (as rotational players) but Holmberg is another dog shitter. If this is the Leafs 4th line, expect 0 goals and more playoff failure.
I agree with this sentiment. Holmberg is a punching bag and not a playoff performer. I didn’t mind Lorentz and Laughton. They did their job. The big boys didn’t. Robertson is a player that some teams might see as a possible player that they can reclaim. Use him for either a pick, or as a bargaining chip in a bigger trade. Still think that Boeser is an option, if Marner walks. A different type of player, but has been a decent point producer in the past.
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I agree with this sentiment. Holmberg is a punching bag and not a playoff performer. I didn’t mind Lorentz and Laughton. They did their job. The big boys didn’t. Robertson is a player that some teams might see as a possible player that they can reclaim. Use him for either a pick, or as a bargaining chip in a bigger trade. Still think that Boeser is an option, if Marner walks. A different type of player, but has been a decent point producer in the past.
50 point, -25 player. Give it up. Boeser blows.
He’s also not from Toronto or Canada. After living in Vanpoover, he’s never playing in Canada again unless he’s grossly overpaid. He’ll end up in Minnesota.
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I agree with the Gravy ????
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares NylanderInvest in 3rd line
Or trade Domi and Kampf to NYR for Kreider Trade 44 for Coleman
Lol, not winning shit with that top-six, sorry. 2nd line is horrible defensively.
Don’t see the Rangers accepting that, he also has a NTC. No chance Calgary or Rielly accept that trade either.
Rielly is going to very, very few places. Either a contender stupid enough to take him, Vancouver, Seattle and maybe Utah because it’s closer to the West coast. But probably not Utah because he loves his rainbow flags, so, again, back to Vancouver and Seattle as the top two locations.
I agree, invest in the 3rd line but that means bringing in a strong, 3C and that means Jenner and/or McBain and UFAs for wingers.
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Wedgie you still here? Haven’t been reading much on here or hb lately.
Anyways the wife is running a 5k on the weekend. She runs at like 32 min pace but is just starting. She’s been working out everyday for 15+ years and only ever walked for cardio. All of a sudden she got the run fever and has been running every other day.
I ran a 5k last year for fun in under 25. We went for my second ever run since I was kid 2 weeks ago. She ran with me in under 30. She was dying and it was a brisk walk for me.
Next question is sub 20 impossible for a newbie and leave the wife in the dust to pursue higher goals in setting a new personal best. Or do I play the good husband and run along with her? She has also has friends from work there.
I’ll hang up and listen.
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Also some time has passed and I’m learning to heal and move forward
Run it back.
Yzerman had to wait 14 years to win a Cup. Almost got traded twice, in 92 and 95.
Ovechkin, the greatest goal scorer to ever live, took 12 years. He has only made it past the 2nd round once and it was the time he won the Cup. Once in TWENTY SEASONS.
It took Nathan MacKinnon 8 years to win a Cup. Hasn’t gone past the 2nd round since.
McDavid hasn’t won a Cup yet either. And his team isn’t considered the favorite to win it this year either.
Winning a Cup is very, very difficult even when you have the best players to ever play the game.
The Leafs have made a lot of mistakes and they’re definitely taking the long road to win a Cup. But these guys (Matthews, Marner and Nylander) are still the best chance they got. And they were 1 game away from being where Florida is right now. Keep your best players, get rid of the guys who suck defensively and bring in the right role players.
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The Leafs were 29th at 5v5 expected goals last year; that’s lottery team level right there.
They won the division because they had excellent goaltending and a much better defensive group.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to exceed at this point in his career. I would say Marner needs Matthews far more than the other way around.
Marner plays slow, was incapable of getting in on the forecheck, so any winger capable of doing that is going to suit Berube’s systems.
With Marner gone, they can build out a balanced team, it’s really that simple.
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senstrolltwo
Participant
its not just minus marner. you replace him with 8mil and 5 mil players.who are better playoff warriors. dont care about the reg season. They have to go through good teams no matter what. They had home ice, didnt help. just get better..in the playoffs
Ok, but who are these players that they are going to get for $8m and $5m that are playoff warriors that want to play for the leafs?
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Ok, but who are these players that they are going to get for $8m and $5m that are playoff warriors that want to play for the leafs?
~Fakepartofme
We don’t know who does and who doesn’t and who is going to stay where they are and so on.
Bennett and Marchand both grew up Leaf fans and Bennett is from Holland’s Landing. He expressed interest in coming here before. Marchand’s requirement is to be in the east and play for a contender. Both of these guys fit in that bill. Would they come here? No one knows, but the opportunity at least exists.
Brandon Tanev has publicly said that wants to finish his career playing alongside his brother. Now would be a pretty good time to consider that.
There are players out there that would remake the bottom-6 on this team significantly better than it is. Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson and Holmberg would all go; Reaves would ride the bus with the Marlies. McMann, Lorentz and Laughton could stay. Right now I have penciled in Knies at $7.5 and Tavares at $5.5 and that leaves you with $18.5m. Bennett, Marchand, Tanev, any of Suter, Bjugstad or Faksa (particularly Faksa, because I liked how he played in this year’s playoffs at any rate).
Depending on contracts – assuming around 8 for Bennett, 4.5 for Marchand and then 2 and 2.5 for Tanev and Faksa, you have a bit of wiggle room sitting there for 13th F and 7th D as needed – Cowan, Quillan, Steeves (if he resigns), or someone else – and guys like Myers, Danford or Webber could slot in the the 7 spot.
When you move outside of the Bennett and Marchand type players in this year’s crop I don’t see a lot that “changes the DNA” – Duchene, Ehlers, Boeser, Giroux, Mangiapane, Kane – good players, but older to old – and not really carrying the reputation of being hard to play against.
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gravyface
Participant
The Leafs were 29th at 5v5 expected goals last year; that’s lottery team level right there.They won the division because they had excellent goaltending and a much better defensive group.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to exceed at this point in his career. I would say Marner needs Matthews far more than the other way around.
Marner plays slow, was incapable of getting in on the forecheck, so any winger capable of doing that is going to suit Berube’s systems.
With Marner gone, they can build out a balanced team, it’s really that simple.
Not sure about that.
So far we know, matthews passes more when marner isnt on his wing.
Marner scores more when Matthews isnt on this line.
Everyone who plays with Marner sees their points go up.
Matthews can still score (just not the past year or so) in short term without marner
The leafs have a great record with Matthews out of the line up and Marner in. That drops a little when its the other way around.
Marner and matthews can, have been and probably will still be successful without eachother. Its just not true that marner “needs” matthews.
Now, I do agree the money and team need to be more balanced and that something needs to change….and right now the easiest thing to change are the two FA’s.
But we always seem to think that throwing money at FA’s will solve everything…..with marner leaving, we’ll have $25m to spend. Knies will take up about $7m of that. So $18m to get a top 6 winger and center and improve our bottom 6…..and we dont have any 1st rounders for the 3 years.
That’s tight.
Also, will our old D be able to stay healthy most of the year?
Can our goaltending repeat how stellar they were this past season?
Also, other teams will improve as well.
Im sure change is coming…..just not sure the change will make the grass any greener.
And I get that running it back is nuts as well.
The leafs have leafed themselves……..again. -
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Leafs get 9 goals, 29 points.
Marner gets to laugh as hard as Kadri did as he wins a Cup.
Great deal!
~UGyou gotta face it, Marner will NOT be back with the Leafs.
Don’t forget Karlsson was hurt at the beginning of last season and missed like 30+ games.
When healthy, Karlsson can put up point on the board. -
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The Leafs were 29th at 5v5 expected goals last year; that’s lottery team level right there.
They won the division because they had excellent goaltending and a much better defensive group.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to exceed at this point in his career. I would say Marner needs Matthews far more than the other way around.
Marner plays slow, was incapable of getting in on the forecheck, so any winger capable of doing that is going to suit Berube’s systems.
With Marner gone, they can build out a balanced team, it’s really that simple.
Agree here, I think there are some parallels with Florida. Mike Kelly explains it here
https://x.com/MikeKellyNHL/status/1929905485651612050
Panthers brought in Maurice and moved on from Huberdeau, scored 115 points..but so what
changed the makeup and playing style. no more running it backNow they are going all in with Berube, so they have to get players to fit his style. soft Mitch hasnt worked. and paying 14 mil wont fix it
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I care just enough about the final to post about how much I don’t care about it. – Speedsie
It’s either get excited about the Oilers, or watch the Blue Jays.
Go Oilers Go
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We don’t know who does and who doesn’t and who is going to stay where they are and so on.
Bennett and Marchand both grew up Leaf fans and Bennett is from Holland’s Landing. He expressed interest in coming here before. Marchand’s requirement is to be in the east and play for a contender. Both of these guys fit in that bill. Would they come here? No one knows, but the opportunity at least exists.
Brandon Tanev has publicly said that wants to finish his career playing alongside his brother. Now would be a pretty good time to consider that.
There are players out there that would remake the bottom-6 on this team significantly better than it is. Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson and Holmberg would all go; Reaves would ride the bus with the Marlies. McMann, Lorentz and Laughton could stay. Right now I have penciled in Knies at $7.5 and Tavares at $5.5 and that leaves you with $18.5m. Bennett, Marchand, Tanev, any of Suter, Bjugstad or Faksa (particularly Faksa, because I liked how he played in this year’s playoffs at any rate).
Depending on contracts – assuming around 8 for Bennett, 4.5 for Marchand and then 2 and 2.5 for Tanev and Faksa, you have a bit of wiggle room sitting there for 13th F and 7th D as needed – Cowan, Quillan, Steeves (if he resigns), or someone else – and guys like Myers, Danford or Webber could slot in the the 7 spot.
When you move outside of the Bennett and Marchand type players in this year’s crop I don’t see a lot that “changes the DNA” – Duchene, Ehlers, Boeser, Giroux, Mangiapane, Kane – good players, but older to old – and not really carrying the reputation of being hard to play against.
– Punksie
I’m Atomic Wedgie, and I approve this message.
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monkeypunk
Participant
We don’t know who does and who doesn’t and who is going to stay where they are and so on.
Bennett and Marchand both grew up Leaf fans and Bennett is from Holland’s Landing. He expressed interest in coming here before. Marchand’s requirement is to be in the east and play for a contender. Both of these guys fit in that bill. Would they come here? No one knows, but the opportunity at least exists.
Brandon Tanev has publicly said that wants to finish his career playing alongside his brother. Now would be a pretty good time to consider that.
There are players out there that would remake the bottom-6 on this team significantly better than it is. Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson and Holmberg would all go; Reaves would ride the bus with the Marlies. McMann, Lorentz and Laughton could stay. Right now I have penciled in Knies at $7.5 and Tavares at $5.5 and that leaves you with $18.5m. Bennett, Marchand, Tanev, any of Suter, Bjugstad or Faksa (particularly Faksa, because I liked how he played in this year’s playoffs at any rate).Depending on contracts – assuming around 8 for Bennett, 4.5 for Marchand and then 2 and 2.5 for Tanev and Faksa, you have a bit of wiggle room sitting there for 13th F and 7th D as needed – Cowan, Quillan, Steeves (if he resigns), or someone else – and guys like Myers, Danford or Webber could slot in the the 7 spot.
When you move outside of the Bennett and Marchand type players in this year’s crop I don’t see a lot that “changes the DNA” – Duchene, Ehlers, Boeser, Giroux, Mangiapane, Kane – good players, but older to old – and not really carrying the reputation of being hard to play against.
So maybe this year isnt the off season the leafs sign long term deals….sign short term/1 year deals if possible, with talented enough players to get you into the playoffs. Then put more money into next years off season. Better players it seems.
But Im not sure Marchand will be as affective here as he is in Florida. In florida hes on the 3rd line….here, he will mostly like be used on 2nd.
If bennett would sign for $8m per….sure….but I think for Toronto its closer to $10 per…..not interested in that-
So maybe this year isnt the off season the leafs sign long term deals….sign short term/1 year deals if possible, with talented enough players to get you into the playoffs. Then put more money into next years off season. Better players it seems.
But Im not sure Marchand will be as affective here as he is in Florida. In florida hes on the 3rd line….here, he will mostly like be used on 2nd.
If bennett would sign for $8m per….sure….but I think for Toronto its closer to $10 per…..not interested in thatI’ve been hearing that for years, “next year’s UFA crop is going to be amazing” and most of the time, those players end up signing long-term deals.
Do you take a step back next year so you can take a swing at McDavid? That’s a big risk.
I think as long as we come out with a balanced top 9, even if the top line takes a step back, we’ll be in better shape, and the only way to do that is to add this off-season and let Marner walk.
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It’s simply amazing those guys were able to pass the WWE’s strict drug tests.
Edit: what happened to the Hulkster vs. Ultimate Warrior image?
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The Leafs were 29th at 5v5 expected goals last year; that’s lottery team level right there.
They won the division because they had excellent goaltending and a much better defensive group.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to exceed at this point in his career. I would say Marner needs Matthews far more than the other way around.
Marner plays slow, was incapable of getting in on the forecheck, so any winger capable of doing that is going to suit Berube’s systems.
With Marner gone, they can build out a balanced team, it’s really that simple. -gravy
So expected goals sucked therefore let a 100 point player walk for nothing and then win the Cup with the 32nd expected goals for? Excellent plan.
If the goaltending and D take a step back, the Leafs are absolutely, royally fucked, even with Marner and without him, they miss the playoffs entirely.
Berube himself stated he wants Marner back so obviously he already fits in his system.
With Marner gone, there are no players available who actually want to play in Toronto without being grossly overpaid.
Everybody here seems to want “balance” but can’t name players or what they will cost that will actually sign here and be an improvement. It’s a self-serving BeLeaf bullshit story.
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Agree here, I think there are some parallels with Florida. Mike Kelly explains it here
https://x.com/MikeKellyNHL/status/1929905485651612050
Panthers brought in Maurice and moved on from Huberdeau, scored 115 points..but so what
changed the makeup and playing style. no more running it backNow they are going all in with Berube, so they have to get players to fit his style. soft Mitch hasnt worked. and paying 14 mil wont fix it
So the NHL made a new UFA rule where if a player leaves as a UFA, the team that lost him automatically gets Matthew Tkachuk?
Because as cute as that comparison is, Huberdeau didn’t leave the team for NOTHING.
Also, Marner fits perfectly into Berube’s system as Berube has already said he wants Marner back 100%. So this false narrative that Marner doesn’t fit under Berube is a pile of horseshit.
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So maybe this year isnt the off season the leafs sign long term deals….sign short term/1 year deals if possible, with talented enough players to get you into the playoffs. Then put more money into next years off season. Better players it seems.
But Im not sure Marchand will be as affective here as he is in Florida. In florida hes on the 3rd line….here, he will mostly like be used on 2nd.
If bennett would sign for $8m per….sure….but I think for Toronto its closer to $10 per…..not interested in that
~FakepartofmeIt’s a possibility. I sincerely think that the Leafs have to look at Matthews turning 28 before the season starts, accompanied by 29 year old Nylander, 30 year old Domi, 31 year old Rielly, a 35 year old Tavares if he resigns (well I don’t think his signing here advances the aging the process it just looks that way) – and ask if you can afford to willingly take a year off or deliberately step back.
I figure changing the DNA happens only an iteration of three ways and they involve the departure of the real core-3: One or more than one of Matthews, Marner or Nylander. Tavares was an expense and he was the captain – but I don’t think he’s at the root of the issues with the team. Rielly is an expense but his impact can be mitigated by changing his role to a second pairing – like they did for most of last year. Replace Rielly with Ekblad and you’ve changed the defense for the much better, as an example, but it doesn’t change the fundamental problem with the core forwards, does it?
I also see people saying that they shouldn’t spend so they can be there if McDavid is available. To me that’s a pipe dream and it’s not one you sacrifice a hockey season to entertain. They either believe in the approach they are taking with the people they have (or acquire) or they need to make more changes because the Leafs aren’t in a rebuild or retool phase. If anything they’re changing tack and hopefully finding the personally who can direct the ship that way properly.
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Also, Marner fits perfectly into Berube’s system as Berube has already said he wants Marner back 100%. So this false narrative that Marner doesn’t fit under Berube is a pile of horseshit.
Just because Berube said 100% he wants Marner back doesn’t means Marner somehow fits Berube’s style all of a sudden.
Marner is a highly gifted and skilled, but super soft player who doesn’t forecheck to save his life & racks up the regular season points playing with a guy who scored 69 fucking goals one year. Oh and racks up points in playoff series games 1-4 or non-elimination games and don’t give me the bullshit about him with the ‘primairy assist on the GWG Matthews scored” that was a 2 foot shovel pass. The book around the league on Marner is to put quick and tough pressure on him (aka bully and intimidate him) and he will cough up the puck – and it’s true and we have all seen it year over year when the playoff come.
That is the furthest thing from a “Craig Berube” type of player – ever.
Berube is the coach of the team that has 2 UFA’s who they are presumably negotiating with so it’s his job to say nothing but positive things about those players and anyone who can’t understand that is just fooling themselves.
Is JT a “Craig Berube” type of player?
I mean you keep saying JT is horrific defensively and dog shit but lone behold guess what the coach said about re-signing JT……
Berube ‘100%’ wants Leafs to re-sign Marner, Tavares
Maple Leafs head coach Craig Berube made it clear that he hopes the team finds a way to bring back Mitch Marner and John Tavares with both players heading into free agency. Berube expressed his love for Marner and how he enjoyed coaching him throughout the season.https://www.tsn.ca/video/berube-100-wants-leafs-to-re-sign-marner-tavares~3137031
Berube’s comments and sound bites need to be taken with context in mind, a grain of salt and through the lens of the fact he is the coach and is doing (and saying) what the GM / Team is asking or telling him to say.
He’s been around long enough I’m sure Tre doesn’t need to tell him not to say Marner is soft or JT is too slow or whatever negatives he sees in either player so he doesn’t have a negative impact on Tre doing his work to re-sign these guys, maximize whatever they can get for negotiating rights to either or make other players think Toronto will drag them through the mud as a UFA.
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its so hard to post here with the douchy know it all replies spamming the threads. every reply is just dripping with complete asshole vibes
thats all
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its so hard to post here with the douchy know it all replies spamming the threads. every reply is just dripping with complete asshole vibes
thats all senstrolltwo
Full admission that I know I’m guilty of this sometimes but I like to think/hope I only do this when I’m replying to a comment or replies that have been posted in the nature that you are talking about. The last reply I posted I had typed out and edited 3 times to try and avoid dragging the thread into a silly argument and more a discussion but I’m not sure if I’ll have success on that front or not.
So in short – sorry if it was me who has made you feel that way, the last thing I think the vast majority of the folks here want is to see this place take on what so many hate about that other place.
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I also see people saying that they shouldn’t spend so they can be there if McDavid is available. To me that’s a pipe dream and it’s not one you sacrifice a hockey season to entertain. They either believe in the approach they are taking with the people they have (or acquire) or they need to make more changes because the Leafs aren’t in a rebuild or retool phase. If anything they’re changing tack and hopefully finding the personally who can direct the ship that way properly.
The odds of signing McDavid are about the same as signing Bennett and Marchand.
Is JT a “Craig Berube” type of player?
I mean you keep saying JT is horrific defensively and dog shit but lone behold guess what the coach said about re-signing JT……
No, he isn’t. And the difference is the stats prove that Tavares is horrible defensively whereas the stats prove Marner is not.
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Is JT a “Craig Berube” type of player?
I mean you keep saying JT is horrific defensively and dog shit but lone behold guess what the coach said about re-signing JT……
No, he isn’t. And the difference is the stats prove that Tavares is horrible defensively whereas the stats prove Marner is not.
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IF TRUE
then this just proves my point that what Berube is saying in the media has to be taken with a grain of salt – he’s doing his job and following marching orders when he makes statements about UFA’s. And again he also said 100% he wanted to re-sign both Marner and JT.
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I think as long as we come out with a balanced top 9, even if the top line takes a step back, we’ll be in better shape, and the only way to do that is to add this off-season and let Marner walk.
I’m sure Matthews is going to absolutely love trying to score in the playoffs with even less help.
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I’m sure Matthews is going to absolutely love trying to score in the playoffs with even less help.
Tkachuk has barely scored — and didn’t against us — and the team had no problem potting goals against our team, because we lost all the matchups or at best, came out evens, so our entire offense was nullified when the top 2 lines were shutdown.
Like it’s not as if this is a recent thing either: it’s been 8 years of this man. Way overdue for a change in the makeup of this team and it starts with saying goodbye to Marner. There is absolutely no way you can build a balanced team with that much allocated to so few players. So easy to shutdown and let your depth feast on our perennially weak bottom 6 that will always be at a disadvantage thanks to no money to spend on it.
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https://puckpedia.com/player/morgan-rielly/buyout?s=2025-2026
Buy-out for Morgan Rielly isn’t all that bad.
Leafs save 5.8 AAV this year and roughly 3.8 AAV for the rest of his contract. They won’t be taking a big “penalty” until 2030-2035 of 2.1 AAV per year.
Still better off trying to trade him to Vancouver or Seattle. But a buy-out is possible too as a plan B.
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Buy-out for Morgan Rielly isn’t all that bad.
I guess some may say it’s “not bad” for year one at 1.6M (but to me, consdering how tight the Leafs are to the cap, it’s bad).
Not sure how 3.6 per against the cap for 4 years and then 2.13M per year for another 6 years can’t be described as anything other than bad, especially when you consider how tight to the cap the Leafs have been and probably always will be.
To me a Rielly buy out is an option that should even be considered.
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IF TRUE
then this just proves my point that what Berube is saying in the media has to be taken with a grain of salt – he’s doing his job and following marching orders when he makes statements about UFA’s. And again he also said 100% he wanted to re-sign both Marner and JT.Tavares is a great human being. He’s a really nice guy. Dedicated. Good pro. But his teams lose playoff games because he’s not good enough where it matters.
When Berube says he wants Tavares back, he wants the person back. But the player, the stats have proven, is a loser. He’s too slow, he’s too shit defensively and offensively, vs Florida, he did nothing in 6 out of 7 games, including the PP which sucked.
“Saving” money with Tavares won’t make a damn difference when you have to spend the money you “saved” to make up for his obvious deficiencies. If they’re smart, they won’t take back Tavares unless he’s on a Corey Perry contract. Anything more than that is a self inflicted gunshot wound to the Leafs playoff success hopes.
When Tre and Berube sit down and look at the tape, when they investigate the reasons they lost the games they lost to the Panthers, they will see that Tavares was a problem and that Marner was the reason why they actually won games. And if they don’t, the team will fail. It’s that simple.
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I guess some may say it’s “not bad” for year one at 1.6M (but to me, consdering how tight the Leafs are to the cap, it’s bad).
Not sure how 3.6 per against the cap for 4 years and then 2.13M per year for another 6 years can’t be described as anything other than bad, especially when you consider how tight to the cap the Leafs have been and probably always will be.
To me a Rielly buy out is an option that should even be considered.
Bad is allowing him back on this team to cost the Leafs games.
Plan A is not a buy-out but they definitely save money by dumping him. And as the cap goes up in the future decade, that cap hit will mean less and less and less.
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Tkachuk has barely scored — and didn’t against us — and the team had no problem potting goals against our team, because we lost all the matchups or at best, came out evens, so our entire offense was nullified when the top 2 lines were shutdown.
Like it’s not as if this is a recent thing either: it’s been 8 years of this man. Way overdue for a change in the makeup of this team and it starts with saying goodbye to Marner. There is absolutely no way you can build a balanced team with that much allocated to so few players. So easy to shutdown and let your depth feast on our perennially weak bottom 6 that will always be at a disadvantage thanks to no money to spend on it. – Gravy
^ agree with all of this Gravy and also agree that taking a step back or just treding wather waiting for UFA’s (any of them including McJesus) is a huge risk and not one I’d be comfortable making. I feel like he will go back to the Oilers almost for certain at this point, back to back cup finals (even if they are terrible next year) likely will make him believe the Oilers can / are smart enough and have the ability to build around him and Dry Saddle to be a cup contender. A few years ago I’m not sure that was how he would have felt.
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Full admission that I know I’m guilty of this sometimes but I like to think/hope I only do this when I’m replying to a comment or replies that have been posted in the nature that you are talking about. The last reply I posted I had typed out and edited 3 times to try and avoid dragging the thread into a silly argument and more a discussion but I’m not sure if I’ll have success on that front or not.
So in short – sorry if it was me who has made you feel that way, the last thing I think the vast majority of the folks here want is to see this place take on what so many hate about that other place.
oh not talking about you.
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Tkachuk has barely scored — and didn’t against us — and the team had no problem potting goals against our team, because we lost all the matchups or at best, came out evens, so our entire offense was nullified when the top 2 lines were shutdown.
Like it’s not as if this is a recent thing either: it’s been 8 years of this man. Way overdue for a change in the makeup of this team and it starts with saying goodbye to Marner. There is absolutely no way you can build a balanced team with that much allocated to so few players. So easy to shutdown and let your depth feast on our perennially weak bottom 6 that will always be at a disadvantage thanks to no money to spend on it.
Wrong.
Tkachuk was instrumental in the Panthers “turning” their team around. That’s who they got for Huberdeau. That’s a factual error people are making by believing they can lose a 100 point player just because Florida did. The Leafs won’t be getting a Tkachuk if Marner walks. Tkachuk has 24, 22 and now 16 playoff points (with the Final still to be played) in the past 3 Final runs in exchange for Huberdeau. What player are the Leafs getting that can do that if Marner walks…? It’s a dream.
The Leafs 1st line was evenly matched against the Barkov line. The Leafs 2nd line got obliterated defensively. The Leafs 3rd and 4th line scored 0 goals and couldn’t be effective shutdown lines at all. The Panthers 3rd line feasted. Losing Marner loses you the top line match-up and if Tavares comes back you lose the 2nd line match-up again. You won’t beat Florida if your top-six get caved in and your 3rd and 4th lines are slightly better because Florida’s 3rd line still kills whatever make shift bullshit UFA signings you can muster when Bennett and Marchand stay in Florida.
Say goodbye to Rielly, who has been here the longest, and say goodbye to the stripped captain Tavares. That’s as big a DNA change as anything else. And they won’t be losing a Selke nominated 100 point player in his prime for NOTHING while they do it either.
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Wrong.
Tkachuk was instrumental in the Panthers “turning” their team around. That’s who they got for Huberdeau. That’s a factual error people are making by believing they can lose a 100 point player just because Florida did. The Leafs won’t be getting a Tkachuk if Marner walks. Tkachuk has 24, 22 and now 16 playoff points (with the Final still to be played) in the past 3 Final runs in exchange for Huberdeau. What player are the Leafs getting that can do that if Marner walks…? It’s a dream.
The Leafs 1st line was evenly matched against the Barkov line. The Leafs 2nd line got obliterated defensively. The Leafs 3rd and 4th line scored 0 goals and couldn’t be effective shutdown lines at all. The Panthers 3rd line feasted. Losing Marner loses you the top line match-up and if Tavares comes back you lose the 2nd line match-up again. You won’t beat Florida if your top-six get caved in and your 3rd and 4th lines are slightly better because Florida’s 3rd line still kills whatever make shift bullshit UFA signings you can muster when Bennett and Marchand stay in Florida.
Say goodbye to Rielly, who has been here the longest, and say goodbye to the stripped captain Tavares. That’s as big a DNA change as anything else. And they won’t be losing a Selke nominated 100 point player in his prime for NOTHING while they do it either.
I was talking about Tkachuk this year, against us.
Moving JT and Rielly doesn’t really change the DNA of the team at all, and if the 2nd line was getting caved in before, how is it not going to get caved in again with a bargain bin 2C, whoever that is going to be for the pocket lint we have leftover if Marner stays.
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Tkachuk has barely scored — and didn’t against us — and the team had no problem potting goals against our team, because we lost all the matchups or at best, came out evens, so our entire offense was nullified when the top 2 lines were shutdown.
true, the top lines were able to at least play evens, I think at 5v5 AM line may come out slightly ahead. but not enough to make up for the bottom getting crushed
I think Marner wants to see what UFA is like, really dont think he wants to come back now
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The 2026 UFA crop is much bigger than 97
Makar – No chance. Staying in Colorado on a mega deal. That’s why they got rid of Rantanen. They knew they needed the space to keep Makar. He’s from Calgary so, they might have a 5% chance.
Eichel – No chance. No reason to come to the Leafs. Staying in Vegas. More likely to go “home” to Boston than the Leafs.
Kaprizov – No chance. Minnesota is dead in the water without him. We already have one Nylander anyway.
Connor – No chance. Winnipeg is screwed without Connor. More likely to go “home” to Detroit than the Leafs.
Bobrovsky – No chance. Florida until he retires. Why would he ever consider leaving at 38+?
Panarin – No chance. 34+, why would you want him with his best years behind him?
Jenner – 50/50 chance. Better off getting him in a trade than letting him hit the market where he could get offered more like ROR in Nashville.
Lowry – No chance. Winnipeg captain, they’ll resign him.
OV – No chance. He’s 40, Capital for life. He has said he would like to play like a crazy market like Toronto or Montreal but at 40+, how much is he going to have left in the tank?
Trouba – No chance. More likely to go to go “home” to Detroit than the Leafs.
Carlson – No chance. 35+. Why would he leave Washington at this point? More likely to go “home” to Boston than the Leafs.
Laine – LOL
Kopitar – No chance, going to retire a King.
Kempe – No chance, Kings keep him 100%.
Demko – Leafs already have Woll, doubt he wants to be a back-up.
Stolarz – 50/50 chance he stays, depends if he becomes the “starter” or if he keeps getting injured.The rest of these guys aren’t needle movers. Bunch of depth guys…none of them make the Leafs an overnight contender.
Tuch
Oleksiak
Rasmoose
Marchment
Ferraro
Mikkola
SissonsAny many more……
The Leafs put themselves in this mess with UFA mistakes (Tavares). They won’t cure their disease with another dose of the disease.
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Tavares is a great human being. He’s a really nice guy. Dedicated. Good pro. But his teams lose playoff games because he’s not good enough where it matters.
When Berube says he wants Tavares back, he wants the person back. But the player, the stats have proven, is a loser. He’s too slow, he’s too shit defensively and offensively, vs Florida, he did nothing in 6 out of 7 games, including the PP which sucked.
“Saving” money with Tavares won’t make a damn difference when you have to spend the money you “saved” to make up for his obvious deficiencies. If they’re smart, they won’t take back Tavares unless he’s on a Corey Perry contract. Anything more than that is a self inflicted gunshot wound to the Leafs playoff success hopes.
When Tre and Berube sit down and look at the tape, when they investigate the reasons they lost the games they lost to the Panthers, they will see that Tavares was a problem and that Marner was the reason why they actually won games. And if they don’t, the team will fail. It’s that simple.
Oh so Berube saying he wants JT back 100% is really untrue but we are supposed to believe he loves every single part of Marner’s game top to bottom and when he said 100% THAT TIME he meant it but not the other time? lol Really?
If you are saying JT shouldn’t be back because he’s ‘a loser’ you have to acknowledge the same lack of success Marner has had at the NHL playoff level don’t you?
JT is slow, Marner is soft, JT was shitty offensively vs Florida, Marner was a VERY far cry from the 100 point player he was all season.
Marner had 1 goal in the entire series, went pointless in games 5 and 7 and was a -2 in both games and got a gravy assist on a shovel pass in game 6. If you want to talk about JT not performing in Florida that’s fine and true but let’s also acknowledge that Marner was not good either. Marner had 1 point in the last 4 games of the series, a series in which THEY BOTH sucked offensively.
You undervalue JT to a drastic degree for whatever reason – you can hate him that’s fine but pretending he only brings the value that a Corey Perry does to a team is just so far from the truth. JT on the open market would get 4 M or more from many teams – he’s not a 1M player.
If you want to talk about saving money to create a more balanced roster the move is obvious and likely the one that will happen, (much to your obvious displeasure) and Marner will walk and the Leafs will have 13M or more of cap space to use on creating that balance. The concept that they have to spend money to support JT or what you claim are his weaknesses is fine, Mitch Marner alone can’t bring success to this team so they would or will have to spend money to make that happen to overcome the things missing in his game (size, toughness to start) as well as a sniper to finish his passes. If you want to go down that path then you can say some of what the Leafs pay Matthews is for that exact reason.
Finally as far as ‘when’ Tre and Berube look at the tapes to try and figure out why they lost – you seriously don’t think they have done that already and Berube is saying he 100% wants JT back and will suddenly change his mind when he finally does so? You can’t possibly be serious on this.
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Oh so Berube saying he wants JT back 100% is really untrue but we are supposed to believe he loves every single part of Marner’s game top to bottom and when he said 100% THAT TIME he meant it but not the other time? lol Really?
Berube wants JT the person back. If he wants the player back, he’s an idiot. The stats don’t lie. Tavares was one of the biggest reasons they lost to Florida. Clear as day. He didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games and he was on the ice for the most EVGA. That is a garbage loser player at 34 years old who will not be getting better as he marches toward 40.
If you are saying JT shouldn’t be back because he’s ‘a loser’ you have to acknowledge the same lack of success Marner has had at the NHL playoff level don’t you?
Wrong again. JT has been through his prime. And yet Marner still has more career playoff points despite being 6/7 years younger. Marner hasn’t gone through his prime yet. Marner has the opportunity to show he’s better than what he has been. JT will only get worse from here.
JT is slow, Marner is soft, JT was shitty offensively vs Florida, Marner was a VERY far cry from the 100 point player he was all season.
Marner isn’t horrid in the defensive zone and clearly outscored Tavares. Still a PPG player even if it wasn’t his 100 point pace. Tavares became a 50 point pace and a minus player. With the easier match-up.
Marner had 1 goal in the entire series, went pointless in games 5 and 7 and was a -2 in both games and got a gravy assist on a shovel pass in game 6. If you want to talk about JT not performing in Florida that’s fine and true but let’s also acknowledge that Marner was not good either. Marner had 1 point in the last 4 games of the series, a series in which THEY BOTH sucked offensively.
Marner had a GAME WINNING GOAL. I’ll take the GWG over the 2 goals in a losing effort. Again, Tavares had 0 points in 6 out of 7 games. He sucked the bag the entire series except one game. That “1 point” was a primary assist on a GWG. So, again, Marner helped win TWO of the THREE games they beat Florida. How many did Tavares help win? NONE. Wake the fuck up to reality.
You undervalue JT to a drastic degree for whatever reason – you can hate him that’s fine but pretending he only brings the value that a Corey Perry does to a team is just so far from the truth. JT on the open market would get 4 to 4 M from many teams – he’s not a 1M player.
Undervalue? Tavares is a career loser. He’s never won a fucking thing in his NHL career. Not one award. Not one trophy. Not one Cup. Nothing. And he is past his prime. Considering him like Perry is still overvaluing what he brings because at least Perry was a winner. Tavares “came home” to be the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL and did what? Dick on a stick.
Tavares is only useful as a 1 million dollar player because his defense is so bad you need to spend another 5 million to help him break even. If some idiot team wants to give him more money, go ahead. Take him. Enjoy losing in the playoffs as Tavares has done his entire fucking career.
If you want to talk about saving money to create a more balanced roster the move is obvious and likely the one that will happen, (much to your obvious displeasure) and Marner will walk and the Leafs will have 13M or more of cap space to use on creating that balance. The concept that they have to spend money to support JT or what you claim are his weaknesses is fine, Mitch Marner alone can’t bring success to this team so they would or will have to spend money to make that happen to overcome the things missing in his game (size, toughness to start) as well as a sniper to finish his passes. If you want to go down that path then you can say some of what the Leafs pay Matthews is for that exact reason.
13 million in cap space and you still can’t name who is actually going to come to Toronto to be better than keeping Marner. Going to spend it on another garbage UFA like Tavares? Bennett and Marchand are staying right where they are (for good reason) and the Leafs will be left with scraps that will fair no better.
Finally as far as ‘when’ Tre and Berube look at the tapes to try and figure out why they lost – you seriously don’t think they have done that already and Berube is saying he 100% wants JT back and will suddenly change his mind when he finally does so? You can’t possibly be serious on this.
If this team brings back Tavares and Rielly and let’s Marner walk for nothing, enjoy the playoff failures while Marner wins a Cup like Kadri did. They’ll be well earned.
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We need to sign Toews and then get Kane as the Marner replacement. Kane may put up a decent season next to Matthews. Toews would be a fantastic, feel good story. What a inspiration it could be to all the struggling V-injured fans to see him make a comeback.
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We need to sign Toews and then get Kane as the Marner replacement. Kane may put up a decent season next to Matthews. Toews would be a fantastic, feel good story. What a inspiration it could be to all the struggling V-injured fans to see him make a comeback.
And in this scenario is JT still a leaf?
Are you envisioning AM, JT and the other/new JT as your 3 centres?
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Holy fuck I just give up and am disengaging trying to have a logical debate is clearly just not a worthwhile investment of time or effort.
Is it July yet so we can all shift to talking about if letting Marner walk / or re-signing him was the right or wrong move?
IF Marner goes I guess we really won’t know if it was the right move until we see what Tre does with the cap space and that might be this year but it also may not be this year (to someone else’s point – Fake maybe?) Tre may just look to snag some players on 1 year deals with the extra $ if he doesn’t like what’s available or the prices this summer and wait for the TDL or next year. Well except for sure 2 people who we all know will proclaim loudly and repeatedly that it was the wrong move, the worst move, just the dumbest thing anyone could every do in the history of mankind! lol
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Berube wants JT the person back. If he wants the player back, he’s an idiot. The stats don’t lie. Tavares was one of the biggest reasons they lost to Florida. Clear as day. He didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games and he was on the ice for the most EVGA. That is a garbage loser player at 34 years old who will not be getting better as he marches toward 40.
Tavares was on for one more EVGA than Marner. JT was -3 and Marner was -1; Marner wants $13.5m and JT is in the realm of $5m.
Here’s the thing – there’s not a single Leaf fan that wasn’t secretly hoping that Mitch Marner would finally – FINALLY – show up in the playoffs and be THE guy. Take charge. Own the ice. Own some shifts single-handedly – because at the amount he wants to paid, he should. And yeah, just ‘cos you might be thinking it – we have seen Matthews do it in the playoffs – like last year against Boston, before McAvoy pitch-forked his head into the ice giving him a concussion. But we didn’t and still haven’t seen Marner strap the team to his back when they need it.
We haven’t seen that from any of them at crucial times. Matthews get a pass this year due to injury. Tavares gets a pass due to age and his new contract demands. I don’t expect my $5m guy to do that. Nylander doesn’t get a pass. He vanished and sucked – and was the passenger – at the end of the Florida series. At this point I’m resigned to the facts that Marner wants to leave, Nylander doesn’t – so all the pretend fabrications of moving one guy and keeping the other – just so you can VASTLY overpay someone is just plain mismanagement.
Will we miss Marner? At times, yes. But not likely in the playoffs.
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Tavares was on for one more EVGA than Marner. JT was -3 and Marner was -1; Marner wants $13.5m and JT is in the realm of $5m.
Again, you should know better the level of competition Marner was tasked with. Florida’s top line was mostly kept in check with Marner and Matthews on the ice against them. Had that been Tavares, he would have probably been -10. Marner also scored 13 playoff points to Tavares’ 7. Marner had a GWG and a primary assist on a GWG against Florida. He’s 28. Tavares is 34 going on 35. That difference in money being spent is warranted because Marner is entering his prime while Tavares is entering his wheelchair years which means whatever money you “save” is spent on making sure he’s less of a liability. Was Tavares 7th in Selke voting? No, he wasn’t. He never has been. He never will be. Does Tavares kill penalties? No, he doesn’t. This idea of savings is basically admitting you want inferior players on the team as long as it saves you money to pay for more inferior players.
Here’s the thing – there’s not a single Leaf fan that wasn’t secretly hoping that Mitch Marner would finally – FINALLY – show up in the playoffs and be THE guy. Take charge. Own the ice. Own some shifts single-handedly – because at the amount he wants to paid, he should. And yeah, just ‘cos you might be thinking it – we have seen Matthews do it in the playoffs – like last year against Boston, before McAvoy pitch-forked his head into the ice giving him a concussion. But we didn’t and still haven’t seen Marner strap the team to his back when they need it.
He won games. He had more playoff points than Matthews. Led the team in scoring even without a 100% Matthews. Marner did show up and did his part. He’s not McDavid, no but he’s not the problem here as it’s been proven time and time again. And losing him for nothing won’t make things better either. Clearly, this will not be addition by subtraction. This is a straight subtraction of talent.
We haven’t seen that from any of them at crucial times. Matthews get a pass this year due to injury. Tavares gets a pass due to age and his new contract demands. I don’t expect my $5m guy to do that. Nylander doesn’t get a pass. He vanished and sucked – and was the passenger – at the end of the Florida series. At this point I’m resigned to the facts that Marner wants to leave, Nylander doesn’t – so all the pretend fabrications of moving one guy and keeping the other – just so you can VASTLY overpay someone is just plain mismanagement.
What’s Matthews’ excuse all the other years he didn’t show up? He was busy shitting his pants last year too, right? I wonder what excuse he will have next playoffs without an elite passer feeding him the puck all year and on the PP.
Rielly gets a pass too? How many passes does he get? Or does he give them away like he does on the ice?
You are correct, Nylander disappeared from Game 4-7. If Marner walks it’s because they pushed him out the door while making excuses for everybody else. Why? Because they need him to take a discount while they overpay everybody else? Because they need cap space to sign more defensively dog shit passengers?
Will we miss Marner? At times, yes. But not likely in the playoffs.
Factually incorrect. Which is rare for you. He directly helped win 2 of the 3 games they won against Florida. More career playoff points than Matthews, Nylander and Tavares. When Florida puts the band back together, the Leafs will not have Marner, Bennett, Marchand or anybody else that will make that kind of positive difference. Florida will mop the floor with them again as losing your best players for nothing has consequences of losing in the playoffs. And Marner will win, just like Kadri, somewhere else.
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I was talking about Tkachuk this year, against us.
So Tkachuk is allowed to score 0 goals but he’s still considered a playoff God but Marner, scores a GWG, primary assist on another GWG and he should be let go for NOTHING in return? Excellent logic.
Moving JT and Rielly doesn’t really change the DNA of the team at all
It absolutely does. For starters, it saves you 12.5 million in cap space to get rid of the FORMER captain and longest serving Leafs defender (who can’t defend). Secondly, it removes the two worst defensive players on the team who cost you important games. Thirdly, it allows you to spend money on the “depth” you are so desperate to sign via free agents.
and if the 2nd line was getting caved in before, how is it not going to get caved in again with a bargain bin 2C, whoever that is going to be for the pocket lint we have leftover if Marner stays.
Add to the list of garbage players, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson and McMann and you have the opportunity to make trades. Those trades, if done shrewdly with the correct teams and left over draft picks (Leafs won’t do jack shit with them anyway but trade them away later) and you can bring in what you need: Jenner and McBain. Two solid two-way centers that will both make between 3-4 AAV each.
Uggie keeps going on and on about the top line, and yeah, they were evens, but THE REASON WHY THE OTHER LINES SUCKED IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING MONEY TO SPEND ON THEM.
And that money was wasted on Tavares, Rielly, Kampf and Jarnkrok. Cap goes up 7 million. Rielly makes 7.5. Tavares wants a “discount” 5. Kampf and Jarnkrok also make about 5 combined.
That’s a lot of money spent on a lot of garbage players who actively lost you more games than they helped win vs. Florida.
Rough math says that’s 24.5 million to spend on whatever depth you can find, not to mention what you can get back in return for trades.
Go look at successful teams: they spend more than a 50% Groupon coupon for their 3rd lines.
Go look at teams who have left 100 point players LEAVE FOR NOTHING and see how well they recovered after taking that money and spending it on spare parts and leftovers.
No matter how much you people want to beat the drums of “saving 13.5 AAV to spend on better playoff warriors” you can’t name the players that will actually want to play in Toronto without being grossly overpaid. If it took the 2nd highest salary in the NHL to get Tavares to sign in Toronto only to waste 7 years of our cap space with futility, just imagine how much they’d have to overpay Bennett and Marchand to leave better weather, lower taxes, a better team and zero pressure.
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Uggle Buggle, you let JT walk, now you need a 2C.
You now have to move Kampf and find a taker for him, and probably have to eat cap to do that and add a sweetener; Rielly has a full NMC and very likely is going to say no to any trade except maybe Vancouver, and we’ll have to eat salary as well to do that, or take a cap dump in return. Marner is very likely walking anyways, so are you just armchair GM circle-jerking like usual, or do you want to actually talk about realistic moves? I know that’s difficult for you, the air is foul in your mom’s basement what with her corpse rotting in the next room.
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Bennett gets away with everything. And of course Marchand scores on the PP that shouldn’t have happened.
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Bennett gets away with everything. And of course Marchand scores on the PP that shouldn’t have happened.
~fifty mission capNot only am I cheering for Edmonton, but I have no reason to be cheering for anything Bennett does.
I see that play as a battle in front of the net, Bennett goes to glide back to the far post and trips over Walman’s leg and ends up in the crease. As much as I’d love for that to be called back – you can’t. There’s just not enough there. It was a bad challenge based on what we all know of the NHL.
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Not only am I cheering for Edmonton, but I have no reason to be cheering for anything Bennett does.
I see that play as a battle in front of the net, Bennett goes to glide back to the far post and trips over Walman’s leg and ends up in the crease. As much as I’d love for that to be called back – you can’t. There’s just not enough there. It was a bad challenge based on what we all know of the NHL.
Agreed bad challenge but when they showed the replay looked like it was Kukak with a mini slew foot that caused the issue / fall but Bennett took full advantage and made sure he fell into Skinner.
And now it’s 3-1. Jesus Edmonton figure it out and smarten up.
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So after 60 minutes does anyone really think the Leafs as constructed this year are seriously in the same echelon as either of these teams?
I don’t at all and it just again makes it clear to me that the Leafs need to part ways with one of the biggest 3 contracts they have or will have if Marner is re-signed to allow them to get a better balanced roster.
Losing JT or taking a hit to get rid of Reilly isn’t nearly enough change. Neither is replacing bottom 6 players with new bottom six players with the money they would have without the current bottom 6.
Both Florida and Edmonton have the balance that is needed to win the cup. Toronto just doesn’t currently.
And Edmonton is right there without Hyman even!
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In fairness, Cush, Florida needed 7 games to dispatch us after KOing our #1 in game 1. Things could have been very different.
The Oilers have dragged Florida to OT, but it’s only one game. Let’s see how things play out.
i don’t think the Florida team the Leafs faced in games 1 or 2 was who they are at all – for sure not Bob anyway. So if you back out those games the Leafs were outplayed in 4 of 5.
I don’t know I just don’t see the Leafs beating either of these teams – at least not if this level of play is what the series stays at but to the point you are making it’s game 1 so who knows what the next games will be like.
I just see 2 deep and balanced teams and Toronto isn’t balanced to the same degree or anywhere close to it.
I want Kappy to score the winner and he almost did.
Go former Leaf Go!
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Bennett gets away with everything. And of course Marchand scores on the PP that shouldn’t have happened.
You know that if he and Marchand, by some miracle, played for the Leafs, all the shit they get away with would instantly be called every single time.
I think back to Game 3, Leafs had a PP and Marner got hit very late. Nothing. No call. No 5 on 3.
With the way Bennett and Marchand play, they’d get run out of town like Kadri after enough penalties / suspensions.
Uggle Buggle, you let JT walk, now you need a 2C.
Agreed. Would rather trade for Jenner and/or McBain. At least that way you can guarantee you have a gritty, rough, tough player in his prime, under 5 million who can actually play in all 3 zones. You also sign Rielly Smith who is a playoff performer and actual two-way winger. In that scenario, Nylander can be a defensive lazy fuck and still get away with it. In other scenarios, where Tavares and Nylander are still playing together, they are minus and you lose the series like they did against Florida.
You now have to move Kampf and find a taker for him, and probably have to eat cap to do that and add a sweetener;
Not true. Salary cap floor is 70 million this year. There are A LOT of teams that would happily take a plug just to fill salary and a roster spot. Same goes for Jarnkrok. Both Kampf and Jarnkrok are NHL players. They can both fill a spot on a team fighting for the playoffs and score 10-15 goals and eat up 15 min a game. They just can’t be on a team that hopes to win a Stanley Cup. Teams like Columbus or Utah would happily take these guys.
Rielly has a full NMC and very likely is going to say no to any trade except maybe Vancouver, and we’ll have to eat salary as well to do that, or take a cap dump in return.
Vancouver or Seattle. Blueger and Tyler Myers from Vancouver. Or Oleksiak and Tye Kartye from Seattle. Done deal. Next.
If salary retention is a must, I refer to my previous point that the cap floor is 70 million. There’s plenty of teams that would facilitate retaining salary to reach the cap floor. 3-way deals happen every year to reduce salary. Nothing new or complicated about it.
Team upgraded, full of tough, two-way, North-South, Toronto boys with slight hometown discount bargains.
Knies @ 7×3 | Matthews | Marner @ 13.16×8
R. Smith @ 4.25×3 | Jenner @ 3.75×1 | Nylander
Domi | McBain @ 3.5×3 | B. Tanev @ 1.75×2 (or Corey Perry)
Laughton | Blueger @ 1.8×1 | Lorentz @ 1×1
Comtois @ 850 (or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns @ 2×1* | Carlo
Benoit*(if he doesn’t retire, hometown guy because he’s from Barrie. Could be the ultimate utility player as both a 7th D and a 13th forward.)
Woll | Stolarz
Marner is very likely walking anyways, so are you just armchair GM circle-jerking like usual, or do you want to actually talk about realistic moves?
And the Leafs are very likely never winning a Stanley Cup with retards running this team. But you’re still going to circle jerk yourself while you watch them.
You want realistic? Realistic is Marner is walking because management is inept, Bennett and Marchand are staying in Florida and the Leafs are absolutely fucked. There’s your reality.
I know that’s difficult for you, the air is foul in your mom’s basement what with her corpse rotting in the next room.
Personal attacks because you can’t deal with the actual argument. Nothing new but just as pathetic.
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The Leafs are not as good as Florida and Edmonton and you are absolutely correct about first two games.
Taking Panthers to game seven should not fool anyone.The Leafs took the Panthers to Game 7, you can’t take that away from them. It wasn’t pretty but nobody else gave them a better challenge. This Leafs team was and is still flawed. But it’s closer than anybody else. And to throw that away instead of build upon it would be stupid. All it would take is for Bob to act his age at 37 or fatigue from 3 long Cup runs or a major injury, and this Leafs team, with the correct improvements (remove Tavares, Rielly, Jarnkrok, Kampf etc.) and they can go further than they ever have before.
This Edmonton team would still be choking like the Leafs if it wasn’t for their head coach. Granted, Kris Knoblauch has the benefit of having the best player on the planet on his team but the way the whole team plays as a relentless unit behind him, with a bunch of no-name players for the most part lower in the line-up, really shaky blueline and a shoddy Skinner (whom he pulled and only put back in because Pickard got injured), is a wonder to watch. They’re up 1-0 early in the series so far and who knows if they will win the Cup but Kris Knoblauch deserves some major credit for the massive turn around this team has had since he took over. Full credit to him win or lose.
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It may not matter if we “change the DNA” around our core players because our core players simply do not elevate their game the way they do on Florida and Edmonton.
How many shifts do you think Maurice matches 3C Lindell on McJesus? I’m betting ZERO. It’ll be all Barkov. Just remember that Maurice did match Lindell against Matthews and he was able to shut his ass down.
When your stars cannot dominate another team’s 3rd line, you’re simply not winning.
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It may not matter if we “change the DNA” around our core players because our core players simply do not elevate their game the way they do on Florida and Edmonton.
How many shifts do you think Maurice matches 3C Lindell on McJesus? I’m betting ZERO. It’ll be all Barkov. Just remember that Maurice did match Lindell against Matthews and he was able to shut his ass down.
When your stars cannot dominate another team’s 3rd line, you’re simply not winning.
If we let Marner and JT walk, that’s 2 of 4 gone. Not sure we get as much value back trying to replace JT though. Would rather keep him at an actual hometown discount and add another 2C.
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If we let Marner and JT walk, that’s 2 of 4 gone. Not sure we get as much value back trying to replace JT though. Would rather keep him at an actual hometown discount and add another 2C.
~gravyface
Ultimately, to me, it’s about value. Now I don’t care if people agree with Dom Luszczyszyn’s financial models, per se. There’s room to argue in there, but what it does is set a baseline for what value is.
It suggests that Marner outperformed his $10.9m contract by providing $12m in value. Since I think ALL of Dom’s valuations are too high by around 15%, I think Marner probably was providing closer to $10m in value – which feels about right, because those who favour him have no problem with him getting north of $12.5m and those who don’t like him think that $8m is about right.
It also suggests that Tavares is worth about $9m.
Using that 15% concept, if you’re not getting Marner for around $11m, you’re overpaying him anyway. If you’re getting Tavares for less than $7.5m, you’re probably getting value.
Resigning a good player who wants to take a significant pay cut to stay seems like a no-brainer to me.
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My gawd the leagues has ruined any momentum they had for the finals with the long break and the upcoming schedule is even worse.
Next game tomorrow, ok good thats normal.
Game 3 Monday? WTF
Game 4 Thursday? Jesus
Game 5 Saturday – ok back to normal
Game 6 Tuesday 17th – Jesus
Game 7 on JUNE 20th!!!! WTF..I get the NBA finals are on…but gimme a break
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My gawd the leagues has ruined any momentum they had for the finals with the long break and the upcoming schedule is even worse.
Next game tomorrow, ok good thats normal.
Game 3 Monday? WTF
Game 4 Thursday? Jesus
Game 5 Saturday – ok back to normal
Game 6 Tuesday 17th – Jesus
Game 7 on JUNE 20th!!!! WTF..I get the NBA finals are on…but gimme a break
Agreed and I know there are other considerations like if the applicable rinks have other stuff booked like concerts but this is just dumb, especially if they are really trying to ‘grow the sport’ in the US.The long gaps between games just give casual fans the chance to forget it and the drama etc.
Not shocking from the NHL who aside from having one of if not the greatest sport on earth as their product can’t get out of their own way and as a result or the joke of the bigger pro sports leagues.
Shitty scheduling, not nearly enough marketing, officiating that is just insanely puzzling to even a life long fan, Supplementary discipline processes and results that make zero sense, teams in markets they shouldn’t be while markets who would thrive go without, a terrible hard cap system that forces the anchor franchises to essentially keep the shitty, terrible ones afloat, no equalization with respect to taxes and the inequity that tax situations create, etc. etc. etc.
Imagine if the people who run say the NFL top to bottom ran the NHL? I think the NFL is the gold standard.
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I left my horse out in the rain, but thankfully I remembered to store all of the tack in the barn.
You might say I have a DRY SADDLE.
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I left my horse out in the rain, but thankfully I remembered to store all of the tack in the barn.
You might say I have a DRY SADDLE.-PDO Speedwagon
bahahaha good one.
On a semi-serious note anyone suggesting Marner is anywhere near worth what Dry Saddle is must be smoking some serious crack.
Watching Mc David and Dry Saddle and comparing them to Matthews and Marner is simply looking at ‘how it should be done’ vs ‘how it doesn’t get done’.
Maybe a Matthews / Willy combo would work better – it would be more like Dry Saddle and McJesus if you think about it. Marner rarely shoots and has an absolute muffin of a shot when he does but Willy can snipe with the best in the league and is a very underrated playmaker. Matthews is an excellent playmaker and as we know an incredible sniper (when healthy).
I hope once Marner is gone AM and WN are put together and we can see.
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But, I’m cheering for Florida. Is my MVP award revoked?!?! – MVP Whipper
No but it’s under protest for you cheering for a Marchand cup win.
I want to see that rat cry, same for Tkachuk and Bennett. Fuck Florida they got their cup they can go sit on the beach and have sand crabs to bite them right in the pee hole for all I care about them. lol
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It suggests that Marner outperformed his $10.9m contract by providing $12m in value. Since I think ALL of Dom’s valuations are too high by around 15%, I think Marner probably was providing closer to $10m in value – which feels about right, because those who favour him have no problem with him getting north of $12.5m and those who don’t like him think that $8m is about right.
I’ve never been a fan of Dom’s model and I think you’re right about him over/under evaluating players by a margin.
If you only consider regular season success, I think Marner was paid close to what he brought to the table. Tavares was clearly overpaid but still produced enough to be considered a success as far as UFA signing goes.
It truly is the playoffs results that make these numbers don’t work as you cannot pay these salaries to player and never see them take over a game and give you a chance to win it all. The only player that did it on the Leafs was Nylander but it was also followed by disappearing acts at other times…. where a show of force from Matthews or Marner would have made the difference, probably.
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They’ve had nine years to mix and match this core. The combinations don’t matter – these players simply do not elevate. It’s a personality and character thing, not a talent and chemistry thing.
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They’ve had nine years to mix and match this core. The combinations don’t matter – these players simply do not elevate. It’s a personality and character thing, not a talent and chemistry thing. -FIDDYCENT
Your not wrong on the first point at all and I fear you may not be on the other 2 but they are stuck with what they have to some degree so I’d like to at least see them cross off the next thing they haven’t tried enough of to see (confirm if you view the glass half empty) that it doesn’t change things.
Marner will likely be gone so maybe this change + new blood can turn the ship enough to miss the iceberg of having all this talent for all these years and jack shit to show for it.
#beleaf?
lol
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Maybe a Matthews / Willy combo would work better – it would be more like Dry Saddle and McJesus
Oh for Christ sake, it wouldnt be like that at all. Watch the games.
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Maybe a Matthews / Willy combo would work better – it would be more like Dry Saddle and McJesus
Oh for Christ sake, it wouldnt be like that at all. Watch the games.
Just calm your tits, you disagree with me which is fine but you don’t have to be an absolute twat about it.
That being said I probably shouldn’t be surprised considering you are the type of person to open an account here using someone else’s user name from the other place just to be a knob.
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My gawd the leagues has ruined any momentum they had for the finals with the long break and the upcoming schedule is even worse.
Next game tomorrow, ok good thats normal.
Game 3 Monday? WTF
Game 4 Thursday? Jesus
Game 5 Saturday – ok back to normal
Game 6 Tuesday 17th – Jesus
Game 7 on JUNE 20th!!!! WTF..I get the NBA finals are on…but gimme a break
~fakeI said the same thing to myself. Like 3 weeks. Talk about milking the cow.
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For the record, for many years in Edmonton some have wanted Drai run out of town for lazy backchecks and defensive play, much like some say about Slick Willy.
You don’t hear anyone slagging Drai these days. Just saying…
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What I ordered : McJesus and DrySaddle
What I got : Matthews and Marner
Seriously though, the Leafs have never been able to roll four lines during the Core Four era. This roster is still very top heavy. If you shut down the Leafs top two lines, then they have nothing to answer with. Look at recent Cup winners: Tampa, Florida, Colorado, Vegas. None of them were nearly as top heavy as the Leafs. I mean, Marchand is on the third line in Florida.
And this lack of depth was true even with Marner in the lineup.
Subtract Marner and add two or three scrubs and the problem remains.
I hope Tree has a few tricks to pull out of his hat.
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What I ordered : McJesus and DrySaddle
What I got : Matthews and Marner
Seriously though, the Leafs have never been able to roll four lines during the Core Four era. This roster is still very top heavy. If you shut down the Leafs top two lines, then they have nothing to answer with. Look at recent Cup winners: Tampa, Florida, Colorado, Vegas. None of them were nearly as top heavy as the Leafs. I mean, Marchand is on the third line in Florida.
And this lack of depth was true even with Marner in the lineup.
Subtract Marner and add two or three scrubs and the problem remains.
I hope Tree has a few tricks to pull out of his hat.
They have enough cap space to get some quality players, even with JT resigned as a hometown discount. But it really depends on what they want to do, and how far they want to go with matchup lines. There are other center options out there, more two-way guys, but goal-scoring might be a problem. JT could very well score another 30+ goals next year; hard to replace that.
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They have enough cap space to get some quality players, even with JT resigned as a hometown discount. But it really depends on what they want to do, and how far they want to go with matchup lines. There are other center options out there, more two-way guys, but goal-scoring might be a problem. JT could very well score another 30+ goals next year; hard to replace that. – Gravy
They might grab a lower or middle tier free agent or two, but bringing in a top tier talent is probably going to involve a trade. Given the Leafs track record with trades and their current relations with other GM’s, I wouldn’t expect to pull off a case of highway robbery, but maybe Tree can get creative with three-way trades, retention, etc.
I’d like to see the following :
1) Marner stays for $11m or $12m. (very very very unlikely)
2) Marner does a sign and trade allowing the Leafs to recoup some assets (again, not very likely).
3) Weaponize the free space if Marner walks, but don’t be stupid with it. Don’t go throwing term at dudes on the wrong side of 30 unless an eventual trip to Robidas Island is part of the plan (ala the Gourde contract). Also, don’t shoot your wad on a guy like Ehlers. Who does this leave? Probably guys like Gavikrov, Beauvillier, Fabro, Tanev, and maybe take a flier on a project like Drouin or Patty Kane if the price is cheap.
4) Jesus Fucking Christ, we gotta do something about Rielly. If he’s coked out, put him in rehab and bury his caphit. If he refuses a trade, then redeploy him as a second pairing guy and go after someone like Provorov. Leafs need another top pair D guy. It won’t come cheap. Maybe use some of the Marner cap space. Also, minor tip here – chatter is that Tampa is cutting bait with Nick Perbix. He’s actually a solid 3rd pair guy who will come cheap. I’d snag him if he leaves Tampa (just for depth).
5) Blockbuster trade that brings in an elite centerman or winger to replace Marner. I’ll hold my breath on this one, but I’m giving Tree a chance here to blow us away with something unforseen and off the board.
I think Berube could make Marner and the “DNA” improve if the right pieces are brought in to compliment him,as Uggie keeps going on about. He’s not wrong about that. But, who is actually available right now? I don’t want to hear Bennett or Marchand. The first is a dirty piece of shit that wouldn’t come to TO unless he’s grossly overpaid, and the other is a bionic geezer piece of shit who is definitely on the wrong side of the aging curve to throw term at.
Realistically, having said all of the rambling shit above, unless Matthews goes Super Saiyan next year and puts the team on his back, the Leafs are going to take a step back without Marner.
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you disagree with me which is fine but you don’t have to be an absolute twat about it – Conversation_Killer29
Thats rich coming from you who acts like this daily. Your tired act of playing the smartass and trolling not one but two sites now looking for fights is growing old.
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Hey Big23Questions – you want me to send you some pee in a jar? Sweat in a jar? Nail clippings or hair? You absolute clown. How obsessed and pathetic do you need to be to take on someone’s online hockey forum handle? You shit show of a woman. Your dad must be proud…though I suspect I know who you are. That person doesn’t have a dad.
#yousmokedick
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you disagree with me which is fine but you don’t have to be an absolute twat about it – Conversation_Killer29
Thats rich coming from you who acts like this daily. Your tired act of playing the smartass and trolling not one but two sites now looking for fights is growing old.
– Not 23 Questions
I notice you didn’t address his second point.
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you disagree with me which is fine but you don’t have to be an absolute twat about it – Conversation_Killer29
Thats rich coming from you who acts like this daily. Your tired act of playing the smartass and trolling not one but two sites now looking for fights is growing old.- Impostertwat23
LMAO yes trolling for fights that’s what I do here and there non-stop.
You are starting to sound like a 3 headed loser of a poster with the whining and constant playing of the victim card when instigating or the other stain on this place who just wants to argue with everyone about every and anything.
Maybe you hit your head and forgot but I posted an opinion and added to a hockey based conversation to which you went full twat waffle and replied in a condescending way and told me to ‘watch the games’, but sure I’m the one looking for fights and trolling.
Sorry to hear you find my ‘act’ tired or old – might be time for you to consider taking a nap.
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LMAO yes trolling for fights that’s what I do here and there non-stop. At least you can admit it
You are starting to sound like a 3 headed loser of a poster with the whining and constant playing of the victim card when instigating. You`re projecting. You want everyone to be AA so badly. Obsessed much?
Maybe you hit your head and forgot but I posted an opinion and added to a hockey based conversation to which you went full twat waffle and replied in a condescending way and told me to ‘watch the games’, but sure I’m the one looking for fights and trolling. A poorly worded run on sentence combined with a meltdown. Yep that checks out.
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LMAO yes trolling for fights that’s what I do here and there non-stop. At least you can admit it
You are starting to sound like a 3 headed loser of a poster with the whining and constant playing of the victim card when instigating. You`re projecting. You want everyone to be AA so badly. Obsessed much?
Maybe you hit your head and forgot but I posted an opinion and added to a hockey based conversation to which you went full twat waffle and replied in a condescending way and told me to ‘watch the games’, but sure I’m the one looking for fights and trolling. A poorly worded run on sentence combined with a meltdown. Yep that checks out. BIG23QUESTIONS IMPOSTER AND CHIEF TWAT WAFFLE
Thanks for proving my point about who is trolling looking for fights, you really showed us all how truly brilliant you are.
You can consider yourself dismissed, I’m done engaging with you now.
Good luck on finding someone new to start a fight with I see you are already trying so I’ll give you credit for being relentless in your constant pursuit of idiocy.
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I can only imagine how a large swath of Leafs fans would react to that. The Marner hate would be next level.
I doubt it happens. Even from Carolina’s standpoint, what they need to be better than the Panthers isn’t Marner.
If I had a 2$ to bet on a destination, it would be the Kings. They’ve been looking to add some scoring, they’ll have the cap space and Marner would probably be a big help for Byfield to take the next step and become their bondafide star centre.
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I doubt it happens. Even from Carolina’s standpoint, what they need to be better than the Panthers isn’t Marner.
If I had a 2$ to bet on a destination, it would be the Kings. They’ve been looking to add some scoring, they’ll have the cap space and Marner would probably be a big help for Byfield to take the next step and become their bondafide star centre.- Scabby
LA would be a good fit but if Mitch is worried about another car jacking not sure he wants to go to LA…..lol
I read Chicago to be the Batman to Bedard too.
If (when) he goes somewhere he will be a nice add for that team, I am very interested in seeing what it costs said team.
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Hey Big23Questions – you want me to send you some pee in a jar? Sweat in a jar? Nail clippings or hair? You absolute clown. How obsessed and pathetic do you need to be to take on someone’s online hockey forum handle? You shit show of a woman. Your dad must be proud…though I suspect I know who you are. That person doesn’t have a dad.
#yousmokedickok this site is getting good lololololo????
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4) Jesus Fucking Christ, we gotta do something about Rielly. If he’s coked out, put him in rehab and bury his caphit. If he refuses a trade, then redeploy him as a second pairing guy and go after someone like Provorov. Leafs need another top pair D guy. It won’t come cheap. Maybe use some of the Marner cap space. Also, minor tip here – chatter is that Tampa is cutting bait with Nick Perbix. He’s actually a solid 3rd pair guy who will come cheap. I’d snag him if he leaves Tampa (just for depth).
~PDFIf the rumors aren’t true, and Rielly ISN’T addicted to coke, maybe someone should GET him addicted so we can force him into rehab and bury his cap hit.
4D chess.
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They might grab a lower or middle tier free agent or two, but bringing in a top tier talent is probably going to involve a trade. Given the Leafs track record with trades and their current relations with other GM’s, I wouldn’t expect to pull off a case of highway robbery, but maybe Tree can get creative with three-way trades, retention, etc.
The Leafs don’t need highway robbery, but they do need to “win” a trade or at least make a solid trade that improves the team.
I’d like to see the following :
1) Marner stays for $11m or $12m. (very very very unlikely)
Marner has the misfortune of having to pay taxes in Canada. That means he will take home significantly less money than his cap hit will suggest he makes. The NHL has no will to change it any time soon either.
Rantanen makes 12 AAV in Dallas which means he actually takes home 7,601,813. For Marner to make the exact same amount, he’d have to have a cap hit of 16.4 AAV to take home 7,664,895. Everybody needs to stop and think about that for a second. That’s how bad the taxes fuck over the Leafs trying to sign players who negotiate based on what they’re taking home. So if Marner is asking for 13 AAV, in reality he is only taking home 6,084,445 for 8 years and a total of 48.6 million dollars. When compared to the 7,601,813 per year Rantanen takes home, it’s actually fair value. The fair compromise for both sides is 13.16 x 8 and Marner is actually taking a discount just nobody is realizing it.
If Utah were to give him 13 AAV, he would take home 7,640,313 per year for 7 years which totals 53.4 million dollars.
In Vegas (an immediate Cup contender), he would take home 8,231,813 for 7 years totals 57.6 million dollars.
Which means, if Utah or Vegas offered him 11 AAV, he’d still make more money, with a lower cap hit, playing for Utah or Vegas than he would for the Leafs at 13 million AAV.This IS NOT a matter of greed. Marner could be leaving anywhere between 5-10 million dollars on the table to play for the Leafs at that price. He’s not negotiating for nickels and dimes in difference.
2) Marner does a sign and trade allowing the Leafs to recoup some assets (again, not very likely).
Marner has taken a 6 year deal before, Matthews took a 4 year deal. I don’t think the extra year matters to Marner if he’s decided to test UFA status because the sooner he can be a UFA again, the better it is for him. If he’s gone, he’s gone. The Leafs get and deserve nothing for their horrible mismanagement.
3) Weaponize the free space if Marner walks, but don’t be stupid with it. Don’t go throwing term at dudes on the wrong side of 30 unless an eventual trip to Robidas Island is part of the plan (ala the Gourde contract). Also, don’t shoot your wad on a guy like Ehlers. Who does this leave? Probably guys like Gavikrov, Beauvillier, Fabro, Tanev, and maybe take a flier on a project like Drouin or Patty Kane if the price is cheap.
The UFA market is not there to be weaponized. The last time the Leafs “weaponized” the UFA market, they got fucked in the ass with Tavares. The UFA market has nothing to offer the Leafs except complimentary pieces. And those complimentary pieces would only help the Leafs if they kept their leading point producer, not to try and replace him. Let’s go one by one through what would be top-six forwards “UFA list” and give you the reasons why the majority on this list are either garbage, not better or won’t sign with the Leafs.
Boeser is horrid. -25 player who deserves his -25. He was a 50 point player last year, only made the playoffs twice in his career. This guy is like a less athletic, Value Village Kessel.
Ehlers, not leaving Winnipeg, soft as baby shit, not a playoff performer, not a 100 point, Selke nominee, PKer. Most of his playoff runs ended with 0 goals. This guy is Value Village Nylander.
Tavares. Is. Garbage. 7 years of his prime, he can’t skate, he can’t defend and he didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games against the Panthers. This guy was the definition of bad DNA. Show him the door.
Duchene. Value Village Tavares. Horrid defensively, can’t score 5v5. Basically a PP weapon who can’t play in any other situation. Cheap but ineffective.
Nelson, very good size, good player staying in Colorado, has no reason to play in Toronto (from Minnesota) unless you massively overpay him. And he’s 33. Not going to be a “prime years” contract. Usually a 50 point player most of his career. 0 playoff goals in 7 games for Colorado this year. ZERO.
Giroux, not leaving Ottawa, hasn’t been a 100 point player in 7 years. Basically another 50 point guy on the wrong side of 37. Hasn’t been a playoff performer since 2012.
Palmieri, off the market. Also, 34 anyway…
Drouin has 1 playoff goal in his last 20 playoff games and he had the benefit of playing with MacKinnon. If he knows what’s good for him, he’ll stay in Colorado and continue being a passenger over there.
Suter, is better than Malgin, I’ll give him that but still, 2 playoff goals in 13 career playoff games? Don’t see this guy moving the needle that much.
Granlund, good player but 32, why would he leave all his Finnish buddies in Dallas after going so deep this year?
Benn is washed, from BC, no reason to come to the Leafs. Probably just stays in Dallas for 1 year, 1 million dollar deals.
Kuzmenko, one year wonder, completely unreliable.
Donato, from Boston, why would he don’t see why he wouldn’t go back to Chicago / Boston unless you overpaid him. 0 playoff goals in 19 playoff games.
Roslovic, from Ohio, don’t see why he’d leave Carolina or come to Toronto unless you overpaid him. 3 career playoff goals in 45 games. Already have enough Jarnkroks and Kampfs. Don’t need another.
Mangiapane, 5’10”, 14 goals, 28 points. This guy can’t replace Marner except if it’s in a police line-up for the height and weight. If he takes a super cheap contract, he’s worth a shot but probably not a legit top-six threat in the playoffs as his career playoff numbers are unimpressive. 7 playoff goals, 14 points in 37 games.
The complimentary players need to be acquired via trade. You can get some of them by exchanging Jarnkrok, Kampf, McMann and Robertson. Between those 4 guys, you can get enough capital to flip for McBain and Jenner, if not directly. Draft picks be damned, the Leafs will trade them all later anyway. Any prospect except Cowan should be available. And even Cowan has a price tag if it lands a big enough fish. He’s too young and too small to be effective in the window of opportunity the Leafs have currently backed themselves into. Robertson was a goal scoring machine in the OHL but has been basically useless in the NHL. Cowan is better than Robertson but suffers from the same issues and will ultimately take longer than 3 years before we get what we need out of him. He should be given a chance but he’s not untouchable either.
4) Jesus Fucking Christ, we gotta do something about Rielly. If he’s coked out, put him in rehab and bury his caphit. If he refuses a trade, then redeploy him as a second pairing guy and go after someone like Provorov. Leafs need another top pair D guy. It won’t come cheap. Maybe use some of the Marner cap space. Also, minor tip here – chatter is that Tampa is cutting bait with Nick Perbix. He’s actually a solid 3rd pair guy who will come cheap. I’d snag him if he leaves Tampa (just for depth).
Agreed on Rielly having to be removed. Leafs absolutely need to drop Rielly off in Vancouver or Seattle. Whether people agree or disagree on Marner staying or going, Rielly must go away as soon as possible. He’s not on cocaine, he just sucks defensively. He has since the day he was drafted. He has enough offensive value you can get some depth pieces in return like a 4C and a 3rd pair D. Enough to be useful for the Leafs but nothing directly the same price or role.
But after he’s gone, they don’t need another top pair D. I think the only option the Leafs have now is to acquire a 3rd pair D for Rielly and sign another depth offensive D for the 3rd pair. At this point, the Leafs are locked into having a bunch of old guys as their D core. If you can have 3 balanced LD/RD who can play 20 min each, the Leafs can just do it by committee.
I would prefer to bring in Brent Burns as the Leafs depth D. He’s from Barrie, he’s 40, he’s got a huge shot for the PP. Maybe he does us a favor and gives us a retirement contract discount. He’s looking to win a Cup on a contender, he spent most of his career in San Jose and Carolina. He might come for the ride with his hometown team at this point.
5) Blockbuster trade that brings in an elite centerman or winger to replace Marner. I’ll hold my breath on this one, but I’m giving Tree a chance here to blow us away with something unforseen and off the board.
Not happening, the Leafs don’t have the assets unless they decide to trade Nylander. In that case, a 2nd line C and a 2nd pair D might help the Leafs and allow them to keep Marner if they move Nylander for the pieces they can’t find as UFAs. At this point, just getting rid of Rielly for depth pieces would be a blockbuster.
I think Berube could make Marner and the “DNA” improve if the right pieces are brought in to compliment him,as Uggie keeps going on about. He’s not wrong about that. But, who is actually available right now? I don’t want to hear Bennett or Marchand. The first is a dirty piece of shit that wouldn’t come to TO unless he’s grossly overpaid, and the other is a bionic geezer piece of shit who is definitely on the wrong side of the aging curve to throw term at.
This is how you change the DNA of a team. Bunch of hometown Tarana boys who play North, South, violent hockey.
Knies @ 7×3 | Matthews | Marner @ 13.16×8
R. Smith @ 4.25×3 | Jenner @ 3.75×1 | Nylander
Domi | McBain @ 3.5×3 | B. Tanev @ 1.75×2 (or Corey Perry)
Laughton | Blueger @ 1.8×1 | Lorentz @ 1×1
Comtois @ 850 (or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns @ 2×1* | Carlo
Benoit*(if he doesn’t retire, hometown guy because he’s from Barrie. Could be the ultimate utility player as both a 7th D and a 13th forward.)
Realistically, having said all of the rambling shit above, unless Matthews goes Super Saiyan next year and puts the team on his back, the Leafs are going to take a step back without Marner.
Marner’s absence will significantly hurt Matthews (as if he wasn’t bad enough in the playoffs). The stats clearly show, the Leafs can win without Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly. But their record without Marner is significantly worse. Matthews will struggle to reach 60+ goals. Might be a challenge to reach 50 again if Domi is the guy they put up at RW. Nylander doesn’t work with Matthews because they’re both at their best when they shoot first.
The only guy you can bring in to temporarily replace maybe 50-60% of what Marner can do offensively is Patrick Kane. But he’s 37, often injured and hasn’t been effective in the playoffs since 2015. So even Patrick Kane replacing Marner is a big stretch. You also have to bring in Rielly Smith to replace Marner’s defensive responsibilities, especially on the PK. But again, he’s also 34. The Leafs are trying to piece together one 100 point, Selke nominee, 28 year old with two guys on the wrong side of 30. It will look good on paper but the game is played on ice.
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Today I learned that for all I think I know about hockey, I’m absolutely terrible at guessing at fringe players who have scored 5+ goals in a single playoff year.
Today’s Puckdoku – I was 0/3 in guessing at players for Tampa, Detroit and Pittsburgh (noting that I’m trying to get the <2% guys). But apparently, as one example, >5 goals is much less frequent than I thought – Andreychuk did it once in his entire career and it was not for Tampa.
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Marner has the misfortune of having to pay taxes in Canada. That means he will take home significantly less money than his cap hit will suggest he makes. The NHL has no will to change it any time soon either.
Rantanen makes 12 AAV in Dallas which means he actually takes home 7,601,813. For Marner to make the exact same amount, he’d have to have a cap hit of 16.4 AAV to take home 7,664,895. Everybody needs to stop and think about that for a second. That’s how bad the taxes fuck over the Leafs trying to sign players who negotiate based on what they’re taking home. So if Marner is asking for 13 AAV, in reality he is only taking home 6,084,445 for 8 years and a total of 48.6 million dollars. When compared to the 7,601,813 per year Rantanen takes home, it’s actually fair value. The fair compromise for both sides is 13.16 x 8 and Marner is actually taking a discount just nobody is realizing it.
If Utah were to give him 13 AAV, he would take home 7,640,313 per year for 7 years which totals 53.4 million dollars.
In Vegas (an immediate Cup contender), he would take home 8,231,813 for 7 years totals 57.6 million dollars.
Which means, if Utah or Vegas offered him 11 AAV, he’d still make more money, with a lower cap hit, playing for Utah or Vegas than he would for the Leafs at 13 million AAV.This IS NOT a matter of greed. Marner could be leaving anywhere between 5-10 million dollars on the table to play for the Leafs at that price. He’s not negotiating for nickels and dimes in difference
UGWAAAAAAAAN. Millionaires being taxed….someone get uggie a tissue.
Good he’s taxed and it is about greed. There are ways around getting taxed that much, plus all the extra sponsorship he would get….or has. Also, $6.1 yankee is $8.35 CDN and he lives in Toronto so his money would go alot further.
Until the NHL does some sort of equalization (which they wont) this what we are stuck with. If you want to be a Maple Leafs and have a chance to become a revered for decades (if you win) post career then the one sacrifice you have to make…..earn a little less. -
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Today I learned that for all I think I know about hockey, I’m absolutely terrible at guessing at fringe players who have scored 5+ goals in a single playoff year.
Today’s Puckdoku – I was 0/3 in guessing at players for Tampa, Detroit and Pittsburgh (noting that I’m trying to get the <2% guys). But apparently, as one example, >5 goals is much less frequent than I thought – Andreychuk did it once in his entire career and it was not for Tampa. – MonkeyPunk
I usually suck at Puckdoku unless it heavily involves one of my teams and/or teams from the East. I know almost nothing about players from old teams out west. But I saw your post and decided to give this one a shot.
I’m gonna go really really obscure for Tampa and try to hit 1% dudes…and maybe a few Leafs.
John Tucker – Brian Bradley – Freddie Modin
Paul Ysebaert – Pavel Datsyuk – Tomas Holmstrom
John Cullen – Shawn McEachern – Ryan MaloneOk, I did pretty f-ing good on this one, thanks to a lot of time spent playing EA sports NHL Hockey back in the 1990s. I’ve only filled the entire board a small handful of times.
Puckdoku Game 705 – 9/9????:
15 Uniqueness
????????????
????????????
????????????It’s pretty clear that most (if not all) of the “Best Games” are cheaters. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, remembers some of those players, less yet multiples on the same board. I call bullshit.
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I usually suck at Puckdoku unless it heavily involves one of my teams and/or teams from the East. I know almost nothing about players from old teams out west. But I saw your post and decided to give this one a shot.
I’m gonna go really really obscure for Tampa and try to hit 1% dudes…and maybe a few Leafs.
John Tucker – Brian Bradley – Freddie Modin
Paul Ysebaert – Pavel Datsyuk – Tomas Holmstrom
John Cullen – Shawn McEachern – Ryan MaloneOk, I did pretty f-ing good on this one, thanks to a lot of time spent playing EA sports NHL Hockey back in the 1990s. I’ve only filled the entire board a small handful of times.
Puckdoku Game 705 – 9/9????:
15 Uniqueness
????????????
????????????
????????????It’s pretty clear that most (if not all) of the “Best Games” are cheaters. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, remembers some of those players, less yet multiples on the same board. I call bullshit.
~PDO SpeedwagonThat is good. I tried . . . Andreychuk for Tampa, Draper for Detroit and Pierre Larouche for Pittsburgh.
In the other categories I did land on, I had:
Bradley- Prospal
Ciccarelli – Chelios
Stevens – MurphyAndreychuk was my first guess and it was wrong, so all the guesses I made after that I thought were pretty safe. I was surprised about Draper (who scored 4 twice) and I knew Larouche was a good goal scorer, but those Penguin teams weren’t very good, so I didn’t know how much playoff exposure he was getting – he did score 8 with the Rangers later.
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I took 2 magic 8 balls and smashed them together to make #16 and this is what they told me:
Mc Marner to San Jose on a big time overpay, maybe even close to max cap space deal (20% of the cap) to be the face of the franchise & made captain (Since Logan Couture announced his retirement in April) with Cellebrini so for next year 20% of the cap is 19.1M I could see San Jose making Marner the highest paid player in the NHL.
Sharks are projected to have nearly 42M in cap space this year.
Yes I’m being silly with the max cap space thing but I could totally see San Jose making a serious offer to make Marner the highest paid guy in the league and maybe give him the C (for sure he would get an A).
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I didn’t like him in the playoffs on TV and I’m not sure he’s the right guy but I guess we will see. I know he was an Assistant coach in Tampa when they were a powerhouse but I feel like he got a lot of credit for someone else’s (Jon Cooper) work.
He wasn’t good in Detroit IMO.
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I didn’t like him in the playoffs on TV and I’m not sure he’s the right guy but I guess we will see. I know he was an Assistant coach in Tampa when they were a powerhouse but I feel like he got a lot of credit for someone else’s (Jon Cooper) work.
He wasn’t good in Detroit IMO.
This is terrible… I echo, Terrible coach, Terrible on TV..I actually got the feeling he hated the Leafs
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well, I hope Lalonde has good thing to say about the Leafs now.
Right? He did have some as the series went on but I felt like it was far outweighed by the negative. It’ll be interesting now to see if his great insight into all the things wrong are fixed since he now technically owns some of the responsibility of trying to fix them.
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I didn’t like him in the playoffs on TV and I’m not sure he’s the right guy but I guess we will see. I know he was an Assistant coach in Tampa when they were a powerhouse but I feel like he got a lot of credit for someone else’s (Jon Cooper) work.
He wasn’t good in Detroit IMO.
~Cush29Holy shit. I thought you had gotten carried away with AI images again, but this is legit. Meh, another former head coach as an assistant to replace Lambert can’t be a horrible thing. Shoulda hired Pete DeBoer, but I’m sure they were well on their way to hiring Lalonde long before DeBoer was fired.
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Lalonde definitely didn’t play a major role in Tampa’s success. He’s an interchangeable part. The architect of the Tampa mini-dynasty was Briesbois (and LTIR shenanigans) and the helmsman was always Cooper. I’ve been heavily plugged in to Tampa news forever and I can’t recall one thing Lalonde has done specifically.
Darche was a bigger loss for Tampa recently than Lalonde was.
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Bennett gets away with shooting Ekholms stick away. Of course.
It’s hard not to wonder what impact Corey Perry might have had on the Leafs had Dubas/Shanahan signed him all those years ago instead of Wayne Simmods. He is a p.o.s. too like Bennett and Marchand….but you need those players to win.
Our management has made so many errors in this era. ????
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McJesus will never win a Cup in Edmonton until they get a legit goalie. I’m not pinning this loss on Skinner because I didn’t watch the entire game. But honestly, a toddler with a brain defect can see that. We bitch about the Leafs “running it back” every year, but WTF is happening in Edmonton where the management looks at the parade of fail between the pipes and says “We can run with this.” ????
Florida Meth-Smokers in 6.
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Fuck Bennett or Marchand.
I won’t support a team that signs either one of those cheapshot artists. Both of them are fucking Kenny Linseman for fucks sake. If playing dirty and cheating is what it takes to win, I’ll find something else to occupy my time.
Edit : obviously I am being dramatic here. I won’t abandon the Leafs, but I won’t like it. Hopefully it would be like Tampa signing Perry. I hated it at first. Oilers should have given Bennett the Claude Lemieux treatment for running Skinner AGAIN. It boggles my mind how these guys get away with it. And Marchand shoulda been banned for life years ago. The guy has faced fines and suspensions for dirty/dangerous play more than a dozen times in his career. Being a dirty shit-talking dick like Darcy Tucker is one thing, running around recklessly (at best, intentionally at worst) trying to injure other players and potentially end their careers is another. Fuck that guy and any team he plays for. Motherfucker licks faces for chrissakes. Either enforce these rules or remove them from the rulebook.
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Fuck Bennett or Marchand.
I won’t support a team that signs either one of those cheapshot artists. Both of them are fucking Kenny Linseman for fucks sake. If playing dirty and cheating is what it takes to win, I’ll find something else to occupy my time.
Edit : obviously I am being dramatic here. I won’t abandon the Leafs, but I won’t like it. Hopefully it would be like Tampa signing Perry. I hated it at first. Oilers should have given Bennett the Claude Lemieux treatment for running Skinner AGAIN. It boggles my mind how these guys get away with it. And Marchand shoulda been banned for life years ago. The guy has faced fines and suspensions for dirty/dangerous play more than a dozen times in his career. Being a dirty shit-talking dick like Darcy Tucker is one thing, running around recklessly (at best, intentionally at worst) trying to injure other players and potentially end their careers is another. Fuck that guy and any team he plays for. Motherfucker licks faces for chrissakes. Either enforce these rules or remove them from the rulebook.
~PDO SpeedwagonIt’s tricky – but you need assholes to succeed. Guys who get under the other team’s skin. Guys who want to life difficult for the opposition. Guys who will do what it takes to make it happen.
The ideal line there is someone like Hyman who would make the opposition’s goalie uncomfortable – and he’s done an even better job in Edmonton.
The Oilers and Panthers both have their share of total douchebags and the Knights, who won two years ago, had Whitecloud, Kolesar, Hague, Roy . . .and it’s not like Pietrangelo isn’t a dick, too. I guess the Avs, the year before, didn’t really have anyone who was a complete tool. Landeskog, Manson, Nichushkin, Lehkonen . . .they play hard, but not dirty. Even the two championship Tampa teams . . . Goodrow and Maroon are twats. Kucherov is a dirty player that is never called for it, too. You have to have guys who are pushing back and making the other team uncomfortable – and guys who make the other team do stupid stuff.
Hence why I think the Leafs do need Marchand and/or Bennett. They are who Michael Bunting was aspiring to be before the refs decided it was open season on him in Toronto.
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Leafs have been dying for a player like Perry, PDO. -fifty
In an alternative universe, where the Leafs had consistent, competent management that knew how to keep their own draft picks, develop prospects and make shrewd trades, they could very easily have a team that looks like this…
Hyman @ 5.5 | Matthews @ 13.25 | Marner @ 10.9
Knies @ 925K | Verhaeghe @ 7 | Nylander @ 11.5
Brown @ 1 | Bennett @ 4.425 | Dakota Joshua @ 3.25
Kapanen @ 1| Domi @ 3.75 | Perry @ 1.1And the craziest part is, if you do the math of what those guys made this year, it would have been 63.675 AAV out of an 88 million dollar cap ceiling.
That would have left 24.3 AAV to still have Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Carlo, Benoit, Woll and Stolarz leaving the Leafs with 1.4 AAV in remaining cap space to sign one last bottom pair D.
Only Rielly wouldn’t have fit. Not a big loss, as we all know. But could have easily landed us a big piece in return back when he got his extension if he were traded instead of signed.
This is also not to mention how different the Leafs D would look had they kept Sandin and Durzi, just to name two, instead of opting for a D-core that is mostly 31-35 year olds.
Just as an example…at 22.8 AAV…
OEL | Tanev
Sandin | Carlo
Benoit | DurziWith a bit of draft lottery luck, you could also swap out Marner for McDavid @ 12.5 which the Leafs could afford by not having either Joshua or Domi and replacing them with a league minimum contract.
Just sayin…
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It’s tricky – but you need assholes to succeed. Guys who get under the other team’s skin. Guys who want to life difficult for the opposition. Guys who will do what it takes to make it happen.
You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
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You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit! – Uggie
WTF did I just read? LOL.
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You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
You nailed it!
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You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
“MATT DAMON!”
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You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
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I feel like the JT situation will be all tied up and done well in advance of the Marner one as it’s a fair bit simpler assuming he takes a hometown discount to stay and retire a Leaf – which I think he will.
~Cush29
I share the same sentiment. JT wants to remain and unless Treliving comes in insultingly low, a deal is going to get done.
Marner, I’m almost certain, is going to test the market and the only question left is whether the Leafs do a sign and trade or trade his rights to recoup some value.
Last year there was a lot of chatter about how everyone knew where certain free agents were going to sign prior to July 1 with the NHL saying that they were aware and were investigating (and I’m sure if it had been a Canadian team that as guilty, they’d have done something about it) – but with a high profile player like Marner, if teams start talking to him prior to July 1 or if it’s “a known done deal” before July 1, I’d suspect tampering could actually be brought up. It might be wise for an interested team to trade something to get that right to talk to him early. Carolina has Toronto’s 6th in 2026. That’s probably a fair trade to get a player’s negotiating rights.
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I share the same sentiment. JT wants to remain and unless Treliving comes in insultingly low, a deal is going to get done.
Marner, I’m almost certain, is going to test the market and the only question left is whether the Leafs do a sign and trade or trade his rights to recoup some value.
Last year there was a lot of chatter about how everyone knew where certain free agents were going to sign prior to July 1 with the NHL saying that they were aware and were investigating (and I’m sure if it had been a Canadian team that as guilty, they’d have done something about it) – but with a high profile player like Marner, if teams start talking to him prior to July 1 or if it’s “a known done deal” before July 1, I’d suspect tampering could actually be brought up. It might be wise for an interested team to trade something to get that right to talk to him early. Carolina has Toronto’s 6th in 2026. That’s probably a fair trade to get a player’s negotiating rights.
Has any team in recent memory, let’s say, the past 10-15 years, with a player who fits the bill of Tavares been able to win a Cup?
I’d put Tavares in the category of: massive defensively liability, poor skating, 34-40 year old making 5-7 million getting top-six minutes and PP time with poor career playoff success. I’m going to guess; no.
If Tavares is on this team, even on a “discount”, the Leafs will still be fundamentally flawed and won’t be able to win a Cup with him on the roster. Much like how Duchene at 3 million seemed like a bargain for Dallas, Duchene was horrible at 5v5 and defensively for Dallas in the playoffs despite leading the team in scoring in the regular season. I see Tavares in the same light and I don’t think he gives the Leafs any real winning value unless he makes 1 million a year. At absolute most, 2 million AAV.
Tavares has made 112 million dollars in his career. Even with the government stealing 50% of that, Tavares is set for generations and can afford to play for 1-2 million a season if playing in Toronto is paramount to his existence. The Leafs, however, can’t afford to have Tavares at more than that.
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I’d put Tavares in the category of: massive defensively liability, poor skating, 34-40 year old making 5-7 million getting top-six minutes and PP time with poor career playoff success. I’m going to guess; no. – Uggie
Not exactly the same, but Steven Stamkos checks a lot of those boxes. Granted, Stamkos was only 30 when he got his first Cup and then 31 on the second Cup. Not great defensively, average skater, little playoff success prior to the Cups. He was making about $8m at the time.
So… kinda…. ish.
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Not exactly the same, but Steven Stamkos checks a lot of those boxes. Granted, Stamkos was only 30 when he got his first Cup and then 31 on the second Cup. Not great defensively, average skater, little playoff success prior to the Cups. He was making about $8m at the time.
So… kinda…. ish.
So, strike one, he wasn’t 34+, as you already said. Stamkos also had multiple deeper playoff runs (2011/2015/2018) in his younger days prior to winning, including one run to the Final that he lost. All in all, Stamkos has 50 career playoff goals and 100 playoff points to Tavares’ 28 playoff goals and 53 playoff points and they’re basically the same age. The way Tavares got shutout in 6 out of 7 games against the Panthers is something I don’t think Stamkos was capable of. But perhaps at 34+ Tampa Bay let him go away for good reason. And the Leafs should do the same.
If the Toronto media and fans want to blame the “core” for being bad playoff performers, perhaps it was their mentors, Marleau, Thornton, Spezza and Tavares that showed them how to be playoff losers.
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Stamkos has played 128 career playoff games many of them with stacked Tampa teams.
JT has played 75 with the Islanders and Leafs.
#facts
You should at least attempt to do research before you say stupid shit like that.
If Tavares only played 75 career playoff games, it’s probably because he played like shit so often, his teams didn’t advance as often or as far as they should have.
Stamkos, in 2015, led his team to the Final with the super megastar Tyler Johnson. Kucherov was a 65 point, 2nd year player, great in the playoffs, yes, but not yet considered who he is today at that time. Vasilevskiy was the back-up. Point wasn’t even drafted yet. Hedman had less points than Stralman. The next year, Stamkos only played 1 playoff game. His team did not return to the Final without him, despite every other major player still being on the team. They did not return to the Final for many years, despite missing the playoffs entirely one year and getting swept by Columbus after being the #1 team in the NHL. Did they blow up the team? Trade Kucherov? Point? Stamkos? Hedman? Vasilevskiy? Nope. Luckily they didn’t have idiot fans running their best players out of town.
Stamkos’ 50 career playoff goals is only 3 less than Kucherov, 6 more than Point and many more than other guy on the roster during that era. And he did that despite missing nearly two entire playoff runs due to injury.
Can Tavares say he did anything anywhere near that? Since 2018 up to 2025, despite being the 2nd highest paid player in the league for most of that time, Tavares (in his fucking prime) sat behind far younger, more inexperienced players like Marner, Matthews, Nylander and even Rielly in playoff scoring. And -15 too. If you wanted to make the argument that he was the best player on a team that lacked good players (like Sundin) you might have a leg to stand on. But you got nothing but excuses for a piece of shit player who did nothing to live up to the contract and praise he was given. People like you were screaming from the rooftops “look at what he did with garbage players in Long Island, just imagine what he’ll do in Toronto with Matthews, Marner and Nylander, we are spoiled with riches” and look how it all played out. Those same people are now screaming for his return. But they also scream “change, change, change”. You want fake change.
The more you look at the numbers, the more it seems like Matthews is closer to Stamkos than Tavares is because Tavares is absolute dog shit by comparison. Matthews is the 60 goal man, plagued by injuries in the playoffs who requires the team around him to be stacked because he can’t carry it all by himself. Which is fine because most players can’t. Not even McDavid seems to be able to win it all by himself.
Even if your argument was that Stamkos was a passenger (he wasn’t) on stacked teams for 16 years, behind Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Vasilevskiy etc., it holds zero water to expect the Leafs to have Stanley Cup success by bringing Tavares back along as a passenger at 34-40 when they have absolutely nobody who performs like the “stacked” Tampa Bay teams did, to carry him along. Much less, after also letting Marner (the #1 career playoff point producer on this team) walk for nothing and replacing him with spare parts at the bottom of the UFA barrel.
Facts. Will you accept them? Probably not.
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You should at least attempt to do research before you say stupid shit like that.
Stupid shit eh, honestly if anyone would know about saying stupid shit it’s you.
Seriously, are you that blinded by your hate for JT and raging that the Leafs would be so wrong to bring him back that you have to be an an absolute knob to anyone who dares not agree with your opinion? I would think by now you would be used to people not agreeing with all your super hot takes and video game mode trade proposals.
You posted stats about 2 players with zero context other than “playoff points / goals” which was intentionally misleading since one guy has played 128 playoff games and the other 75 and when that fact is pointed out to you this is how you react?
For the record I didn’t see ANYONE say JT was a better playoff performer (I sure as hell didn’t), I provided context to your post that was missing important information – had you posted it initially instead of trying to spin a narrative by intentionally omitting it we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Here are some more facts that may hurt your feelings:
JT HAS in fact played 75 career playoff games https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89823
Tyler Johnson was the playoff goal and point leader in 2015, he also led in even strength goals, Game Winning goals and goals created in those playoffs.
Tampa had Ben Bishop in net who had the most shutouts in the playoffs, a .921 Save % and a 2.18 GAA.
Maybe it’s you who should do research before posting ‘stupid shit’ or post the entire set of data and not just cherry pick what helps support your opinion and purposely omit what doesn’t but should be considered.
The only person screaming about JT is you, it’s quite probable that JT will be back, you may want to look to accept that fact while considering that facts don’t care about your feelings.
Thinking that not bringing a guy back for 3-5M is the major change that’s needed vs not paying a winger 13M or more and yet again putting the Leafs into a cap situation where they simply can’t build the balanced roster that the true, like the elite teams in this league have right now is incredibly short sighted.
I’m done with this debate – sorry / not sorry to have spoiled your narrative with facts.
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You posted stats about 2 players with zero context other than “playoff points / goals” which was intentionally misleading since one guy has played 128 playoff games and the other 75 and when that fact is pointed out to you this is how you react?
There is absolutely nothing misleading or out of context about stating the fact that Stamkos has actually been a playoff performer and Tavares has not.
For the record I didn’t see ANYONE say JT was a better playoff performer (I sure as hell didn’t), I provided context to your post that was missing important information – had you posted it initially instead of trying to spin a narrative by intentionally omitting it we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
You certainly implied it by trying to spin the context by stating that Stamkos was playing on “stacked” teams while Tavares wasn’t.
The facts slapped you harder across the face than Edmonton got slapped in Game 3.
Here are some more facts that may hurt your feelings:
JT HAS in fact played 75 career playoff games https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89823
34 years only and he’s only played in 75 career playoff games? And you want that garbage to come back?
Tyler Johnson was the playoff goal and point leader in 2015, he also led in even strength goals, Game Winning goals and goals created in those playoffs.
Tampa had Ben Bishop in net who had the most shutouts in the playoffs, a .921 Save % and a 2.18 GAA.
Maybe it’s you who should do research before posting ‘stupid shit’ or post the entire set of data and not just cherry pick what helps support your opinion and purposely omit what doesn’t but should be considered.
Irrelevant. Having Tyler Johnson and Ben Bishop on the team is hardly having a “stacked” team the year he first brought his team to the Cup Final. That same “stacked” team, didn’t go as far without him the next year. Tyler Johnson never had a playoff run like that ever again. Bishop got replaced by Vasilevskiy.
Your dumbass point was refuted. Easily.
The only person screaming about JT is you, it’s quite probable that JT will be back, you may want to look to accept that fact while considering that facts don’t care about your feelings.
Thinking that not bringing a guy back for 3-5M is the major change that’s needed vs not paying a winger 13M or more and yet again putting the Leafs into a cap situation where they simply can’t build the balanced roster that the true, like the elite teams in this league have right now is incredibly short sighted.
Throwing away your leading point producer in his prime for nothing while bringing back an old, proven loser is the precise manner in which this franchise continues to fail miserably. Keep supporting the failure.
I’m done with this debate – sorry / not sorry to have spoiled your narrative with facts.
Good, you know when you’ve been defeated. Now stay silent like a good boy.
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At this point you’d almost have to give Rielly away. Even if he agreed to waive (he won’t), the return is going to be scrubs and low picks unless you retain and fuck retaining on a contract like that. Send him to Utah for a 7th and a box of timbits.
Sure, the ownership could run him out of town and basically “override” his NMC by driving him out, but then you damage the team’s reputation as a destination for other players like free agents or trade targets. That’s far from ideal.
Put him in rehab, bury the caphit.
Kerrigan his kneecap and put him on Robidas Island.
Redeploy him as a 2nd pair, optimize for a reduced and overpaid role, and live with it.
That’s pretty much your options.
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At this point you’d almost have to give Rielly away. Even if he agreed to waive (he won’t), the return is going to be scrubs and low picks unless you retain and fuck retaining on a contract like that. Send him to Utah for a 7th and a box of timbits.
Sure, the ownership could run him out of town and basically “override” his NMC by driving him out, but then you damage the team’s reputation as a destination for other players like free agents or trade targets. That’s far from ideal.
Put him in rehab, bury the caphit.
Kerrigan his kneecap and put him on Robidas Island.
Redeploy him as a 2nd pair, optimize for a reduced and overpaid role, and live with it.
That’s pretty much your options.
Disagree.
Rielly has negative value to the Leafs but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have value to somebody else. Remember, Karlsson got traded. Rielly can be traded.
He will waive for Vancouver or Seattle. He doesn’t have a cocaine problem, that’s just insane bullshit that’s been said about Nylander too. He is what he’s always been; good skater who can’t play defense.
The Leafs can get a bottom pairing D and a 4th line C for him. Vancouver would probably welcome him as they expect to trade Hughes as he has no interest in staying long term and wants to play with his brothers.
Rielly to VAN for Blueger and T. Myers.
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Well, if you can convince Rielly to waive and work a deal with Vancouver to take him (preferably zero retention) and get some assets in return, then I nominate you as the next executive assistant to the assistant general manager.
Blueger has a $1.8m caphit for next season and then UFA after that.
Myers has a $3m caphit until 2027 and then UFA, and he’s 35 right now, BTW.
So, you would be taking on $4.8m in cap and shooting Rielly’s $7.5m caphit into the Sun… which runs until 2030 by the way, so I hope the Canucks really really want him with no retention.
You would be gaining $2.2m in free cap. That’s a nice little piece of change that gets you another bottom sixer or #3-#5 dman.
The problem I see here is, Myers is definitely not a top pair guy. And that still leaves you without a true #1 dman, which Rielly was at least cosplaying as on the Leafs. Blueger is basically a plug and is a noshow in the playoffs, so I guess he’s a little cheaper than Kampf.
None of this solves the root issue on defense – the Leafs don’t have a rock or warhorse. They don’t have a true #1. Rielly is trying and failing. Shooting him into the Sun, but taking back almost $5m in cap on a 35 year old dman and Kampf-lite doesn’t feel like a big upgrade, although you get free of Rielly’s cap from years 2027 onward.
On further reflection, I think it might be better if Rielly gets a coke habit.
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Well, if you can convince Rielly to waive and work a deal with Vancouver to take him (preferably zero retention) and get some assets in return, then I nominate you as the next executive assistant to the assistant general manager.
The Leafs don’t need to get gold in return for Rielly. They just need a little extra cap space and to fill gaps in the line-up. I don’t think it requires anything special to get him to waive. They just need to sit down with him and tell him he’s not part of the future plans of the team. At that point, he starts picking places he would like to land in.
Blueger has a $1.8m caphit for next season and then UFA after that.
Myers has a $3m caphit until 2027 and then UFA, and he’s 35 right now, BTW.
Which is perfect for the Leafs. Blueger gives the Leafs a Cup winning 4C who can play the PK and with speed.
Myers gives the Leafs another big body, RHD, who can PK and defend. Maybe gives the Leafs another PP option with his point shot.
So, you would be taking on $4.8m in cap and shooting Rielly’s $7.5m caphit into the Sun… which runs until 2030 by the way, so I hope the Canucks really really want him with no retention.
As I said earlier, they’ll probably end up losing Hughes one way or another by 2030. He doesn’t want to stay in Vancouver. Rielly is at least a hometown guy.
You would be gaining $2.2m in free cap. That’s a nice little piece of change that gets you another bottom sixer or #3-#5 dman.
And that extra cap space would go to either Dumoulin or Brent Burns (hometown discount). Dumoulin gives the Leafs another steady Cup winner with a bit of size and defensive awareness.
At the moment, the Leafs have 3 LHD in OEL, McCabe and Benoit. None of them are #1 D, that’s for certain. However, the Leafs lack 3 RHD.
A big source of the Leafs defensive issues is that they had OEL playing on the right side and it significantly lowered his ability to move the puck effectively.
OEL / Tanev
McCabe / Myers
Dumoulin or Burns / Carlo
BenoitThe problem I see here is, Myers is definitely not a top pair guy. And that still leaves you without a true #1 dman, which Rielly was at least cosplaying as on the Leafs. Blueger is basically a plug and is a noshow in the playoffs, so I guess he’s a little cheaper than Kampf.
None of this solves the root issue on defense – the Leafs don’t have a rock or warhorse. They don’t have a true #1. Rielly is trying and failing. Shooting him into the Sun, but taking back almost $5m in cap on a 35 year old dman and Kampf-lite doesn’t feel like a big upgrade, although you get free of Rielly’s cap from years 2027 onward.
This gives the Leafs the ability to deploy 3 sets of evenly LHD/RHD pairs that can each play 20 min each. Ideally, it would be nice if the Leafs had a guy like Seth Jones (Leafs were too stupid to acquire him) or some other minute munching top pair D. But unfortunately, those guys are A) not available and B) not within the budget.
On further reflection, I think it might be better if Rielly gets a coke habit.
There’s plenty of fentanyl in Vancouver and Seattle, he can do whatever he wants as soon as he’s off the Leafs cap.
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This gives the Leafs the ability to deploy 3 sets of evenly LHD/RHD pairs that can each play 20 min each. Ideally, it would be nice if the Leafs had a guy like Seth Jones (Leafs were too stupid to acquire him) or some other minute munching top pair D. But unfortunately, those guys are A) not available and B) not within the budget.
However, they could grab Aaron Ekblad as a UFA. If Rielly was moved for picks or prospects, that cash could go straight to Ekblad and solidify the right side of the defense. Leafs need to dispose of both Marner and Rielly. Replace with picks to restock the cupboard. Brock Boeser, and Nikolaj Ehlers could be had for the price of Marner’s contract. You solidify the top 6 and the defense is stronger. Is it enough to win the Atlantic? Maybe. Some time soon, the drain of talent from Florida will finally take them out. Leafs have 2 years to get it done, before the younger teams like Ottawa, Montreal, and Detroit come knocking.
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However, they could grab Aaron Ekblad as a UFA. If Rielly was moved for picks or prospects, that cash could go straight to Ekblad and solidify the right side of the defense. Leafs need to dispose of both Marner and Rielly. Replace with picks to restock the cupboard. Brock Boeser, and Nikolaj Ehlers could be had for the price of Marner’s contract. You solidify the top 6 and the defense is stronger. Is it enough to win the Atlantic? Maybe. Some time soon, the drain of talent from Florida will finally take them out. Leafs have 2 years to get it done, before the younger teams like Ottawa, Montreal, and Detroit come knocking.
Why the fuck would Ekblad want to play for the Leafs? Please, explain yourself. UFAs aren’t a box of nails you buy at Home Depot. They aren’t just sitting there, waiting for you to be the first one to show up when the doors open.
Do you honestly believe Ekblad has had so many blows to the head that he forgets how much better off he is in Florida?
Additionally, even if he actually was that stupid, why should the Leafs pay him a ridiculous amount of money for 3 goals and 33 points from age 30-37…?
I’m sorry but you’re absolutely fucked if you think Marner needs to be “disposed of” but then want to replace him with soft as baby shit Ehlers and -25 Boeser.
You make absolutely no sense.
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That remains to be said. If Marner wants $13.5M, it’s way too much. You can’t win with this playoff no show at that pay grade. 9 years of this! You wanna make it 10? It’s what you get if you don’t do something about the Cap with this player. He has not won us Jack Sh!t since he’s come to Toronto. No leadership skills, no grit. But he wants more than McDavid. I call Bullsh!t on this mini mercenary.
Leafs need a banger and a player that can shoot the puck from the point. Rielly isn’t it, but Ekblad is. Tavares is also a huge liability that needs to be addressed.
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That remains to be said. If Marner wants $13.5M, it’s way too much.
Basic math says that anything less than 16.5 AAV for Marner would actually be a home town discount.
It’s very easy to do. Try it yourself.
https://puckpedia.com/tax-calculator
Marner would take home the same amount in Vegas at 12 AAV as he would in Toronto at 16.5 AAV.
So if he’s asking for the same as Matthews, that actually is a hometown discount. The problem is, absolutely nobody seems to be sharp enough to realize that he’s losing a lot of money by staying in Toronto at that price.
You can’t win with this playoff no show at that pay grade. 9 years of this! You wanna make it 10?
More career playoff points than Matthews, Nylander, Rielly and Tavares. But somehow, the idiots in the media (whom you are parroting) label him the one “no show”. Makes no sense.
Took Yzerman 14 years to win a Cup. Took Ovechkin 12 years, and he’s only advanced past the 2nd round once. Yes, it’s frustrating but it takes time to continue adding pieces to the team to be able to win a Cup in a stacked division.
It’s what you get if you don’t do something about the Cap with this player. He has not won us Jack Sh!t since he’s come to Toronto. No leadership skills, no grit. But he wants more than McDavid. I call Bullsh!t on this mini mercenary.
So trade Matthews and Nylander too by your logic?
Leafs need a banger and a player that can shoot the puck from the point. Rielly isn’t it, but Ekblad is.
Bennett, Marchand and Ekblad are not leaving Florida for Toronto. Ekblad had 3 goals last year. Rielly had 7. Both had 4 playoff goals each. But Ekblad only has 8 career playoff goals. Rielly has 15. Imagine being so stupid as to trade away Rielly, only to sign a guy for the same (or more) money who gives you even less offense, with a history of concussions and who will demand more money than the Leafs can afford to give him. The Leafs would be better off with Brent Burns than Ekblad at 30% of the cost without the long term commitment.
Tavares is also a huge liability that needs to be addressed.
Probably the only accurate statement you’ve made all night.
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Assuming we resign all 3 RFA FW
Current rosterKnies Matthews Nylander
McMann Tavares Robertson
Domi Laughton Jarnkrok
Holmberg Kampf Cowan/ReavesWe need more toughness in bottom 6
Lorentz is meh
Kant must go!
Holmberg/Robertson/Jarnkrok trade baitOptions: Tanev, Jeannot, Kuraly, Frederic, Armia, Bjugstad, Cousins ?
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Better to try to trade Marner’s rights, or let him walk. Add two players to the top 6 with that money. Make sure to get Knies signed and let Tavares walk, if he wants more than $5M on a one year deal.
On the Oilers, if I’m the Leafs, I send out feelers to them regarding acquiring one of our goaltenders. Make it a steep price, like Bouchard, or a 1st and a prospect. Leafs seem to have a lot of goaltenders, moving through their system right now. Giving up Stolarz or Woll could net a top flight player. Edmonton is desperate right now to find a decent goaltender that isn’t going to cost them $5M per season.
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Assuming we resign all 3 RFA FW
Current rosterKnies Matthews Nylander
McMann Tavares Robertson
Domi Laughton Jarnkrok
Holmberg Kampf Cowan/ReavesWe need more toughness in bottom 6
Lorentz is meh
Kant must go!
Holmberg/Robertson/Jarnkrok trade baitOptions: Tanev, Jeannot, Kuraly, Frederic, Armia, Bjugstad, Cousins ?
Knies @ 7×3 | Matthews | Marner @ 13.16×8
R. Smith @ 4×3 | Jenner @ 3.75×1 | Nylander
Domi | McBain @ 3.5×3 | B. Tanev @ 1.75×2 (or Corey Perry)
Laughton | Blueger @ 1.8×1 | Lorentz @ 1×1
Comtois @ 850 (or Pacioretty @ 1 if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns @ 2×1* | Carlo
BenoitWoll | Stolarz
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I think JT will get a 4 or 5 year extension @ 5 or 5.5M cap hit
I agree with Knies.I think the Leafs can’t win a Cup with a player that bad defensively, that old at that price. He was useless in 6 out of 7 games against Florida. Why does anybody think that just because he’ll make 50% less money that he’ll some how become 50% more effective. He wasn’t even scoring on the PP, the one area of his game that should still be sharp as a tack. Looks like people are lying about him being as sharp as a tack. Sounds familiar.
Knies should be on the lowest possible cap hit over 3 years. The longer the deal, the higher the cap hit because the Leafs would be buying UFA years. The Leafs are better off avoiding the same mistake they made with previous players and keeping his deal to 3 years. When Domi’s contract expires, you give Knies that extra cap space and make him the 10-11 million AAV player when he’s earned it. By then, Matthews will be gone too anyways.
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R.Smith is to old. 34 and he cannot stay healthy. PERIOD!
and has hands of stone. He got what 11 points last year.
I’d rather keep Lorentz who will be cheaper and better IMOAnd how old is Tavares? Right…34.
He scored 40 points and played 79 games last year. What fucking stats are you looking at?
The difference is that Smith is a two-way winger who brings plenty of playoff experience. And most importantly, he’s an actual winner. Cheaper than Tavares too, on a shorter deal. Still a hometown guy too.
On no planet or universe is Lorentz better than Smith. Just because a player is cheaper doesn’t mean you’re going to win a Cup. Otherwise, the Columbus Blue Jackets would be Cup champs by now.
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For UG lineup proposal:
Marner 13.16m not happening
R Smith is washed
JT still a PPG player – discount ????
CBJ not trading Jenner (I wish)
Overpayment for McBain
Underpayment for Tanev
Blueger is fine
Comtois no for political reasons
Patches is a better option
Burns is older than Monty
T Myers ????Am I doing this right? ????
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Marner 13.16m not happening
R Smith is washed
JT still a PPG player – discount ????
CBJ not trading Jenner (I wish)
Overpayment for McBain
Underpayment for Tanev
Blueger is fine
Comtois no for political reasons
Patches is a better option
Burns is older than Monty
T Myers ????Marner could still sign, it’s not a guarantee one way or the other that he won’t.
If Smith is washed, Tavares is washed. Point per game against Florida? Oh right, disappeared in 6 out of 7 games. He’s useless defensively too. At least Smith can play two-way hockey and isn’t a liability. Has a ring too.
Jenner has been on the trade block for years. They have enough young guys that can replace him. He’s a pending UFA anyway so CBJ would move him if the Leafs tried hard enough. Jarnkrok or Kampf + McMann or Robertson.
McBain is worth every penny. 200-300 hits, big body, can win FOs and depth scoring. Young, home town guy. 10 times better than wasting that money on Tavares.
Tanev either wants to play for a home town discount or he can go take a hike. He’s not that good. He’s only worth it if he’s cheap. I’d take Perry over him for the same money every day of the week.
Nothing wrong with Comtois. Perfectly good depth player.
Pacioretty is always injured. Definitely need him to have a platoon buddy.
Burns is huge, can play RD or RW. Only a 1 year deal so it doesn’t matter if he’s old. Just matters if he can hammer pucks on net from the point and be steady.
Tyler Myers and Blueger for Rielly. Another big body on the blueline who can shoot pucks in hard and low.
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So were the other star players.
Nylander being among the worst of them. So trade Nylander? No. Why? Because at least they’re still in their prime years. Tavares is finished. He’s not worth a penny more than 2 million a year. Take it or enjoy Buffalo.
yeah, I don’t think so. he’d be moved already is that was the case. Skalapy has want him on the Leafs team for ever.
He was injured most of last year and CBJ was fine without him. They can afford to move him. They also kind of have to move him because he only has 1 year left on his deal. They have enough young C, they need more young wingers. Jenner is not only exactly what the Leafs need to replace Tavares, he’s also exactly what the Leafs always overpay for at the deadline. Make a deal now, pay less and lock up what will be a solid future 2C.
If it takes picks or prospects, Jarnkrok, Kampf, McMann, Robertson, whatever it is except maybe Cowan. Get the deal done.
Same with McBain. Or Lawson Crouse. Instead of sitting there saying “oh, I wish we had Sam Bennett” go out and find the next one before he becomes unaffordable. Sam Bennett was acquired for Emil Heineman and a 2nd round pick. There’s no reason why the Leafs couldn’t have made that deal before Florida. But they were too stupid. Time to stop being stupid and find the next one.
man, people are hoping other players from the GTA are going to be taken a discount to play for the Leafs. gee. what naivety
Seems to be what everybody is relying on Tavares to do. But instead of spending that 5-6 million on an old, overrated, slow, defensively garbage Tavares, they should be looking for every other low risk, high reward home town discount they can find from reliable two-way players.
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For a bit more cap flexibility, might be a good idea to bridge Knies.
go 2 or 3 years now would allow them to add 1 more decent bottom 6That’s like throwing a Molotov Cocktail in a couple of years. Do you really want him to leave as a UFA? Or an offer-sheet this year? Pay him now at $7M for 8 years, or pay him $11M in 2 years. Better to have the lesser cap hit in year’s 3 through 8.
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That’s like throwing a Molotov Cocktail in a couple of years. Do you really want him to leave as a UFA? Or an offer-sheet this year? Pay him now at $7M for 8 years, or pay him $11M in 2 years. Better to have the lesser cap hit in year’s 3 through 8.
Well thats if that number was possible. Which it may not be for 8 years.
some realistic numbers iv seen based on current and projected cap.
8 years at 8-8.5mil
comp players like Boldy, Slaf, Byfield signed in the 7-8% of the cap range
not all were for 8 years. its 7, 8 and 5 yearswhile its easy to say sign him now for 8 years at 7 mil, I doubt thats the number (anymore)
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Sabres appear to be ready to move on from Alex Tuch
To Buffalo
Robertson
Kampf/Jarncrok(or both for all I care)
Neimala/Steeves other prospect(Leafs have a number of prospects that they seem to have no use for)
4th round pickTo Toronto
Alex Tuch
2nd round pickAssuming the signings of Knies, Pathces and Tavares go through and Marner is gone
Try to sign Duchene/Bennet(I think Bennet contract is going to make him stupidly overpaid.
Knies Mathews Domi
McMann Duchene/Bennet Nylander
Patches Tavares Tuch
X Laughton XXXXFill the 4th line with big tough guys who can skate.
Patches should be load managed to get him to the playoffs healthy.. Play him every other gameAlternatively
Try to trade for the rights to Marco Rossi/Mason Mctavish
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Except that the Oilers didn’t lie down and roll over in the game they lost 6-1 the way the Leafs did. Twice. The Oilers actually showed some pride.
~fifty
A lot of good that did them. So, the Oilers are leading the series in moral victories?!?
– WhipperIf the Leafs showed that jam at least there wouldn’t be jerseys thrown on the ice. I can cheer for a team that gives it’s all and has some sack. The Leafs did not deserve their fans support in game 5 and 7.
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I bet Edmonton trades McDavid and signs Bennett.
Because that’s apparently what the Leafs need to do.
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I disagree. Leafs won 3 games and you can’t take that away from them. They’re as close as anybody. Definitely needs improvement but that team is closer than anybody so far.
Leafs won 3 games and it is a fact.
Leafs blown game 5 and 7 is a fact.
Leafs lost it when it most needed and it also the fact.
Panthers had very weak game one and two, especially Bobrovky and it also fact.
Not taking anything from Leafs, but Panthers on whole another level in playoffs and fact
that it was 7 games series does not change a lot. -
Leafs won 3 games and it is a fact.
Leafs blown game 5 and 7 is a fact.
Leafs lost it when it most needed and it also the fact.
Panthers had very weak game one and two, especially Bobrovky and it also fact.
Not taking anything from Leafs, but Panthers on whole another level in playoffs and fact
that it was 7 games series does not change a lot.I agree, the Leafs had some bad games. But they were also 1 OT goal away in Game 3 from being up 3-0. They had breakaways in OT and didn’t seal the deal.
I think Bob at 37+, will be a disadvantage for Florida that the Leafs can overcome if they keep this team together and try again with the guys under 30 and add the right grit.
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I agree, the Leafs had some bad games. But they were also 1 OT goal away in Game 3 from being up 3-0. They had breakaways in OT and didn’t seal the deal.
I think Bob at 37+, will be a disadvantage for Florida that the Leafs can overcome if they keep this team together and try again with the guys under 30 and add the right grit.
What bother me is how the team can add Marchandt, Schmidt and Johnes without spending a lot of assets.
Leafs have no picks and the pretty much the only way to improve is through overpaying in free agency.
Toronto is not preferable destination for free agents, especially when they have not much money to spend on it.
And I don’t think the Leafs had bad game 5 and 7, but rather Florida had their A game. -
What bother me is how the team can add Marchandt, Schmidt and Johnes without spending a lot of assets.
Leafs have no picks and the pretty much the only way to improve is through overpaying in free agency.
Toronto is not preferable destination for free agents, especially when they have not much money to spend on it.
And I don’t think the Leafs had bad game 5 and 7, but rather Florida had their A game.The Leafs are very bad at buying low and almost always buy high. They could have had Bennett years ago. They were stupid. They could have Perry too. Again, stupidity.
This is why they need to be aggressive and trade for their future players right now. Go get Jenner and McBain today so they can be your playoff warriors of tomorrow. Don’t waste money on 35+ year old losers or deadline overpayment.
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This is why they need to be aggressive and trade for their future players right now. Go get Jenner and McBain today so they can be your playoff warriors of tomorrow. Don’t waste money on 35+ year old losers or deadline overpayment.
I hope so. They have to make smart decisions. We will see how good the current management is and
what they will be able to do.
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Tavares will sign a value contract at 3 X 5.5. Most in the hockey world will say that this is a fantastic deal for a ppg player. A few will say it is just right. 1 person will say it is a terrible contract. This person is suffering from TDS. (not the political version, Tavares Derangement Syndrome) -habtard75
Tavares is not value at 5.5 AAV. He was useless, both offensively and defensively versus Florida. He’s 34. He provides no value at that price. Tavares’ “value” is 2 million AAV to the Leafs. Take it or enjoy Buffalo.
It’s cute that some of the slower Leafs fans have turned on Marner because “100 regular season points don’t matter” but his 13 playoff points (more career playoff points than Matthews, Nylander and Tavares too) weren’t enough. But Tavares’ 7 playoff points and total disappearance vs. Florida? That’s perfectly fine because he’s taking a “discount”. Sorry, but it’s not “value” or a “discount” if the player absolutely sucks vs the Panthers and will continue to get worse as he enters his late 30s.
This has nothing to do with any kind of derangement syndrome. These are objective facts. Tavares was overpaid as a UFA to join the Leafs. He was given 7 years with the best group of players he had ever played with. Seven fucking years. He won nothing. Nothing as an individual, nothing significant as the leader of this team. If this team is to truly “change the DNA”, then Tavares is the first or second (after Rielly) that must be removed from the team if they want to succeed.
Stick to the Habs because clearly you didn’t watch enough of the Leafs to understand.
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Sabres appear to be ready to move on from Alex Tuch
To Buffalo
Robertson
Kampf/Jarncrok(or both for all I care)
Neimala/Steeves other prospect(Leafs have a number of prospects that they seem to have no use for)
4th round pickTo Toronto
Alex Tuch
2nd round pickTuch is a good player but acquiring Tuch will be expensive and at that price, it doesn’t help this team considering his contract situation. He’s not from Toronto and he’ll be a pending UFA. You’d basically be bringing in a guy who is a 1 year rental with little to no chance of re-signing him for cheap. To put him on the 3rd line, with 36 goals, would also not work at all. And if you put him with Matthews and he scores 40+, you have no chance of re-signing him for less than 10 million or maybe even more. The assets you would have to give up to get Tuch would stop the Leafs from being able to bring in what they really need, a 2C and a 3C who are two-way, physical, playoff style players. Those same assets should be used to acquire Jenner and McBain. You bring in two, two-way, hard hitting, 20 goal centers and the results would be way better.
Assuming the signings of Knies, Pathces and Tavares go through and Marner is gone
Try to sign Duchene/Bennet(I think Bennet contract is going to make him stupidly overpaid.
Knies Mathews Domi
McMann Duchene/Bennet Nylander
Patches Tavares Tuch
X Laughton XXXXFill the 4th line with big tough guys who can skate.
Patches should be load managed to get him to the playoffs healthy.. Play him every other gameAlternatively
Try to trade for the rights to Marco Rossi/Mason Mctavish
You are absolutely right about Bennett. He’s not going to sign in Toronto unless he’s stupidly overpaid. He won’t leave Florida.
That line-up is absolutely horrid defensively. Domi is not a top-line player and would force Matthews to have to work twice as hard defensively to make up for Domi.
That 2nd line, even worse defensively with Duchene than with Tavares. Don’t think Duchene scored a single 5v5 point in the playoffs this year. Tavares on the 3rd line is another disaster, especially with Pacioretty. You got two guys in their late 30s who are slow as molasses in January. Both that 2nd and 3rd line would be -10 each.
The Leafs lost against the Panthers because because their 2nd line got destroyed defensively and the Panthers 3rd line crushed the Leafs at both ends of the ice. Adding more defensive liabilities (while not subtracting the biggest defensive liabilities we had) and losing our best two-way forward for nothing is a recipe to get crushed in the 1st round again.
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I figure the Habs and Captain Motorbike Boy and his crew are deep into the back 9 so Captain Underpants and the Leafs are probably at the turn by now……
The boys are already back to work at the training facility.
Except this weekend of course, where they will get stupidly drunk during the Grand Prix.
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The boys are already back to work at the training facility.
Except this weekend of course, where they will get stupidly drunk during the Grand Prix.
Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they are hard at work at the ‘training facility’ if that place is a nice patio in Montreal and back to work = 12 oz curls.
I’ve been in Montreal in the summer time……the only thing working hard is guys eyes and necks with the warm weather and sundresses a plenty!
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Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure they are hard at work at the ‘training facility’ if that place is a nice patio in Montreal and back to work = 12 oz curls.
I’ve been in Montreal in the summer time……the only thing working hard is guys eyes and necks with the warm weather and sundresses a plenty!
God I love summer.
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It’s unofficially official boys, Marner is taking his purse and leaving town.
That’s a good move for both him and his family. There are some fans that detest him, and he would get caved in by fans and media alike if he signed a 12.5+, 8 year deal with the Leafs and failed to bring it in the playoffs again. It would also be a distraction for the rest of the team as well. Moving on from each other is good for BOTH of them. Just, as long as the Leafs spend that cap space wisely, IMO.
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Watch the Leafs sign Marchand and Tavares for 3yrs @ 6.5M cap hit – Dmnted
I don’t want Marchand as a Leaf ever because I have zero respect for him. I also would prefer they find the next Bennett / Marchand if they can vs grabbing one with an expiry date that is VERY soon IMO (Marchand) BUT re-upping JT and getting Marchand combined for close to or even less than Marner will get elsewhere would be a bit funny.
I am now reading and hearing non-stop that Marner’s camp outright refused to engage in conversations all season about an extension and same after the playoffs ended.
If true it sounds like Marner’s camp decided they weren’t coming back regardless and who knows when they made that decision (if true) but there is so much talk it’s hard to sift through what is the truth is and what’s just fabricated BS.
One day a long time from now I’m sure it will come out – much like Cujo expressed his regret for leaving Toronto to go to Detroit in his book & in interviews since then.
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I agree with Cush about Marchand. I know this is a hot take for some, but the guy is garbage and should have been banned from the league a long time ago. Or, if not banned, then disciplined more heavily for his dangerous dirty plays. I won’t call it anything other than that. Shenanigans, agitating, or antics downplays what he does. Just calling it “being a shit disturber” minimizes how reckless and unprofessional his bullshit is. It’s just pure luck that he hasn’t ended somebody’s career. And the dude is a coward. I’d have more respect for him if he would take a beatdown for his shit, but he won’t even drop the gloves. He just skates away with that fucking smirk on his face that has to be one of the most punchable things I have ever laid sober eyes on. Fuck that guy, fuck his mother, and fuck the horse he rode in on.
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Watch the Leafs sign Marchand and Tavares for 3yrs @ 6.5M cap hit
It would be fantastic to have players like Bennett and Marchand on the team but they’re not leaving. And they wouldn’t come for the correct amount or the correct number of years if they did.
You have to find the next ones, which I’ve been saying for years. But those are the guys you hate to play against but love to have on your team. Like Corson, Tucker, Roberts, Markov etc. We had our era of dirty, shit disturbers too. Every single Leafs fan loved every second of it. You’d be stupid not to take those types of guys because of their “history” or “reputation”. Leafs once signed Peca even after Tucker wrecked him. They were fine.
Good to see Cujo admit that leaving Toronto was a mistake. Maybe things would have been a lot different if he had stayed. We’ll never know.
Cujo was always very overrated because he was fun to watch but not as effective as he was popular. He would make easy saves look difficult mostly because he was lost in his net most of the time. It was a romantic period where the Leafs were going deep in the playoffs but he wasn’t as good as he was popular. I remember him being sub-par (at times awful) vs the Sabres, even getting out played by a rookie Dwayne Roloson when Hasek missed games. Even with the best goalie at the time out of the game, Cujo and the Leafs still crumbled to a bunch of nobodies. When he was given the net for Team Canada, he lost it quickly for good reason and was never the best goalie of his era. And when he took off, his replacement, Ed Belfour, was the best goalie the Leafs had since expansion whom had the Leafs had in his prime, probably would have gone further. Meanwhile, Cujo crumbled behind one of the best teams ever assembled because he wasn’t capable of just being calm in his net. Maybe that was his self-admitted ego / arrogance getting the best of him but if he had stayed with Toronto, they would have been no better off.
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Yall clowns can have each other. I’m out. It’s been real, but I’m moving on from sports. Sports is for fucking retards and I’m tired of being a braindead retard. Some of you are OK and I wish you well. The rest of you can fuck off into the Sun – fucks like you are what’s wrong with this world. Now go back to having deep discussions about shallow shit that doesn’t matter.
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It would be fantastic to have players like Bennett and Marchand on the team but they’re not leaving. And they wouldn’t come for the correct amount or the correct number of years if they did.
it was rumored that Bennett was either offered / was to sign an extension with Florida 8×8. Marchand was rumored to be asking for 8M as well but not sure on the length of the contract.
Finding the next Wilson/Bennett/Marchand type player going to hard for the Leafs with the lack of pick in the next few years. Teams that do have them aren’t given them up unless you overpay to acquire them.
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it was rumored that Bennett was either offered / was to sign an extension with Florida 8×8. Marchand was rumored to be asking for 8M as well but not sure on the length of the contract.
Finding the next Wilson/Bennett/Marchand type player going to hard for the Leafs with the lack of pick in the next few years. Teams that do have them aren’t given them up unless you overpay to acquire them.
~dmntedRight now, Florida has 8 forwards, 5 defenseman and 1 goalie for next year. Their farm system is exceptionally light – maybe Sourdif slots in for them next year. He’s an RFA but he’d likely come in under $1m.
But really they need to sign at least 3 forwards, 2 defenseman and a goalie. Because of Bob, they’ll probably go cheap in net and get a guy like Samsonov, or maybe re-run Lyon or Kahkonen. They have to resign RFA Samoskevich after a 15G, 31pt rookie campaign. Maybe $1.5 or $2m?
The big names here are Ekblad, Marchand and Bennett. If they decide to forego Ekblad, they can likely take a run at both Marchand and Bennett, resign Samoskevich, compliment the Forwards and have about $4m left to sign 2 defensemen. I’m guessing Schmidt is priced out considering he was an $800k reclamation project.
Their balance will definitely allow them to keep one of those names. If I were them I’d make it Ekblad.
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it was rumored that Bennett was either offered / was to sign an extension with Florida 8×8. Marchand was rumored to be asking for 8M as well but not sure on the length of the contract.
Finding the next Wilson/Bennett/Marchand type player going to hard for the Leafs with the lack of pick in the next few years. Teams that do have them aren’t given them up unless you overpay to acquire them.
The leafs have found a rareish unicorn type player in Knies. power forward. 30 goal scorer (well 29)
but Florida didnt draft Bennett or Marchard. they just plugged them into a good team. Leafs can do the same
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senstrolltwo
ParticipantThe leafs have found a rareish unicorn type player in Knies. power forward. 30 goal scorer (well 29)
but Florida didnt draft Bennett or Marchard. they just plugged them into a good team. Leafs can do the same
This site is working again…ok.
Except Marchand was inserted into the 3rd line of a well oiled machine…..the leafs arent well oiled…..and he’ll probably playing too high up in the line up….which has been a problem with the leafs for years. -
This site is working again…ok.
Except Marchand was inserted into the 3rd line of a well oiled machine…..the leafs arent well oiled…..and he’ll probably playing too high up in the line up….which has been a problem with the leafs for years.right which is why now they should add better depth with the space from Marner…and possibly Tavares.
it might not happen in one off season, but they have to start
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it was rumored that Bennett was either offered / was to sign an extension with Florida 8×8. Marchand was rumored to be asking for 8M as well but not sure on the length of the contract.
Finding the next Wilson/Bennett/Marchand type player going to hard for the Leafs with the lack of pick in the next few years. Teams that do have them aren’t given them up unless you overpay to acquire them.
Boone Jenner and Jake McBain. The “next” ones exist. Leafs just are too stupid to acquire them. They’ll throw away 10 years of 1st round picks on all the wrong players.
Severson is only entering the third season of an eight-year, $50 million contract signed as part of a sign-and-trade from the New Jersey Devils in 2023.
Humm…. did not know this was a sign-and-trade deal.It’s not happening for many reasons. The first being, the way Marner was treated, he’s leaving with one finger on each hand up. The next reason, he might not even want an 8 year deal. Like Matthews, he might go for 4 or 5 years. The final reason, sign and trades almost never happen. And the rare time that it did, it yielded a 3rd round pick. What the fuck are the Leafs going to do for a 3rd round pick? Either trade it for some useless plug or draft a useless plug. Either way, the Leafs are losing a 100 point, two-way, career playoff point leader for absolutely nothing.
Absolutely nobody should be surprised why this team can’t win a Cup for nearly 6 decades. Bad management, bad decisions, bad results. Garbage in, garbage out.
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Right now, Florida has 8 forwards, 5 defenseman and 1 goalie for next year. Their farm system is exceptionally light – maybe Sourdif slots in for them next year. He’s an RFA but he’d likely come in under $1m.
But really they need to sign at least 3 forwards, 2 defenseman and a goalie. Because of Bob, they’ll probably go cheap in net and get a guy like Samsonov, or maybe re-run Lyon or Kahkonen. They have to resign RFA Samoskevich after a 15G, 31pt rookie campaign. Maybe $1.5 or $2m?
The big names here are Ekblad, Marchand and Bennett. If they decide to forego Ekblad, they can likely take a run at both Marchand and Bennett, resign Samoskevich, compliment the Forwards and have about $4m left to sign 2 defensemen. I’m guessing Schmidt is priced out considering he was an $800k reclamation project.
Their balance will definitely allow them to keep one of those names. If I were them I’d make it Ekblad.
I agree, I’d dump Ekblad if I were Florida and forced to do so but he could come cheaper than expected. His offensive stats were pretty bad, his positive drug test my scare off some teams and his history of concussions aren’t to be forgotten either. His best days may be behind him but he may settle to take a discount to stay in a good situation on a long term deal that keeps his cap hit low.
Then again, you could sign a guy like Burns to replace him for a fraction of the price and risk, which is what I’d hope the Leafs do to solve their missing RHD problem in the short term.
Because of the tax rate in Florida, the weather, why would any of them want to leave a guaranteed winner with a window wide open to win again? Just the same way some other players took discounts already and Tampa Bay players took discounts, it’s likely these guys see a good thing and will keep it together.
They could also move guys like Rodrigues to make space for the more important pieces which would give them 22 AAV instead of 19.
Also, remember, now that Florida is a proven winner, there will be many players happy to take less to sign there to fill those “reclamation” slots like Schmidt took up so filling up the lower end of the roster could be really cheap and easy.
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I agree, I’d dump Ekblad if I were Florida and forced to do so but he could come cheaper than expected. His offensive stats were pretty bad, his positive drug test my scare off some teams and his history of concussions aren’t to be forgotten either. His best days may be behind him but he may settle to take a discount to stay in a good situation on a long term deal that keeps his cap hit low.
Then again, you could sign a guy like Burns to replace him for a fraction of the price and risk, which is what I’d hope the Leafs do to solve their missing RHD problem in the short term.
Because of the tax rate in Florida, the weather, why would any of them want to leave a guaranteed winner with a window wide open to win again? Just the same way some other players took discounts already and Tampa Bay players took discounts, it’s likely these guys see a good thing and will keep it together.
They could also move guys like Rodrigues to make space for the more important pieces which would give them 22 AAV instead of 19.
Also, remember, now that Florida is a proven winner, there will be many players happy to take less to sign there to fill those “reclamation” slots like Schmidt took up so filling up the lower end of the roster could be really cheap and easy.
~Unholy_Goalie41 year old Brent Burns is not a solution anymore. If you look at almost all underlying numbers on Carolina, he was being propped up by the forwards’ aggressive forecheck and by Slavin as a partner for 95% of his minutes. This year his giveaway totals doubled / 60 compared to previous years and his takeaway numbers shrunk. If you want to be good at defense, Brent Burns is not going to provide any modicum of a solution any more.
While I recognize that Florida could insulate him with a similarly heavy forecheck, I don’t think Zito wants guys he’s insulating. He wants guys who can contribute in the right system with the right style around them. Burns being a giveaway machine in his waning years is definitely not going to help with that. They’d be better off trying Klingberg. This is not a shot at who Brent Burns was – who was an exceptional top pair defenseman. It’s a commentary on his age and his reflective play this year.
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here are some of Doms contract projections, or value.
Tavares 7.9
Bennett 6.6
Marchand 5.1
Pkane 3.5
Tanev 2.2 (his projections look terrible)
Toews 1.9
Donato 4.2getting JT for 5 or 5.5 would be a no brainer imo.
but you could fit Marchand, Kane, Tanev and Toews for less than Marner
if those numbers were realistic -
here are some of Doms contract projections, or value.
Tavares 7.9
Bennett 6.6
Marchand 5.1
Pkane 3.5
Tanev 2.2 (his projections look terrible)
Toews 1.9
Donato 4.2getting JT for 5 or 5.5 would be a no brainer imo.
but you could fit Marchand, Kane, Tanev and Toews for less than Marner
if those numbers were realisticWhat is your source for this because they are hilariously low.
Tavares is not worth a penny more than 2 million to the Leafs. All the idiots running Marner out of town bitch about his “playoff disappearance” yet never address the issue that Tavares was offensively useless in 6 of 7 games against Florida and a constantly defensive liability in all 7 games.
Bennett is leading the playoffs in goals. There’s no chance he gets a dime less than 9 from an outside team. He’d probably take 7 or 8 in Florida because it’s a good situation.
Marchand, same as Bennett, is playing out of his mind in the Final. He’s old but a team out there looking to make a playoff run is going to throw a lot more than 5.1. No chance he joins a garbage situation like the Leafs for that price.
Patrick Kane is physically broken. He’s never healthy anymore. And he hasn’t had a good playoff run in 10 years. He’s offensively equipped to replace 60% of Marner’s offense. That price works.
Toews is going to Winnipeg and is a huge question mark after so much time away. He should be playing for the same as Pacioretty which is basically league minimum.
Tanev is overrated. Whatever he’s worth is meaningless to the Leafs. He’s only useful if he takes way less to play for his brother. Otherwise, we end up with another Kampf or Jarnkrok where the Leafs are paying way too much for a bottom-six plug.
Donato is a giant mistake waiting to happen to some stupid team. Hope it’s not the Leafs.
Nobody is going to be able to replace Marner via discounted spare parts. This team is fucked.
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the numbers are from
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6420056/2025/06/17/nhl-free-agency-wingers/?source=user_shared_articleJust value projections. not what they will get, some will get overpaid. some wont..
Tavares is worth 5 no problem, the difference between him and Marner is that one will cost 14 and provide 13 mil value and one will cost 5.5 and provide 8 mil value
Nobody is running Marner out of town, hes a big boy, he can make his own decisions.he is running his own ass out of town
Marner wont make a difference to this team winning. time to get over it and move on
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41 year old Brent Burns is not a solution anymore. If you look at almost all underlying numbers on Carolina, he was being propped up by the forwards’ aggressive forecheck and by Slavin as a partner for 95% of his minutes. This year his giveaway totals doubled / 60 compared to previous years and his takeaway numbers shrunk. If you want to be good at defense, Brent Burns is not going to provide any modicum of a solution any more.
While I recognize that Florida could insulate him with a similarly heavy forecheck, I don’t think Zito wants guys he’s insulating. He wants guys who can contribute in the right system with the right style around them. Burns being a giveaway machine in his waning years is definitely not going to help with that. They’d be better off trying Klingberg. This is not a shot at who Brent Burns was – who was an exceptional top pair defenseman. It’s a commentary on his age and his reflective play this year.
Last year he had only 56 giveaways and Orlov had 36. This year, he had 104 and Orlov had 98. I think that has more to do with a change in team style or whomever is recording the stats is doing something very different. But I mostly agree that Burns playing almost 21 min night as a top pair D is no longer feasible. That’s way too much for him at this point in his career.
But he could play 16-18 minutes and provide value in Florida or in Toronto if used in the right situations, like the PP. The Panthers already replaced Ekblad with Jones. At this point, they’re looking for somebody to be on the 2nd/3rd pair. They’ve taken guys who looked “finished” like Montour and Schmidt before and turned them completely around. I’d take Burns on the 3rd pair on the PP on 1 year deal if he’s cheap.
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the numbers are from
https://http://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6420056/2025/06/17/nhl-free-agency-wingers/?source=user_shared_articleMakes sense why it’s such garbage now.
Just value projections. not what they will get, some will get overpaid. some wont..
Terrible projections.
Tavares is worth 5 no problem, the difference between him and Marner is that one will cost 14 and provide 13 mil value and one will cost 5.5 and provide 8 mil value
Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year. Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
Nobody is running Marner out of town, hes a big boy, he can make his own decisions.he is running his own ass out of town
The media and idiots fans are definitely running him out of town, making him the scapegoat for the failures of management.
Marner wont make a difference to this team winning. time to get over it and move on
Enjoy watching Marner win a Cup somewhere else as the Leafs continue to throw away great players for nothing. Just like Kadri and Hyman, Marner will make the Leafs management and the morons who support their decisions pay for their stupidity.
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I would not pay Tavares 7.7, although, being a PPG player, he could still EASILY get that elsewhere.
My feeling is he signs for 3 years at 5.5m. This is a value contract, and a massive home town discount. I think every single Leafs fan -1 would be absolutely pumped for such a signing, and consider it a steal. Why? Because it’s a steal.
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Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year. Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
You can spout off all you want, but the value projections are based on his value-add and 74 points in 75 games and being +19 at 5v5 grants him a lot of leeway. At the end of the day, Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander were +3 against Florida at 5v5. The line struggled with Holmberg on the wing instead of Patches because it was like playing short-handed. Florida isn’t a team you go up against and handicap one of your top-2 lines.
I do think the Leafs future lies in getting a #2 centre with grit and moxy and that could push JT to the wing because at 35, he’s just not going to be the long-term centre.
In terms of the performance against Florida – he wasn’t good, but neither was Nylander. Objectively, despite getting some nice bounces, Pacioretty was slow and didn’t offer a ton defensively either – but it was a far sight better than Holmberg! But $5m isn’t expected to carry a line. You can be mad at Tavares because his $11m contract was never realized for the value it cost and what it may have cost the team. I’m certainly not going to hold it against him that his next contract may take some of that into financial consideration.
Hence the average frustration with Marner – no matter what you think of him. His value to the team was exceptional, no doubt – but it likely never crossed the $9.5m threshold on average and his play in the playoffs was all too often eclipsed by the expectations placed on him due to his exaggerated contract. When the contract was coming up, there was never any consideration from him that he could give back some of what he’d taken to the town he supposed loves so much – but rather his expectation was to seek a contract large enough to continue to cripple the organization’s flexibility. Who cares if you win as long as you get your cut of the pie? Now much of that is conjecture mixed with hyperbole but there’s enough truth in there as well that I understand why people are hoping the door hits him on the way out.
Prior to the cap no one in Toronto ever had to care if a player was overpaid. It was never a problem. But now it carries consequences.
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Tavares is Not worth a penny more than 2. He sucks balls in the playoffs vs. the Panthers, he sucks defensively and he’s old. If the goal is to save the most money, then Columbus would be winning the Cup every year.
not to many C out there in this year UFA class. I would like the Leafs to resign him. Maybe to a 6 year contract. You know, Matthew, Nylander and all also disappeared. RIGHT!!!!
When the going get tough, Marner games disappears with Waldo. I like Marner and I hope he re-sign the same contract as Matthews did.
If Marner takes to long to decide, he may not like the remaining offers on the table as the other offers have moved on.Facts are facts, Tavares sucks. It’s so funny though watching people call Marner a soft regular season only player yet he has more career playoff points than Tavares and played better against tougher competition. Tavares provides negative value in the playoffs. That’s the part that the idiots just can’t understand.
Those are your facts not mine, I think Tavares had a good year. His playoffs were ok, not spectacular but ok. I get your hate for him, Aki Berg was mine from the get go.
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You can spout off all you want, but the value projections are based on his value-add and 74 points in 75 games and being +19 at 5v5 grants him a lot of leeway. At the end of the day, Pacioretty-Tavares-Nylander were +3 against Florida at 5v5. The line struggled with Holmberg on the wing instead of Patches because it was like playing short-handed. Florida isn’t a team you go up against and handicap one of your top-2 lines.
Tavares is a career loser. He’s at 35 and he’s never won a damn thing in the NHL. The Leafs gave him the 2nd highest salary in the NHL, the captaincy and 7 years in his prime, with multiple young, offensive weapons. What did he do? He did fucking nothing. If this team truly wants to “change the DNA” of this team, Tavares is priority #1 to be removed from the team. Great human being but his time should be over.
If Pacioretty playing with Tavares and Nylander was the difference maker, why did Berube refuse to keep them together? Is he really that stupid? Tavares was offensively garbage against Florida. Put aside the defense for a moment but he did abso-fucking-lutely nothing offensively in 6 out of 7 games. That’s not value when his only benefit is his ability to score, especially on the PP. In the one game he did score goals, he also played terrible defensively and allowed the Panthers to come back.
Nylander did indeed disappear but we all know what he is so bringing back another defensive liability in Tavares and having two of the same is a dumbass idea. Wing or center, it won’t matter, Tavares will be like Duchene was for Dallas and ultimately a loser. I’d trade Nylander and keep Marner in a heartbeat but the Leafs are always better off keeping the guys under 30 and getting rid of the guys at 35+.
I do think the Leafs future lies in getting a #2 centre with grit and moxy and that could push JT to the wing because at 35, he’s just not going to be the long-term centre.
Agreed. Jenner and McBain should both be brought in to solve the short and long term problem at 2C and 3C. But if the goal is to move Tavares to the wing, they’d still be better off with Rielly Smith who is actually a reliable two-way winger, with better playoff results and an actual winner. Tavares is already useless, he’ll be total trash by time his deal is over if they give him a Tanev contract to bring his cap hit down.
In terms of the performance against Florida – he wasn’t good, but neither was Nylander. Objectively, despite getting some nice bounces, Pacioretty was slow and didn’t offer a ton defensively either – but it was a far sight better than Holmberg! But $5m isn’t expected to carry a line. You can be mad at Tavares because his $11m contract was never realized for the value it cost and what it may have cost the team. I’m certainly not going to hold it against him that his next contract may take some of that into financial consideration.
He didn’t provide value in his prime, he’s a fundamentally flawed player that doesn’t fit this team’s goal of beating Florida. Being a cheaper liability still makes him a liability. He’s not worth it even at the discount. He’s the wrong player with the wrong set of skills at the wrong age.
Hence the average frustration with Marner – no matter what you think of him. His value to the team was exceptional, no doubt – but it likely never crossed the $9.5m threshold on average and his play in the playoffs was all too often eclipsed by the expectations placed on him due to his exaggerated contract. When the contract was coming up, there was never any consideration from him that he could give back some of what he’d taken to the town he supposed loves so much – but rather his expectation was to seek a contract large enough to continue to cripple the organization’s flexibility. Who cares if you win as long as you get your cut of the pie? Now much of that is conjecture mixed with hyperbole but there’s enough truth in there as well that I understand why people are hoping the door hits him on the way out.
The reality is the market of Toronto burdens players like Marner with ridiculous taxes. He’d take the same amount home making 12 in Vegas as he would making 16.5 in Toronto. Framing that as greed is ignorant which makes sense why the average idiot buys that narrative. Do the math and you’ll see that even at 14, he’d be taking a discount compared to what he could make other places at 11 or 12.
Marner has more career playoff points than Nylander, Matthews and Tavares. Which games those points come in is what everybody is bitching about. And yet, Knies, Marner and Matthews were responsible for 1 GWG each against Florida. Marner was defensively sound in keeping Florida’s top line in check. He’s in his prime. He’s a 100 point, two-way winger. The media is squawking they can’t afford to keep him but the reality is they can’t afford to lose him for nothing. You won’t be able to replace him with better players at a lower cost and expect to beat Florida.
Prior to the cap no one in Toronto ever had to care if a player was overpaid. It was never a problem. But now it carries consequences.
Trade Rielly, tell Tavares to fuck off. There are other ways to save cap space. Just because some fans are too stupid to see it doesn’t mean management has to either. Hyman, Kadri, now Marner. Leafs always fuck it up.
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not to many C out there in this year UFA class. I would like the Leafs to resign him. Maybe to a 6 year contract. You know, Matthew, Nylander and all also disappeared. RIGHT!!!!
When the going get tough, Marner games disappears with Waldo. I like Marner and I hope he re-sign the same contract as Matthews did.
If Marner takes to long to decide, he may not like the remaining offers on the table as the other offers have moved on.35 years old on a 6 year contract. That’s a legendary crack head Leafs idea from the 90s. It didn’t work then, it won’t work now.
Nylander disappeared but he’s not 35. You can afford to have one Nylander. You can’t afford to have another one which is what Tavares would be but older and more useless.
Marner did not disappear. He scored a GWG and Matthews scored a GWG in Game 6, assisted by Marner. He had 1 goal and 5 points in 7 games vs Florida. McDavid has 1 goal and 7 points in 5 games vs Florida.
Those are your facts not mine, I think Tavares had a good year. His playoffs were ok, not spectacular but ok. I get your hate for him, Aki Berg was mine from the get go.
No, they are the actual facts. I don’t hate him for no good reason. He was given his time, in his prime and now his time should be finished. He’s not the right DNA. Tavares was trash against Florida. If you want the Leafs to be able to beat them and win a Cup, Tavares won’t get you there, not even at 5 million AAV. He’s old, slow, defensively garbage and disappeared offensively.
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Nylander disappeared because he was on a line with Tavares and Holmberg most of the time. Leafs need to also consider moving McMann. Not fast enough for playoff hockey. As a 20 goal scorer with size, he could get you a decent prospect or a second rounder. Guys like McMann are fairly easy to find. Getting prospects is a must, with having no first rounders for 3 years. Time to toughen up and get ready for war in the playoffs. Leafs only have a 2 year window to make it to the finals, before the young and up and coming teams in the Atlantic arrive.
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this is how we quote here right? lol
So, McDavid needs to come alive. The end.
Yeah it needs to be worked out. I’m not sure that they’ve had an official rollout yet, but I read that they just got the go ahead for advertising, so maybe some changes are in the works.
Looks like Edmonton is stone cold dead. Their goaltending has been their undoing for 4 years now, but they don’t seem to fix it. By the time they do, their window will have passed. McDavid’s next contract is a couple of year out and he may decide to leave, if they don’t address their problems in net. Leafs could help them, but they better be ready to anti up and give a top prospect or a first for someone like Stolarz. I think that Woll can carry the ball, for the Leafs. The Leafs seem to have a lot of goaltending prospects coming through the system right now. You have to give something to get something.
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Yeah it needs to be worked out. I’m not sure that they’ve had an official rollout yet, but I read that they just got the go ahead for advertising, so maybe some changes are in the works.
Looks like Edmonton is stone cold dead. Their goaltending has been their undoing for 4 years now, but they don’t seem to fix it. By the time they do, their window will have passed. McDavid’s next contract is a couple of year out and he may decide to leave, if they don’t address their problems in net. Leafs could help them, but they better be ready to anti up and give a top prospect or a first for someone like Stolarz. I think that Woll can carry the ball, for the Leafs. The Leafs seem to have a lot of goaltending prospects coming through the system right now. You have to give something to get something.
ffs my real name is Bruce Locke so this “block” thing is playing with me a bit lol
Anyways lol
As much as I hate to say this, but Edmonton not scoring does not get any excuse. Even when Hyman is done you still have enough character to open up the ice for McDavid and Draisaitl, and if those two aren’t scoring the problem is coaching.
10 players are non stop physical bombs while 2 players are offensive. Why is that not being attempted at this point?
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As much as I hate to say this, but Edmonton not scoring does not get any excuse. Even when Hyman is done you still have enough character to open up the ice for McDavid and Draisaitl, and if those two aren’t scoring the problem is coaching.
10 players are non stop physical bombs while 2 players are offensive. Why is that not being attempted at this point?
Sounds familiar? We saw this in round 2. Oh, for one of those breakaways going in during overtime in Game 3. Reminds me of Matt Frattin in Game 7 against Boston in the Phaneuf/Kessel years. If he scores to make it a 4 goal lead, the Leafs probably win that series and the roster doesn’t get deconstructed.
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The Division of Death, the Atlantic, is the toughest division in hockey. Even the bottom-feeder teams are tough outs. 5 teams got in and all 5 played hard. It’s why it’s so hard to get to the finals, if you’re in the Atlantic. Leafs still have an opportunity to get there, but only about 2 years to achieve it. Montreal, Ottawa, Detroit and even Buffalo are improved and could get in next year. Tampa, Toronto and Florida are still the class, but not for long. Time to get the draft and free agency dealt with and see where the Leafs are positioned at the end of the 25-26 season.
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The Division of Death, the Atlantic, is the toughest division in hockey. Even the bottom-feeder teams are tough outs. 5 teams got in and all 5 played hard. It’s why it’s so hard to get to the finals, if you’re in the Atlantic. Leafs still have an opportunity to get there, but only about 2 years to achieve it. Montreal, Ottawa, Detroit and even Buffalo are improved and could get in next year. Tampa, Toronto and Florida are still the class, but not for long. Time to get the draft and free agency dealt with and see where the Leafs are positioned at the end of the 25-26 season.
What the leafs do in the next couple of years will be interesting… after that it’s going to truly influence Matthews wanting to resign in Toronto or not, especially after Marner truly setting the “all-star walking as a free agent” acceptance this year.
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I dont get the feeling better because the leafs took the panthers to 7 games, it didnt feel like a close series, Leafs got crushed a lot of the time (like every other team the panthers played).
10 years is enough to see major issues and big changes needed.Tavares scored 2 goals in the series just as much as Mitch and Matthews combined. but really who gives a shit.
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Tavares scored 2 goals in the series just as much as Mitch and Matthews combined. but really who gives a shit.
In a game 2 loss (that he was shit defensively in), not a win. Also on the ice for the most goals against but who gives a shit, just keep bringing back the same old, slow, garbage DNA that disappeared in 6 out of 7 games.
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So JT scored as many goals by himself vs Florida than Marner and Matthews combined but he’s trash apparently?
Fascinating!
Oh and a reminder to some, the back to back Cup Champs didn’t have a single player anywhere near 100 points nor even 50 goals for that matter.
IN fact the Panthers didn’t have a single player who scored even 40 goals (highest was Reinhart at 39 goals) nor anyone near 100 points (again Reinhart with 81 points led the team).
After Reinhart the next highest goal scorer was Sam Bennett with 25 goals.
https://www.nhl.com/panthers/stats/20242025/2
The crying and whining about the Leafs being doomed because they are “losing a 100 point player for nothing” is just chicken little talk.
Beyond that what exactly are the Leafs supposed to do when the player and his agent flat out say they don’t want to negotiate during the season and then go radio silent when the Leafs season ends?
To me the narrative isn’t that the Leafs are “letting him go for nothing” (we know they tried to trade him once for sure and he nixed that deal), it’s Mitch walking away and jamming it to this team and fanbase – again. Sure he is exercising his right and that’s fine but to position him as the victim in all this and the Leafs and the fanbase as the bad guys is just a joke.
Teams that build a balanced roster, get good to great goaltending, have a good system and stick to that system have success in today’s NHL. Loading up on offense doesn’t work – the Oilers have proven it twice in the cup finals now and the Leafs for several years in rounds 1 and once in a while 2.
Bye Mitch and good luck wherever you end up but this is the start of Tre having the flexibility of 13-14 M in cap space to really start to fix what is wrong here, I hope he can & getting JT to come back and finish his career as a Leaf at a team friendly price would be a great start.
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The Core Four in Games 5, 6, and 7 from 2019-2025
Nylander – 20 Games Played, 8 Goals, and 8 Assists
Matthews – 18 Games Played, 8 Goals and 4 Assists
Tavares – 17 Games Played, 5 Goals and 5 Assists
Marner – 20 Games Played, 0 Goals, and 7 Assistsjfc Mitch just shrivels up. cant have it both ways, want to be paid like the best of the best, but you have to help (lead) the team to success. softie passenger once the series gets tougher
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jfc Mitch just shrivels up. cant have it both ways, want to be paid like the best of the best, but you have to help (lead) the team to success. softie passenger once the series gets tougher – senstrolltwo
I mean NONE of those stats are good enough from any of the core really and we all know what the results have been but Marner’s just jump out so much more.
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Florida going back to back was inevitable, I’ve been saying it since well before the playoffs started.
Oilers made history, though. They had the most time trailing games in finals history. Both the games they won were in OT, and one was after being gifted a PP for a puck over the glass. This series wasn’t as close as it looked, an absolute blowout.
The Leafs got lucky. They jumped on Florida early and caught them unprepared. But Florida just grinds teams down, and would have beaten any team in a 7 game series. Is there a team in the past decade (or two) that could beat this Florida team?
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Unholy_Goalie
Participant
McDavid only 1 (meaningless) goal in the series. At least the 1 goal that Marner and Matthews scored were GWGs.And the Leafs took them to Game 7.
But definitely blow up the team.
That’s gonna work wonders.
Mitch is gone, quite your whining. He is choosing to leave
Oh and the below has been posted many times before…but its worth a look again
From cush
The Core Four in Games 5, 6, and 7 from 2019-2025Nylander – 20 Games Played, 8 Goals, and 8 Assists
Matthews – 18 Games Played, 8 Goals and 4 Assists
Tavares – 17 Games Played, 5 Goals and 5 Assists
Marner – 20 Games Played, 0 Goals, and 7 Assists7 assists. GARBAGE.
In fact, for the amount of money being spent on all four….they’re all garbage results. Specially MArner and Matthews. Simply arent playoff warriors. -
Welcome back.
What are the chances you can reverse some of the bans at the “other” site?
not my ability.
And also they aren’t bans I’ve handed out just to be clear.
I’ve also touched base with Ek asking for explanations and I just get ignored so as far as I’m concerned I can’t care, especially considering I’m not paid.
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Dozzer
Participant
What the leafs do in the next couple of years will be interesting… after that it’s going to truly influence Matthews wanting to resign in Toronto or not, especially after Marner truly setting the “all-star walking as a free agent” acceptance this year.At this point why would the leafs want him back for even more money?
Im kinda tired of seeing him in a leafs jersey anyway, unless he leads this team to a cup in the next 4 years, Im perfectly fine with him leaving. -
At this point why would the leafs want him back for even more money?
Im kinda tired of seeing him in a leafs jersey anyway, unless he leads this team to a cup in the next 4 years, Im perfectly fine with him leaving.i get what you’re saying after that last season however he openly admitted to playing hurt all year as well.
I’m honestly thinking he knew that if this past season didn’t play out Marner would be gone so he played through the injury. Because of this I’m willing to give him next season before I set an opinion about this.
Does the Matthews before this past season come back? Or do we see another season similar to this one? That’s the question in my head right now.
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The core 4 all lack that killer instinct that players like McDavid, Drai, Marchand, and Reinhart all have. Those guys passionately hate to lose, our guys just kinda like to win maybe if it works out. Mitch is gone, that much is known. Now where do we go from here.
I still believe in what is left of the core. This upcoming season is going to be a step back, there is almost no way to avoid that. But Tre has to find a way to bring in a difference maker in the next two years. Obviously, the #1 option is McDavid. I was certain he’d re-sign once Drai did, but after the way things went last night, he may finally realize that Edmonton is capped out, have HUGE holes to fill, and people just generally don’t want to play there. The Leafs are closer to a cup than just about any team out there, and he probably knows he’s got what it would take to put this team over the top. It’s a long shot, but not outside the realm of possibility.
Since option #1 is a long shot, now Tre has to earn his money. This years UFA class is thin, but in a year there are some heavy hitters. Very curious to see how things shake out.
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Mitch is gone, quite your whining. He is choosing to leave
Oh and the below has been posted many times before…but its worth a look again
From cush
The Core Four in Games 5, 6, and 7 from 2019-2025Nylander – 20 Games Played, 8 Goals, and 8 Assists
Matthews – 18 Games Played, 8 Goals and 4 Assists
Tavares – 17 Games Played, 5 Goals and 5 Assists
Marner – 20 Games Played, 0 Goals, and 7 Assists7 assists. GARBAGE.
In fact, for the amount of money being spent on all four….they’re all garbage results. Specially MArner and Matthews. Simply arent playoff warriors. -fakechangeEnjoy watching this, 2.0.
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The core 4 all lack that killer instinct that players like McDavid, Drai, Marchand, and Reinhart all have. Those guys passionately hate to lose, our guys just kinda like to win maybe if it works out. Mitch is gone, that much is known. Now where do we go from here.
You throw the names of McDavid and Draisaitl in there but they didn’t get the job done either. McDavid only had 1 goal in the series. He’s the best player in the world and Florida still stopped him. Florida also kept Kucherov, the MVP and Art Ross winner, to 0 goals the past 2 playoff runs. That should tell you how good Florida is, not the lack of a “killer instinct of the core” when the Leafs, specifically Matthews, Marner and Knies, each had a GWG against Florida and pushed them further than any other team this playoffs.
I still believe in what is left of the core.
If you still believe in Rielly and Tavares as part of the core, I have a bridge to sell you. Nylander can’t handle the load, especially defensively, that Marner had to carry. And without Marner, Matthews and the PP will suffer.
This upcoming season is going to be a step back, there is almost no way to avoid that. But Tre has to find a way to bring in a difference maker in the next two years. Obviously, the #1 option is McDavid. I was certain he’d re-sign once Drai did, but after the way things went last night, he may finally realize that Edmonton is capped out, have HUGE holes to fill, and people just generally don’t want to play there. The Leafs are closer to a cup than just about any team out there, and he probably knows he’s got what it would take to put this team over the top. It’s a long shot, but not outside the realm of possibility.
If the Leafs let Marner walk and bring back Tavares and Rielly, they are nowhere near winning a Cup. They’ll be lucky to make it out of the 1st round.
So the Leafs can’t afford Marner but they’ll bring in McDavid at what will be the highest salary in history. If McDavid knew what was good for him, he’d never play in Toronto after what they’ve done to their own and after the garbage they keep bringing back.
Since option #1 is a long shot, now Tre has to earn his money. This years UFA class is thin, but in a year there are some heavy hitters. Very curious to see how things shake out.
It won’t be curious. This team is managed by morons. Treliving won’t do a damn thing to move this team forward just like he failed in Calgary.
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14mil vs 8.6
mitchy not a good use of that cap…if you want to win in the playoffs that is
10.9 AAV is 5.1 taken home in Toronto. 8.6 is 5.5 taken home in Florida.
If Reinhart was a UFA this year, he’d be asking for 16 AAV from the Leafs and 12 AAV from Florida. He became a UFA at the wrong time.
Everybody also said “you can’t win a Cup spending 10 million on a goalie” when they signed Bob. Guess they could. Twice.
Stay dense.
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If Reinhart was a UFA this year, he’d be asking for 16 AAV from the Leafs and 12 AAV from Florida. He became a UFA at the wrong time.
Everybody also said “you can’t win a Cup spending 10 million on a goalie” when they signed Bob – The Goof
Here he is again – trying to disguise his opinion and hypotheticals as facts. I feel like he thinks if he posts crap in great lengths, folks won’t bother reading it all. I am impressed he’s only using 2 alts in here so far. So maybe he’s growing up? No more nuggies and Mountain Dew – now full tenders and Pepsi!…his mommy still cuts the tenders for him obviously – let’s not get crazy.
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the NHL doesn’t doesn’t care about this. It’s moot point as the NHL will not fix this.
I’m not saying the NHL does care or will fix it. But the players care about what they take home and that factors into what they ask for from certain teams.
People can’t sit there and pretend like the guys in Florida are “good boys taking discounts” and players signing in Toronto are “greedy” because the reality of what they take home is different than the cap hit.
This boils down to the Leafs absolutely sucking at drafting, developing and managing their assets. They traded 10 years of 1st round picks away, they don’t develop enough impact players, they let their best players walk for nothing and they bring back garbage players because they’ll take a “discount” so they can afford to sign more garbage players.
Garbage in, garbage out.
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UG
Enjoy watching this, 2.0.Watching what?
Marner becoming a second/third liner on another team and riding the goat tails of actual playoff performers to a cup victory?No team close in the hunt for cup will sign marner to the contract he wants. If he wants $13 – 14m, he’ll sign with team thats still 3 – 4 years out.
Marner is gone.
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the NHL doesn’t doesn’t care about this. It’s moot point as the NHL will not fix this.
It’s a shame. It’s not just the Canadian teams that suffer, but the Rangers, Isles, Devils, etc, play in Blue, overtaxed states. Bettman is a clown, to allow this to continue. He’d rather do fellatio on the new bidder for the Atlanta Stars and Bars, than fix this inequity and keep another Canadian franchise from gaining entry into the NHL. He needs to leave now!
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Watching what?
Marner becoming a second/third liner on another team and riding the goat tails of actual playoff performers to a cup victory?No team close in the hunt for cup will sign marner to the contract he wants. If he wants $13 – 14m, he’ll sign with team thats still 3 – 4 years out.
Marner is gone.
Get over it.Watching you be wrong, as usual.
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Here he is again – trying to disguise his opinion and hypotheticals as facts. I feel like he thinks if he posts crap in great lengths, folks won’t bother reading it all.
pretty much, “They traded 10 years of 1st round picks”
the leafs have had a 1st round pick in 7 of the last 10 drafts. And the 3 they didn’t, these were the 3 first picks Robertson, Knies and Minton.The leafs drafting is average and probably a little better than the average team.
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It’s a shame. It’s not just the Canadian teams that suffer, but the Rangers, Isles, Devils, etc, play in Blue, overtaxed states. Bettman is a clown, to allow this to continue. He’d rather do fellatio on the new bidder for the Atlanta Stars and Bars, than fix this inequity and keep another Canadian franchise from gaining entry into the NHL. He needs to leave now!
The Leafs fucked themselves with the Tavares contract. They have nobody to blame but themselves. They’ll make the same mistake again by keeping him for a 2nd futile contract and not trading Rielly.
They trade 10 years worth of 1st round picks, they can’t draft or develop enough impact players and they let great players leave for nothing.
Leafs are run by idiots. Different names, same results.
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the NHL doesn’t doesn’t care about this. It’s moot point as the NHL will not fix this.
its also far more complex.
For instance look at someone like Matthews. He took $14.43 million on July 1st while living in Arizona as a bonus at 39.5% taxation. He earned only $775K throughout the season.
During the season you are paid game by game. So the only location he is paid high earning is Ontario where he plays 43 games (2 in Ottawa). So he has to pay 53.53% on $406,402.44 which equals $217,547.23.
The remainder of the $368,597.56 basically doesn’t get taxed at all because it’s broken down over all the states and provinces into low earnings. 4 games in Florida during a season is a big one for instance and that’s still just $37,804.88.
He only makes $9,451.22 a game at league minimum. So if you’re wondering why bonuses are used, this is why. My curiousity is how the bonus is being used, those ways are what is beyond what I know lol
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Changing gears for a moment if I was a Sens fan I don’t think I’d want to see this. Sure it’s your brother but no shot I’d want him on camera, this happy about going to party with THAT team. I mean how can you not think the recruiting of Brady doesn’t go into high gear from the Panthers players while they all get drunk AF after a cup win and he can’t look at that and think “ya, I want this with my brother instead of living and playing in Ottawa”.
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pretty much, “They traded 10 years of 1st round picks”
the leafs have had a 1st round pick in 7 of the last 10 drafts. And the 3 they didn’t, these were the 3 first picks Robertson, Knies and Minton.The leafs drafting is average and probably a little better than the average team.
Wrong again, as usual.
2009 – Kadri, traded for garbage. Won a Cup.
2015 – Marner, will walk for nothing. Traded down from 24th to pick Dermott and Bracco, passed on Konecny.
2017 – Liljegren – Traded for Matt Benning; no impact player.
2018 – Sandin – Traded for future 1st round pick. Still no impact player.
2019 – No 1st round pick. Traded for Muzzin. Did nothing. Got overpaid. Retired broken. Drafted Robertson. He mostly sucks, not an impact player.
2020 – Traded 1st round pick to dump Marleau. Traded Kapanen for a 1st round pick. Made a bad pick, poor guy died. No impact player.
2021 – No 1st round pick. Traded for 11 games of Nick Foligno.
2022 – No 1st round pick. Traded to dump Mrazek. Drafted Minten. Traded him too.
2023 – Traded for 24 games of O’Reilly rental. Picked Cowan with the pick they got for Sandin. Still no impact player.
2024 – Traded down. Picked Danford. No impact player yet.
2025 – Traded for McCabe. 2nd pair D.
2026 – Traded for Carlo. Another 2nd pair D.
2027 – Traded for Laughton. Retarded trade.So 10+ years of 1st round picks have indeed been traded or wasted, most of them got us garbage in return. Carlo, McCabe, Laughton (1 year rental), Cowan, Danford. That’s what the Leafs have to show for 10 years of 1st round picks.
The Leafs being “average” isn’t going to win them shit especially when they throw away as many 1st round picks as they have.
Florida traded their 1st and 2nd round pick capital for Marchand and Seth Jones. That’s what your top picks are actually supposed to get you in return. Not a bunch of garbage rentals or spare parts for 10 years of trash.
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So if you’re wondering why bonuses are used, this is why. My curiousity is how the bonus is being used, those ways are what is beyond what I know lol
speaking of bonuses. JT won his case vs. The CRA as The CRA did not want to disclose the audit criteria errr something like that. So the judge dropped the case.
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speaking of bonuses. JT won his case vs. The CRA as The CRA did not want to disclose the audit criteria errr something like that. So the judge dropped the case.
For future cap crunching and tax dodging, the Leafs should set up a shell corp. in no income states, get their Canadian players US citizenship and pay them big signing bonus’ like they did with Matthews. If the NHL won’t change the rules, then the Leafs have to get creative and find ways around them.
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That why the Leafs get some of their player(s) into commercials.
Those bullshit commercials don’t pay nearly what people think they do. And again, 55% of it is taken away.
Nashville is a nice place for tax evasion since that state has no state income tax.
Utah, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Dallas, Vegas…lots of great options for players. Don’t blame them one bit for leaving because it’s by far, way better to live in all those places too.
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Unholy_Goalie
Participant
That why the Leafs get some of their player(s) into commercials.Those bullshit commercials don’t pay nearly what people think they do. And again, 55% of it is taken away.
Nashville is a nice place for tax evasion since that state has no state income tax.
Utah, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Dallas, Vegas…lots of great options for players. Don’t blame them one bit for leaving because it’s by far, way better to live in all those places too.
Paying lower taxes doesnt make a city a “better” place to live. It simply makes it better on the paycheck.
Keep taxing millionaires!!!
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UG
Florida traded their 1st and 2nd round pick capital for Marchand and Seth Jones. That’s what your top picks are actually supposed to get you in return. Not a bunch of garbage rentals or spare parts for 10 years of trash.Cool. Lucky for florida those two players mentioned only wanted to go to florida…..the leafs werent on their list. But we know that wont be included in your whining.
Also, florida was $18 – $20m over the cap, so for those who go on about how amazing they were…..well ya….they were about $18 – $20 over the cap.But the leafs have wasted most of the 1st rounders….the laughton deal was horrible
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senstrolltwo
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this was my post, reponse to horseyWillie and Marners 5v5 stats were almost the same
on ice goals 11-8 and 10-8 in almost the same 200mins in the playoffs.pretty much every other stats are very similar.
i feel such shame
Yowzer, those are harsh words.
How long is the punishment? -
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A while back I got the usual ban screen when I tried to post.
My offending post was asking Ek if he isn’t supposed to do his April Fool’s post before noon.
Which, actually banning everyone who posted in response to an April Fool’s post would have been very funny if it was intentional. But I don’t know what it was.LEAAAFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
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How do you guys actually know you’re banned? I keep getting asked to verify my HB account, but there is no mention of a ban. I would think it was just a website glitch, but Dozzer did mention I had received a 30 day ban. That should have been over three weeks ago, though
when you try to post it tells you.
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As Bruce (Dozzer) mentioned, there is a rogue mod on HB deleting posts/blogs and banning people. There isn’t a tool to see who did it. Just that somebody got banned and for how long. EK has the computer literacy of a 5 year old and he’s apparently been in an accident and recovering along with being a lying cumbag. It might just be him, who knows?
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That’s the weird thing about mine then. It never says I’m banned, it just asks me to verify my HB account with my cell number. And, according to Dozzer’s inside information, my ban should have been over by now.
thats odd then, I remember having to do that when you first sign up
my account was banned until August 10
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That’s the weird thing about mine then. It never says I’m banned, it just asks me to verify my HB account with my cell number. And, according to Dozzer’s inside information, my ban should have been over by now.
Just looked you up Whipper, your ban ended at the beginning of this month. Once you figure out how to get logged in you’ll be good to go.
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Can anyone see the image I posted above? I can’t seem to post images here at all regardless of if I try it on my phone or pc.
If not I got banned too.
For posting this: Ek posting a Mc Jesus to LA rumour the day after the Oilers lose in the cup finals seems a bit cruel.
Banned until Sept 16th lmao.
That was a joke that clearly someone didn’t find funny….how sad.
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Can anyone see the image I posted above? I can’t seem to post images here at all regardless of if I try it on my phone or pc.
If not I got banned too.
For posting this: Ek posting a Mc Jesus to LA rumour the day after the Oilers lose in the cup finals seems a bit cruel.
Banned until Sept 16th lmao.
That was a joke that clearly someone didn’t find funny….how sad.
I can see it, not there but here of course. Who is doing it is beyond me tho ????????♂️
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I can see it, not there but here of course. Who is doing it is beyond me tho ????????♂️- Dozzer
Thanks for clarifying you can see it – maybe it’s the settings on my work pc.
The bans seem so random but that place is such a hot mess anyway and as you know all too well has been for a Loooooooooooooooooong time.
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Cush29
Participant
Can anyone see the image I posted above? I can’t seem to post images here at all regardless of if I try it on my phone or pc.If not I got banned too.
For posting this: Ek posting a Mc Jesus to LA rumour the day after the Oilers lose in the cup finals seems a bit cruel.
Banned until Sept 16th lmao.
That was a joke that clearly someone didn’t find funny….how sad.
WTF…you got banned for that?
I swear, someone made AA a mod and he’s drunk with power. LOL
But honestly, I was going to call out that rumour as well with roll eyes emoji or something like that….but I thought I would get banned. But instead I got banned for “Frank Maurice.” -
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Thanks for clarifying you can see it – maybe it’s the settings on my work pc.
The bans seem so random but that place is such a hot mess anyway and as you know all too well has been for a Loooooooooooooooooong time.
it became a hot mess when they thought it was wise to make me a mod lol ????
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I just got banned for asking if the banning was continuing and pointing out that it got pretty stupid before the playoffs started…
I just asked in the remainder of the unblocked blogs if they were going to be blocked.
The ghost of a controller over there is a lame ass joke. At least be out in the open.
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It’s just weird. Is it someone with a grudge? How come that nonsense hasn’t been stopped. The whole thing is kind of comical.
No idea who it is, I have suspicions but I won’t bring them up. I’ve openly asked Ek to be bumped up from just being a typical mod to being the type who has the ability to kick people off the site who no longer mod or blog there so they no longer have banning ability, and release the bans on those those who shouldn’t be banned, basically clean up the site. He doesn’t answer though so there isn’t much else I can do.
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