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Not sure why you keep pushing this fucking moronic narrative, but just to show how dumb it is.
Kapanen has more goals than Hyman and Marner have combined points all of this playoffs.
It’s fact. It’s damn fact.
It’s always cute when fucking morons try to use the word narrative in an attempt to make themselves look smarter than a box of rocks.
It’s not an entire narrative, just a simple fact that the Leafs wouldn’t be a shit bag team had they not got rid of the majority of the players they gave up on.
the oilers problem is so basic that even i can figure it out. it might not be 100% on the goalies, but it’s been a glaring issue for many years running now.
leafs issue is a little more infuriating and complex. ownership, low standards, corporate mindset, soft players, systems, defense, etc.
i know a guy like hagel is technically too old to bring in on a rebuild, but you also need a mentor who plays the game the right way by example and shows the young rookies how to act. i wish we had him. i’d have the video crew put together a 2-hour long movie of hagel clips and make the youngsters watch it until they memorize it. i swear he’s darcy tucker reborn with better hands. talent, snot, piss, vinegar, and finishing ability. fuck tampax. how the fuck do they keep landing these guys?
speaking of which, did anyone else see that hit on slafkovsky last night? i swear if you watch it in slow motion, you can see his soul leave the body.
i swear i am going to quit watching oiler games. it’s a fucking war crime to watch mcdavid get pissed away like this. him and drai should GTFO of town.
oilers losing out to the fucking ducks is gonna blow my bracket to kingdom come.
The Leafs had their chance with Hagel when he was with Chicago. It would have cost Knies. Shanahan said no. It seems stupid but Knies could end up providing more as he matures.
Tampa Bay is clinging to contender status and with the way Hagel is replacing Point (who sucks now) in terms of big game status, there is no way the Lightning are letting him go especially at that discount cap hit.
The Leafs should only be interested in guys 23 and younger. Everyone else must go.
Travesty of officiating to end the Edmonton game. Referees didn’t see or signal a goal but call a goal. Then review can’t overturn it. It was probably a goal but just the way they handled that was terribly bush league.
Hard to count out McDavid but they’re down 3-1. If Edmonton crashes out, they need to fix the goaltending. They didn’t lose because of the goaltending tonight but they didn’t win because of it either. They gave up way too many goals in the first three games and were forced to throw in Jarry cold tonight. He did alright but this Oiler team needs above average goaltending to compensate for the leaky D. They might go after Bob but he’s old and he had a horrible season. Very tough situation to fix quickly unless they have an unknown rookie in their system who can come out of nowhere on the cheap.
Huge comeback win for Tampa Bay, back breaker loss for Montreal on home ice. Seemed like the referees were giving Montreal every chance to run away with it but Tampa Bay “stormed” back and tied the series. With every game being so close, the series might go the distance.
I actually like Habs chances to win the East and go to Cup final.
I think they will beat Carolina if they can get past Tampa.Disagree.
Montreal will have to get past Buffalo first. That will be a war. Meanwhile, Carolina has to play most likely the Flyers which are the lowest seed in the East. Carolina already swept Ottawa, despite them coming into the playoffs red hot and would probably cool off the Flyers pretty quick which gives them added rest to the rest they are already going to have from the 1st round.
Also, Carolina plays a way higher pressure game than Tampa Bay and would put way more pressure on Dobes which is their biggest weakness.
ottawa is gone and probably the oilers are next unless mcdavid and drai can drag them through a round or two before the lack of goaltending and shoddy defense catches up to them.
it makes me want to vomit saying it, but habs probably have the best shot of any canadian team. if their goaltending holds up. i’m still sort of rooting for freddie in carolina and mitch in vegas. freddie is great until the inevitable injury comes and then carolina is cooked. i think colorado stops any hope of vegas coming out of the west though.seems weird to me that none of the teams with elite goalies are doing well (or even qualified). almost every vezina candidate is either playing golf or struggling like vasilevsky.
People have been saying that about the Oilers for 3 years and they went to the Final twice with Skinner in net. McDavid is otherworldly. He can carry them to right to the end, if he’s healthy. The crazy part is that Edmonton is scoring like crazy without him producing. Just imagine if he was scoring. They’d be winning games 8-7.
Montreal, if they get past Tampa Bay, would probably get blitzed by Carolina. Even without a goalie, Carolina could make it deep if they keep playing like they are playing. They have TWO back-ups and both could be just barely good enough to get them through.
Vegas has got no goaltending either, even with great shot suppression. Goalies are always weird but this year is a strange year for goalies in particular. There seems to be a lot of PPs this year which is going to change everything.
Robertson has been inconsistent over the years for the Stars in the playoffs, but he is having himself a series so far this year. Playing really well tonight.
Game 7 vs Calgary in 2022. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Minnesota in 2023. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Seattle in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 7 vs Seattle in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Vegas in 2023. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Vegas in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 7 vs Vegas in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Colorado in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Edmonton in 2024. 0 goals.
Game 6 vs Winnipeg in 2025. 0 goals.Good thing he doesn’t play in Toronto otherwise he’d be run out of town by now.
and the Sens have been sweeped!
Swept, never held a lead at any time in any of the games, Stutzle and Tkachuk both with 0 goals.
And Ullmark played great too. It’s not like they got shit goaltending.
Andersen also stood on his head, as usual, another Leafs player run out of town still showing his talents while the Leafs still haven’t found a goalie who can play a full season.
Absolutely wonderful.
you’ve convinced me, now the leafs would just need to convince another gm in that scenario. it will be interesting to see what happens next season. if i’m matthews, i’m low-key looking at my options and getting my affairs in order for a move to another team or country. getting assassinated by gudas and watching my teammates lollygag around like eunuchs and doing nothing. gudas could have whipped out his junk and pissed on matthews and nobody in a blue jersey would do anything about it. shit, i wanted to see somebody come off the bench and at least try if the pantywaists on the ice wouldn’t. fuck, i’d half expect berube to see red, flash back to his enforcer days, and go after gudas in the tunnel later or something.
if matthews stays and i was him, i get up in front of the whole team in the locker room and lay down the new law. maybe even get adversarial a little, get in some faces, poke some chests, call out some shit into the open and confront it. if he wouldn’t do that, then i’m not sure if i’d want him. and if he did and it didn’t make a difference starting with the next game, my next call would be to my agent and the GM.
I know exactly how you feel and I wish the Leafs were built differently too. They just have a team full of listless pussies with very, very few exceptions. You can have a few, high skill pussies but not the majority of the team and that’s a major issue the Leafs have had the past two decades.
The good part about rebuilding with new management, if you had a guy like Pronger as part of it, you wouldn’t see that shit ever again. You could draft accordingly to assemble a group of mean, tough, determined, motivated bastards so that when you do have a couple soft pussies who only score goals, they’re insulated and protected like Pasta in Boston for example.
Matthews is absolutely the opposite of that. He’s not going to demand that from his own team. You can tell he’s a marshmallow. He’s a bigger, better Kessel.
Wonderful. Ottawa and Toronto won the exact same number of playoff games and series this year.
Ottawa bitching about penalties when they went 1 for 9 on the PP. Shut the fuck up Ottawa.
Fuck Ottawa in it’s entirely. Worthless sack of shit city filled with corrupt libtards.
what would a realistic return on matthews look like? lets be brutally honest with ourselves. fans often overvalue their players in hypothetical trades.
going our way is the fact that the cap is rising. if matthews wanted out and waived his no trade, it’s not like he’s on a bargain contract. he would need a new deal or extension soon after and he would be looking to cash in one last time before he’s way past his prime earning years. ruling out something crazy like a one for one elites deal, we would be looking at a first round pick, a roster player or blue chip prospect, and possibly some throw ins like low picks or low-ceiling prospects. i think thats a fairly realistic expectation and i’m not sure we get that much necessarily. the leafs have a history of getting low-balled and settling for less. it sucks to even contemplate getting less than that for him, but here we are.
i’d take a first, a second, a third, and Hagel.
Your price doesn’t help the Leafs rebuild as Hagel is 27, too old to survive a rebuild. Tampa Bay probably wouldn’t want to give him up anyway. A 1st, 2nd and a young roster player is closer to Nylander’s value. Matthews, under the correct scenario, is significantly more valuable.
The first thing to consider is that you can’t trade Matthews at this very moment for two major reasons.
1) The Leafs don’t have their 1st round pick for next year so tanking right now only helps Boston / Philadelphia.
2) They stand to get more for Matthews if they rebuild Matthews’ value first.However, if they give up their pick to Boston in 2026 and the Flyers in 2027, it makes A LOT of sense to trade Matthews at the 2027 draft for maximum value. If the Leafs have to give the Bruins the 2027 pick and the Flyers the 2028 pick, it creates a disaster for the Leafs ability to rebuild for years.
So imagine a scenario where Matthews is healthy next year and scores 45-50 goals again, his value is back up and the Leafs will have their 1st round pick again for 2028.
A realistic return on Matthews would be very, very good. Here are the reasons why.
Any team that acquires Matthews would only have to pay him 450K in real dollars. Yes, that’s right, 450K for one of the best snipers of this generation. With Matthews’ salary being almost entirely upfront signing bonuses, whatever team acquires Matthews will pay him next to nothing in real dollars. Additionally, if the Leafs retain 50% of his cap hit (who cares, they would be rebuilding if they trade him anyway) then his cap hit will be an absurd 6.625 AAV. And then, if all of that wasn’t already good enough, whatever team acquires him has the time to negotiate an 8 year extension which he might finally accept as he exits his prime years. This allows any team that acquires him to “go for it” with Matthews making peanuts in real dollars and a 50% cap hit discount for 1 year as a rental and/or add him long term with time to make the space for him to fit.
Now imagine a scenario where Utah, Anaheim, LA or San Jose want Matthews to contend with the big boys in the West and the other big boys in the West find out about that. Do you think Colorado could move 6.625 AAV to acquire Matthews, even as a 1 year rental? Same goes for Dallas, Minnesota, Vegas and Edmonton. You could have 6-8 teams in the West throwing offers at you left, right and center, all trying to out bid the other contenders in the West. And then, you might have some insane offer from one or two teams in the East if a contender wants to make a huge splash like Carolina.
If you look at what Rantanen got (Stankoven (under 23 roster player), two 1sts and two 3rds), Matthews could easily get that as an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM and probably get way more through a bidding war and contract retention is 50%.
I think two 1st round picks, a bluechip top prospect and a young (under 23) roster player is fair value for Matthews with a 6.625 cap hit and exclusive rights to negotiate an 8 year extension. Basically, four 1st round picks which would be standard value for a high value player signing an offer sheet as an example.
I knew after Kap finally had a good playoff game that someone would post some stupidity about Toronto letting him go 6 YEARS AGO!!
Nevermind Pitts and St louisYa the Leafs have really missed his 14 to 30 pts every year since.
Kap had a good game, good for him.Yeah, much better to have a pile of shit like Maccelli at 4 times the price and miss the playoffs entirely.
You missed the broader point but you usually do so that’s no surprise.
i would have never dreamed of trading matthews until this season. and not because of him, but because he is wasted here. toronto is wasting matthews the way that edmonton is wasting mcdavid. an elite generational talent just pissed away on mediocre teams. what really killed me and pushed me into trade territory was the gudas hit. gudas should have been gang piled by everyone on the ice, including the goalie. fuck that. you don’t target the teams captain and star player and no retaliation? what the actual fuck? matthews must have felt like shit knowing he was targeted by a notorious goon and his teammates just blew it off like it meant nothing. because it did mean nothing to spineless shits like rielly, willy, and carlo. if i was matthews, my mind would have been made up right then. i’d want out. fuck those guys.
trade matthews and set him free. like phil, he’ll win a cup somewhere else. it pains me to say it. i can’t believe i’m saying it but here we are.
i’m on the fence about willy. trade him if the return is right, but i don’t think he brings much in return for trade value versus what he’s worth to the team. the only pure oneway floating sniper winger we have. i don’t expect him to be a center, take faceoffs, kill penalties, or be defensively responsible. his job is just to score goals, which he’s good at. if the return is subpar, we keep him and let him show the new kids how to dress for instagram clout. if he gets you a first rounder, trade him and let him be soft somewhere else.
the problem with full rebuild is we’ve been here before. we drafted matthews and marner and fucked that up royally. so, we do it again? trade everyone for picks, draft new talent and then fuck that up again in 10 years when the new window is supposed to be open and remains closed because we’ve learned nothing and just shuffled the chairs again. it also kills me to say it, but i don’t give a fuck who wins the cup this year. i guess i’ll take mcdavid also, but i’d like to see marner win it just to rub salt in the wound and make the lesson more painful.
As soon as they let Marner walked, the team was done for. Matthews is not the same player with Marner. And the sad part is, even when Matthews was scoring 60-69 goals, he wasn’t scoring them often enough when it mattered in the playoffs. It’s very stupid and annoying that the Leafs gathered elite talent and pissed it away but that all comes down to management. They had a team of executives that made too many bad moves and drafted like absolute shit. Scroll up and I made a list of all the players the Leafs let go and drafted during the Shanahan years and it’s sickening how bad this team was at management.
I think Matthews has opened the door to leaving because the benefits of living in Toronto have dwindled to near zero. It’s not a desirable enough place to live or play anymore. He can make more money, get taxes less, have nicer weather, more privacy and still play competitive hockey on any one of the teams in the West in the USA.
Trading Matthews is about so much more than the shit bag team that refused to stand up for him. It’s just the biggest source of value the Leafs have to get younger in the shortest amount of time. The Leafs don’t have 1st round picks but trading Matthews could bring you the value of three or four 1st round picks immediately. And the same goes for Nylander. He brings the Leafs value in a trade more than he does on the ice. And if you trade Matthews, Nylander is the next one to ask to be traded, followed by everybody else over 25 who wants a chance to win somewhere else.
Yes, the previous rebuild ultimately failed but the Leafs don’t have any other options. They will fail at a retool even worse. At least will a full tear down rebuild, you can hire the proper management, overpay them all with the savings from paying the players way less after you trade them away, and rebuild this team properly; through the draft.
