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Read this today – hard to argue with this:
You cant argue that Marner wasn’t successful in the playoffs; he had 13 points in 13 games (2G, 11A) but it was his lack of production in Games 5 and 7 that really made fans furious.
Zero points, only three shots, a minus-4 rating. He had only four points the entire series, and did most of his heavy lifting against Ottawa.It’s actually extremely easy to argue it.
Nylander, Tavares and Matthews did fucking nothing in Game 5 and 7.
Guess what? Tavares is older, slower and a bigger defensive liability. On the ice for the most EVGA than any other forward.
Rielly, another “core” player that was a legit pylon for most of the series and has been a common factor in the Leafs inability to succeed in the playoffs.
It’s understandable that fans want changes, they’re simply too stupid to realize which changes will actually work.
Marner is gone – the crying and proclaiming they can’t let him go or they are doomed if he goes is just drama and untrue.
Wrong, it’s factual. Name me the team that drops it’s #1 point producer for nothing in return and does better. Kucherov, the Art Ross winner, has had 0 goals in 10 playoff games vs. the Panthers the past 2 years. Should Tampa Bay be dumping Kucherov so they can sign lesser players to replace him? Your thoughts lack logic.
Name the “Mitch Marner” type of player on any of the remaining teams for me? If you can name one go ahead and tell me what is different between them and Marner. I think we all know the differences and it’s why he is gone – the Leafs have too much rope and / soft as shit talent so he’s the odd man out being the UFA.
Thachuk had 0 goals in the entire series vs. the Leafs.
The whataboutism is irrelevant and deflecting.
You literally just used a “whataboutism” by trying to say there are no Marners left in the playoffs which is idiotic.
Yes the rest of the core was shit last 2/3 games (as usual), Marner and JT are the only guys who can be moved / let walk without them having to agree to it.
So Tavares is gone because at least Marner had a GWG and helped Matthews win Game 6. Again, typical Marner Derangement Syndrome. If he does something positive, it doesn’t count. If the team doesn’t win, everybody else sucks but Marner must suck more.
They can’t afford to keep Marner if he wants more than what Willy makes. That’s the facts, you don’t have to like them but you do have to accept them.
They can absolutely afford to keep Marner, they just have to dump the actually worthless players. If Marner is looking for that increase, you can literally get it from Kampf and Reaves who did not do a damn thing for this team except eat 3 AAV.
Marner is gone – as a start at least it’s a forgone conclusion. He knows it, he essentially said it on his willing at the end of the game having a pity party and in his post game presser.
If Marner is gone, the Leafs will have done what they always love to do; throw their home town boys under the bus and watch them win a Cup somewhere else. Then wonder why it’s been 58 years and counting…
Marner is walking. The Leafs no longer have any say in the matter.
The mistakes with the management of this core have been ongoing for nine years.
Marner walking July 1 is not the “mistake” – it’s the cherry on top of an ongoing decade long organizational failure.
Some people here cannot accept that Marner was offered (as per Dregger) 13.5 x 8 and turned it down,, It was after that Tre approached him about waiving his NMC. He clearly does not want to be hear for is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Good for him.. Do it someplace else.
Marner will be gone by his own choice and that is fine.. The reasoning that they cannot win without Marner is flawed. Where is Florida’s MM? Where is Carolina’s MM?
Seems people say that the Leaf’s can’t win without him but they have not won with him and other teams are winning without him.
Bring JT back if it is a short team friendly deal. Mathews and Nylander are going nowhere unless they want to.
As for Peterson.. He could not handle the pressure in Vancouver in the regular season.. Toronto would crush him.,
This team does not work, due to the imbalance of the payroll. You can’t have two right wingers making over $11M each, on long term deals. Matthews is also slightly overpaid, but a year ago, he scored 69 goals. Who’s been even close to this in over 25 years. Also being a centre, he’s worth more than a winger. Tavares is almost spent as an elite player. Yes, he had a good year, but it was a contract year. Is he really still a number 2 centre? His defensive game isn’t stellar. He does win faceoffs, but wouldn’t he be better slotted at 3C? The answer probably would be yes, but then who do we get for a #2? Many questions to be answered this summer. Leaf cannot go forward with both Marner and Nylander at this price point. Leafs are still a good hockey club, but adjustments need to be made.
Marner is walking. The Leafs no longer have any say in the matter.
The mistakes with the management of this core have been ongoing for nine years.
Marner walking July 1 is not the “mistake” – it’s the cherry on top of an ongoing decade long organizational failure. -Fifty
Best post I have read in a while.
fifty mission cap
Participant
Marner is walking. The Leafs no longer have any say in the matter.The mistakes with the management of this core have been ongoing for nine years.
Marner walking July 1 is not the “mistake” – it’s the cherry on top of an ongoing decade long organizational failure.
I honestly think Dubas really screwed this team with the contracts of MArner and Matthews along with his trying to reinvent the NHL. Huge failure. That and the core 3 never gelled as one team, they seem to always trying to be outdoing the other….never seem to fight for eachother.
Poor tre only a week when he started before Marner’s no move kicked in. No time to do a proper assessment, but that was the time to trade marner.
Azure
Participant
Some people here cannot accept that Marner was offered (as per Dregger) 13.5 x 8 and turned it down,, It was after that Tre approached him about waiving his NMC. He clearly does not want to be hear for is looking to be the highest paid player in the league. Good for him.. Do it someplace else.Marner will be gone by his own choice and that is fine.. The reasoning that they cannot win without Marner is flawed. Where is Florida’s MM? Where is Carolina’s MM?
Seems people say that the Leaf’s can’t win without him but they have not won with him and other teams are winning without him.
Bring JT back if it is a short team friendly deal. Mathews and Nylander are going nowhere unless they want to.
As for Peterson.. He could not handle the pressure in Vancouver in the regular season.. Toronto would crush him.,
This.
Also, remember when people were saying the canes are going nowhere due to the Rant debacle….well they seem to be doing fine.
Losing marner will be a big hit during the reg season for sure and for the first 4 games of any series….but the leafs havent won with this trio…in fact they havent even come close. They melt down in big games.
Marner isnt worth 13.5m…heck neither is matthews…but we’re stuck with matthews.
If marner takes $11.5…fine…but he wont. His dad is too greedy
If JT will take $5m…great sign him, if he wants more. Walk him.
Trade Morgan, his money can be better spent.Marner could re-sign with the Leafs. If they walk from him, I hope there is a clear direction and plan.
But they Leafs need to rebuild the bottom 6, the Panthers crushed them. Floridas top 3 scorers werent a huge factor. head to head against the LEafs top lines. But the bottom 6 couldnt keep up.
If that means spreading Marners money around thats fine also
Those who like Marner and want him to stay are probably in line for disappointment. My gut tells me that he will test free agency and there is a team(s) willing to back up the bank truck for him.
Like Fiddy said above – letting Marner walk is not the mistake, it is the culmination of a decade-long mistake.
I think Tree should do everything in his power to squeeze some assets from this situation. Sign and trade if possible. If not, learn from the mistake of losing an elite (but soft) player for nothing. Epic fail.
Paying Marner $14m – also an epic fail.
This is a no win situation for the Leafs. There is no Marner outcome that will make all sides happy at this point.
I blame ownership and management. The rot has spread upwards and needs to be excised. Shanny should be next.
After shooting Shanny into the Sun, this teams needs a complete retool. I’d keep maybe 5 current players on this roster. The rest can fuck right off.
Marner could re-sign with the Leafs. If they walk from him, I hope there is a clear direction and plan.
But they Leafs need to rebuild the bottom 6, the Panthers crushed them. Floridas top 3 scorers werent a huge factor. head to head against the LEafs top lines. But the bottom 6 couldnt keep up.
If that means spreading Marners money around thats fine also
~senstrolltwoI think you have to let Marner go to market. The price on him shouldn’t exceed $11.5m. Ultimately we keep hearing from all the agents that taxes don’t matter, so if Rantanen is going to make $12m, he’s the bar. He’s crossed 100pts twice and has had more than 40 goals once and more than 50 goals once and has crossed 30 goals on 4 other occasions. Marner has crossed 100 points once and has crossed 30 goals twice; he prorates to over 100 points 5 times. He’s an excellent player but the Leafs will never insulate him to his best effect. Matthews is big, but he doesn’t play a hard enough game – if anything he’s like having two Marners on the ice at the same time. Knies is one part, but if you really wanted to see a guy like Marner excel, you do need some size around him. People love to shit on me for comparing Marner to Kane, but there are a lot of similarities there. Kane, through his prime years, had 123 points in 127 playoff games. Marner has 63 in 70. But Chicago, at their peak, surrounded Kane with size – guys who were over 6’3 and 210lbs and they used their size to effect. The irony is that for the Leafs to get the guys necessary to elevate Marner, they need to let Marner go.
The other thing that going to market likely does for Marner is that it realistically sets his price. If a cusping or growing team like San Jose or Utah or a good team like Carolina feel that Marner puts them over the top, see what they offer. If the market is that good for him, let him be their problem. I doubt he’d come back once the market set a price for him, but who knows? I still doubt he could command more than Rantanen.
WRT to the bottom-6 – I thought Laughton and Lorentz were generally good – I thought both Jarnkrok and Kampf (in his limited audition) were just plain bad. Most importantly, and probably to your point, I thought the Domi line lacked identity and purpose. Domi isn’t a checking line guy. It’s just not his skillset. I thought Holmberg showed all sorts of effort and a complete lack of execution. McMann had a terrible playoffs and most of the time Domi seemed stuffed between those two.
I do think Robertson has run his course and if they can offload Jarnkrok and Kampf it sure would make sense.
I think you have to let Marner go to market. The price on him shouldn’t exceed $11.5m. Ultimately we keep hearing from all the agents that taxes don’t matter, so if Rantanen is going to make $12m, he’s the bar. He’s crossed 100pts twice and has had more than 40 goals once and more than 50 goals once and has crossed 30 goals on 4 other occasions. Marner has crossed 100 points once and has crossed 30 goals twice; he prorates to over 100 points 5 times. He’s an excellent player but the Leafs will never insulate him to his best effect. Matthews is big, but he doesn’t play a hard enough game – if anything he’s like having two Marners on the ice at the same time. Knies is one part, but if you really wanted to see a guy like Marner excel, you do need some size around him. People love to shit on me for comparing Marner to Kane, but there are a lot of similarities there. Kane, through his prime years, had 123 points in 127 playoff games. Marner has 63 in 70. But Chicago, at their peak, surrounded Kane with size – guys who were over 6’3 and 210lbs and they used their size to effect. The irony is that for the Leafs to get the guys necessary to elevate Marner, they need to let Marner go.
The other thing that going to market likely does for Marner is that it realistically sets his price. If a cusping or growing team like San Jose or Utah or a good team like Carolina feel that Marner puts them over the top, see what they offer. If the market is that good for him, let him be their problem. I doubt he’d come back once the market set a price for him, but who knows? I still doubt he could command more than Rantanen.
WRT to the bottom-6 – I thought Laughton and Lorentz were generally good – I thought both Jarnkrok and Kampf (in his limited audition) were just plain bad. Most importantly, and probably to your point, I thought the Domi line lacked identity and purpose. Domi isn’t a checking line guy. It’s just not his skillset. I thought Holmberg showed all sorts of effort and a complete lack of execution. McMann had a terrible playoffs and most of the time Domi seemed stuffed between those two.
I do think Robertson has run his course and if they can offload Jarnkrok and Kampf it sure would make sense.
Marner will get more than 11.5, and he should at this point. the cap is 88, if it hits 100, then 11.5 is the same as 13.06
Fans are going to adjust to higher cap and contract expectations… but fans are generally slow to move the needle on stuff like thatwith the acquisition of Laughton has made Kampf expendable imo.
I’d like to see Lorentz back as well.Jarnkrok was hurt for most of the season and if the Leafs can move his contract without taken on back would be ok.
I’d see if Pacioretty is willing to com back at 950K
but-out Reaves – ~ 450K for two years or do you let him sit in the minors for the year.not to many C in UFA, I’d bring back JT on a 2 year deal @ a 5M cap hit. If he want a 3 year, Leafs get a lower cap hit ~4.5M
wait and see what the Leafs do now.
Marner will get more than 11.5, and he should at this point. the cap is 88, if it hits 100, then 11.5 is the same as 13.06
Fans are going to adjust to higher cap and contract expectations… but fans are generally slow to move the needle on stuff like that
~senstrolltwoSomeone will probably do it – but if Rantanen is worth $12m, why is Marner worth more than $13m? It feels like . . .because Marner was already overpaid at $10.9m, opinion-wise his base increase starts from there instead of his salary being based on what he’s providing.
Since 2021 in the playoffs, Rantanen is 3rd in points/game (1.33). Marner, for the record, doesn’t suck like everyone thinks he does – he’s 21st @ 1.
Since 2021 in the season, Marner is 8th in points/game (1.27). Rantanen is 11th @ 1.22.Now this isn’t fairly equivocal to only look at Rantanen but he is the most recent and there could have been a 1:1 trade for the two players, both in expiring deals, so the equivalence has been set for comparative purposes. People will bring up taxes but as much as perhaps you and I think it matters, all these agents keep publicly saying it doesn’t, so . . .
dmnted
Participant
with the acquisition of Laughton has made Kampf expendable imo.
I’d like to see Lorentz back as well.Jarnkrok was hurt for most of the season and if the Leafs can move his contract without taken on back would be ok.
I’d see if Pacioretty is willing to com back at 950K
but-out Reaves – ~ 450K for two years or do you let him sit in the minors for the year.not to many C in UFA, I’d bring back JT on a 2 year deal @ a 5M cap hit. If he want a 3 year, Leafs get a lower cap hit ~4.5M
wait and see what the Leafs do now.
Jarny is a decent contract and when healthy can play up and down the line up.
I agree with JT, but lets be honest, he could easily get more on the open marker…something closer to Stamkos.
Speaking of Stamkos, find out if Marner would sign there. If so, do a sign and trade. MAnrer with 8 year deal plus Morgan for Marchessault, buntin (salary dump) and Lauzon.
Not great for Toronto, but they get Marchessault, an ok 2nd/line 3rd player, a youngish big Dman and cap space. Bunting could be traded for a pick.
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