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Rielly for Lafrenière ???
they have roughly the same cap hit.
why — just because.
Don’t think either team or player benefits or accepts that trade.
Moving Rielly is mostly about getting his horrid defense off the team, clearing cap space and bringing in defensive depth.
You posted stats about 2 players with zero context other than “playoff points / goals” which was intentionally misleading since one guy has played 128 playoff games and the other 75 and when that fact is pointed out to you this is how you react?
There is absolutely nothing misleading or out of context about stating the fact that Stamkos has actually been a playoff performer and Tavares has not.
For the record I didn’t see ANYONE say JT was a better playoff performer (I sure as hell didn’t), I provided context to your post that was missing important information – had you posted it initially instead of trying to spin a narrative by intentionally omitting it we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
You certainly implied it by trying to spin the context by stating that Stamkos was playing on “stacked” teams while Tavares wasn’t.
The facts slapped you harder across the face than Edmonton got slapped in Game 3.
Here are some more facts that may hurt your feelings:
JT HAS in fact played 75 career playoff games https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89823
34 years only and he’s only played in 75 career playoff games? And you want that garbage to come back?
Tyler Johnson was the playoff goal and point leader in 2015, he also led in even strength goals, Game Winning goals and goals created in those playoffs.
Tampa had Ben Bishop in net who had the most shutouts in the playoffs, a .921 Save % and a 2.18 GAA.
Maybe it’s you who should do research before posting ‘stupid shit’ or post the entire set of data and not just cherry pick what helps support your opinion and purposely omit what doesn’t but should be considered.
Irrelevant. Having Tyler Johnson and Ben Bishop on the team is hardly having a “stacked” team the year he first brought his team to the Cup Final. That same “stacked” team, didn’t go as far without him the next year. Tyler Johnson never had a playoff run like that ever again. Bishop got replaced by Vasilevskiy.
Your dumbass point was refuted. Easily.
The only person screaming about JT is you, it’s quite probable that JT will be back, you may want to look to accept that fact while considering that facts don’t care about your feelings.
Thinking that not bringing a guy back for 3-5M is the major change that’s needed vs not paying a winger 13M or more and yet again putting the Leafs into a cap situation where they simply can’t build the balanced roster that the true, like the elite teams in this league have right now is incredibly short sighted.
Throwing away your leading point producer in his prime for nothing while bringing back an old, proven loser is the precise manner in which this franchise continues to fail miserably. Keep supporting the failure.
I’m done with this debate – sorry / not sorry to have spoiled your narrative with facts.
Good, you know when you’ve been defeated. Now stay silent like a good boy.
Stamkos has played 128 career playoff games many of them with stacked Tampa teams.
JT has played 75 with the Islanders and Leafs.
#facts
You should at least attempt to do research before you say stupid shit like that.
If Tavares only played 75 career playoff games, it’s probably because he played like shit so often, his teams didn’t advance as often or as far as they should have.
Stamkos, in 2015, led his team to the Final with the super megastar Tyler Johnson. Kucherov was a 65 point, 2nd year player, great in the playoffs, yes, but not yet considered who he is today at that time. Vasilevskiy was the back-up. Point wasn’t even drafted yet. Hedman had less points than Stralman. The next year, Stamkos only played 1 playoff game. His team did not return to the Final without him, despite every other major player still being on the team. They did not return to the Final for many years, despite missing the playoffs entirely one year and getting swept by Columbus after being the #1 team in the NHL. Did they blow up the team? Trade Kucherov? Point? Stamkos? Hedman? Vasilevskiy? Nope. Luckily they didn’t have idiot fans running their best players out of town.
Stamkos’ 50 career playoff goals is only 3 less than Kucherov, 6 more than Point and many more than other guy on the roster during that era. And he did that despite missing nearly two entire playoff runs due to injury.
Can Tavares say he did anything anywhere near that? Since 2018 up to 2025, despite being the 2nd highest paid player in the league for most of that time, Tavares (in his fucking prime) sat behind far younger, more inexperienced players like Marner, Matthews, Nylander and even Rielly in playoff scoring. And -15 too. If you wanted to make the argument that he was the best player on a team that lacked good players (like Sundin) you might have a leg to stand on. But you got nothing but excuses for a piece of shit player who did nothing to live up to the contract and praise he was given. People like you were screaming from the rooftops “look at what he did with garbage players in Long Island, just imagine what he’ll do in Toronto with Matthews, Marner and Nylander, we are spoiled with riches” and look how it all played out. Those same people are now screaming for his return. But they also scream “change, change, change”. You want fake change.
The more you look at the numbers, the more it seems like Matthews is closer to Stamkos than Tavares is because Tavares is absolute dog shit by comparison. Matthews is the 60 goal man, plagued by injuries in the playoffs who requires the team around him to be stacked because he can’t carry it all by himself. Which is fine because most players can’t. Not even McDavid seems to be able to win it all by himself.
Even if your argument was that Stamkos was a passenger (he wasn’t) on stacked teams for 16 years, behind Kucherov, Point, Hedman, Vasilevskiy etc., it holds zero water to expect the Leafs to have Stanley Cup success by bringing Tavares back along as a passenger at 34-40 when they have absolutely nobody who performs like the “stacked” Tampa Bay teams did, to carry him along. Much less, after also letting Marner (the #1 career playoff point producer on this team) walk for nothing and replacing him with spare parts at the bottom of the UFA barrel.
Facts. Will you accept them? Probably not.
Not exactly the same, but Steven Stamkos checks a lot of those boxes. Granted, Stamkos was only 30 when he got his first Cup and then 31 on the second Cup. Not great defensively, average skater, little playoff success prior to the Cups. He was making about $8m at the time.
So… kinda…. ish.
So, strike one, he wasn’t 34+, as you already said. Stamkos also had multiple deeper playoff runs (2011/2015/2018) in his younger days prior to winning, including one run to the Final that he lost. All in all, Stamkos has 50 career playoff goals and 100 playoff points to Tavares’ 28 playoff goals and 53 playoff points and they’re basically the same age. The way Tavares got shutout in 6 out of 7 games against the Panthers is something I don’t think Stamkos was capable of. But perhaps at 34+ Tampa Bay let him go away for good reason. And the Leafs should do the same.
If the Toronto media and fans want to blame the “core” for being bad playoff performers, perhaps it was their mentors, Marleau, Thornton, Spezza and Tavares that showed them how to be playoff losers.
I share the same sentiment. JT wants to remain and unless Treliving comes in insultingly low, a deal is going to get done.
Marner, I’m almost certain, is going to test the market and the only question left is whether the Leafs do a sign and trade or trade his rights to recoup some value.
Last year there was a lot of chatter about how everyone knew where certain free agents were going to sign prior to July 1 with the NHL saying that they were aware and were investigating (and I’m sure if it had been a Canadian team that as guilty, they’d have done something about it) – but with a high profile player like Marner, if teams start talking to him prior to July 1 or if it’s “a known done deal” before July 1, I’d suspect tampering could actually be brought up. It might be wise for an interested team to trade something to get that right to talk to him early. Carolina has Toronto’s 6th in 2026. That’s probably a fair trade to get a player’s negotiating rights.
Has any team in recent memory, let’s say, the past 10-15 years, with a player who fits the bill of Tavares been able to win a Cup?
I’d put Tavares in the category of: massive defensively liability, poor skating, 34-40 year old making 5-7 million getting top-six minutes and PP time with poor career playoff success. I’m going to guess; no.
If Tavares is on this team, even on a “discount”, the Leafs will still be fundamentally flawed and won’t be able to win a Cup with him on the roster. Much like how Duchene at 3 million seemed like a bargain for Dallas, Duchene was horrible at 5v5 and defensively for Dallas in the playoffs despite leading the team in scoring in the regular season. I see Tavares in the same light and I don’t think he gives the Leafs any real winning value unless he makes 1 million a year. At absolute most, 2 million AAV.
Tavares has made 112 million dollars in his career. Even with the government stealing 50% of that, Tavares is set for generations and can afford to play for 1-2 million a season if playing in Toronto is paramount to his existence. The Leafs, however, can’t afford to have Tavares at more than that.
It’s tricky – but you need assholes to succeed. Guys who get under the other team’s skin. Guys who want to life difficult for the opposition. Guys who will do what it takes to make it happen.
You see, there’s three kinds of players: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies score all the points, and dicks just want to fuck guys up all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, like Marchand. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, and if they didn’t fuck the assholes, you know what you’d get? You’d get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit!
The Leafs need more dicks. We need more reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the core 4 are pussies. Pussies don’t like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks can also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn’t appropriate –
and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves…because pussies are an inch and half away from assholes.I don’t know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If the Leafs don’t find some dicks to fuck these assholes, we’re going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!
Leafs have been dying for a player like Perry, PDO. -fifty
In an alternative universe, where the Leafs had consistent, competent management that knew how to keep their own draft picks, develop prospects and make shrewd trades, they could very easily have a team that looks like this…
Hyman @ 5.5 | Matthews @ 13.25 | Marner @ 10.9
Knies @ 925K | Verhaeghe @ 7 | Nylander @ 11.5
Brown @ 1 | Bennett @ 4.425 | Dakota Joshua @ 3.25
Kapanen @ 1| Domi @ 3.75 | Perry @ 1.1And the craziest part is, if you do the math of what those guys made this year, it would have been 63.675 AAV out of an 88 million dollar cap ceiling.
That would have left 24.3 AAV to still have Tanev, McCabe, OEL, Carlo, Benoit, Woll and Stolarz leaving the Leafs with 1.4 AAV in remaining cap space to sign one last bottom pair D.
Only Rielly wouldn’t have fit. Not a big loss, as we all know. But could have easily landed us a big piece in return back when he got his extension if he were traded instead of signed.
This is also not to mention how different the Leafs D would look had they kept Sandin and Durzi, just to name two, instead of opting for a D-core that is mostly 31-35 year olds.
Just as an example…at 22.8 AAV…
OEL | Tanev
Sandin | Carlo
Benoit | DurziWith a bit of draft lottery luck, you could also swap out Marner for McDavid @ 12.5 which the Leafs could afford by not having either Joshua or Domi and replacing them with a league minimum contract.
Just sayin…
They might grab a lower or middle tier free agent or two, but bringing in a top tier talent is probably going to involve a trade. Given the Leafs track record with trades and their current relations with other GM’s, I wouldn’t expect to pull off a case of highway robbery, but maybe Tree can get creative with three-way trades, retention, etc.
The Leafs don’t need highway robbery, but they do need to “win” a trade or at least make a solid trade that improves the team.
I’d like to see the following :
1) Marner stays for $11m or $12m. (very very very unlikely)
Marner has the misfortune of having to pay taxes in Canada. That means he will take home significantly less money than his cap hit will suggest he makes. The NHL has no will to change it any time soon either.
Rantanen makes 12 AAV in Dallas which means he actually takes home 7,601,813. For Marner to make the exact same amount, he’d have to have a cap hit of 16.4 AAV to take home 7,664,895. Everybody needs to stop and think about that for a second. That’s how bad the taxes fuck over the Leafs trying to sign players who negotiate based on what they’re taking home. So if Marner is asking for 13 AAV, in reality he is only taking home 6,084,445 for 8 years and a total of 48.6 million dollars. When compared to the 7,601,813 per year Rantanen takes home, it’s actually fair value. The fair compromise for both sides is 13.16 x 8 and Marner is actually taking a discount just nobody is realizing it.
If Utah were to give him 13 AAV, he would take home 7,640,313 per year for 7 years which totals 53.4 million dollars.
In Vegas (an immediate Cup contender), he would take home 8,231,813 for 7 years totals 57.6 million dollars.
Which means, if Utah or Vegas offered him 11 AAV, he’d still make more money, with a lower cap hit, playing for Utah or Vegas than he would for the Leafs at 13 million AAV.This IS NOT a matter of greed. Marner could be leaving anywhere between 5-10 million dollars on the table to play for the Leafs at that price. He’s not negotiating for nickels and dimes in difference.
2) Marner does a sign and trade allowing the Leafs to recoup some assets (again, not very likely).
Marner has taken a 6 year deal before, Matthews took a 4 year deal. I don’t think the extra year matters to Marner if he’s decided to test UFA status because the sooner he can be a UFA again, the better it is for him. If he’s gone, he’s gone. The Leafs get and deserve nothing for their horrible mismanagement.
3) Weaponize the free space if Marner walks, but don’t be stupid with it. Don’t go throwing term at dudes on the wrong side of 30 unless an eventual trip to Robidas Island is part of the plan (ala the Gourde contract). Also, don’t shoot your wad on a guy like Ehlers. Who does this leave? Probably guys like Gavikrov, Beauvillier, Fabro, Tanev, and maybe take a flier on a project like Drouin or Patty Kane if the price is cheap.
The UFA market is not there to be weaponized. The last time the Leafs “weaponized” the UFA market, they got fucked in the ass with Tavares. The UFA market has nothing to offer the Leafs except complimentary pieces. And those complimentary pieces would only help the Leafs if they kept their leading point producer, not to try and replace him. Let’s go one by one through what would be top-six forwards “UFA list” and give you the reasons why the majority on this list are either garbage, not better or won’t sign with the Leafs.
Boeser is horrid. -25 player who deserves his -25. He was a 50 point player last year, only made the playoffs twice in his career. This guy is like a less athletic, Value Village Kessel.
Ehlers, not leaving Winnipeg, soft as baby shit, not a playoff performer, not a 100 point, Selke nominee, PKer. Most of his playoff runs ended with 0 goals. This guy is Value Village Nylander.
Tavares. Is. Garbage. 7 years of his prime, he can’t skate, he can’t defend and he didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games against the Panthers. This guy was the definition of bad DNA. Show him the door.
Duchene. Value Village Tavares. Horrid defensively, can’t score 5v5. Basically a PP weapon who can’t play in any other situation. Cheap but ineffective.
Nelson, very good size, good player staying in Colorado, has no reason to play in Toronto (from Minnesota) unless you massively overpay him. And he’s 33. Not going to be a “prime years” contract. Usually a 50 point player most of his career. 0 playoff goals in 7 games for Colorado this year. ZERO.
Giroux, not leaving Ottawa, hasn’t been a 100 point player in 7 years. Basically another 50 point guy on the wrong side of 37. Hasn’t been a playoff performer since 2012.
Palmieri, off the market. Also, 34 anyway…
Drouin has 1 playoff goal in his last 20 playoff games and he had the benefit of playing with MacKinnon. If he knows what’s good for him, he’ll stay in Colorado and continue being a passenger over there.
Suter, is better than Malgin, I’ll give him that but still, 2 playoff goals in 13 career playoff games? Don’t see this guy moving the needle that much.
Granlund, good player but 32, why would he leave all his Finnish buddies in Dallas after going so deep this year?
Benn is washed, from BC, no reason to come to the Leafs. Probably just stays in Dallas for 1 year, 1 million dollar deals.
Kuzmenko, one year wonder, completely unreliable.
Donato, from Boston, why would he don’t see why he wouldn’t go back to Chicago / Boston unless you overpaid him. 0 playoff goals in 19 playoff games.
Roslovic, from Ohio, don’t see why he’d leave Carolina or come to Toronto unless you overpaid him. 3 career playoff goals in 45 games. Already have enough Jarnkroks and Kampfs. Don’t need another.
Mangiapane, 5’10”, 14 goals, 28 points. This guy can’t replace Marner except if it’s in a police line-up for the height and weight. If he takes a super cheap contract, he’s worth a shot but probably not a legit top-six threat in the playoffs as his career playoff numbers are unimpressive. 7 playoff goals, 14 points in 37 games.
The complimentary players need to be acquired via trade. You can get some of them by exchanging Jarnkrok, Kampf, McMann and Robertson. Between those 4 guys, you can get enough capital to flip for McBain and Jenner, if not directly. Draft picks be damned, the Leafs will trade them all later anyway. Any prospect except Cowan should be available. And even Cowan has a price tag if it lands a big enough fish. He’s too young and too small to be effective in the window of opportunity the Leafs have currently backed themselves into. Robertson was a goal scoring machine in the OHL but has been basically useless in the NHL. Cowan is better than Robertson but suffers from the same issues and will ultimately take longer than 3 years before we get what we need out of him. He should be given a chance but he’s not untouchable either.
4) Jesus Fucking Christ, we gotta do something about Rielly. If he’s coked out, put him in rehab and bury his caphit. If he refuses a trade, then redeploy him as a second pairing guy and go after someone like Provorov. Leafs need another top pair D guy. It won’t come cheap. Maybe use some of the Marner cap space. Also, minor tip here – chatter is that Tampa is cutting bait with Nick Perbix. He’s actually a solid 3rd pair guy who will come cheap. I’d snag him if he leaves Tampa (just for depth).
Agreed on Rielly having to be removed. Leafs absolutely need to drop Rielly off in Vancouver or Seattle. Whether people agree or disagree on Marner staying or going, Rielly must go away as soon as possible. He’s not on cocaine, he just sucks defensively. He has since the day he was drafted. He has enough offensive value you can get some depth pieces in return like a 4C and a 3rd pair D. Enough to be useful for the Leafs but nothing directly the same price or role.
But after he’s gone, they don’t need another top pair D. I think the only option the Leafs have now is to acquire a 3rd pair D for Rielly and sign another depth offensive D for the 3rd pair. At this point, the Leafs are locked into having a bunch of old guys as their D core. If you can have 3 balanced LD/RD who can play 20 min each, the Leafs can just do it by committee.
I would prefer to bring in Brent Burns as the Leafs depth D. He’s from Barrie, he’s 40, he’s got a huge shot for the PP. Maybe he does us a favor and gives us a retirement contract discount. He’s looking to win a Cup on a contender, he spent most of his career in San Jose and Carolina. He might come for the ride with his hometown team at this point.
5) Blockbuster trade that brings in an elite centerman or winger to replace Marner. I’ll hold my breath on this one, but I’m giving Tree a chance here to blow us away with something unforseen and off the board.
Not happening, the Leafs don’t have the assets unless they decide to trade Nylander. In that case, a 2nd line C and a 2nd pair D might help the Leafs and allow them to keep Marner if they move Nylander for the pieces they can’t find as UFAs. At this point, just getting rid of Rielly for depth pieces would be a blockbuster.
I think Berube could make Marner and the “DNA” improve if the right pieces are brought in to compliment him,as Uggie keeps going on about. He’s not wrong about that. But, who is actually available right now? I don’t want to hear Bennett or Marchand. The first is a dirty piece of shit that wouldn’t come to TO unless he’s grossly overpaid, and the other is a bionic geezer piece of shit who is definitely on the wrong side of the aging curve to throw term at.
This is how you change the DNA of a team. Bunch of hometown Tarana boys who play North, South, violent hockey.
Knies @ 7×3 | Matthews | Marner @ 13.16×8
R. Smith @ 4.25×3 | Jenner @ 3.75×1 | Nylander
Domi | McBain @ 3.5×3 | B. Tanev @ 1.75×2 (or Corey Perry)
Laughton | Blueger @ 1.8×1 | Lorentz @ 1×1
Comtois @ 850 (or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns @ 2×1* | Carlo
Benoit*(if he doesn’t retire, hometown guy because he’s from Barrie. Could be the ultimate utility player as both a 7th D and a 13th forward.)
Realistically, having said all of the rambling shit above, unless Matthews goes Super Saiyan next year and puts the team on his back, the Leafs are going to take a step back without Marner.
Marner’s absence will significantly hurt Matthews (as if he wasn’t bad enough in the playoffs). The stats clearly show, the Leafs can win without Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Rielly. But their record without Marner is significantly worse. Matthews will struggle to reach 60+ goals. Might be a challenge to reach 50 again if Domi is the guy they put up at RW. Nylander doesn’t work with Matthews because they’re both at their best when they shoot first.
The only guy you can bring in to temporarily replace maybe 50-60% of what Marner can do offensively is Patrick Kane. But he’s 37, often injured and hasn’t been effective in the playoffs since 2015. So even Patrick Kane replacing Marner is a big stretch. You also have to bring in Rielly Smith to replace Marner’s defensive responsibilities, especially on the PK. But again, he’s also 34. The Leafs are trying to piece together one 100 point, Selke nominee, 28 year old with two guys on the wrong side of 30. It will look good on paper but the game is played on ice.
The Leafs are not as good as Florida and Edmonton and you are absolutely correct about first two games.
Taking Panthers to game seven should not fool anyone.The Leafs took the Panthers to Game 7, you can’t take that away from them. It wasn’t pretty but nobody else gave them a better challenge. This Leafs team was and is still flawed. But it’s closer than anybody else. And to throw that away instead of build upon it would be stupid. All it would take is for Bob to act his age at 37 or fatigue from 3 long Cup runs or a major injury, and this Leafs team, with the correct improvements (remove Tavares, Rielly, Jarnkrok, Kampf etc.) and they can go further than they ever have before.
This Edmonton team would still be choking like the Leafs if it wasn’t for their head coach. Granted, Kris Knoblauch has the benefit of having the best player on the planet on his team but the way the whole team plays as a relentless unit behind him, with a bunch of no-name players for the most part lower in the line-up, really shaky blueline and a shoddy Skinner (whom he pulled and only put back in because Pickard got injured), is a wonder to watch. They’re up 1-0 early in the series so far and who knows if they will win the Cup but Kris Knoblauch deserves some major credit for the massive turn around this team has had since he took over. Full credit to him win or lose.
Bennett gets away with everything. And of course Marchand scores on the PP that shouldn’t have happened.
You know that if he and Marchand, by some miracle, played for the Leafs, all the shit they get away with would instantly be called every single time.
I think back to Game 3, Leafs had a PP and Marner got hit very late. Nothing. No call. No 5 on 3.
With the way Bennett and Marchand play, they’d get run out of town like Kadri after enough penalties / suspensions.
Uggle Buggle, you let JT walk, now you need a 2C.
Agreed. Would rather trade for Jenner and/or McBain. At least that way you can guarantee you have a gritty, rough, tough player in his prime, under 5 million who can actually play in all 3 zones. You also sign Rielly Smith who is a playoff performer and actual two-way winger. In that scenario, Nylander can be a defensive lazy fuck and still get away with it. In other scenarios, where Tavares and Nylander are still playing together, they are minus and you lose the series like they did against Florida.
You now have to move Kampf and find a taker for him, and probably have to eat cap to do that and add a sweetener;
Not true. Salary cap floor is 70 million this year. There are A LOT of teams that would happily take a plug just to fill salary and a roster spot. Same goes for Jarnkrok. Both Kampf and Jarnkrok are NHL players. They can both fill a spot on a team fighting for the playoffs and score 10-15 goals and eat up 15 min a game. They just can’t be on a team that hopes to win a Stanley Cup. Teams like Columbus or Utah would happily take these guys.
Rielly has a full NMC and very likely is going to say no to any trade except maybe Vancouver, and we’ll have to eat salary as well to do that, or take a cap dump in return.
Vancouver or Seattle. Blueger and Tyler Myers from Vancouver. Or Oleksiak and Tye Kartye from Seattle. Done deal. Next.
If salary retention is a must, I refer to my previous point that the cap floor is 70 million. There’s plenty of teams that would facilitate retaining salary to reach the cap floor. 3-way deals happen every year to reduce salary. Nothing new or complicated about it.
Team upgraded, full of tough, two-way, North-South, Toronto boys with slight hometown discount bargains.
Knies @ 7×3 | Matthews | Marner @ 13.16×8
R. Smith @ 4.25×3 | Jenner @ 3.75×1 | Nylander
Domi | McBain @ 3.5×3 | B. Tanev @ 1.75×2 (or Corey Perry)
Laughton | Blueger @ 1.8×1 | Lorentz @ 1×1
Comtois @ 850 (or Pacioretty if he doesn’t retire)OEL | Tanev
McCabe | T. Myers
Burns @ 2×1* | Carlo
Benoit*(if he doesn’t retire, hometown guy because he’s from Barrie. Could be the ultimate utility player as both a 7th D and a 13th forward.)
Woll | Stolarz
Marner is very likely walking anyways, so are you just armchair GM circle-jerking like usual, or do you want to actually talk about realistic moves?
And the Leafs are very likely never winning a Stanley Cup with retards running this team. But you’re still going to circle jerk yourself while you watch them.
You want realistic? Realistic is Marner is walking because management is inept, Bennett and Marchand are staying in Florida and the Leafs are absolutely fucked. There’s your reality.
I know that’s difficult for you, the air is foul in your mom’s basement what with her corpse rotting in the next room.
Personal attacks because you can’t deal with the actual argument. Nothing new but just as pathetic.
I was talking about Tkachuk this year, against us.
So Tkachuk is allowed to score 0 goals but he’s still considered a playoff God but Marner, scores a GWG, primary assist on another GWG and he should be let go for NOTHING in return? Excellent logic.
Moving JT and Rielly doesn’t really change the DNA of the team at all
It absolutely does. For starters, it saves you 12.5 million in cap space to get rid of the FORMER captain and longest serving Leafs defender (who can’t defend). Secondly, it removes the two worst defensive players on the team who cost you important games. Thirdly, it allows you to spend money on the “depth” you are so desperate to sign via free agents.
and if the 2nd line was getting caved in before, how is it not going to get caved in again with a bargain bin 2C, whoever that is going to be for the pocket lint we have leftover if Marner stays.
Add to the list of garbage players, Kampf, Jarnkrok, Robertson and McMann and you have the opportunity to make trades. Those trades, if done shrewdly with the correct teams and left over draft picks (Leafs won’t do jack shit with them anyway but trade them away later) and you can bring in what you need: Jenner and McBain. Two solid two-way centers that will both make between 3-4 AAV each.
Uggie keeps going on and on about the top line, and yeah, they were evens, but THE REASON WHY THE OTHER LINES SUCKED IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING MONEY TO SPEND ON THEM.
And that money was wasted on Tavares, Rielly, Kampf and Jarnkrok. Cap goes up 7 million. Rielly makes 7.5. Tavares wants a “discount” 5. Kampf and Jarnkrok also make about 5 combined.
That’s a lot of money spent on a lot of garbage players who actively lost you more games than they helped win vs. Florida.
Rough math says that’s 24.5 million to spend on whatever depth you can find, not to mention what you can get back in return for trades.
Go look at successful teams: they spend more than a 50% Groupon coupon for their 3rd lines.
Go look at teams who have left 100 point players LEAVE FOR NOTHING and see how well they recovered after taking that money and spending it on spare parts and leftovers.
No matter how much you people want to beat the drums of “saving 13.5 AAV to spend on better playoff warriors” you can’t name the players that will actually want to play in Toronto without being grossly overpaid. If it took the 2nd highest salary in the NHL to get Tavares to sign in Toronto only to waste 7 years of our cap space with futility, just imagine how much they’d have to overpay Bennett and Marchand to leave better weather, lower taxes, a better team and zero pressure.
Tavares was on for one more EVGA than Marner. JT was -3 and Marner was -1; Marner wants $13.5m and JT is in the realm of $5m.
Again, you should know better the level of competition Marner was tasked with. Florida’s top line was mostly kept in check with Marner and Matthews on the ice against them. Had that been Tavares, he would have probably been -10. Marner also scored 13 playoff points to Tavares’ 7. Marner had a GWG and a primary assist on a GWG against Florida. He’s 28. Tavares is 34 going on 35. That difference in money being spent is warranted because Marner is entering his prime while Tavares is entering his wheelchair years which means whatever money you “save” is spent on making sure he’s less of a liability. Was Tavares 7th in Selke voting? No, he wasn’t. He never has been. He never will be. Does Tavares kill penalties? No, he doesn’t. This idea of savings is basically admitting you want inferior players on the team as long as it saves you money to pay for more inferior players.
Here’s the thing – there’s not a single Leaf fan that wasn’t secretly hoping that Mitch Marner would finally – FINALLY – show up in the playoffs and be THE guy. Take charge. Own the ice. Own some shifts single-handedly – because at the amount he wants to paid, he should. And yeah, just ‘cos you might be thinking it – we have seen Matthews do it in the playoffs – like last year against Boston, before McAvoy pitch-forked his head into the ice giving him a concussion. But we didn’t and still haven’t seen Marner strap the team to his back when they need it.
He won games. He had more playoff points than Matthews. Led the team in scoring even without a 100% Matthews. Marner did show up and did his part. He’s not McDavid, no but he’s not the problem here as it’s been proven time and time again. And losing him for nothing won’t make things better either. Clearly, this will not be addition by subtraction. This is a straight subtraction of talent.
We haven’t seen that from any of them at crucial times. Matthews get a pass this year due to injury. Tavares gets a pass due to age and his new contract demands. I don’t expect my $5m guy to do that. Nylander doesn’t get a pass. He vanished and sucked – and was the passenger – at the end of the Florida series. At this point I’m resigned to the facts that Marner wants to leave, Nylander doesn’t – so all the pretend fabrications of moving one guy and keeping the other – just so you can VASTLY overpay someone is just plain mismanagement.
What’s Matthews’ excuse all the other years he didn’t show up? He was busy shitting his pants last year too, right? I wonder what excuse he will have next playoffs without an elite passer feeding him the puck all year and on the PP.
Rielly gets a pass too? How many passes does he get? Or does he give them away like he does on the ice?
You are correct, Nylander disappeared from Game 4-7. If Marner walks it’s because they pushed him out the door while making excuses for everybody else. Why? Because they need him to take a discount while they overpay everybody else? Because they need cap space to sign more defensively dog shit passengers?
Will we miss Marner? At times, yes. But not likely in the playoffs.
Factually incorrect. Which is rare for you. He directly helped win 2 of the 3 games they won against Florida. More career playoff points than Matthews, Nylander and Tavares. When Florida puts the band back together, the Leafs will not have Marner, Bennett, Marchand or anybody else that will make that kind of positive difference. Florida will mop the floor with them again as losing your best players for nothing has consequences of losing in the playoffs. And Marner will win, just like Kadri, somewhere else.
Oh so Berube saying he wants JT back 100% is really untrue but we are supposed to believe he loves every single part of Marner’s game top to bottom and when he said 100% THAT TIME he meant it but not the other time? lol Really?
Berube wants JT the person back. If he wants the player back, he’s an idiot. The stats don’t lie. Tavares was one of the biggest reasons they lost to Florida. Clear as day. He didn’t score in 6 out of 7 games and he was on the ice for the most EVGA. That is a garbage loser player at 34 years old who will not be getting better as he marches toward 40.
If you are saying JT shouldn’t be back because he’s ‘a loser’ you have to acknowledge the same lack of success Marner has had at the NHL playoff level don’t you?
Wrong again. JT has been through his prime. And yet Marner still has more career playoff points despite being 6/7 years younger. Marner hasn’t gone through his prime yet. Marner has the opportunity to show he’s better than what he has been. JT will only get worse from here.
JT is slow, Marner is soft, JT was shitty offensively vs Florida, Marner was a VERY far cry from the 100 point player he was all season.
Marner isn’t horrid in the defensive zone and clearly outscored Tavares. Still a PPG player even if it wasn’t his 100 point pace. Tavares became a 50 point pace and a minus player. With the easier match-up.
Marner had 1 goal in the entire series, went pointless in games 5 and 7 and was a -2 in both games and got a gravy assist on a shovel pass in game 6. If you want to talk about JT not performing in Florida that’s fine and true but let’s also acknowledge that Marner was not good either. Marner had 1 point in the last 4 games of the series, a series in which THEY BOTH sucked offensively.
Marner had a GAME WINNING GOAL. I’ll take the GWG over the 2 goals in a losing effort. Again, Tavares had 0 points in 6 out of 7 games. He sucked the bag the entire series except one game. That “1 point” was a primary assist on a GWG. So, again, Marner helped win TWO of the THREE games they beat Florida. How many did Tavares help win? NONE. Wake the fuck up to reality.
You undervalue JT to a drastic degree for whatever reason – you can hate him that’s fine but pretending he only brings the value that a Corey Perry does to a team is just so far from the truth. JT on the open market would get 4 to 4 M from many teams – he’s not a 1M player.
Undervalue? Tavares is a career loser. He’s never won a fucking thing in his NHL career. Not one award. Not one trophy. Not one Cup. Nothing. And he is past his prime. Considering him like Perry is still overvaluing what he brings because at least Perry was a winner. Tavares “came home” to be the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL and did what? Dick on a stick.
Tavares is only useful as a 1 million dollar player because his defense is so bad you need to spend another 5 million to help him break even. If some idiot team wants to give him more money, go ahead. Take him. Enjoy losing in the playoffs as Tavares has done his entire fucking career.
If you want to talk about saving money to create a more balanced roster the move is obvious and likely the one that will happen, (much to your obvious displeasure) and Marner will walk and the Leafs will have 13M or more of cap space to use on creating that balance. The concept that they have to spend money to support JT or what you claim are his weaknesses is fine, Mitch Marner alone can’t bring success to this team so they would or will have to spend money to make that happen to overcome the things missing in his game (size, toughness to start) as well as a sniper to finish his passes. If you want to go down that path then you can say some of what the Leafs pay Matthews is for that exact reason.
13 million in cap space and you still can’t name who is actually going to come to Toronto to be better than keeping Marner. Going to spend it on another garbage UFA like Tavares? Bennett and Marchand are staying right where they are (for good reason) and the Leafs will be left with scraps that will fair no better.
Finally as far as ‘when’ Tre and Berube look at the tapes to try and figure out why they lost – you seriously don’t think they have done that already and Berube is saying he 100% wants JT back and will suddenly change his mind when he finally does so? You can’t possibly be serious on this.
If this team brings back Tavares and Rielly and let’s Marner walk for nothing, enjoy the playoff failures while Marner wins a Cup like Kadri did. They’ll be well earned.
The 2026 UFA crop is much bigger than 97
Makar – No chance. Staying in Colorado on a mega deal. That’s why they got rid of Rantanen. They knew they needed the space to keep Makar. He’s from Calgary so, they might have a 5% chance.
Eichel – No chance. No reason to come to the Leafs. Staying in Vegas. More likely to go “home” to Boston than the Leafs.
Kaprizov – No chance. Minnesota is dead in the water without him. We already have one Nylander anyway.
Connor – No chance. Winnipeg is screwed without Connor. More likely to go “home” to Detroit than the Leafs.
Bobrovsky – No chance. Florida until he retires. Why would he ever consider leaving at 38+?
Panarin – No chance. 34+, why would you want him with his best years behind him?
Jenner – 50/50 chance. Better off getting him in a trade than letting him hit the market where he could get offered more like ROR in Nashville.
Lowry – No chance. Winnipeg captain, they’ll resign him.
OV – No chance. He’s 40, Capital for life. He has said he would like to play like a crazy market like Toronto or Montreal but at 40+, how much is he going to have left in the tank?
Trouba – No chance. More likely to go to go “home” to Detroit than the Leafs.
Carlson – No chance. 35+. Why would he leave Washington at this point? More likely to go “home” to Boston than the Leafs.
Laine – LOL
Kopitar – No chance, going to retire a King.
Kempe – No chance, Kings keep him 100%.
Demko – Leafs already have Woll, doubt he wants to be a back-up.
Stolarz – 50/50 chance he stays, depends if he becomes the “starter” or if he keeps getting injured.The rest of these guys aren’t needle movers. Bunch of depth guys…none of them make the Leafs an overnight contender.
Tuch
Oleksiak
Rasmoose
Marchment
Ferraro
Mikkola
SissonsAny many more……
The Leafs put themselves in this mess with UFA mistakes (Tavares). They won’t cure their disease with another dose of the disease.
