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The only reason you’re mentioning Barkov and Ekblad in the same breath as Crosby and McDavid is because they have Cups. Barkov is a Top 10 center in the league, not sure Ekblad is currently a Top 10 Dman but he’s close enough. FLA scored big with #1 and #2 overall picks more than a decade ago but it wasn’t until Zito came on that Florida became a legit contender and now 2-time champs. Barkov and Ekblad have good size, don’t get pushed around. Ekblad is a mean defender.
Which is exactly what the Flyers need to do. Thank you.
Zito putting it all together for the Panthers doesn’t diminish that the team was built around those 2 anchors and it took many years after they were drafted to get where they are. The Flyers haven’t even drafted those players. The clock hasn’t even started on an actual rebuild.
The Flyers are skipping step 1. They are drafting the people to support the corner stones, which they don’t have nor do they have a plan to acquire.
In the last four drafts, the Flyers have had five picks in the Top 13. With them, they got Drysdale (for all practical purposes), Michkov, Luchanko, Martone, Nesbitt. Players picked that high have about a 90% shot at becoming NHL regulars. Yes, the return on Gauthier is looking bad but I don’t see how anyone can complain about the picks now. Below those picks, they’ve grabbed Bonk, Zavgarin, Bump and a few others who could become regulars, not just guys who will get a few games in. They already have some good pieces in place, including one of those Top 13 draft picks.
Nobody said that they didn’t pick players who couldn’t turn out to be NHL regulars, all complementary players are NHL regulars. Michkov is already on his way to being a very good player, the rest we’ll see. Jett over Buium is probably not great. Bonk over Perrault is probably not great.
Where are the Barkov, Ekblad, Austin Matthews, Makar, Sidney Crosby, McDavid, etc players? The clock doesn’t start ticking on a rebuild until you have them because you want the team to peak during those cornerstone players primes. You build around them, not the other way around.
Will they be better than the current team eventually, yes. Will they be more than a bubble team with these players, not likely but I feel Flyers fans have made making the playoffs their version of the Stanley Cup because they have been beaten down so much.
You’re trying to put the cart before the horse, it’s not a finished product yet. They’re three drafts into a rebuilding process, it’s ridiculous to think they’re going to turn the franchise around in three drafts without having a top five pick in any of those drafts. I completely understand the frustration, I was born in the late 60’s and I’ve been following this team for a long time, quite frankly, it’s been one of the worst run franchises for the past 15 years. They’ve been unable to adapt to a cap era, they’ve always built teams primarily through deals, not drafting. You can’t make good deals if you haven’t drafted well and have some ammunition to get what you want. Even with drafting there’s no guarantees, look at the Leafs, they had some excellent players they drafted but they were way too top heavy and didn’t build a balanced “team”.
I refuse to crap all over what they’re trying to accomplish just because I’m upset with the past, it hasn’t been good, but moving forward, I’m more hopeful than I’ve been in a long time.
Briere : “I think we’re at a stage now where we’re going to shift a little bit from subtracting from the roster into trying to start to add and help the team”
If you aren’t going to have a top 5 pick, let alone multiple top 5 picks in the first couple years of a stated rebuild, then when do you expect the Flyers to get them? Especially after they announce they are moving onto the next phase, buying players.
Chicago drafted their (probable) #1 center and #1 dman, SJ drafted their (probable) #1 center and #1 dman, etc. Nobody is calling them finished products, these players and teams are years from being finished products. But they’ve started the clock. They have their building blocks, now they just need to build around them. Just because the Flyers refuse to make the hard decisions doesn’t mean it’s not something fans shouldn’t expect from a competent front office.
The Flyers haven’t had a top 5 pick because the front office doesn’t want one. Hell they were embarrassed to be as bad as they were last year because as Jonesy said “We’re saying one thing to everyone as far as our messaging that we’re rebuilding, but we made sure to tell everyone on the team that’s BS.” Just the year before they almost made the playoffs (despite not beating a division opponent for 3 consecutive months in an historically easy year to win the 8th spot). That’s why they panicked and bribed Fedotov to come over.
The Flyers are skipping step 1. They are drafting the people to support the corner stones, which they don’t have nor do they have a plan to acquire.
Why does it always come down to a “guarantee” when there is no defense for the flyers roster building? If you can’t “guarantee” a cup, the Flyers shouldn’t draft an Austin Matthews or Connor McDavid or Cale Makar or Sidney Crosby or Barkov or Ekblad, etc. Who needs them, amirite?
Winning the Stanley cup takes more than just talent but make no mistake, it does take talent. The kind of talent you can’t buy in FA.
Personally, I really like where this is headed with the Briere era as GM. He’s only been at it two years, three drafts, plus Torts is now gone, they’ve acquired some nice young players from the draft. This isn’t going to be a quick fix, especially without a few top five picks, but I’m hopeful a few more good drafts they hit on some of these picks and we have some building blocks that start to stack up.
If your goal is to be a bubble team, then yes, that could happen. The foundation of a legit cup contender are the corner stones (esp. on those rookie contracts), which they do not have nor are they doing what is necessary to get them. The players they are getting are not building blocks, they are complementary pieces.
The Flyers FO continuously try to slap a coat of paint on the Flyers without actually fixing the foundation. This is not a slam on the players themselves but until the cornerstones are in place they will all be asked to play above their abilities and that is not a recipe for success.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA…….Tippett, our 40 goal scorer that never scored 30, needed an empty net to hit 20 this year……he was outproduced by Cutter
Cutter in 1 year has scored almost double what Drysdale has in the last 2 years combined for the Flyers despite Drysdale being a 6 year vet. Torts signed off on that trade and loved him until he had to coach him. The Flyers continue to make dumb decisions.
If and when the Flyers ever get to the current level Florida, Edmonton, and Vegas has attained, I’ll gladly listen to how they built a top-tier defensive corps via free agency. I’m guessing I won’t be hearing of this astounding success for a decade or more, or ever if they keep employing the incompetent because it’s the Flyers way.
And if Zegras and Drysdale show any inkling of improvement, not only will they get a bag of money, they’ll get a maximum term contract as well… it’s how the Flyers operate (just ask Owen Tippett).
Free agency? Some yeah, some draft and some trades. Every way you can acquire a defenseman. That’s how the good teams do it, usually with size and grit. None of FLA’s regular dmen are listed at under 200 lbs. Buium is 185. The Flyers do need to add there but we’ll see what the current corps can do soon enough.
Haha! The old “if that happens, then this will happen” argument. Tippett is the safest bet to have a full and productive season, then Zegras. Drysdale will be a project. It a turnaround doesn’t happen, a project with dwindling ice time.
Your size/weight obsession is getting a little disturbing. While not a FLA panther, Stanley Cup winner and #1 dman Cale Makar is 187 lbs. Size is a plus but skill and determination are the main things and FLA is so much more than just a “big” team as i posted above.
This focus on size, to exclusion of everything else, on the Panthers is ridiculous. If that was the case the Buffalo Sabres would be perennial contenders.
#1 center – Barkov – Drafted 2nd overall FLA
#1 Dman – Ekblad – 1st overall FLA
#1 goalie – Bob – 2 time vezina winner (before signing with the Panthers).They also traded a guy who was the 3rd overall pick FLA (huberdeaux) for a guy who was the 6th overall pick CGY (Tkatchuk).
The Flyers have none of these, nor are they trying to draft them. They aren’t even in position to do anything the sainted FLA panthers have done. Congrats to the Panthers but this team was built on drafting in the top 3 FOR YEARS, over a decade ago. You also have to have assets to trade. Anyone worth anything on the Flyers have NTC.
Could they luck into a Vezina caliber goalie wanting to play for them? Hahahahaha. The last time the Flyers thought they had that they had to massively overpay Bryz and dropped Bob like a hot potato. The flyers are just great at identifying goaltending talent. Fedotov says hello but hey .. he’s 6’7″ that means he’s a lock to win a Stanley Cup soon?
The expansion draft that built the core of Vegas was a unicorn and will never happen again and certainly not a model the Flyers can follow. Google the articles about it. Half the league should’ve fired their GMs that year as they got blackmailed into paying off Vegas.
Recounting Awful Golden Knights Expansion Draft Trades, Penguins Included
No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.
Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.
Whether you agree with it or not, i provided my definition and you ignored it. Look at the Buffalo Sabres, they have 6’6″ players on offense and defense. Are they a team anyone is afraid of? Should they book the parade route?
I’m not saying that size isn’t helpful but it’s not the main thing. The last 5 norris trophy winners are 5’10”, 5’10”, 5’11, and 6′(x2). Buium is 6′. One of those is Makar who anchored the Avalanche to the Stanley Cup. Nothing else matters until they get their corner stone players. Aspiring to be the Buffalo Sabres is a low bar.
Very well said, and I tend to look at the bright side of things but it’s tough with this franchise and what we’ve been given the last dozen seasons.
Still no 1C, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1D, nor is there one in the system.
Still no 1G, nor is there one in the system.Is it scouting, drafting, or player development? or all of the above? I am in the minority about Buium however, and not because I thought Jett was the better pick/prospect. I think the history with his agent would’ve possibly had the same outcome as CG.
All of the above.
The Phantoms were basically ignored by the Flyers during Torts run, there was no coordination between them and the NHL club. Torts told everyone that he told LaPerriere to do whatever he wanted because the Phantoms were his team and not to worry about what the Flyers were doing. It goes back longer than that but recent history is no surprise as Torts just thought hockey boiled down to yelling at people and blocking pucks and didn’t concern himself with much else.
Scouting and drafting go together. What you ask your scouts to look for determines what information they bring you and how you make your draft decisions. Would better scouts uncover better players? Probably but the Flyers have historically favored “Flyers players” which aren’t Stanley Cup players in the modern era. So it’s a bit of both. The scouts have been here through multiple regime changes though, it’s time for fresh eyes.
This is not directed at you as you haven’t said why you prefer Jett but Buium is 6’0, not exactly a smurf, i guess he needs to be 6’6″ to be considered a legitimate prospect by some fans? He has won just about every award there is to win before coming to the NHL, both team and individual. This is yet another example of why the Flyers continue to fail. If Buium becomes what he’s projected to and Jett becomes what he’s projected to, the Flyers will still declare themselves winners because they value “born to be a flyer” players over the players that can win Stanley Cups.
DB has had 3 drafts and has shown no urgency in trying to acquire the cornerstone players you listed above and are exiting the “rebuild”. How do you exit a rebuild you haven’t started? Based on what i’ve read their preference is to throw big money at UFA next year after their cap finally clears up, you know, like Fletcher did. Will there be anyone available who is worth throwing that money at? Probably not, but historically that has not stopped the flyers from doing it.
There is nobody who thinks the Flyers, a bottom feeder, are hard to play against.
Exactly, which is why I’m happy to see the Flyers address that issue, getting bigger and tougher, and others as well. You’re arguing in a circle. The guys you said they should have drafted don’t address that issue better than the players they did draft.
No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.
So your main gripe is the Flyers could have drafted better, not that they didn’t get players. Luchanko and Bonk appear to be future solid players even if they weren’t the best players available. Buium and Perrault are smallish. I’ll take my chances with Bonk and Luchanko and building a harder to play against team. Most of your complaints seem to be hypothetical, about a future that hasn’t happened. None of them, some of them, most of them or all of them could pan out. I have my own too. We seem to agree on the Drysdale problem. There’s so much negativity here, it tends to distract me from my own gripes and concerns.
The team just spent multiple years trying to acquire those players. ND was one of those players. Tortorella just spent 3 years saying the same thing before he publicly told the team to f off and pay him not to coach. Where did that get the Flyers except some more fans in the seats who bought the cliche? It got a bunch of players who were burnt out by trying to go full speed for 60 minutes a game. The teams that are truly “harder to play against” are teams with good puck possession who play a system that fits their strengths. Teams with talent at the cornerstone positions where the team isn’t trying to hammer square pegs in round holes.
There is nobody who thinks the Flyers, a bottom feeder, are hard to play against. But hey, they do love to block shots for what it’s worth. Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.
It’s not like I think Briere has been mistake free. Gauthier, seems like they overpaid and overcommitted to Tippett, the late season nonsense with Torts. At least you’re naming them and I added one myself. You can’t redo Gauthier, overpaying a guy who has proven he can play isn’t the worst thing in the world and Torts and Thompson are gone . . . replaced with what looks to me like upgrades. Where are the downgrades?
The question was fundamentals and mistakes. If Tippett doesn’t bounce back this year that contract is an anchor and that is a very bad thing. Does anyone think he is anything other than a one dimensional player? Risto is still a flyer. They badly whiffed on evaluating Drysdale (and admitted it eventually) and time will tell but they probably set the team back several years in not drafting Buium who was and is currently predicted to be a #1 dman. One of the cornerstones the Flyers never seem to find but often lament. Also Bonk over Perrault, etc. Maybe the Flyers will ultimately prove to be the smartest guys in the room and not just some guy who took a night course but i have a bridge to sell you if you think that.
Downgrades? No place to go but up with the coaching staff and organizational philosophy but do you trust the color commentator and DB to know which direction is up? Tocchet is in theory a big upgrade but his winning % is something like .488 when he doesn’t have that alpha goalie (hint : the Flyers do not have that alpha goalie) and once again, they decided to take on the bad optics of hiring yet another exflyer. At least the AHL coach is an actual coach and not just an out of work exflyer enforcer.
They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.
Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.
24th on goals, 28th GAA, 29th differential, PP 30th, PK% 20th, s/gp 28th, sv% 32nd. They lost 500 SOG last year from the previous year.
The Flyers were not a good puck possession team last year. Their metrics show they deserve to be a bottom feeder team. The best thing you can say about them is that their historically bad PP (and they are in the record books for being the worst in the league for 3 years straight) is no longer the worst, just god awful. The fundamentals you speak of, don’t exist. It’s the dreaded “eye test” i guess.
A real GM would’ve fired Rocky. There was literally nobody worse in the league and he was untouchable. Hell Torts was only let go after Torts crossed the line with York and then told the world that he had no interest in coaching another game for the team. Even then DB lamented how much he wanted Torts back.
Briere made many many mistakes from the Gauthier debacle (regardless of how people feel about CB, the Flyers were bush league in how they demonized the kid). To the Flyers not realizing the difference between man-to-man defense vs zone when they evaluated/traded for Drysdale. To allowing Torts to dictate that the Phantoms can do whatever the hell they want system wise because he dgaf. Bribing Fedotov to come over with a large NHL contract, Kolosov handling, goalie handling in general.
The mistakes are legion and that’s just a few. Last season was a poopshow from start to finish but DB didn’t do much until Torts forced his hand publicly. How many other teams in the NHL intentionally start the season shorthanded on defense? Others have mentioned more. We’d be here all day if we listed everything.
