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No, it makes them a lot weaker. Leafs could easily go from 108 points down to 98 points and fighting for a wild card spot. The division isn’t just going to crumble next year.
For starters, Matthews won’t be happy. Going from Marner to Domi is a massive, giant downgrade. You want your 69 goal scorer to score 69 goals? You keep his #1 elite playmaker. Remember, his contract expires in 3 years. You won’t keep him if he’s not happy.
Secondly, the PP suffers, which is already shit and run by an idiot. Taking away a passing weapon like Marner makes it even harder to set-up Matthews on the PP.
Third, the defense / PK suffers because Marner is a Selke candidate who kills penalties, steals pucks and prevents goals.
If the Leafs don’t win the division again (without Marner, they won’t), they risk losing to the Panthers in the 1st round. Or even Tampa Bay. Ottawa won’t be an easy out either. Neither is an up and coming Montreal team. Just because Boston fell off the map, doesn’t mean the regular season and the division don’t matter anymore. The worse the match-up, the less likely they can win a playoff round, much less multiple rounds.
And if you go down the list of UFAs, the vast majority of them are garbage in the playoffs, including Tavares who did not score a point in 6 out of 7 games against Florida and will only get worse defensively at 35+. So as much as people want to make BeLeaf they can just replace Marner with UFA playoff Gods, they are indeed dreaming. The playoff performers out there are either 35+ (Giroux, Kane, Toews etc.) or going to stay where they are (Bennett, Marchand in Florida) if they know what is good for them.
~UGNever winning a thing because you sunk all your money into 3-4 guys who all play the same way and don’t have the balls to stand up when it counts is another sure way to lose your players. If the Leafs had insulated Marner with size and given him his own line to drive instead of putting him with Matthews, maybe the fanbase doesn’t scapegoat him and maybe he stays. They didn’t. An overwhelming majority of the fanbase hates him and wants him gone – ironically while driving him out of town, they’ll also hate him for not waiving his NTC for Rantanen because he wanted to stay.
But Marner just does the same things every year – gets pushed to the perimeter and isn’t strong enough nor fast enough to push the defenders back when he’s entering the zone. The book on Marner is – close on him quickly and he’ll give away the puck.
He is nowhere near as talented, but Domi was more effective against Florida than Marner was. 9 years of all of these guys not showing up when it counts – and maybe you give them a pass for their first couple of years – but 7 years with Tavares – and none of them have stepped up when it mattered, and what’s worse is that they have actually played worse when it mattered.
How long do you get? How often can we keep trying with the same guys who don’t step up and get it done before we start to say we need other guys? It starts with Marner because he’s easy. You get nothing for him but you’re not overpaying him and he has to go – you heard the fans booing specifically him in game 7. In my opinion, there’s no coming back there.
I know Marner is fantastic and versatile and an excellent player. I also know that we have too much “Mitch Marner” on this team already and not enough Bennett and Marchand and Benn (I don’t want THIS Benn, I want prime Benn – but he comes to mind as what you need) and Perry. They need more asshole and a lot less pretty.
Never winning a thing because you sunk all your money into 3-4 guys who all play the same way and don’t have the balls to stand up when it counts is another sure way to lose your players. If the Leafs had insulated Marner with size and given him his own line to drive instead of putting him with Matthews, maybe the fanbase doesn’t scapegoat him and maybe he stays. They didn’t. An overwhelming majority of the fanbase hates him and wants him gone – ironically while driving him out of town, they’ll also hate him for not waiving his NTC for Rantanen because he wanted to stay.
They sunk their “depth” money into Tavares. Now it’s being eaten up by Kampf, Jarnkrok, Rielly and Tavares. Why continue to make the exact same mistake again? They had the “balls” to make Tavares the 2nd highest paid player in the league. 7 years came and went. No Cup. Why go back to that well ever again? They made him captain. They stripped him of the captaincy. He failed miserably against Florida. Why does he get to come back?
Fuck those fans. They don’t know a damn thing. And they should not influence management one bit because those are the same morons screaming to bring back Tavares at a “discount” so he can offensively disappear and defensively implode again and again and again in his Leafs pajamas.
You know who does want him back? Matthews and Berube. And that’s who should matter. If those bitch fans want to cry about Marner, tell them to stop watching. Bet you they won’t. Also bet you that if they do, there’s millions of people who will replace them in an instant. Nobody is canceling a season ticket because Marner gets an 8 year extension. Those tickets are already bought and paid for.
But Marner just does the same things every year – gets pushed to the perimeter and isn’t strong enough nor fast enough to push the defenders back when he’s entering the zone. The book on Marner is – close on him quickly and he’ll give away the puck.
You could say that about a lot of players, including the majority of players some people are suggesting can “replace” Marner from the UFA list. Most of which have far worse playoff stats than Marner. Is he still the 100 point force in the playoffs? No. But he scored against Ottawa, especially on the PP to win that round. And against Florida he did his part to win games even though he wasn’t filling up the stat sheet every game. One GWG and one primary GWG assist is significantly more than anybody else on the team not named Knies and Matthews who also had one GWG each.
If the goal is to beat Florida, why the fuck would anybody ever consider getting rid of any one of the three players who clearly helped win a game each? The top line of Knies, Matthews and Marner were NOT the problem against Florida. They didn’t blow the doors off them offensively but they kept their 1st line even.
He is nowhere near as talented, but Domi was more effective against Florida than Marner was. 9 years of all of these guys not showing up when it counts – and maybe you give them a pass for their first couple of years – but 7 years with Tavares – and none of them have stepped up when it mattered, and what’s worse is that they have actually played worse when it mattered.
The Red Wings almost traded Yzerman in 92 and again in 95. Drafted in 83, didn’t win a Cup until 97. It took Ovechkin 12 years to get past the Penguins and the 2nd round. The road to the Cup is not always immediate. The Leafs would be fools to give up on their best players for nothing because, unfortunately, it’s still the best option they got.
You should know this better than anybody that Domi wasn’t playing against the Barkov line. You also know that Domi is a maniac who takes idiotic penalties. He’s fine on your 3rd line but he’d get buried playing the harder minutes Marner had to play. Marner did step up against Florida, as I said earlier, he played a part in winning 2 out of the 3 games they did win. You subtract that, you don’t even get a sniff of Game 7.
How long do you get? How often can we keep trying with the same guys who don’t step up and get it done before we start to say we need other guys? It starts with Marner because he’s easy. You get nothing for him but you’re not overpaying him and he has to go – you heard the fans booing specifically him in game 7. In my opinion, there’s no coming back there.
How long do you tolerate Nylander after he disappeared in Game 5, 6 and 7? Oh, he doesn’t get a pass because that’s more difficult to trade him? Matthews had ZERO 2nd round playoff goals (still only has 1) and finished multiple years of playoff runs with 1 goal and terrible output. How long before they throw his jersey on the ice next? The mob can’t run this team because the mob is usually wrong, they’re just too stupid to know it.
I know Marner is fantastic and versatile and an excellent player. I also know that we have too much “Mitch Marner” on this team already and not enough Bennett and Marchand and Benn (I don’t want THIS Benn, I want prime Benn – but he comes to mind as what you need) and Perry. They need more asshole and a lot less pretty.
The problem is not our best players. The problem is the players we keep bringing back who are holding the team back. That would be Tavares, Rielly, Jarnkrok and Kampf. There is more than enough salary (17.5 million if you remove those guys) to sign the correct depth pieces if you simply remove the players that actually deserve to be removed from the team. You will not get Bennett and Marchand unless you grossly overpay for them. You do absolutely nothing positive by giving Bennett 9 million dollars a year on the back half of his career to score a career high 51 points and bringing back the pylons that are Rielly and Tavares who negate whatever good he brings.
When Marner walks for nothing, Bennett and Marchand resign with the Panthers, what will the Leafs do? They’re fucked.
As for Marner’s replacement numbers/impact:
Hard to say, but FLA for example, TBL, etc. are never using the standings as any kind of metric: it’s all about mile markers towards playoff preparedness, individually and as a team. They’ve fully embraced the “playoffs is like a different league” mentality and built a team around that.
Like I think if the Leafs got Bennett and Marchand, for example, this team would still be a 95+ point team, assuming Matthews is healthy.
Leafs should’ve shut down Matthews for the last 8-10 weeks, spent over the cap like all the good teams do when their star players are hurt, and worried less about home-ice advantage, which clearly didn’t do much in the grand scheme of things.
Let’s say we get Bennett and Marchard, DNA changing players built for playoffs, proven playoff performers; generally clutch guys.
Knies Matthews Domi: the line is a little less effective defensively, but you still have a Selke nominee center, plus Knies is a responsible 200′ player in the making, so it’s not like a huge drop-off there at 5v5.
It’s a little less crafty/shifty, but it’s also quite a bit more intense, physical, puck battle-winning line with Domi on it.
McMann Tavares Nylander: no changes obviously, although McMann has room to improve and I don’t think Tavares takes a really step back here.
Robertson Bennett Marchand: a massive upgrade over the 3rd lines we’ve had, and we’re now truly capable of scoring across all three (maybe 4) lines. Robertson will get a lot of time/space with that line, and he has a Mighty Midget in Marchand to look up to, not to mention Bennett. Maybe Robertson’s gone, but a scoring complementary winger here who can pot 15+ goals would be great and I think a full season of Robbie here could definitely work.
Lorentz Laughton Holmberg: a line that will get buried in DZ starts and will probably come out even, and maybe even pot a few here and there, but will be relied upon for majority of the PK duties. Definitely opportunity to tinker here for not a lot of cap space.
As for Marner’s replacement numbers/impact:
Hard to say, but FLA for example, TBL, etc. are never using the standings as any kind of metric: it’s all about mile markers towards playoff preparedness, individually and as a team. They’ve fully embraced the “playoffs is like a different league” mentality and built a team around that.
And yet, Florida aren’t rolling into the playoffs with 95 points and winning the Cup. Florida ran to the Finals as a Wild Card but lost. They won the Cup when they won the division last year. Vegas won the Cup in 2023, also won their division. So did Colorado in 2022. Tampa Bay sandbagged with LTIR in 2020 and 2021 so they could have also won the division as both seasons were shortened by COVID. As did Washington the year they finally beat Pittsburgh in 2018.
I’d still say the Leafs are way better off winning the division and getting the easier match-up than they are trying to underdog it as a wild card team.
Like I think if the Leafs got Bennett and Marchand, for example, this team would still be a 95+ point team, assuming Matthews is healthy.
95 points could mean you miss the playoffs. Bennett’s career high is 51 points. And Marchand is 37 and also had 51 points last year. How much gas you think these guys have left in the tank for the playoffs if he has to scratch and claw to make the playoffs? Especially Bennett who has had 3 deep playoff runs in a row.
Leafs should’ve shut down Matthews for the last 8-10 weeks, spent over the cap like all the good teams do when their star players are hurt, and worried less about home-ice advantage, which clearly didn’t do much in the grand scheme of things.
Agreed. After the 4 Nations, he should have been shut down. It would have allowed the Leafs to have even more deadline cap space and probably allows them to add better players than Carlo and Laughton who were both pretty big disappointments considering the price they paid and who the Panthers got. Seth Jones vs Carlo and Laughton vs Marchand. That’s a giant difference in deadline day upgrades that proved to be a big difference on the ice too.
Let’s say we get Bennett and Marchard, DNA changing players built for playoffs, proven playoff performers; generally clutch guys.
I think assuming the Leafs getting Bennett and Marchand is like assuming they’re getting McDavid in 2026 as a UFA. I think it’s a long shot dream scenario that probably doesn’t pan out in the Leafs favor. They’re going back to Florida, they’d be major league idiots not to.
Knies Matthews Domi: the line is a little less effective defensively, but you still have a Selke nominee center, plus Knies is a responsible 200′ player in the making, so it’s not like a huge drop-off there at 5v5. It’s a little less crafty/shifty, but it’s also quite a bit more intense, physical, puck battle-winning line with Domi on it.
Giant drop off for Matthews and Knies. I’d say combined, that line probably scores 20-30 less goals without Marner. Probably get scored on another 10-15 extra times too. Domi takes penalties and can’t play defense. So don’t expect Matthews to be some kind of defensive wizard when he has to take care of his area as well as Domi’s. That probably costs Matthews a bunch of goals too just having to play more time in his own zone because of Domi.
Domi was tried as a top-line player. He failed. He is, at best, a 3rd liner who can occasionally play on the 2nd line if his C and RW are rock solid. Which, on the Leafs, they are not.
McMann Tavares Nylander: no changes obviously, although McMann has room to improve and I don’t think Tavares takes a really step back here.
Horrible line to go back to exactly the same considering McMann scored 0 playoff goals, Tavares was shutout in 6 out of 7 games and Nylander disappeared after Game 3. Sorry, but if this is your 2nd line, you are losing in the 1st round 75% of the time and going beyond the 2nd round 0% of the time.
Nylander is horrid defensively and so is Tavares. You can afford to keep Nylander. But Tavares can’t even score his way out of his horrible defense anymore. This line is why the Leafs lose in the playoffs. That’s what nobody seems to understand or learn.
Robertson Bennett Marchand: a massive upgrade over the 3rd lines we’ve had, and we’re now truly capable of scoring across all three (maybe 4) lines. Robertson will get a lot of time/space with that line, and he has a Mighty Midget in Marchand to look up to, not to mention Bennett. Maybe Robertson’s gone, but a scoring complementary winger here who can pot 15+ goals would be great and I think a full season of Robbie here could definitely work.
Robertson is dog shit. There’s no way the Leafs land these two guys and then saddle them with Robertson AND slap them on the 3rd line. Bennett and Marchand cost the Leafs, at least, 9 and 8 AAV each. There’s no way you can afford to pay that much to put them on the 3rd line and expect to win games.
Lorentz Laughton Holmberg: a line that will get buried in DZ starts and will probably come out even, and maybe even pot a few here and there, but will be relied upon for majority of the PK duties. Definitely opportunity to tinker here for not a lot of cap space.
Lorentz and Laughton can get another chance (as rotational players) but Holmberg is another dog shitter. If this is the Leafs 4th line, expect 0 goals and more playoff failure.
Lorentz and Laughton can get another chance (as rotational players) but Holmberg is another dog shitter. If this is the Leafs 4th line, expect 0 goals and more playoff failure.
I agree with this sentiment. Holmberg is a punching bag and not a playoff performer. I didn’t mind Lorentz and Laughton. They did their job. The big boys didn’t. Robertson is a player that some teams might see as a possible player that they can reclaim. Use him for either a pick, or as a bargaining chip in a bigger trade. Still think that Boeser is an option, if Marner walks. A different type of player, but has been a decent point producer in the past.
I agree with this sentiment. Holmberg is a punching bag and not a playoff performer. I didn’t mind Lorentz and Laughton. They did their job. The big boys didn’t. Robertson is a player that some teams might see as a possible player that they can reclaim. Use him for either a pick, or as a bargaining chip in a bigger trade. Still think that Boeser is an option, if Marner walks. A different type of player, but has been a decent point producer in the past.
50 point, -25 player. Give it up. Boeser blows.
He’s also not from Toronto or Canada. After living in Vanpoover, he’s never playing in Canada again unless he’s grossly overpaid. He’ll end up in Minnesota.
I agree with the Gravy 🚂
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares NylanderInvest in 3rd line
Or trade Domi and Kampf to NYR for Kreider Trade 44 for Coleman
I agree with the Gravy 🚂
Knies Matthews Domi
McMann Tavares NylanderInvest in 3rd line
Or trade Domi and Kampf to NYR for Kreider Trade 44 for Coleman
Lol, not winning shit with that top-six, sorry. 2nd line is horrible defensively.
Don’t see the Rangers accepting that, he also has a NTC. No chance Calgary or Rielly accept that trade either.
Rielly is going to very, very few places. Either a contender stupid enough to take him, Vancouver, Seattle and maybe Utah because it’s closer to the West coast. But probably not Utah because he loves his rainbow flags, so, again, back to Vancouver and Seattle as the top two locations.
I agree, invest in the 3rd line but that means bringing in a strong, 3C and that means Jenner and/or McBain and UFAs for wingers.
Kampf + 2025 2nd rnd (FLA) + the right to Marner or 3rd rnd pck in 2026 for Karlsson
Knies Matthews Domi
Tavares Karlsson Nylander
McMann ?? ??Cowan?
Lorentz Laughton Tanev 😉Rielly to Chicago, so he can play with Brodie again ha ha lol 🙂
maybe they get back their 2026 2nd rnd pck back. again ha ha lol ;]Kampf + 2025 2nd rnd (FLA) + the right to Marner or 3rd rnd pck in 2026 for Karlsson
Knies Matthews Domi
Tavares Karlsson Nylander
McMann ?? ??Cowan?
Lorentz Laughton TanevLeafs get 9 goals, 29 points.
Marner gets to laugh as hard as Kadri did as he wins a Cup.
Great deal!
Wedgie you still here? Haven’t been reading much on here or hb lately.
Anyways the wife is running a 5k on the weekend. She runs at like 32 min pace but is just starting. She’s been working out everyday for 15+ years and only ever walked for cardio. All of a sudden she got the run fever and has been running every other day.
I ran a 5k last year for fun in under 25. We went for my second ever run since I was kid 2 weeks ago. She ran with me in under 30. She was dying and it was a brisk walk for me.
Next question is sub 20 impossible for a newbie and leave the wife in the dust to pursue higher goals in setting a new personal best. Or do I play the good husband and run along with her? She has also has friends from work there.
I’ll hang up and listen.
Also some time has passed and I’m learning to heal and move forward
Run it back.
Yzerman had to wait 14 years to win a Cup. Almost got traded twice, in 92 and 95.
Ovechkin, the greatest goal scorer to ever live, took 12 years. He has only made it past the 2nd round once and it was the time he won the Cup. Once in TWENTY SEASONS.
It took Nathan MacKinnon 8 years to win a Cup. Hasn’t gone past the 2nd round since.
McDavid hasn’t won a Cup yet either. And his team isn’t considered the favorite to win it this year either.
Winning a Cup is very, very difficult even when you have the best players to ever play the game.
The Leafs have made a lot of mistakes and they’re definitely taking the long road to win a Cup. But these guys (Matthews, Marner and Nylander) are still the best chance they got. And they were 1 game away from being where Florida is right now. Keep your best players, get rid of the guys who suck defensively and bring in the right role players.
The Leafs were 29th at 5v5 expected goals last year; that’s lottery team level right there.
They won the division because they had excellent goaltending and a much better defensive group.
Matthews doesn’t need Marner to exceed at this point in his career. I would say Marner needs Matthews far more than the other way around.
Marner plays slow, was incapable of getting in on the forecheck, so any winger capable of doing that is going to suit Berube’s systems.
With Marner gone, they can build out a balanced team, it’s really that simple.
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