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Re: UG
I have no clue who is going to come in and why they would want to, that’s Tre’s job. You’re probably not going to replace Marner’s 100 points, even if you replace him with two guys, but that doesn’t necessarily make this team worse.
Regarding JT vs Marner and disappearing acts, yes, I would much rather be paying JT $5M to disappear vs Marner at $14M to disappear.
The main point I was trying to make was that Marner is going to choose to leave no matter what the Leafs do, so they have to pivot.
I have no clue who is going to come in and why they would want to, that’s Tre’s job. You’re probably not going to replace Marner’s 100 points, even if you replace him with two guys, but that doesn’t necessarily make this team worse.
Well let me give you an insight into Tre’s job; there’s nobody out there. The guys you want won’t sign here, they will stay with Florida. The guys you can convince to come here will be paying more taxes, dealing with more pressure and you have to overpay to come here like they did with Tavares who “took a discount” and still ended up being the 2nd highest paid player in the league.
Regarding JT vs Marner and disappearing acts, yes, I would much rather be paying JT $5M to disappear vs Marner at $14M to disappear.
Marner helped win 2 games against Florida. Tavares won 0. Probably lost them at least one with his defensive ineptitude. Sorry, I’m paying the player in his prime who is showing he makes YOUR BEST SCORER BETTER and NOT the guy on the WRONG SIDE of 35 just because he wears Leafs jammies and comes at a “discount”.
As I showed in the other thread, the Leafs top line went tit for tat with Florida’s top line. It was Tavares’ line that got caved in more often than not. So, if your goal is to beat Florida, you keep that 1st line the way it is and change everything else. That’s what a logical person would do.
Fuck. Tavares.
The main point I was trying to make was that Marner is going to choose to leave no matter what the Leafs do, so they have to pivot.
Marner is not going to leave unless they push him out the door. Matthews doesn’t want him gone. Berube doesn’t want him gone. Marner doesn’t want to leave. If he did, he would have accepted the trade to Carolina, taken the contract, had less idiot fans screaming at him for things that aren’t his fault and still be in the playoffs right now. Clearly, he does not want to choose to leave unless forced to do so.
If Marner truly wanted to stay, why wouldn’t they already have worked out an extension? It’s six weeks till he’s a UFA, I think he tests the market.
If he stays, how long do we keep running back the same team before we realize it’s fucking insanity?
And what would you do to get this team to the next level?
If Marner truly wanted to stay, why wouldn’t they already have worked out an extension? It’s six weeks till he’s a UFA, I think he tests the market.
Because I believe he wants the team to get rid of the passengers. He also doesn’t want to get ripped off by taking some kind of discount only to get stuck with the same pylons.
Also, playing in Toronto means if he gets 13 million per year, he’s actually taking home 6.158 million. If he had gone to Carolina, he’d make 7.7 million. Over 8 years, that’s a 12.4 million dollar difference. That’s not pocket change. He doesn’t have the benefit of Matthews who collects 90% of his money in Arizona.
If he stays, how long do we keep running back the same team before we realize it’s fucking insanity?
Getting rid of the entire bottom-six, Tavares and Rielly is not “running it back”. You keep your best players, you change the rest. The D (minus Rielly), the goaltending and the top line, works. The rest, must change.
And what would you do to get this team to the next level?
You keep your best players and you add what you can. Eventually, Florida will cap itself out and Bob will get old. Just like Boston did. Tampa Bay is already on the way down. The rest of the division is either too weak or too young to threaten us just like this team was when they first tried to beat Washington and Boston.
My initial idea is this…
Morgan Rielly $7.5 M
to VAN for Teddy Blueger $1.8 M + Tyler Myers $3.0 M + sign Brian Dumoulin $2 M
OR ALTERNATIVELY
to SEA for Jamie Oleksiak $4.6 + sign Sean Kuraly $1.5 M + sign Brent Burns $2 M
Calle Jarnkrok $2.1 M + David Kampf $2.4 M to CBJ for Boone Jenner $3.8 M
McMann $1.4M for Pospisil $1 M
Mitchell Marner
$13,160,000 × 8 yearsMatthew Knies
$6,500,000 × 3 yearsReilly Smith
$5,000,000 × 3 yearsBrian Dumoulin OR Brent Burns
$2,000,000 × 2 yearsSean Kuraly OR Blueger @ $1,800,000 in the Rielly trade.
$1,500,000 x 2 yearsBrandon Tanev
$900,000 × 2 yearsSteven Lorentz
$900,000 × 2 yearsMax Pacioretty
$900,000 × 1 yearsKnies | Matthews | Marner
Smith | Jenner | Nylander
Domi | Laughton | Tanev
Pacioretty | Blueger OR Kuraly | Pospisil
LorentzOEL | Tanev
McCabe | Carlo
Dumoulin | Myers OR Oleksiak | BurnsWoll | Stolarz
That is my first glance at the UFA / trade possibilities.
This team is larger, tougher, meaner in the bottom-six and on the blueline. Adding some motivated veterans. Some, with Cup experience, others, with hunger for a last chance.
A huge part of the Panther success right now is that their blue line jumps into the rush better than anyone. Jones killed us ..Ekblad is always jumping in …last night I’m watching Mikkola jump by wingers and drive the net. Maurice is a beauty.
@Uggie …if MM signs for that then I agree, do it. No way Jarnkrok and Kampf get you Jenner though …that’s a dream. Krok gets his bonus July 1 and then you can move him for a 5th rounder …maybe. Kampf gets his bonus on July 1 then maybe you snag a career AHL’er for him b/c there’s dozens of Kampf’s available this summer for $1M and he costs twice that.
If Rielly will move on …perfect. I don’t need much back at all just to move that contract. Lots of better and/or cheaper options available.
Tanev needs to be a Leaf.
@ UG
Brandon Tanev
$900,000 × 2 yearsno way he take this type $$ as his current expiring contract is $3.5M
perhaps 2.5M but not 900K imo.
Lawsie
Participant
A huge part of the Panther success right now is that their blue line jumps into the rush better than anyone. Jones killed us ..Ekblad is always jumping in …last night I’m watching Mikkola jump by wingers and drive the net. Maurice is a beauty.@Uggie …if MM signs for that then I agree, do it. No way Jarnkrok and Kampf get you Jenner though …that’s a dream. Krok gets his bonus July 1 and then you can move him for a 5th rounder …maybe. Kampf gets his bonus on July 1 then maybe you snag a career AHL’er for him b/c there’s dozens of Kampf’s available this summer for $1M and he costs twice that.
If Rielly will move on …perfect. I don’t need much back at all just to move that contract. Lots of better and/or cheaper options available.
Tanev needs to be a Leaf.
The biggest part of the panthers success is that their bottom 6 contributes on the scoresheet…..the leafs bottom 6 really dont that much.
The leafs lack quality depth because so much of their cap is tied up in 5 soft players (MM, AM, Willy, JT and MR)…the four forwards are very similar…too similar and all want to outdo the other and be the top guy. Not a team.
The leafs have to free up money for better depth. ITs been 10 years with these 4 players (AM, MM, Willy and MR)….and they’ve had no post season success. They need change. Big change.
Also, leafs management and coaching staff are relatively large compared to others…..line that out as well. Too many opinions and wasted money.Morgan Rielly $7.5 M
to VAN for Teddy Blueger $1.8 M + Tyler Myers $3.0 M + sign Brian Dumoulin $2 M
OR ALTERNATIVELY
to SEA for Jamie Oleksiak $4.6 + sign Sean Kuraly $1.5 M + sign Brent Burns $2 M
Calle Jarnkrok $2.1 M + David Kampf $2.4 M to CBJ for Boone Jenner $3.8 M
McMann $1.4M for Pospisil $1 M
Mitchell Marner
$13,160,000 × 8 yearsMatthew Knies
$6,500,000 × 3 yearsReilly Smith
$5,000,000 × 3 yearsBrian Dumoulin OR Brent Burns
$2,000,000 × 2 yearsSean Kuraly OR Blueger @ $1,800,000 in the Rielly trade.
$1,500,000 x 2 yearsBrandon Tanev
$900,000 × 2 yearsSteven Lorentz
$900,000 × 2 yearsMax Pacioretty
$900,000 × 1 years
UGTanev isnt signing for $900…he’s 33 and currently makes $3.5m…..minimum would be 2.5-3m per.
Dumoulin also makes over $3m per currently and is 33.
Reilly smith had 29pts last year…..$5m per for that? Thats a bad contract….he’s also 34
Marner turned 13.5 x 8 …..but all of a sudden he’s going to take 13.1? Dont offer him anymore than 12 per.Its just not reality.
The leafs dont have to replace marners points this off season and it wont be replaced by 1 person. It could partially be replaced by one UFA, this off season and another at the TDL or next off season. The crop of UFAs seem a little better next year if they make it to UFA (I think Mcdavid signs and extension with the oilers)Morgan has to be moved out and you are not getting value for him.
Calle Jarnkrok $2.1 M + David Kampf $2.4 M to CBJ for Boone Jenner $3.8 M
~UGOh, come on. You can’t be serious.
Morgan Rielly is going to be wearing a Leaf sweater for three more years, and the sooner we all accept that the better off we’ll be. Whipper
If he chooses to go it wouldn’t be for spare parts. He still would get a reasonable return. He’s an “offensive” dman with 3 years signed for fair value. A team out there would take him as a way to hope he pushes them to the playoffs.
The biggest part of the panthers success is that their bottom 6 contributes on the scoresheet…..the leafs bottom 6 really dont that much. – Fakey
For whatever reason all the depth scoring dried up beyond round 1 pretty much. However, I thought Tree was “masterful” in changing this part of the roster? ( You didn’t say that. I am just stating how others believe it was the best)
My opinion is it’s shuffling deck chairs and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.
Anyway, same as all the other times. I rather have the last 9 years than the previous 9 years of futility before it. Playoffs are way more fun than being bottom feeders.
If the Panthers cruise past the Canes in 5 does that change a bit of the bad taste the Leafs fans have?
like maybe with a few tweaks they can come back stronger?
Run it back!!
~SenstrollInteresting point by Senstroll over in Shittsville, errr, HB. This is what I’ve been saying to everyone that’s been trolling me offline, (mainly Oiler fans). I said even before the playoffs started that Florida is the best team in the league and is VERY likely to go back-to-back. They should (like the Leafs would have done too), roll over Carolina and then the Cup finals may be a coin flip. Losing to the back-to-back Cup winners is nothing to scoff at. Florida is just built different, they’re built for playoff hockey and could beat just about any team in the cap-era in a 7 game series.
Ideally for me, (a long-suffering Leaf fan living in Alberta), Florida absolutely steamrolls Carolina, Dallas beats the Oilers as fast as possible, then Florida dummies Dallas. Then I can say to Oiler fans that they lost to the team that lost to the team that JUST barely beat us. (Mind you, Florida showed in games 5 and 7 just how far ahead of us they really are).
In other news, if you’re reading through the HB thread, if you just ignore any comment by ‘that guy’ or anyone responding to him, you can fly through the thread pretty quick.
Ok I’ll say it – why are we obsessing about replacing Marner’s 100 points? He played PP1 and was the set up guy at the top of the PP umbrella so he racked up assists there as well as playing on L1 99% of the season with Matthews.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to score, IMO Marner needs a sniper to score for him to rack up points.
Blaming the bottom 6 for the Leafs losing this series is about as stupid as blaming the fanbase for fuck sakes.
For anyone in love with this top 6 that’s fine they are amazing players it makes sense.
BUT
If you can’t get past that and don’t see any reason to change them enjoy never seeing this team get deeper in the playoffs than they have at this point.Just because someone thinks the core needs to be broken up and sees the 2 UFA’s as the easiest pieces to move to gain valuable cap space to strengthen the bottom 6, and toughen up the top 6 with a small change in some personnel doesn’t make them a ‘hater’ of a player, nor does it make them any less of a fan.
The entire concept of simply swapping out the bottom 6 with the belief this will allow the Leafs to success is a severly flawed plan in itself. Layer in unrealistic components of this plan such as a bottom 6 winger making 3.5M is suddenly going to agree to take 900K or that multiple players with full no movement clauses are going to magically agree to waive them just amplifies how insanely flawed this plan is.
Morgan Rielly would be great to move but it’s hard to even think he would agree to be moved for a minute.
Matthews being moved would be a colossal mistake, quite possibly the worst trade mistake the Leafs could every make in their history. Top line, 2 way centres who have shown they can score 50 or more goals are true unicorns. Should he be captain? Perhaps not but it’s the way the NHL has shifted the captaincy on most teams now where your ‘top player’ has to be your captain and it’s dumb but the Leafs couldn’t afford to not make that move really – who else did they have they could have given the C to? Rielly? They probalby should have left it with JT and then even gone with 4 A’s until it became clearer but here we are.
JT can come back on the cheap and save this team a lot of money, provide veteran leadership & retire a Leaf.
Willy just locked in for 8 years and it’s hard to think he would even consider a move – it’s obvious he loves Toronto.
I asked this before and the poster I asked it of course ignored the question but I’ll ask it again:
Who is the Mitch Marner on the most successful teams in the league? Who is Florida’s Mitch Marner for instance?
Who is their uber talented, soft and small playmaking (because he seems to have an aversion to shooting) winger making 11M and looking for 13 (likely more) per season long term who has proven to be ineffective *(like others yes)* in series clinching games and struggles mightily under that pressure?
Teams can’t afford to have a 13.5M franchise centre & 2 wingers making over 11M and balance the roster to have the grit, toughness and scoring they need to be successful in playoffs – that’s been proven by the Leafs to be an ineffective strategy.
Chicago with Towes and Kane is a great example – only having those 2 monster contracts allowed them to fill out a balanced roster with unreal supporting players, D etc.
If the Leafs re-up Marner and have Matthews at 13.5, Willy at 11 and Marner at 13 or more IMO we call all just expect to see more of the same come playoffs and that will just be the cherry on top of a wasted era.
I can’t wait to see what the situation is on July 2nd.
If this team doesn’t break up some of the core (and just losing JT isn’t making any change when you have Marner with his hand out for more and know Knies needs more because you can’t lose him) I won’t be happy at all.
If they traded Rielly and/or traded Willy and kept Marner and got a good return I’d say they parted ways with the wrong winger but I’d at least be happy they made a big move. Asking guys to waive no trade’s and having them say no is not making a move it’s exploring options, so if one or more of Marner, Willy, Rielly aren’t in a new team uniform next year then IMO the Leafs have failed and are destined to continue to not be good enough to be a top 4 team in this league.
Not sure if this will work or not – trying to post the playoff stats for this year of Marner and Willy as a pic.
Cush you make some good points.
I will say this. Management are the ones to look at this through objective eyes and make changes. I rely on them to not overreact/over correct as many fans want. I have seen many, many fans saying to rebuild it and move Matthews because “he’s shit”.
Like let’s try to be positive? Leafs have 9 consecutive years in the playoffs, including years they weren’t expected to make it. They also have shit the bed a bunch too.
Recently they’ve lost to the panthers 2 out of 3 years in the 2nd round. Florida is becoming a “dynasty” type team. It still sucks and you gotta beat the best but this is where I have to agree I don’t see the killer instinct. Leafs had plenty of chances, like the Canadian division to make a run and couldn’t muster that instinct.
As for Rielly, I wouldn’t be opposed if he decided to leave or stay. Doesn’t matter to me. JT can come back. He’s been an effective 2nd liner, just needs a cheap contract. Marner I think he explores the free agency but who really will pay him 14 million?
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