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Zegras has proven it several years ago. Needs to get back to that. Can he? Can he do it playing center or wing? If he cant cut it at center how does that change things with the other wingers?
what Dvorak has done in the past does not matter. It is just that the past. Go off the recent season and the 1 before that as it is more relevant don’t you think? Of course you don’t. Dvorak had a solid season last year. Adding him to the flyers really does next to nothing; he is a guy a team close adds for depth. A case of once again the coach calling the shots instead of the GM.
Why not spend to the cap? Do you really need that answered? You’re like the flyers no long term thought process.
Zegras did get back to that late last season. Why does the past not matter for Dvorak, or even Zegras when he finished strong last year, but does for the Flyers? You seem to be cherry picking. Poehling was getting 3C ice time the last two seasons which obviously helped his scoring. I’m heartened to know you think winning faceoffs and being responsible in your own end is next to nothing. The long term thinking on the cap is dead space goes away, expiring contracts go away and the cap bumps next season. The Flyers will have plenty of cap space next summer. This is basic math stuff.
Defense and goaltending are long-term questions. Outside of Bonk possibly being a middle-pairing defenseman, what else of quality is currently in the system? And as I alluded to in a previous post, Flyers goaltending prospects have mostly been disappointing for the past 3 1/2 decades.
For whatever reasons, history shows the Flyers have had problems developing top-tier defensemen and goaltenders.
I think those questions will get answered pretty quickly. If the team D, goalies included, doesn’t get better they’re in for another bad season. I frankly don’t think it can get any worse. They still have Dmen and at least a couple two-way forwards they can build around. You’re overestimating the importance of having originally drafted Dmen for good teams. Spent some time on this, and the majority of Dmen on top teams are usually acquired as already developed, plug and play pros.
Health is not the only concern. He has been used on the wing. Whether he can convert back to center and be effective is a concern. He must show he is an improvement at the center spot over frost. I am sure tocchet is playing the long game and no worries when it comes to zegras.
Zegras has a higher PPG ( as a winger) over frost. That is an improvement. Dvorak has a lower PPG than Poehlig that is also an improvement, makes sense. Talk about laughable.
Why should they have spent to the cap this season? What does it accomplish as they are gig nowhere fast. Would have been better to have that extra 5 million space to start the season. Being a bottom feeder with no cap space is a joke.
Frost is better on faceoffs. Frost has also had injury issues that checked his progress. Zegras generates a lot more offense. He’s proven it over multiple seasons. Poehling’s only double digit goal seasons were his last two here. Dvorak has seven, basically every full season he’s had in the league, excluding two where he played a combined 50 games. Poehling has never scored 15 or more goals in a season. Dvorak has done it four times. Why spend to the cap with short term deals, when you have about $7M in dead cap space coming back and the cap will go way up for 26-27? Why not?
No. I clearly told you my definition of hard to play against and you substituted your own. You want the broad street bullies? Well you may get them but it’s not the 1970’s anymore. Stanley Cup winners generally have certain things in common. The Flyers have none of those things, nor do they even try beyond some lip service.
Your definition is not the generally accepted definition. Yeah, a hard to play against team is a big team that has mean players who hit people, they’re willing to get nasty in the trenches. What was the last Cup champ that didn’t have that, that built their team around small, skilled guys who get pushed around like shopping carts? The Flyers do have enough legitimate short term questions on D and in goal. The fact they aren’t building in your preferred fashion is of no consequence to me. They’re building in my preferred fashion.
There is nobody who thinks the Flyers, a bottom feeder, are hard to play against.
Exactly, which is why I’m happy to see the Flyers address that issue, getting bigger and tougher, and others as well. You’re arguing in a circle. The guys you said they should have drafted don’t address that issue better than the players they did draft.
Again, who gives a shit about the last couple months. Means nothing. No he isn’t a clear upgrade over frost his last 2 seasons. Let that sink in.
Dvorak is a laughton replacement. Inconsequential. On a cost/point basis Dvorak isn’t an upgrade over Poehlig. Poehlig had a better ppg. Where is this clear upgrade?
It is not 100% both play center. I bet they both do not. acquiring those 2 proves the flyers are not incompetent. love flyers fans.
It’s a strong indicator of top form, out of camp, for Zegras who still has an upside. Health is the only concern. Your claim he isn’t an upgrade over Frost is laughable. The last two seasons, at his injury riddled worst, Zegras put up 88 games 47 points .534 ppg. Frost put up
152 games 78 points .513 ppg. They’re only committed to Dvorak’s overpayment for one year. He won a lottery ticket as a UFA and the Flyers may as well as have spent to the cap this year. I still regret they weren’t able to get a better, and yes, more expensive Dman than Noah Juulsen and maybe spent less on the slot they filled with Dvorak. He’ still an upgrade over Peohling.The question was fundamentals and mistakes. If Tippett doesn’t bounce back this year that contract is an anchor and that is a very bad thing. Does anyone think he is anything other than a one dimensional player? RR is still a flyer. They badly whiffed on evaluating Drysdale (and admitted it eventually) and time will tell but they probably set the team back several years in not drafting Buium who was and is currently predicted to be a #1 dman. One of the cornerstones the Flyers never seem to find but often lament. Also Bonk over Perrault, etc. Maybe the Flyers will ultimately prove to be the smartest guys in the room and not just some guy who took a night course but i have a bridge to sell you if you think that.
Downgrades? No place to go but up with the coaching staff and organizational philosophy but do you trust the color commentator and DB to know which direction is up? Tocchet is in theory a big upgrade but his winning % is something like .488 when he doesn’t have that alpha goalie (hint : the Flyers do not have that alpha goalie) and once again, they decided to take on the bad optics of hiring yet another exflyer. At least the AHL coach is an actual coach and not just an out of work exflyer enforcer.
So your main gripe is the Flyers could have drafted better, not that they didn’t get players. Luchanko and Bonk appear to be future solid players even if they weren’t the best players available. Buium and Perrault are smallish. I’ll take my chances with Bonk and Luchanko and building a harder to play against team. Most of your complaints seem to be hypothetical, about a future that hasn’t happened. None of them, some of them, most of them or all of them could pan out. I have my own too. We seem to agree on the Drysdale problem. There’s so much negativity here, it tends to distract me from my own gripes and concerns.
24th on goals, 28th GAA, 29th differential, PP 30th, PK% 20th, s/gp 28th, sv% 32nd. They lost 500 SOG last year from the previous year.
The Flyers were not a good puck possession team last year. Their metrics show they deserve to be a bottom feeder team. The best thing you can say about them is that their historically bad PP (and they are in the record books for being the worst in the league for 3 years straight) is no longer the worst, just god awful. The fundamentals you speak of, don’t exist. It’s the dreaded “eye test” i guess.
A real GM would’ve fired Rocky. There was literally nobody worse in the league and he was untouchable. Hell Torts was only let go after Torts crossed the line with York and then told the world that he had no interest in coaching another game for the team. Even then DB lamented how much he wanted Torts back.
Briere made many many mistakes from the Gauthier debacle (regardless of how people feel about CB, the Flyers were bush league in how they demonized the kid). To the Flyers not realizing the difference between man-to-man defense vs zone when they evaluated/traded for Drysdale. To allowing Torts to dictate that the Phantoms can do whatever the hell they want system wise because he dgaf. Bribing Fedotov to come over with a large NHL contract, Kolosov handling, goalie handling in general.
The mistakes are legion and that’s just a few. Last season was a poopshow from start to finish but DB didn’t do much until Torts forced his hand publicly. How many other teams in the NHL intentionally start the season shorthanded on defense? Others have mentioned more. We’d be here all day if we listed everything.
It’s not like I think Briere has been mistake free. Gauthier, seems like they overpaid and overcommitted to Tippett, the late season nonsense with Torts. At least you’re naming them and I added one myself. You can’t redo Gauthier, overpaying a guy who has proven he can play isn’t the worst thing in the world and Torts and Thompson are gone . . . replaced with what looks to me like upgrades. Where are the downgrades?
Back-to-back years of low production, no matter the reason, is taking a chance. Morgan Frost was very good the last 2 months of the flyers season. Who cares as means jack shit when next season starts.
They wanted to keep walker, why don’t you factor that into the equation. Jesus Christ. Mind boggling how peeps defend this team. Walker left them no choice but to be traded
Farabee had value in the 1st 3 months of the 23/24 season. The concept of selling high is something the flyers don’t seem to get. It is ok to say danny boy missed the boat. How were they rebuilding moves? Both those moves were driven by the coach/gm at the time. He wanted them gone. They didn’t trade them by design or some great master plan. Same with walker.
Zegras played up to his earlier standards the last couple months. Frost was never a 0.7-0.75 PPG and never will be. Zegras was playing up to that standard. He’s a clear upgrade over Frost and Dvorak is an upgrade over Poehling. The Flyers upgraded half their center position in one trade deadline and off season. How is that terrible and sign of inherent Flyers incompetence?
What young player? Really, zegras.
They have made one trade you can classify as a rebuilding move, that is the laughton trade.
Frost/farabee should have 100% been moved much earlier. When they had real value. That is a failure on the GM. As you said given away.
Just nothing but excuses for briere. What parallels do you see?
I don’t see the Flyers as taking a chance on Zegras. Maybe health wise, but he’s a legit Top 6 forward who was very good the last two months of last season. The Walker trade at the 23-24 deadline fits. They drafted Nesbitt with that plus another pick. Frost has some value, not so sure about Farabee . . . but that was a rebuilding move too. How wasn’t it?
The proposed Krug deal is yet another reminder of the Flyers Front Office giving the appearance they’re not really doing their homework. How many injured players have they traded for/tried to trade for in the past 5 seasons? It’s a recurring theme at this point, and yet another reason they Flyers do not get (nor do they deserve) the benefit of the doubt from me.
Out of curiosity, what are these “fundamental things being done right?”
The trade deadline deals have been good. Got them picks they’ve turned into young, bigger tougher to play against forwards through the draft. The Flyers haven’t, overall, been a tough team to play against. They’re addressing the obvious needs at center with deals that brought in Zegras and Dvorak.
Yes, it is not last year. They have done very little to improve upon that to me. Took a chance on a young player who has upside. That is it.
To have to go back that long to see an actual hockey trade involving a good young prospect is interesting.
Here is where we disagree. There really was never any rebuild. There is no valid argument to show otherwise.
I don’t want to be entertained. I want them to build a perennial contender. Which they are not doing. Finishing 8th worst in the league but being “entertaining” doesn’t cut it.
Sad thing is I am more entertained these days watching them lose and continue to spin on the hamster wheel. This is what they have turned me into!!!
Took a chance on which young player? They haven’t been in a position to put a package together for a “needle mover.” The proof that they’re doing a rebuild is the trade deadline deals they’ve made the last two seasons, dumping current talent for the future, or in the Frost/Farabee deals, opening up cap space and roster slots. Those two were literally given away. When was the last time the Flyers made a trade like that? The Flyers haven’t done any kind of rebuild since Homer in 06-07. No question, he got a lot knocked out with one deadline and one UFA season. The dominoes didn’t fall right for Briere to be able to do that. It will be a multiple season process and we’re going into Year 3. I see parallels to 06-07 though, that’s part of why I’m interested in watching how it pans out closely.
as a team they were the 4th worst in the league.
Doesn’t matter where they ranked in that stat. that was not a good defensive group. Won’t be this year as well.
It is nonsense in how you go about looking at it on the surface. The flyers have shown no ability to get it done. Could, would, should, and if. The flyers mantra. How have they drafted their way to a decent group of dman? Most are years away if they even pan out.
As far as trading young guys, when was the last time a legit prospect was traded in a hockey trade to improve the team? They wont trade “their” guys unless they get very desperate. Which may very well happen at some point.
Bottom line was they were bad last year but it’s not last year anymore. The last several years, the Flyers haven’t had enough of a surplus to package one of their top prospects for a “needle mover” and they were clearly too bad to make such a deal anyway. Sbisa in the package that got them Pronger was the last time off the top of my head. It’s been a rebuild and they still have holes on the NHL roster. When they added Torts as coach, that was a sign to me to check out on following them at all. It was only last year I started looking again and didn’t like most of what I saw but saw enough I did like and liked their off season. Hopefully, they entertain this year.
The defense was a big issue last year. It isn’t very good and got off the hook so to speak because the goaltending was so bad. Part of the goaltending being bad was the defense. Who can step up on the D? York and JD maybe? The rest are what they are at thus point.
Ollie lysell was pretty much a ppg player. What about Samu? They won’t get you anything. Let’s say bump gets close to a ppg, you think they will include him in a trade package? The flyers “love” their guys and until they do, they refuse to move them. When was the last time a legit prospect was moved in a hockey trade?
Please stop with the 2 teams in the finals only had 3 draft picks nonsense. This is all the propaganda they flyers spew and want peeps like you to hang onto. Take a deeper dive into why that is the case and not a surface one. Won’t happen by opening night, wont happen for years if at all.
As a team, the Flyers were 8th in the league in fewest shots allowed. That’s the best team stat I can find on them from last year and it’s something they want to maintain. Quality chances are a different story, of course. I wouldn’t call Lycksell a young player. He’s 25 and has a few pro seasons here and in Sweden. He is what he is at this point plus he’s small. I’m talking about a player younger than that with at most a couple of pro seasons in that production range, guys who are doing that now and have upside. How the defense corps of top teams actually do get built is hardly nonsense. The Flyers do need more D prospects. Maybe Amico can be a depth guy for them, if he stays healthy. A couple other names get tossed around. They could prove to be adequate depth guys but with Sanheim, York and, soon enough, Bonk, have drafted their way to a decent group of Dmen.
They are the gold standard. team is in pretty much the same spot since boy wonder took over.
Sarcasm Monday! Hahahaha! They dodged a bullet when Krug nixed the Sanheim deal. They’d be even worse if that went down. Not sure what the thinking was. Aside from that, things haven’t been flashy, not like the bold strikes Holmgren made even when he took over as GM mid-season 06-07. That turnaround was astonishing, they were in the finals in three years. That’s clearly not happening here but I do see some fundamental things being done right.
